Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[Bing]

Thats because you're Roy

no legit I've never played him. But I played Alukard if that makes it even? LMFAO

 

[Shadocat]

Hmmmm... still cant seem to get pikas wavedashing down right

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

It just takes time and practice. That's really true for any wavedash. Though it varies on the character it just takes getting used to. Try practicing airdodges in other directions, then practice trying to wavedash backwards or forwards. Just make sure you press the buttons and release them quickly or you could have a leftover shield afterwards. Not sure if you're just learning it or just getting used to Pika's, but yeah.

 

[Italis]

Pika's wavedash is relatively easy, IMO.... its really a fast movement, is all. its alot like fox's wavedash too. heres some tips on it:
1. make sure you know his jump! you have to know it by heart!
2. keep it simple. Don't try to do anything flashy until you can get the basics down
3. Meet axe. Wavedash for him. Mass wavedash for him. watch him smile

 

[Shadocat]

hmm..... i might just go back to learning doc. man im not sure

Should i just play all the characters until i find one that fits me the best or what.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

That would probably be the best idea if you don't know who to go with. Try them all, see how well you do with each one against CPUs, then go with the one or two you feel best suit you.

 

[Krynxe]

Never judge what character you're best with based off of your performance versus computers.

It's best to go with whatever play-style you like the most, whatever feels most natural to you. Whatever character reflects your style of play the most.

Some people are more well versed, or like a change in pace, so they'll play multiple characters. It's harder to improve and perfect your style this way, but it can definitely be done. Do whatever suits you best, but don't ever go with seems easiest and don't let another person tell you who to main. This, of course, means not limiting yourself to high tiers as crazy as that may sound. I honestly believe that high tiers are just shortcuts for people. Until you reach top level play, the only thing that matters is having more skill than your opponent, not a better character. (Not to say you can't prefer a high tier; many people do. Just don't exclude every low tier as "non-viable" and at least consider them if you really enjoy them.)

 

[odinNJ]

I fell in love with Roy the first time I touched him. But I sucked at him, and I would do better with falco, but I stuck with him and now I am glad I did, unless it's against a ******** character
Like ics Ganon weeg sheik or samus, but still. If you are good with a char, it doesn't mean they are the one for you. Just go with who you like and screw your win loss

 

[Rainbow]

Yeah, I started with Marth and Doc and then said "let's get good at a low tier".

I decided to play Pikachu randomly as my new secondary since there was no Pikachu in our play group. When I started playing him, I never looked back; I just knew Pikachu was the character for me, not just a secondary.

Now I'm terrible at Marth ;_;

 

[Shadocat]

I started messing around with other characters.

Young link is mad legit. so much ground and air speed. and a good wavedash too. why is this guy not high tier???

Same thing with mario and Kirby. Mario's definitely tournament viable being an all-around character. Kirby has a solid wavedash and good moves.

I dont know about the current metagame very much but these three, plus pikachu can really improve. Or am I looking at this from a different perspective?

 

[Rainbow]

I started messing around with other characters.

Young link is mad legit. so much ground and air speed. and a good wavedash too. why is this guy not high tier???

Same thing with mario and Kirby. Mario's definitely tournament viable being an all-around character. Kirby has a solid wavedash and good moves.

I dont know about the current metagame very much but these three, plus pikachu can really improve. Or am I looking at this from a different perspective?

Young Link and Mario are both pretty viable as far as low tiers go, but Kirby is atrocious.

 

[odinNJ]

I started messing around with other characters.

Young link is mad legit. so much ground and air speed. and a good wavedash too. why is this guy not high tier???

You need more than that to be a high tier.

Same thing with mario and Kirby. Mario's definitely tournament viable being an all-around character. Kirby has a solid wavedash and good moves.

Mario is not atrocious, hes just not good.
Kirby doesnt have anything going for him. Hes the worst character in melee.

I dont know about the current metagame very much but these three, plus pikachu can really improve. Or am I looking at this from a different perspective?

Mario is underplayed, pickachu only has one really amazing player who wins things, but i think pickachu has potential.
Kirby sucks worse than Roy minus Mewtwo minus pichu.

responses are in bold.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Never judge what character you're best with based off of your performance versus computers.

