Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[aqua421]

Is falco an easy enough character to pick up just to beat metaknight?

 

[BluB]

Is falco an easy enough character to pick up just to beat metaknight?

N o.

 

[-DR3W-]

Is falco an easy enough character to pick up just to beat metaknight?

Not sure if serious.

 

[Conviction]

Is falco an easy enough character to pick up just to beat metaknight?

Yes if they run of the stage and kill themselves three times. Falco can strike that type of fear.

 

[M@v]

Is falco an easy enough character to pick up just to beat metaknight?

It depends. If you want to utilize everything Falco has to offer, no. And usually you want everything vs mk.

Honestly the character that takes the least work to fight mk is mk. Not trolling.

 

[-DR3W-]

Such a sad sight.

I've never heard of one character influencing a competitive scene and metagame as much as Meta Knight has.
Too bad he broke the game. It'd be a lot more fun without that.

 

[Wilmenz]

How is Falco supposed to play against Olimar? i always get ***** in that match up >_<

 

[-DR3W-]

The game starts. He is going to start by plucking Pikmin and will probably go for some kind of grab/pivot grab/smash string at low %. So you could either take him by surprise while he's plucking Pikmin and (immediate aerial) phantasm right into him and catch him completely off-guard (most people expect a short hop double laser as soon as the game starts) but switch it up and you can definitely get a few hits. It works a lot, but don't do it too much or he'll know how to react.

Don't try too hard to grab. If you do get one, though, know how to chaingrab Olimar. I don't remember the specifics but I know it has to be running and you can do it at least 4 times. DEHF has a thread (that should be stickied) that I recommend checking out for specifics.

From personal experience, jab and ftilt really help when he's in your face. Jab moreso because it's so fast. It helps with the matchup a lot. You'll see.

When you're in kill percent, stay AWAY and play extremely safe, because he is gonna try to get that kill (usmash more commonly, but dsmash or throwing will usually do). I played an Olimar yesterday and I was at high % and got 90% off his second stock only because I played stupidly safe and avoided those 3 things. That was my entire game for a few minutes.

More later.

 

[AndGravy]

i gave someone else a couple tips against olimar a bit ago that i've picked up

Jab all the time. When laser camping, if he tries throwing pikmin at you, you should either shine the pikmin back at him, or jab/nair them off the moment they latch on to you. If you juggling him, try to bait his whistle. Personally, i love upthrowing after 60% in this matchup because his aerial mobility isn't that good and bair/uair are nice on him.

He can be chain grabbed up to 7 times (DEHF's CG thread).

Watch out for his grab at low percents because he can chain a couple dthrows and then follow up with upsmash and uair for a semi-hard to escape 60% combo. His uair and nair can be DIed fairly well.

Watch out for the stupidly big range on his upsmash. It goes pretty far out horizontally as well as vertically, especially yellow pikmin. Dont phantasm too much or he will just start fsmashing when he predicts it. Also, dont try to side dodge fsmash because the duration is huge.

For kills: your best bet is to get him offstage and edge hog. If he upb's early, you will have edge hogged. If he waits, you can get back on the stage before you get stage spiked. If he upb's and gets on the stage, you can easily get a hit. But watch out for if he finishes his upb just before he touches the ground, because it will autocancel.

Much of it is the same as drew said, but i also added some things to keep in mind if you cant manage to keep away and camp. Two other things to keep in mind. Olimar is actually heavier than falco, and his smashes can kill as early as 80-90%, so it is much easier for him to kill you than it is for you to kill him (unless you edge hog).

 

[-DR3W-]

Ah, baiting the whistle is a good one. When Olimar is falling down vertically or diagonally, wait for the whistle then bair him off the stage is usually rewarding as hell. That's just an example, do what seems fit for the moment.

 

[Wilmenz]

Oh alright thank you o:

 

[T3h Albino]

Is there anyway to charge bdacus without changing your control settings?

 

[BluB]

Hold A directly after inputing the second c-up.

 

[T3h Albino]

SwagSwag thanks BluB you da bess fam~

 

[Deathfox30]

You can charge it by holding Z too. It's the easiest way IMO.

 

[earla]

anyone got falco's LEDGE OPTIONS frame data and THROW frame data?

 

[-DR3W-]

We need to either find the old frame data thread or make a new one, and sticky it. The fact that people have to ask for such basic info is ridiculous, lol

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I did some of that ages ago. I put it in 3gods thread as a post.

This is a rough estimation though. I did all the counting myself with a frame by frame advance code. The duration of each article I am certain about, it's the duration of things like vulnerability and invulnerability that might be a bit off.

