AXE 09
Smash Master
Meh. I actually see the matchup as pretty even. They both have good stuff on each other lol
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Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!
- Thread starter N64
- Start date
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- Apr 21, 2010
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short answer is - pika beats falcon's *** 
serious response if you're honest about the question:
in this matchup you're both going for grabs. for pika he wants to uthrow cg/bthrow>gimp, for cf he wants to dthrow>punish. against pika it's easiest to grab him by forcing him into shield or catching him running away (speed advantage). you can try spacing pika to whiff and punish with grab but you should remember that pika's landing lag out of nair is really low - punish fast or you'll get uair'd.
avoiding pika's grab is kind of difficult since it's his #1 priority - you'd have to have the mindset of playing vs ICs almost (minus the possibility of huge wd boost approach). always remember that pika's favorite punishes are grab and usmash, and dsmash/jab in tight windows of opportunity.
another one of cf's goals is to put pika in the air since he's in a worse position above characters, so you can consider stuff like throwing pika onto platforms and establishing control on the main stage. once pika's above you he's pretty helpless against uairs/other stuff from below him in general. watch out for stuff like shielddrop uair though.
when shffling against pika remember his run animation makes him low to the floor - this makes uair/1st hit nair approaches hard to land so consider your other aerial options against dashing/dd'ing. ideas include late nair (2nd hit, or low&late 1st hit), dair if you're confident, non-ff'd fair (lots of players get caught by soft knee), defensive/pivot bair, etc.
falcon dthrow usually reduces pika to 3 options. 1 - bad/no di (leads to being regrabbed/knee'd/etc) so this won't happen often except for maybe the 1st throw. 2 - down/away di + tech (leads to techchase) pika's techroll is slow so he'll almost always tech in place. This is the most common di option and you should almost always expect this in reaction to getting cg'd. 3 - up/in di (leads into an action, usually jump, before getting grabbed again) starting around %50? idk. either way, dthrow can almost always be combo'd into a knee finisher at higher %'s.
pika doesn't have many approach mixups. primary approach is nair obviously which is really easy to avoid with falcon's speed (so don't get cornered). the main ways pika can mixup his nair is air speed, fastfall timing, and aerial timing (when he hits a) and these work well because the nair arc typically goes really far and the mixups allow for big shifts in spacing/timing, not to mention it sticks out FOREVER. however, he's 99% of the time going for nair crossup, which will then most of the times lead to rising uair, which occasionally leads to to falling nair (to hit you if you try to punish oos after uair). if he crossup nairs your shield be prepared to avoid/punish his uair...he may go for a mixup though.
one approach mixup is that pikas like to poke with dtilt (think marth but shorter/much weaker) and typically do a running nair OR grab right after it, so keep that in mind when you get dtilt'd. other mixups include the typical mixups that most characters have (shield/sh waveland/wd/etc.).
watch out for uair oos...when you crossup against his shield make sure you're spaced so that it won't hit you.
on edgeguarding - think sheik, just refresh/hog and punish recovery on stage. usually you can opt for an on-stage ko though.
in tournament...ban fd.
honestly it's a very even matchup overall, usually depends on who's better at the neutral game since they punish each other super hard. falcon has the edge in movement though.
serious response if you're honest about the question:
in this matchup you're both going for grabs. for pika he wants to uthrow cg/bthrow>gimp, for cf he wants to dthrow>punish. against pika it's easiest to grab him by forcing him into shield or catching him running away (speed advantage). you can try spacing pika to whiff and punish with grab but you should remember that pika's landing lag out of nair is really low - punish fast or you'll get uair'd.
avoiding pika's grab is kind of difficult since it's his #1 priority - you'd have to have the mindset of playing vs ICs almost (minus the possibility of huge wd boost approach). always remember that pika's favorite punishes are grab and usmash, and dsmash/jab in tight windows of opportunity.
another one of cf's goals is to put pika in the air since he's in a worse position above characters, so you can consider stuff like throwing pika onto platforms and establishing control on the main stage. once pika's above you he's pretty helpless against uairs/other stuff from below him in general. watch out for stuff like shielddrop uair though.
when shffling against pika remember his run animation makes him low to the floor - this makes uair/1st hit nair approaches hard to land so consider your other aerial options against dashing/dd'ing. ideas include late nair (2nd hit, or low&late 1st hit), dair if you're confident, non-ff'd fair (lots of players get caught by soft knee), defensive/pivot bair, etc.
