Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[Rainbow]

ice climbers are stupid lol.

come here bro

 

[Bing]

Against ICs its a lot of spacing and ****** Nana. Keep them seperated whenever you can lol.

 

[Rainbow]

Anyone want to discuss Pikachu's OoS options? Obviously the JC upsmash is powerful but I really like just going into a uair combo.

 

[Bing]

Uair OoS is pretty solid, same with Nair seeing as the both have active hitboxes relatively early.

 

[Spyro]

What's do you guys think of using Pikachu's small shield as some sort of bait so you can try to get a grab with sheild SDI?

EDIT: Maybe you could Shield SDI towards them and uair Oos as well.

 

[oukd]

I like shield sdi but I rarely try to grab with it. Usually if the opponent tries to space well you'll still be out of reach for a grab. Sigh, stubby arms ~_~

@Rainbow:

Spoiler

I like wd oos more than I should. Probably the most common oos choice I make...for any character. Good for repositioning during defense, dodging under high grabs (from tall characters), escaping pressure/resetting, etc.

Uair oos is vital for pika - almost always a viable option against people who aerial your shield and land behind you. Bair oos is good if you need to knock your opponent far away - it's a little laggy on landing but not as laggy as you might think. Nair oos is fast too but I barely use it, but it has a similar function to bair oos I think. Nair hits in front faster than uair so you could use it for people shffling your shield and landing in front of you. Fair/Dair/other attacks oos comes out pretty slow so you might just be hitting a shield or get outspaced, but it works occasionally. (ie fullhop dair/fair oos in some instances, esp if your opponent likes to chase you when you're in the air. I hit someone with fullhop thunder oos once <_<)

Fullhop oos is good for escape but it usually puts you in a bad position (above opponent) so make sure you reposition yourself asap after jump oos. Wavelanding onto a platform after fullhop oos is usually your best bet so that you're not stranded in the air. I suppose you could also up+B after jump oos to edgehog or some other safe location.

Shielddropping is underused in general but you should learn it. Shielddrop in general to escape is really good, but you can shielddrop aerial as an added layer of defense. If someone's pressuring you from above, shielddrop uair. From below, shielddrop fastfall nair. Don't be predictable about it though, it's way too easy to punish if you see it coming.

There's also spotdodge/roll obviously. Pika's roll is pretty clunky so be wary about using it.

 

[Bing]

Yeah because of Pika's lack there of range, Shield Grabbing is a poor way to bait someone in. Plus if its a spacie, they WILL **** your shield if you just sit in it.

 

[Spyro]

Yeah but Pikachu has a small shield so couldn't you get a grab cause they have to get that close to you?

 

[Bing]

Most characters grab range will still out-range that of Pikachu's.

Think about it this way if this makes sense


Marths Grab range. ----->
Pikachus Grab range.->

So basically you get this.

Marth grabbing Pikachu
--->ikachubrawl:

Pikachu Grabbing Marth
ikachubrawl:->

Basically I did this to show the distance needed for another character to grab Pika as opposed to Pika grabbing them

 

[Spyro]

Silly me I forgot about that (them going for a grab).

 

[Bing]

You also mentioned that Pikachu has a small shield meaning most characters putting shield pressure are more likely to get a break or poke on you, so I really would stay away from sitting in shield.

Also one of Pikachu's best assests is his mobility and aerial attacks. So why sit on the ground in shield hoping for a grab when you can start a combo with another attack involving one of his strengths, the risk-reward is not worth it.

 

[Spyro]

You also mentioned that Pikachu has a small shield meaning most characters putting shield pressure are more likely to get a break or poke on you, so I really would stay away from sitting in shield.

This is why I was thinking for using it for some sort of bait, they would most likely taken knowing what is underlined. But w/e, I can't think of any good shield baits.

 

[Bing]

In some sort of theory, yes that would work, but unfortunately in a game as fast as melee, I dont see it working, however dont let logic slow you down, give it a try, it could still work.

 

[Rainbow]

Yeah, Pikachu's grab range is so awful but her throws are so good. It really sucks, but hey, at least one is good.

 

[Spyro]

Yeah Melee is fast so I would imagine it would take some guess work, but that is something I really want to get good at, reading/ predication.