Spoiler

Under 100%
GU 34 frames; invicible frames 1-30
GUA 54 frames; invicible frames 1-23; hits on frame 25;
Roll 49 frames; invicible frames 1-36

Over 100%
GU 59 frames; invicible frames 1-55
GUA 69 frames; 1-16 invicible frames; hits on frame 56; there might be more invicible frames.
Roll 79 frames; 1-63 invicible frames

fire bird to ledge, then the next time you land is incurs more landing lag than normal, called special landing lag
Special landing lag 19 frames

45 frames from time of jump input, in the air of SH, landing lag.
78 frames from time of jump input, in the air of SH, and landing lag.

7 frames until airborn. Landing lag hard is 4 frames, landing lag soft is 2 frames.
6 frame window to SH

Adding more stuff shortly.

Under 100%. Soonest time you can perform an action from a ledge jump is frame 16. The other 15 frames are spent trying to get-up over the ledge.
Over 100%. Frame 21. Other 20 frames are spent trying to get up from the ledge.

After testing various characters at different percents and decay(?) of lasers, a character was in hitstun for 9 frames always. To get a lagless laser, you must start animation of B move on frame 35. At pointblank range, pointblank lagless laser -> usmash is one frame too slow. It can be powershielded. Pointblank lagless laser to jab, ftilt or dash attack are true combos. Even if not at pointblank range, lasers can travel for a few frames before hitting someone, which will make up for a difference in landing lag falco incurs doing SH(D)L. So, at ftilt range, lagless laser -> jab/ftilt/dash attack are true combos.

 

[-DR3W-]

A bit off? Unacceptable.

You are banished.

 

[MARLX]

We need to either find the old frame data thread or make a new one, and sticky it. The fact that people have to ask for such basic info is ridiculous, lol

A new one because the data would be updated less mistakes and start with somthing fresh. Also who is going to be in charge of this thread?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Azula why are you mad?

 

[M@v]

Do we still have the link to Falco's frame data? And is it up to date?

 

[teluoborg]

1- yes we still have it : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187546
2- It's not up to date cause it was done with regular fighting game frame data in mind. Srsly who gives a damn about frame adv on shield ?
3- it lacks things that would be useful, like IASA of aerials, frame advantage on hit of Jab 1, Jab 2, Utilt and throws.
4- You might want to read this : http://opensa.dantarion.com/autoframe/FitFalco.php

 

[StarFruit]

Question for almost any falco. With the GC controller is there a recommended setup or advantages to changing the setup. I know that ikes like to have more than one jab for the jab chain and many other characters do stuff like that. If anybody uses something other than the normal setup i would like to hear about it. I can bdacus easily with the normal So keep that in mind. Boost grab isnt consistent with my normal setup so far. Also tap jump or no tap jump... Thanks to autocorrect for making this easy.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

2- It's not up to date cause it was done with regular fighting game frame data in mind. Srsly who gives a damn about frame adv on shield ?

Dude, frame adv on shield is kind of a big deal. A well known example: Fresh silent laser on shield has enough frame adv on shield to guarantee a grab.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Do we still have the link to Falco's frame data? And is it up to date?

What Teluoborg said.

Question for almost any falco. With the GC controller is there a recommended setup or advantages to changing the setup. I know that ikes like to have more than one jab for the jab chain and many other characters do stuff like that. If anybody uses something other than the normal setup i would like to hear about it. I can bdacus easily with the normal So keep that in mind. Boost grab isnt consistent with my normal setup so far. Also tap jump or no tap jump... Thanks to autocorrect for making this easy.

There are plenty of advantages (I would love this feature in melee actually if it was thought of by that time >_>). Customize it how you would, it simply takes getting used to any changes you make. Naturally, everyone is used to playing the GC controller with the default setting, so you should keep it as close to that as possible. Mostly because it makes it easier to get accustomed too.

Here are some things to consider.
C-stick set to smashes makes aerials much easier to use in conjuction with the control stick. Imagine trying to jump forward while using Bair. You have to move the control stick forward, backward, then forward again to maintain your forward motion. That momentary backward motion for the Bair prevents you from going nearly as far forward typically unless you move very quickly.

Using two/three fingers for an input is nearly always faster than using a single finger. For example, IAP with y to jump into b for special is slower than doing y to jump and right shoulder to jump.

The left and right triggers can be used to delay your timing sense you have to press your finger further than the other buttons.
So just think about what you want to accomplish and make the changes to help you get them done most efficiently.