falcon dthrow usually reduces pika to 3 options. 1 - bad/no di (leads to being regrabbed/knee'd/etc) so this won't happen often except for maybe the 1st throw. 2 - down/away di + tech (leads to techchase) pika's techroll is slow so he'll almost always tech in place. This is the most common di option and you should almost always expect this in reaction to getting cg'd. 3 - up/in di (leads into an action, usually jump, before getting grabbed again) starting around %50? idk. either way, dthrow can almost always be combo'd into a knee finisher at higher %'s.
pika doesn't have many approach mixups. primary approach is nair obviously which is really easy to avoid with falcon's speed (so don't get cornered). the main ways pika can mixup his nair is air speed, fastfall timing, and aerial timing (when he hits a) and these work well because the nair arc typically goes really far and the mixups allow for big shifts in spacing/timing, not to mention it sticks out FOREVER. however, he's 99% of the time going for nair crossup, which will then most of the times lead to rising uair, which occasionally leads to to falling nair (to hit you if you try to punish oos after uair). if he crossup nairs your shield be prepared to avoid/punish his uair...he may go for a mixup though.
one approach mixup is that pikas like to poke with dtilt (think marth but shorter/much weaker) and typically do a running nair OR grab right after it, so keep that in mind when you get dtilt'd. other mixups include the typical mixups that most characters have (shield/sh waveland/wd/etc.).
watch out for uair oos...when you crossup against his shield make sure you're spaced so that it won't hit you.
on edgeguarding - think sheik, just refresh/hog and punish recovery on stage. usually you can opt for an on-stage ko though.
in tournament...ban fd.
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Pika vs Falcon is an incredibly fun MU
all the dash-jump nairs!
all the dash-jump nairs!
and chain-grabs >_<
Shadocat
Smash Ace
when i played that MU, i got kneed and died.............then it happened 3 more times....... i think i got like one stock off of him
D. Disciple
Smash Master
Don't attack if he's running away from you. Fake that **** out!
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
Played some Pikachu recently. I love his tech chase against spacies.
Spyro
Smash Ace
I love comboing spacies. Lots of fun.
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
What's Pika's answer to shine pressure? When I play Samus I just upB oos. What options does Pika have?
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- Apr 21, 2010
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first observe for pressure holes
fullhop(?)/uair/nair oos
wd oos is my favorite option
usmash oos? maybe
roll (usually bad...but if they don't punish it then lolol)
vs fox, get hit by shine and tech? lol
if you know when the shinegrab is coming you can usually buffer a roll/jump out of the shine
fullhop(?)/uair/nair oos
wd oos is my favorite option
usmash oos? maybe
roll (usually bad...but if they don't punish it then lolol)
vs fox, get hit by shine and tech? lol
if you know when the shinegrab is coming you can usually buffer a roll/jump out of the shine
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
uair oos is crucial
Space animals should always be scared of your uair.
Space animals should always be scared of your uair.
N64
Smash Champion
Pika's main answer to shine pressure is to avoid shine pressure to begin with. He's fast, he's smallish, and has a few options to keep fox out.
If he does end up in his shield, though, uair oos is indeed pretty good. Usmash oos can also be an option. Neither are foolproof though (I generally just roll away if I think he's trying to bait me to come out of my shield with something).
If he does end up in his shield, though, uair oos is indeed pretty good. Usmash oos can also be an option. Neither are foolproof though (I generally just roll away if I think he's trying to bait me to come out of my shield with something).
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rolling out of pressure is actually really good if they're not looking for it, just don't do it too often. if they explicitly stop pressure and wait for a reaction...don't roll since pika's roll is slow and one of the easier-to-react-to options. rolling out of pressure is also a lot safer at certain %'s where you aren't as easily comboed/ko'd.
i dedicate my 500th post to umcp which is now devoid of any smashtivity
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jeff
how the **** are you so good
i wish i could get top 8 w/ donkey okng
how the **** are you so good
i wish i could get top 8 w/ donkey okng
Divinokage
Smash Legend
You can, you just have to believe harder and be 100% confident in your skills. That way at least you can maximize your growth. If you don't, I don't think its possible however. The top players generally all have a really really strong will to win and they definitely put in the hours necessary to perform well.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
just curious. does fair grab actually combo? i assume it doesn't and that opponents get out with spotdodge/roll. But can they grab you first or can peach nair out? I was just curious how much stun that move ends with. do you get frame advantage?
honestly i don't even play pikachu, but i remember in the old days when i was really really bad at this game I would practice fair grab with pikachu
honestly i don't even play pikachu, but i remember in the old days when i was really really bad at this game I would practice fair grab with pikachu
N64
Smash Champion
short answer: no.
longer answer: it can, but it's really dependant on their floatiness, percentage, position relative to you, and ability to DI. So, it can combo, but it's very situational and also they can just DI out to make it not combo.
longer answer: it can, but it's really dependant on their floatiness, percentage, position relative to you, and ability to DI. So, it can combo, but it's very situational and also they can just DI out to make it not combo.