It's best to go with whatever play-style you like the most, whatever feels most natural to you. Whatever character reflects your style of play the most.

Well, that's what I meant- figuring out your playstyle and the characters that best suit you by playing against computers, not specifically how much you win or lose against them. Just to be able to work out a feel of them and whether or not you enjoy that feel.

Shadocat- If you love TLink's feel, go for it. If you like Mario or Kirby's feel better, go for it. You can secondary as many characters as you want- and if you like two characters equally, you can also double main. The more you like the character you are playing as, the more you will want to devote time and practice to them, and the better you will become.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Mario is underplayed, pickachu only has one really amazing player who wins things, but i think pickachu has potential.
Kirby sucks worse than Roy minus Mewtwo minus pichu.

There are more mario players than Pika players, but, like all mid/low tiers, the majority of people who use him main somebody else and don't use him much in tournament.
so yea.

I don't understand the last part of what you are saying.

 

[odinNJ]

pichu is better than kirby, but worse than roy/m2.
btw, i have so much faith in pickachu

 

[Krynxe]

Kirby is definitely better than Pichu. People who say otherwise have probably not watched (m)any good Kirby players before.

Kirby has a good fair, dair does good damage and can be followed up, utilt combos into itself and then into bair after the percent is too high, dtilt is slightly disjointed (vertically, even) and is a great spacing move, his smashes and uair can kill quite well, kirby isn't the easiest to kill, and his neutral-b isn't the worst tool for a random mixup/mindgame/kirbycide/ability gain.

Kirby has more to his disposal than this, but this is what I know from my little experience. There's a really good kirby player in oregon, and I've seen him take sets off of pretty good players as kirby. Like Bowser, they have to know the matchup or else Kirby can actually be slightly viable.

Of course I use terms like "good" relative to Pichu, not to the entire character roster.

 

[odinNJ]

pichu has great speed, a useful recovery, a usable projectilte, ok throws, uair, thunder, nair, he does well against marf, can do stuff to spacies. Dont get me wrong they are both awful characters, i just think that kirby is worse than pichu

 

[Krynxe]

Understandable. The difference between the two is not a very large one, but I just noticed it has become a common trend to think that kirby is worse than pichu without any real justification or explanation so I get a bit irritated when I see it. You're knowledgeable though, so that was just me being a bit too hostile from prejudice haha. Sorry

 

[odinNJ]

No problem I love debating low tiers with people who understand them.

 

[indigestible_wad]

Kirby has more to his disposal than this, but this is what I know from my little experience. There's a really good kirby player in oregon, and I've seen him take sets off of pretty good players as kirby. Like Bowser, they have to know the matchup or else Kirby can actually be slightly viable.

Of course I use terms like "good" relative to Pichu, not to the entire character roster.

Yeah, t1mmy's kirby is good, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't used kirby competitively since 2007. I talked with him about it once. He told me that in order to do anything well he had to invent tricks to deal with higher tier characters. It was all quite cool.

 

[Shadocat]

RRR iirc also has a good kirby

 

[DerfMidWest]

i'm gonna try not to be biased in my reasoning for why I feel that Pichu is better.
Keep in mind, I have used and played against a good deal of both Pichu and kirby, so i'm not just pulling stuff out of my ***.

Pichu has a safe *** approach. If you hit a shield with pichu, you can just grab right out of it. Its super safe and its actually good. He has the same nair through shield -> rising uair/nair stuff as pika and all that other jazz.
Kirby has no real approach, but it (he?) can't really camp well against a lot of the cast (basically anybody with a projectile).
Pichu has the option to play both aggressively and defensively (depending on the matchup)
Both characters have decent gimp games, although, I'd argue that pichu's is better, kirby's is not bad.
Pichu has better killing power than kirby (obviously, kirby's uair kills fast, but its not as easy to land as pichu's kill moves). kirby does have kill moves (bair/uair), but pichu has way more.
both characters have amazing tilts, kirby's are a bit better.
Both characters have good techchase/chaingrab games, but pichu's grab game is over all better.
Pichu deals with pressure better than kirby. Pichu's nair OoS is quick and safe, Pichu also has usmash and upB and stuff, which kirby really only has rising uair/bair and maaaybe fair. basically all of pichu's aerials are usable OoS, except dair. fair is enh, but still has uses.
Pichu has a good projectile. it helps him a lot. it also makes him harder to camp against for a lot of characters.
Pichu can get off the ledge more easily. using doraki/walljumps, upB, rising nair, and rising uair work very well. obviously, pichu has good/quick options from his ledgedash too. Kirby only really has rising fair and sometimes rising uair. ledgedash grab/ftilt is ok too.
Kirby's recovery is a lot more predictable/gimpable.
Pichu is really fast and mobile, which prevents him from being out camped by many people, while kirby is pretty stationary.
Kirby has nothing against CC, pichu gets pretty ****ed by it too, but dair->grab ***** CC if the pichu sees it.