 

[Bing]

reads are hard to work on at home, because I mean, computers do the same damn thing every time.

I use Falcon and friendlies and go for a lot of grab tech chasing combos. Apparently my Falcon's so jank people dont know what to do against it :D

 

[Spyro]

I think watching videos is a pretty good way of getting better at reads. I think understanding your opposites' options and knowing their play style is a big part of it.

 

[Bing]

This is true, especially playing against people you learn there habits, example I stand straight up a lot. But at the same time, having the ability to make reads is greater then anything because you will have to play different opponents all the time, and the higher caliber player you face, the less likely it they'll have a habit like mine.

 

[Spyro]

Yeah it's harder to get reads on higher level players but it's possible. Picking up on when they they like to switch options/ picking up on patterns (example: tecking away from the the twice and tecking in place the third) s anther thing you want to do. If you get up to high enough level play you might start predicting them to adapt and punish accordingly.

 

[N64]

usmash oos or instant uair oos are usually better options than shieldgrab. Both outrange his grab, are about as fast, and still usually lead to neat stuff.

But yeah, relying on your shield is scary business.

 

[oukd]

I agree that pika's small shield reels some opponents in much closer than they should be (I wrote something about it a few pages back) but it's still easy to outspace against for smart players because of pika's crappy range.

Shieldbaiting is a scary thing to gamble with since pika in shield is a really bad position in general, but you can use it if your opponent has an easily exploited shield pressure game. In these cases you can get away with turnaround shield > uair oos all day. You could also shieldbait if you already know your opponent reacts to shield a certain way. This is only if they don't adapt to your shieldbaits well, because if they do you should just reserve it for when you're in defense since being stuck in shield isn't worth starting the mixup rps game imo (esp since the opponent has so many more options than you).

I feel that (especially for oos options) shieldgrabbing itself shouldn't ever be based off creating a setup to read an approach on your shield but rather out of reaction during defense to bad spacing/timing, missed lcancels, etc. Sure, shield sdi will improve your chances of closing in on them but trying to read whether they'll do a crossup/close/far spaced shffl on your shield isn't as effective as simply reacting to their spacing. Also it's stupid easy to punish against, only reinforced by the fact that so many players (even casual players) know how to space themselves just so that they can't be shieldgrabbed since it's one of the first oos defensive options people learn.

As for reading in general, IMO, understanding why your opponent does things the way he does is as important as memorizing habits, if not more important. For example (going off what Spyro said about teching) habit-wise you can say 'he always techs in place, but when I punish him he starts teching in, and his memory of my option coverage spans about <#> choices' but interpretation could be like 'teching in place = more worried about regaining control = player is aggro, teching in = more worried about survival = survival di = easier to combo, teching out/away = more worried about escaping = escape di = easier to kill, no tech = really risky attempt to escape a read/accident = player is panicking mad hard.'

Of course, thought like this varies from person to person and the way I wrote it is really linear, but I think initial tech habits (and habits in general prior to adaptation) give a good idea on how the opponent prioritizes his gameplay. Understanding habits is more important than memorizing them when you're reacting instead of predicting, and can segue you from reaction into prediction more easily later in the match (where both 'why' and 'what' will help immensely).

...or you can just dd space outside danger zone and always win

 

[odinNJ]

getting stuck in shield as pickachu is less scary than getting stuck in as most other chars, due to the fact that his uari oos comes out fast and even if it doesnt connect you still got away.
but it definatyl is bad, as usual.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Sometimes with Pika I feel as if I don't have a shield.

^ True story.

 

[odinNJ]

i have a question about the quick attack, how useful is it as an attack besides gimping. Is it really just for gimping because i feel like it could be used for other things. Idk

 

[Bing]

I like using it as a movement tool. I mean depending on the hitstun and knockback of an attack, I've used to get closer to the opponent. But really no, not many real uses..

 

[Spyro]

Gimping and recovery (and movement if you can consistanly ledge cancel it) are the only thing I can think of for using it. Using it as a non gimping attack sounds like a horrible option since it would be really hard to follow up with even if you where "jab" reseting and most of the time it will leave you open to get combed or killed.

