Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[DJ Arcatek]

Jab 1 pushes the opponent away. Jab 2 brings the opponent closer. Jabbing twice is usually the better option rather than doing the single jab as it can result in better mixups and setups. Jabbing twice usually confirms a grab afterwards too.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Here is another look at it.

Two jabs means more chances for the opponent to DI or realize you are jabbing them and get out with some means of attack or defensive option.

Also, jab 1 has a faster IASA on it than jab 2 does.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

When it comes to Falco's Jab cancel, is canceling after Jab1 more useful than canceling after Jab2, or vice versa? If so, why?

It depends. Using jab1 abuses reaction time better. Jab2, however, grants us a frame advantage on med-slowfallers (I'm not sure on fastfallers).
You can mix jab1/jab2 up, but note that using jab2 gives the opponent opportunity to SDI.

edit: ****ing ninjas

 

[teluoborg]

It's actually the other way around.
Jab1 has a 80° trajectory and jab2 a 50° one.

@Reflex : it's really situational. From experience none of the jab cancels are safe on shield. Only thing completely safe is full jab sequence iirc, the rest are just mixups. Jab1 > grab isn't safe on anyone afaik.
But to answer your question it's better to cancel jab2.

edit : mother****ing ninjas

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

When it comes to Falco's Jab cancel, is canceling after Jab1 more useful than canceling after Jab2, or vice versa? If so, why?

Hey you, you ARE making AUSOM, aren't you?

As for your question, jab 2 is the better one to cancel on in almost all situations. Unless you're trying to create some space with jab->ftilt or some ****, then you probably want jab 2. Hell, if you want space, you should probably do jab->jab->cancel->jab->jab->cancel->react. That or jab->jab->grab.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Hey you, you ARE making AUSOM, aren't you?

Yeah; I live in the city that it's happening, so I have no excuse not to.

Also, thanks for the answers, everyone.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I have you on AIM and you know I'm a walking smash database.

Yet you didn't message me.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I don't have a laptop now (the motherboard in mine decided to stop working), so I only get on AIM while at work to talk to close friends. I don't really think about it for anyone else.

 

[Keitaro]

Lol the avi fits Reflex's post.

 

[F A N G]

Can someone explain how you're supposed to frame trap an opponent in the air as Falco? I really don't get it...

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Not sure if this is the best example. Jump up to an opponent with Uair, and if they airdodge, you can have just enough time to punish them with another aerial before they get out of the air dodge.

 

[SN Viper]

Can someone explain how you're supposed to frame trap an opponent in the air as Falco? I really don't get it...

What you need to do is bait an air dodge .

There are plenty of way to do this.

One of the most popular is while your opponent is falling to the stage you full hop up air to hit him. If your opponent air dodges you get a free hit depending on your opponents DI. Bair and dair are good to punish the air dodge with.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

A frametrap, by definition, is anytime your opponent's reaction to your move leaves him in a position where you get a free hit (or even an advantageous position). The most well known for Falco is his Uair. If they airdodge, you recover with a massive frame advantage and get a free aerial out of the deal. Uair, Bair, Dair, or Nair (Fair too, I guess) depending on how fast the enemy character falls and his DI. Another that doesn't involve an airdodge is silent laser on shield. A FRESH (key word "fresh") SILENT (key word "silent") laser on shield leaves the opponent in shield stun long enough that you can grab them before they can put their shield down, spot dodge, or use ANY out of shield options. They are trapped in shield stun until they are grabbed.

Bair can sometimes frame trap, but (unlike Uair) it's much more dependent on where the opponent DIs to as the position you'll throw a Bair from is a lot farther from your other aerials and they don't have to fall into you like with an Uair.

I don't know anymore that I put into practice, but with the frame advantage granted by Jab, there's probably some more stuff out there. People want to figure some out, go look at the frame data and see if something looks like it would work, then test it out. Tell me if you find something cool.

 

[teluoborg]

I think what you're talking about aren't frame traps, just baits.

A frame trap is a pseudo combo where your opponent has a restricted window of frames (hence a limited number of options) to counter the second move. The fewer frames there is, the better the frame trap.
Nair landing to grab is a frame trap.

Uair bait to provoke a punishable airdodge is, well, just a bait.

If you want an example of frame trap in the air, I'd say falling soft Bair to DJ strong Bair, or rising soft Uair to FF Dair/strong Uair.

 

[-DR3W-]

Short hop first hit of nair to grab.

Laser to dacus.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

OH MY GOD!!
Falco can ALMOST triple laser in brawl minus, it's SOOOO close >_<
Oh well, at least he can SH quintuple laser.

 

[SN Viper]

OH MY GOD!!
Falco can ALMOST triple laser in brawl minus, it's SOOOO close >_<
Oh well, at least he can SH quintuple laser.

i was playing brawl- for hours last night falco is fun as hell in that game.

 

[wangston]

so what is changed in the falco meta game the past two years. I`ve been in brazil with out smash so anyone want to catch me up.

 

[Denzi]

so what is changed in the falco meta game the past two years. I`ve been in brazil with out smash so anyone want to catch me up.

Oh wow, been a while since I've seen you around.