Now, i've read through this again, and it did turn out pretty biased, despite me trying to not make it that way. Kirby combos into his kill moves really well. but pichu can combo into nair really well also.
the characters are both really close, but I feel as though Pichu is a tiny bit better.
I don't know if kirby it really the worst character in the game, but Pichu is still better than him, imo.

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, t1mmy's kirby is good, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't used kirby competitively since 2007. I talked with him about it once. He told me that in order to do anything well he had to invent tricks to deal with higher tier characters. It was all quite cool.

I was actually talking about TheSickKirby haha

and yeah, RRR is great

I haven't played timmy or his brother yet. Aren't they on brawl now?

 

[AXE 09]

I personally think Kirby is better than Pichu actually. We all have our opinions though.

Also:

Shadocat- If you love TLink's Ylink's feel, go for it. If you like Mario or Kirby's feel better, go for it. You can secondary as many characters as you want- and if you like two characters equally, you can also double main. The more you like the character you are playing as, the more you will want to devote time and practice to them, and the better you will become.

^This is a great quote right here I agree.



More on Pikachu though, have you guys noticed that when you quick attack and land on the floor a certain way, you can't do your 2nd zip?

For instance, if you're on Battlefield standing on one of the side platforms, and you do a standing quick attack diagonally downwards towards the center of the stage, you can't do your 2nd zip. What's up with that?

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

I'd imagine it has something to do with the way Pika's QA is canceled on the ground. Seeing how he gets so much lag when the second zip hits the ground, it'd make sense that it could impair him using his second zip. Not sure what the coding details could be, though. It might be a side effect or it could have been intended to prevent landing bugs with his QA.

 

[Rainbow]

Another thing I recently noticed about QA is if you drop slightly from the ledge and then do it, Pikachu will grab the ledge before he actually goes anywhere (similar to fox and his up-b). The pause is really slight though so it doesn't seem to have any merit, it is just kind of cool.

 

[indigestible_wad]

I was actually talking about TheSickKirby haha

and yeah, RRR is great

I haven't played timmy or his brother yet. Aren't they on brawl now?

I have no idea who that is, so he probably hasn't been in the community for a long time. Timmy and tommy are much bigger into brawl now, although timmy likes to play melee now and again. He plays fox.

More on Pikachu though, have you guys noticed that when you quick attack and land on the floor a certain way, you can't do your 2nd zip?

For instance, if you're on Battlefield standing on one of the side platforms, and you do a standing quick attack diagonally downwards towards the center of the stage, you can't do your 2nd zip. What's up with that?

I know what you're talking about. Have you noticed that pikachu has the "minimum lag landing animation" when landing on the floor? (I say minimum, although I'm not sure if it's just the fact that he has no falling animation) Try doing a horizontal quick attack where pikachu starts at frame 1 off the ground after jumping. If you do this correctly you cannot do a second zip and pikachu immediately lands on the ground with the minimum lag animation.

If you horizontal quick attack on the floor without jumping then pikachu will stop with his double landing lag (I don't remember if you can do a second one and I don't have my gamecube set up to test it). Something cool is that if you perform this (the non jump one) off the main platform and then back on, you will get the minimum lag landing animation instead of the maximum like you normally would if you had not jumped.

It seems to me like the reason is because pikachu is on the border of both the ground and the air, torn between landing laggily and falling, but I've got no explanation as to why the game stops the quick attack.