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if peach is mashing out nair she'll likely hit you if you go for a fair>grab, since pika's fair can rarely legitimately link into anything else (other than fair tailspike which isnt even a true combo). however, low-hit fair to jab is a true combo and i think low-hit fair to ftilt can counter peach mashing nair out of fair.
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
Whats the general consensus on the pika-peach matchup? I for one, absolutely hate it.
Also, what do you guys think about marth? I don't mind it too much actually.
Also, what do you guys think about marth? I don't mind it too much actually.
AXE 09
Smash Master
You and I have the exact same opinions on both matchups lol
Captain Smuckers
Smash Journeyman
Oh great! That must mean I'm good at pikachu now right?
While I know marth can combo pikachu pretty well, I'm okay with it since pikachu can very easily gimp him and is also very capable of punishing whiffed attacks and what not. Whereas peach, not quite so much. I can hardly even explain why I hate peach, just like everything about her irks me.
While I know marth can combo pikachu pretty well, I'm okay with it since pikachu can very easily gimp him and is also very capable of punishing whiffed attacks and what not. Whereas peach, not quite so much. I can hardly even explain why I hate peach, just like everything about her irks me.
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As long as you're not above him, Marth's combo game isn't punishing to the point where getting caught at low/med % means too much danger, since just di'ing away from his combos usually keeps you safe...the hard part is winning more encounters than Marth, but thankfully some of these encounters can convert to edgeguard setups AND most Marths are easy to edgeguard, so it evens out.
N64
Smash Champion
Peach is a meany. I like having a shield and being able to approach occasionally, why won't she let me? T_T
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Shielding anything from peach is usually bad news imo lol. All of her fc aerials give her frame advantage (except dair), dsmash is too strong...maybe dash attack? Next time I play a Peach I'm going to see what attacks I can shield>buffer fh out of safely...
Also, I've been thinking about this a little and i want to see if people agree - Pika usually likes to stay below his opponent, but I think that VS Peach is one of the rare matchups where Pika should embrace platforms and being above Peach. Peach's movement is slow, her jump sucks, and she can't approach anyone on a platform unless she floats right underneath it, goes onto one, or uses a turnip.
Pika can also use side platforms to approach against floating Peach, which typically walls off Pika's approach options completely. If she's floating and facing you and you're nairing from an even level or above, her nair priority isn't as effective against you since her nair is angled against people below and in front of her. <link> Even if Peach manages to space aerials perfectly to trade, Pika can come out with the advantage by using dair from platform...unless it's against fair.
thoughts or ideas? agree/disagree? i want to think about this more later but its kind of late now and im gonna go zzz
Also, I've been thinking about this a little and i want to see if people agree - Pika usually likes to stay below his opponent, but I think that VS Peach is one of the rare matchups where Pika should embrace platforms and being above Peach. Peach's movement is slow, her jump sucks, and she can't approach anyone on a platform unless she floats right underneath it, goes onto one, or uses a turnip.
- Jump from/floating underneath > aerial : Shield > shielddrop aerial (preferably uair/nair/bair). If you can't shielddrop, just shorthop over it or something...or retreat to top platform.
- Goes onto/aerials onto a platform from above : Dismount the platform, now she's stuck above you. Just don't jump into a dsmash.
- Turnip : If Peach throws a turnip to hit you while you're on a platform it shouldn't be very hard to catch. Smarter Peach will probably use the turnip to wall off your movement options to setup an approach, but you have multiple escape options so she'll still end up doing one of the 2 above approaches.