That's such a broad question it'd be tough to even start to answer it completely.

I suppose the biggest mechanical change would be the Buffered DACUS, which can be done out of SHDLs, Downthrow, and even shield drops and getup attacks for quick/surprise kills. The most common application of this would be Dthrow -> BDACUS, because if your opponent DIs down/away(like they're supposed to) they get hit, if they airdodge and you charge it they get hit, and if they DI up to avoid it you can just kill with a Bair.

Dunno if you were around for the whole "jab x2 is godly" realization, but well, it is, and you can even go as far as to cancel it into itself multiple times. There are also things that I think are common sense, but useful nonetheless, like reversing a firebird so the slight backwards kick at the peak will push you back onstage so as to not get the hell edgeguarded out of you.

There are also the things that help the matchup vs Falco that I'm not sure you were around for, like being able to SDI +tech Falco's CG -> Spike.

And then there's some random gimmicky stuff that was discovered which is more fun/interesting than it is useful, like Foolstool -> Laserlock combos and Ledge Hopped Triple Lasers and the like. Stuff you'll never use in an actual match.

I know there are things I'm leaving out, and I may have listed things you already knew (it's tough to remember when some of this stuff was first discovered). It should be a good chunk to start with though.

 

[Briimstone]

What is (typically) a good alt to have when you main Falco?

 

[swordsaint]

mk

lulz

not anymore though

marth

 

[wangston]

Oh wow, been a while since I've seen you around.

That's such a broad question it'd be tough to even start to answer it completely.

I suppose the biggest mechanical change would be the Buffered DACUS, which can be done out of SHDLs, Downthrow, and even shield drops and getup attacks for quick/surprise kills. The most common application of this would be Dthrow -> BDACUS, because if your opponent DIs down/away(like they're supposed to) they get hit, if they airdodge and you charge it they get hit, and if they DI up to avoid it you can just kill with a Bair.

Dunno if you were around for the whole "jab x2 is godly" realization, but well, it is, and you can even go as far as to cancel it into itself multiple times. There are also things that I think are common sense, but useful nonetheless, like reversing a firebird so the slight backwards kick at the peak will push you back onstage so as to not get the hell edgeguarded out of you.

There are also the things that help the matchup vs Falco that I'm not sure you were around for, like being able to SDI +tech Falco's CG -> Spike.

And then there's some random gimmicky stuff that was discovered which is more fun/interesting than it is useful, like Foolstool -> Laserlock combos and Ledge Hopped Triple Lasers and the like. Stuff you'll never use in an actual match.

I know there are things I'm leaving out, and I may have listed things you already knew (it's tough to remember when some of this stuff was first discovered). It should be a good chunk to start with though.

Yeah most of that kind of already know, cept the bdacus, sounds cool. Always loved falcos jabs, but good to know jab 2 is better than i thought. Reverse firebird always did that....... Yeah i don`t care about the gimicky poop.

Good to see the meta game has changed so much in two years hahaha.

So there are some match up questions I have I saw that we are two up on olimar???? where is the discussion for that cause I`ve got a hard time with him.

Other new thing i saw was the cg guide by dehf, didn`t know the chain grab could do all that.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

That match-up chart was done by the bbr
Not exactly sure why it was shown as a +2 for falco. I think jab being extremely annoying to olimar had something to do with it.

 

[Denzi]

That match-up chart was done by the bbr
Not exactly sure why it was shown as a +2 for falco. I think jab being extremely annoying to olimar had something to do with it.

I think it has more to do with the fact that Larry knows the Oli matchup inside and out, and thus always out preforms him.

But yes, Jab and Nair destroy Pikmin, and Olimar doesn't really have an answer to our jab anyway.

if you're having trouble with the matchup just check out how DEHF fights Olimar and you'll probably pick up more than we could tell you.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Ledgehop triple laser? The third laser being grounded, I'm assuming?

 

[Denzi]

Ledgehop triple laser? The third laser being grounded, I'm assuming?

With the 3rd laser being silent, actually. It's interesting for sure, but I've never found it any better than a ledgehopped double laser.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

How the hell do you do that? o.O

 

[Elemt]

I assume its this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXytQYCb6sk

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

lol A 3 year old video and something you hardly see anyone use.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Cool, now I can do this in matches and accidentally gimp myself all the time

 

[BleachigoZX]

Cool, now I can do this in matches and accidentally gimp myself all the time

Don't suck.

lol

 

[Zwei Striker]

You could always just drop, jump and triple laser to land on the stage... just saying

 

[zmx]

I have a question regarding falco's phantasm cancel. How exactly do you ensure that 100% you do it correctly?

I know how it works. You press b again within a very very tiny amount of frames. And this is just the problem. The margin for error is so large that I can't seem to do the intial and mid cancels at all consistantly.

So I can only conclude that people have either found a visible cue as to when to press b again I'm not noticing or something similar. Please only answer if you can do it 100% of the time or close to.

 

[BleachigoZX]

I have a question regarding falco's phantasm cancel. How exactly do you ensure that 100% you do it correctly?

I know how it works. You press b again within a very very tiny amount of frames. And this is just the problem. The margin for error is so large that I can't seem to do the intial and mid cancels at all consistantly.