Another thing I recently noticed about QA is if you drop slightly from the ledge and then do it, Pikachu will grab the ledge before he actually goes anywhere (similar to fox and his up-b). The pause is really slight though so it doesn't seem to have any merit, it is just kind of cool.

Actually if you could consistently pull that off multiple times in a row, you could be invincible indefinitely. There's some frame data around here somewhere.

 

[Rainbow]

Anyone know how to fight Link?

 

[oukd]

positioning - during neutral game try to stay outside his sword range but stay close enough to discourage his projectile game. you're a lot faster than link so it's easy to maneuver around his close range attacks, but projectiles will still limit how you can move around to approach link

edgeguarding - imo jolt > edgehog/waiting onstage until link commits to a recovery > reaction followup is a lot more effective than straight running offstage edgeguarding vs link since link has a lot of defensive/reactionary options vs edgeguarding

recovering - be careful of QA'ing on stage unless you recover really far from him. if he's going for a reaction up+B guard, QA over him or sweetspot from below. if he's edgehogging, your only real option is to QA to a safe distance, but you could go for a sweetspot mixup if he doesn't roll/react and it'll hit him out of hog or he'll jump and give you the edge. if he rolls though you're dead so only use it as a mixup when other options don't help.

other stuff - link's nair hitbox lasts a lot longer than it looks. don't be predictable with approaches (especially nair) since it's very easy for link to swat you with jab/tilt/anything sword-related really. mid/high % be careful of dtilt/utilt/grab/bomb since they can lead into strong hits/ko's

most of this is just theory <.< maybe ask axe since he plays smurfyexe

 

[Captain Smuckers]

I've not been on the pika boards in quite some time, how're ya'll doin? I'm attending a tourney tomorrow and assuming I don't be a loser I plan on playing all pika, wish me luck.

 

[oukd]

Hey dude, you got this

I finally got out of pools with Falco at Zenith but I want to be able to do that with Pika too...from now until Apex I'm going to focus more on Pika and hopefully do decently then.

 

[Spyro]

Congratulations dkuo, and good luck on making it out of pools at Apex with Pikachu

 

[iRobinhoood]

I'd love to see more pika's advance out of pools at Apex. I've found my tournament character and I'm pretty sure I'm a Falcon main but I always love my Pika game. Except vs Peach ;_;

 

[Spyro]

Axe is too good at Pikachu vs Peach. I think the only peach he could really lose to in tournament, in that match up, is Armada.

 

[oukd]

Watching Chudat's Pika vs some of the local Peaches is total awesomesauce

Too bad he's 'quitting' melee ~_~

 

[iRobinhoood]

Yea so g@y. I love watching his ICs. Apparently his American tour is finished and might have a European tourney left if he raises enough funds.

 

[Captain Smuckers]

I'm pretty sure that fell through because people realized he was quitting or whatever. So anyway I sucked at that tournament, but I decided to switch from falco to pikachu. I've been trying to for a while and just haven't had the balls to do it. After talking to some people there I realized I totally should.

 

[Rainbow]

I'm pretty sure that fell through because people realized he was quitting or whatever. So anyway I sucked at that tournament, but I decided to switch from falco to pikachu. I've been trying to for a while and just haven't had the balls to do it. After talking to some people there I realized I totally should.

Yeah bro, go for it. I think Pikachu is becoming more and more of a character that people consider viable. It is very possible he will rise to C tier with the 2012 list, but even if he doesn't he's still the king of D tier.

 

[odinNJ]

yo smuckers your pika was lookin nice on saturday at No Johns.

 

[Captain Smuckers]

Thanks, unfortunate that we didn't play any friendlies, but maybe next time. I wish that crew hadn't happened lol; I really wasn't feelin so hot in it and I hate samus lol, but afterwards I got my act together and played some good friendlies.

So I went to PC Chris' house yesterday and played with him and Nintendude (a very good east coast ice climbers) and I felt like I actually did alright against Chris' fox, falco and marth. Granted, he probably wasn't trying his hardest or anything but eh, whatever. Nintendude however, I just had no idea what to do against, ice climbers are stupid lol.