 

[Bing]

Unless somehow Sudden Death Melee become an actual thing, then its incredibly useful lolol

 

[Rainbow]

Sometimes with Pika I feel as if I don't have a shield.

The best is when you shield for a second and they just blindly attack into your shield and you're like "lol I got this scrub" but then it pokes through anyway.

 

[Captain Smuckers]

I don't think quick attack would help in sudden death anyway since it has no knockback

 

[Bing]

It does actually a little knockback(I worked on my angles for quickattack by comboing up-b together at like 400%

 

[DerfMidWest]

I picked up pika again.
Gimps are fun.
And I'm taking a mini-break from Pichu until I've improved my fundamentals more.
But I still use him a lot... Because I can't put him away .-.


Anyway, Advice on pika/peach would be much appreciated. Because peach is still one of my worst matchups.
Even after putting a lot of work into learning it.... Can't do it with Pichu, fox, weegee, pika, or falcon :/

So yea, advice would be cool.

 

[Bing]

I dont know how you currently play the MU, KK explained Peach to me like this:"Peach is like a forretress of death" Basically this means that once you get inside, its a hard battle, I mean because of Nair and d-smash especailly. Pick your approaches wisely or even let Peach come to you by baiting with Projectiles. NEVER CROUCH CANCEL.(Derp) Personally I like trying to keep her above me and juggling her with Uairs but meh.

Its the same thing with Fox, use lasers wisely to add a few % here and there, space bairs well and if you can get a grab, GRAB.

For Falcon, I love this MU personally, just get a grab, down throw a few times and <insert generic Falcon combo here> I personally also like spacing nairs and bairs and throw out a few knees whenever shes floating (In place) on the other side of the stage(Or even off stage)

 

[oukd]

The more I play Pika vs Peach, the more I feel like you want to try and ruin her attempts at setting up her "fortress" as much as possible through frequent approaches since they have a decent chance of ending in a gimp, not to mention Peach doesn't have nearly as strong of a punish vs Pika as she does against a lot of the cast. Putting too much time into spacing and baiting gives Peach time to set up her defenses and run the game at her pace.

imo. <_<

 

[Rainbow]

I think against anyone Pikachu just wants to go hard, make the opponent mess up, and then punish them mercilessly.

Let's be honest here, Pikachu doesn't have the best defense and really does not have time to be messing around all that much.

 

[Spyro]

Pikachu is, put shortly, a glass cannon. He has really good offense, good speed but poor defense.

 

[odinNJ]

pickachu is more like a wood pistol to be honest,
falcos a glass canon.

 

[AXE 09]

Pikachu might not have the best defensive options, but he generally doesn't get punished hard. So one thing I love about him is that it's okay to take risks, knowing that you won't get punished so hard Can't exactly do the same with Falco.

Sometimes I'll take a risk, and if it works, then it's likely I'll get a kill. If not, then I'll get like ~20% as long as you DI correctly. Definitely worth the risk imo



Peach is tough She can't punish you hard, but she has such an amazing defensive game and it's very hard to get in on her. I feel like most of the time, I either trade or lose against her. I think the best thing to do is to keep chipping damage until she's at a high enough % so she can't CC Dsmash. When she's at that percent, it's easier to approach her (still pretty difficult though).

She's just a big wall of defense that can be difficult to get past.

 

[Spyro]

Thanks for the stuff on peach Axe. Your amazing at Pikachu vs Peach.

And yeah Pikachu can take risks but that's why I said put shortly. Maybe I could have worded it a litter better lol.

I've been messen around with possible combos and I really like d tilt into grab but I don't know if that works cause I've only been testing it in training mode and not in a match. What do you guys think? EDIT: I just thought about something, CCing could totally mess up that combo if they know it's coming.

 

[Rainbow]

So I was beating up computers for fun, and accidentally scored a sick kill against the AI Fox.

Basically, the Fox did his up-b diagonally from below the stage, I jumped horizontally off the stage and somehow ended up doing a side b back at him, which actually managed to kill him from whatever high % he was up.

It's like Falco's side-b minus being actually good!

Spoiler

but I might actually bust this out for some sick next level mindgaming

 

[odinNJ]

this might have been because wehn you hit computer foxes out of their upBs they dont use it again, they just fall to their deaths with their upBs forever forgotten.