So I can only conclude that people have either found a visible cue as to when to press b again I'm not noticing or something similar. Please only answer if you can do it 100% of the time or close to.

I'm actually really good at forcing the cancels.

Here's my secret: lolz

Yeah, it's all understanding how phantasm works and getting lucky with your mashes. It's a 3 frame window for 3 different lengths, each one with it's respective frame. (The 4th, full length, being that you push nothing.) Maybe I've been fishing for them so long that it becomes easy to kinda pick one and maybe get it. I honestly believe there isn't a trick to it. Just repetitive practice and getting a bit lucky.

The frames are 18-21 (assuming you spent 6 frames to jump so it's really 12-15)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm actually really good at forcing the cancels.

Here's my secret: lolz

Yeah, it's all understanding how phantasm works and getting lucky with your mashes. It's a 3 frame window for 3 different lengths, each one with it's respective frame. (The 4th, full length, being that you push nothing.) Maybe I've been fishing for them so long that it becomes easy to kinda pick one and maybe get it. I honestly believe there isn't a trick to it. Just repetitive practice and getting a bit lucky.

The frames are 18-21 (assuming you spent 6 frames to jump so it's really 12-15)

That game was straight up rude. Good ****.

 

[zmx]

I'm actually really good at forcing the cancels.

Here's my secret: lolz

Yeah, it's all understanding how phantasm works and getting lucky with your mashes. It's a 3 frame window for 3 different lengths, each one with it's respective frame. (The 4th, full length, being that you push nothing.) Maybe I've been fishing for them so long that it becomes easy to kinda pick one and maybe get it. I honestly believe there isn't a trick to it. Just repetitive practice and getting a bit lucky.

The frames are 18-21 (assuming you spent 6 frames to jump so it's really 12-15)

So what you basically do is mash the buttons like mad around the frames you know it'll work in? Does that really help you do it consistantly especially when you NEED to do it? Because that's what I'm after. Or do you just rely mostly on luck? If that's the case then you really can't do it consistantly and thus it's not worth attempting at all.

Because if someone has really mastered the cancels, I think it brings a whole new element to Falco's game. It's no longer easy or even plausible to try to punish his side Bs. For instance, a lot of people like to charge up smashes/other attacks while falco's off the edge hoping you'll run into them but mid-cancels would be enough to not only prevent this but also put you into a great position to punish this more heavily.

 

[Denzi]

I can cancel without ever having to mash. there's practically no way to get the one you want 100% of the time, but with an understanding of the timing it isn't all too hard to get at least a cancel.

I can fairly consistently get short and long cancels on recovery, but there's always that one situation where it doesn't do what you want. You mentioned mid cancels on recovery, and those are actually the most dangerous to go for, because if you're just a frame off in either direction you'll either fall to your death (short) or head straight into their attack (long).

The best way to recover is to mix things up with a combination of cancels + different heights, both to give your opponent more areas to have to try to cover and to give yourself some room for when you do mess up (because it will happen; no one can be that precise).


EDIT: And as far as the triple lasers go, I wasn't talking about walljumped, B-reversed lasers. I was talking about let go of the ledge, jump toward the stage, and fire 3 lasers, the last being silent.

 

[zmx]

I can cancel without ever having to mash. there's practically no way to get the one you want 100% of the time, but with an understanding of the timing it isn't all too hard to get at least a cancel.

I can fairly consistently get short and long cancels on recovery, but there's always that one situation where it doesn't do what you want. You mentioned mid cancels on recovery, and those are actually the most dangerous to go for, because if you're just a frame off in either direction you'll either fall to your death (short) or head straight into their attack (long).

The best way to recover is to mix things up with a combination of cancels + different heights, both to give your opponent more areas to have to try to cover and to give yourself some room for when you do mess up (because it will happen; no one can be that precise).


EDIT: And as far as the triple lasers go, I wasn't talking about walljumped, B-reversed lasers. I was talking about let go of the ledge, jump toward the stage, and fire 3 lasers, the last being silent.

Well I know doing any technique flawlessly 100% of the time is impossible. Even the easiest techniques you can mess up from time to time. But I just wanted confirmation that it is possible to do it consistant ENOUGH that it's viable in high level play. And now I've got it. Thanks.

I guess I just have to keep practicing. God, falco is such a technical character it's ridiculous. Can't do his BDacus consistantly either. Even the proper SHDL (where the second laser is short enough to hit the shortest characters,) is fairly tricky for me. Regular dacus I can do consistantly thanks to how I've set up controls (R to attack).

But that's kind of what I like about falco. He has an insane amount of depth.

I really don't think you could argue that any other character has viable techniques that require more tech skill except maybe ice climbers.

 

[Denzi]

I really don't think you could argue that any other character has viable techniques that require more tech skill except maybe ice climbers.

Well actually I'm pretty sure Yoshi wins the "who has the toughest techs" game.

 

[zmx]

I don't know a whole a lot about yoshi. What ATs does he have that are more diifficult? Remember it also has to be useful. If it's something that is insanely hard to do but serves little purpose in comp. play then it really doesn't count.