Pika can also use side platforms to approach against floating Peach, which typically walls off Pika's approach options completely. If she's floating and facing you and you're nairing from an even level or above, her nair priority isn't as effective against you since her nair is angled against people below and in front of her. <link> Even if Peach manages to space aerials perfectly to trade, Pika can come out with the advantage by using dair from platform...unless it's against fair.
thoughts or ideas? agree/disagree? i want to think about this more later but its kind of late now and im gonna go zzz
q1 would you uair juggle to dair or uair juggle to tail spike?
what do you think of uair to put pressure when your holdin the ledge, like your on the ledge and you drop, jump, uair to ledge grab. do invincibility frames last long enough to be useful? or should i just be busting out fairs from the ledge
what do you think of uair to put pressure when your holdin the ledge, like your on the ledge and you drop, jump, uair to ledge grab. do invincibility frames last long enough to be useful? or should i just be busting out fairs from the ledge
Spyro
Smash Ace
It would depend on the character you're facing, what percent they are at, and what situation you're in.
I'm not sure about the second question.
I'm not sure about the second question.
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i dont think the invul frames are enough to guarantee safety. i dont like ledgehop aerials in general but if your opponent gets caught by ledgehop uairs a lot then by all means do it. perfect edgeguard setup. i dont like fair from ledge but some opponents end up holding shield out of it which gives you a free grab bthrow.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
if they are just multishining your shield, you can buffer a roll out...
otherwise, just look for their mistakes and uair (as was said earlier)
Nair OoS is pretty good too, but no range.
you can usmash if they full hop or something.
otherwise, just look for their mistakes and uair (as was said earlier)
Nair OoS is pretty good too, but no range.
you can usmash if they full hop or something.
AXE 09
Smash Master
For q1: I think it depends, but I usually like to end strong with a Dair/Nair/Bair. But if we're very close to the edge, then sometimes I like going for the tailspike -> edgeguard instead.
For q2: I love doing ledgehop Uair and grabbing the edge again. It's not 100% safe, but it's still pretty darn safe lol. If they get hit by it, it'll send them off the edge to reverse the edgeguard which is awesome. I almost never ledgehop Fair, cuz my opponents love to just CC it and punish me.
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It's time to use Pikachu
AXE 09
Smash Master
Gonna post this here too lol:
Here's all of my matches from FC in the order they were played
POOLS R1
Vs. DJ Talent aka The Lake (Zelda):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9UAlnlU9eM
POOLS R2
Vs. Pikachad (Link/Mario)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPcaIJUT0S8
Vs Drephen (Sheik)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFBx9GCzGRs
BRACKET MATCHES
Vs. Kage (Ganon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGC_E_MUznw
Vs. SwiftBass (Fox/Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPfjupH9y9g
Vs. Duck (Samus)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD5WIVF4Upo
Vs. Little England (Falco/Sheik)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zEN61YpFl0
TOP 8 RR
Vs. Mango (Fox)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlloTsLyd6Q
Vs. Kage (Ganon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1mCbPLIkoU
Vs. Hax (Falcon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgxiLQcr5_A
Vs. Kels (Fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RFAoH_dMms
Vs. Hungrybox (Jigglypuff)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741XSWhw0M0
Vs. Darkrain (Falcon) <- Don't watch this set lol. I played so gay >.< Everything else is good though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi7gGBQKlAM
Vs. Sfat (Fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw584NTIYsI
The only thing not uploaded yet was the bracket match of me vs Mojo, but that should be uploaded sometime in the future
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Not to be mean but doesn't that statement speak for itself already? lol. Axe's skill is certainly beyond anyone else here.
AXE 09
Smash Master
Lol dkuo you got this man!
So I've been working on my shield dropping... can any of you tell? Lol
So I've been working on my shield dropping... can any of you tell? Lol
Spyro
Smash Ace
Dat Pika never stops entertaining, good stuff Axe, you are amazing.
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
No cuz it still sucks...Lol dkuo you got this man!
So I've been working on my shield dropping... can any of you tell? Lol
<3
jk
xD
AXE 09
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
1 - shield
2 - drop
but seriously here
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=322062
not mentioned: you can also do a shield drop by just easing your grey stick straight downwards at the right acceleration. im trying to get consistent with this method on the offchance im not tilting my shield on a platform and someone decides to pressure me
2 - drop
but seriously here
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=322062
not mentioned: you can also do a shield drop by just easing your grey stick straight downwards at the right acceleration. im trying to get consistent with this method on the offchance im not tilting my shield on a platform and someone decides to pressure me
N64
Smash Champion
back in my day we didn't even have shields.
you kids and your newfangled gadgetries.
you kids and your newfangled gadgetries.