1- yes we still have it : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187546
2- It's not up to date cause it was done with regular fighting game frame data in mind. Srsly who gives a damn about frame adv on shield ?
3- it lacks things that would be useful, like IASA of aerials, frame advantage on hit of Jab 1, Jab 2, Utilt and throws.
4- You might want to read this : http://opensa.dantarion.com/autoframe/FitFalco.php

You have convinced me to start making a new thread on all of this. Probably start getting to work on parts of it tonight. I know there are a few more things that would be useful occasionally like smash attacks have different charge release times. Or some move has invincible parts like our own dsmash.

 

[StarFruit]

Thanks for the info but I don't think i was clear on wanting specifics. The c stick air thing is interesting. I'm very abnormal with my basic controls. I use x to jump... Don't even touch the left trigger... Bdacus with two upsmashes... I SHDL funny... I'm looking for an actual different setup and whether tap jump should remain on or off... The Info you gave me was very helpful

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Alright.

Keep jump set to X. Turn your Y into Special. Keep A to attacks.
(Now you can slide your thumb easily and more quickly into a special or attack.)
Use R as shield and Z as grab. C-stick to smashes.
Set tap jump off. L and B never have to be used.

 

[StarFruit]

Okay thanks I will try that out. Another question... Is dash attack - pivot - grab the only way to boost grab? If it is what would the right hand do. I have my thumb on the c stick and index on Z button. I usually use my index finger for something like a down smash or dattack but for a boost grab it's a bigger leap. I get it 75% of the time but it's not reliable enough. It's the one AT I really struggle with so some advice on that would be helpful. And woow motherloving autocorrect has me going insannnee. That and south haven's Suckish wifi... SrslyMichiganidontknowhowyoudo....

 

[teluoborg]

I think someone once said the best configuration to perform all of the ATs was something like
R (or L depending of what button you don't use to shield) on Attack
Z on jump
X or Y on grab

I agree with it, even if I don't use it.

 

[M@v]

I have R as Special. Its the only special Falco control I have. Its for IAPs, and makes IAPs easier for me to cancel consistently. I also have up taunt set to jump, but that's for fox and SHTLS.

 

[Teran]

The only change I made was R for attack for longer regular DACUS.

Sliding from Y to B is fine for me with IAP and Z is just fine for grab.

 

[AndGravy]

I use several customs, but i jump with X and have Y on special for IAP. It's kinda funny because i developed a habit of using B for lasers and some other characters specials, but i almost always use Y for special recoveries. This habit gets me killed a lot when i troll on melee with my homies.

 

[Boofy!]

StarFruit please change your avatar :o

 

[Teran]

For Xeylode. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=159696

This is weird though I could've sworn this had all characters.

If you want I can test sometime for the whole cast it shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[StarFruit]

Boofy...no u. Thanks for the advice...I will try the y special when I get j
home...tap jump off is gonna be difficult to get used to

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@Starfruit: You typically used tap jump? I made the suggestion for it to be off since I figured you used x to jump most often and never used tap jump. Tap jump off is mostly to make sure you never jump accidentally if you were trying to DI, utilt, usmash, etc. with the control stick. If you use it, keep it on.

For Xeylode. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=159696

This is weird though I could've sworn this had all characters.

If you want I can test sometime for the whole cast it shouldn't be too difficult.

Oh, I remember this link it was in the compendium thread. I guess we never did have a KO chart or anything like that lol

I was mostly wondering if we had ever made a KO chart before. So you do not have to go through the trouble to if you don't want too. If you did it gives us another contribution to the Falco boards

 

[Teran]

I dunno man, I almost feel like I should since I remembered wrong. Plus the fact that I haven't really contributed that significantly for like 2 years!

Honestly a KO chart really won't take that long, I mean without DI that is, an optimal DI test would take 2 people and dedication and **** that you can just kinda add percentage to account for it.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

It's not hard to throw in proper DI by yourself if you slow the game down through Slow-Mo Mode. But, I always thought the earliest you could legitimately kill someone was more important anyway.

There hasn't really been much to do with Falco anyway. He still plays the same and the rest of it is the player making the right calls. I think the only *new* thing I learned recently was the fact that aerials autocancel in like the first 3 frames of the move. Probably to prevent people accidentally going into landing lag from a laggy aerial really close to the ground.

Here is my quesiton. Teran, would you mind being referred to as Mr.T?

 

[Teran]

Doing moves and optimal DI is kind of a hassle so whatever so far I'm doing 0 DI and momentum cancelling and counting it when they hit the blast zone.

Yeah tbh Falco developed really fast it was pretty cool actually, but now it feels weird because he hasn't changed much.

Oh and I dunno Mr. T sounds kinda weird but if it makes you happy whatever I don't mind.