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[Cross.]

Any tips for starting out matches? How do you guys generally start of your matches?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Laser or SHDL, unless its against GW, then I IAP approach into grab/attack/shield/whatever

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Any tips for starting out matches? How do you guys generally start of your matches?

For me, it is entirely dependent upon who I am facing and the stage. Typically, I look at what character they have and what they would typically open up with. Characters that do not really have a fast projectile or some method to avoid the lasers such as ducking, reflecting or absorbing I will almost always open up with Lasers: grounded or SHDL. Which is pretty much the entire cast.

Those with fast projectiles or a method to avoid the lasers I will mix it up a bit more.
-Someone like Rob can use his laser right away, so I might want to try to reflect it myself.
-Someone like kirby can duck the lasers right away in which case they probably won't be ready for an IAP, so I can narrow the gap quickly and grab or AAA them.
-Someone like fox can either spam lasers or shine at the start in which case I feel it is the best option to shine, IAP his shine or spamming lasers or try a SHDL > shine incase he does shine back.

So those are just a few examples of the options you have, but probably an important piece is repeative play and surprise. IAP is risky, but when used when the person is surprised is a great way to start a match. Lasers are best for gaining control of the match right away. Shine gives protection against other projectiles. A good mixture of them all in a set of matches can help set up the next match for a good start.

For example, my first match against someone I have never played before (say they are using lucas), I open up lasers and they don't start using the DownB right away. Next match, I start up with lasers again and find they learned to open up with the DownB. After that match is the next, and I attempt to IAP at them they DownB as I hoped they would which leads them stuck in the frames of there attack and I start attacking them with whatever I feel like using.

Now, if you are dealing with a vet player than they will know that Falco's almost alwasy open up with Lasers and try to do something aganist in which case you can try the first match to IAP, it is usually unexpected in the first match.

Edit: Wow, I typed all that on a simple matter of what to open up with -_-

 

[SuSa]

As long as they don't tech it it seems as if it'd work.

They would have to know it's coming or meant to have airdodged off the platform to tech it.

It's almost instant.

I'll give it a shot next time it happens, and hope I don't mess it up.

 

[.AC.]

how do you guys avoid getting 0-high damage on FD by snake?

 

[SuSa]

Phrase that so it makes sense?

 

[.AC.]

ooops misworded it

anyways when falco gets grabbed by snake on fd,snake can chaingrab him until they reach near the edge,then he dthrows,he shields,if falco stands up normally,doing a get up attack or roll towards the edge you will get grabbed again,if you roll backwards he has enough time to turn around and grab you and chaingrab you until you reach the other edge.

 

[SuSa]

You must really suck at avoiding the tech chase.

Stop being so predictable if that's happening to you. It's not a chaingrab, it's a tech-chase.

 

[.AC.]

You must really suck at avoiding the tech chase.

Stop being so predictable if that's happening to you. It's not a chaingrab, it's a tech-chase.

wow way to be helpful,are you aware i was refering to the grab-release chaingrab?
also im pretty sure that a dthrow near the edge is a guaranteed grab or tilt.

 

[SuSa]

Wow, someone besides me utilizing the grab release chaingrab? Sorry, not used to anyone but me actually using it.

When you are against the ledge, if you roll away it's a free tilt. If you do a getup attack its a free tilt, if you do a getup YOU MAY GET AWAY if the snake doesn't react fast enough (for the most part we don't expect this) and if you roll behind us, it's also a free tilt and MAYBE a regrab (I haven't tested that last part).

So really, you need to decide on whats the better of two evils. Getting grabbed again, or getting tilted.


Sorry about my last post. Was not expecting you to be talking about the Grab release....

 

[.AC.]

well yeah i have a problem miswording things,the problem is that if depending where he grabs you,at the end you will land too close to the edge where even iy you roll away it will get you nowhere,as a matter of fact sometimes you will land in the edge where he has another relatively obscure and unknown dthrow infinite,so if you land to close to the edge he will get a re-grab regardles of what you do until you roll back,where he will grab release you until you reach the other edge,either way each grab is around 50 % depending on how fast you break out,and as for some reason he can utilt you mid roll after each dthrow it only takes him between 2-3 grabs to ko,and thats if he didnt land near enough the ledge to regrab you.i guess ill just avoid fd from now on as i doubt it can be done as good on other stages.

 

[SuSa]

We know about the dthrow infinite, it's not an infinite and it's not unknown.

FF or bair/nair (fastest aerials) and you can get out. Even if he buffers it.

However we CAN utilt AFAIK no matter what you do. (MAY be able to FF and avoid it...)

Also mash faster, we should only be able to get 4-5 pummels in at reasonable %'s. Also CP stages with platforms for you to land on *coughs* Battlefield *coughs*

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

First off, observation: SuSa with a wii like 20 times more active than one with no wii.

The only time I ever use the grab release on falco is when I actually think about doing it which isn't very often considering I know very few falcos and grabbing one is a pain.

Question regarding the Boost Smash which I have been meaning to ask, but keep forgetting to.

I had heard something about an input with the shield button that extended the length of the boost smash, was this true? And what were the lengths typically aquired?

We know about the dthrow infinite, it's not an infinite and it's not unknown.

FF or bair/nair (fastest aerials) and you can get out. Even if he buffers it.

However we CAN utilt AFAIK no matter what you do. (MAY be able to FF and avoid it...)

Also mash faster, we should only be able to get 4-5 pummels in at reasonable %'s. Also CP stages with platforms for you to land on *coughs* Battlefield *coughs*

Was the Dthrow on the edge > jab from snake unavoidable against Falco? And I thought that a person could only get a safe pummel in every 50% or so.

So under 50% no pummels, 50%-100% 1 pummel, 100%-150% 2 pummels, etc.

 

[SuSa]

Grabbing one is not a pain, and I know very few Falco's (that are good)

I haven't heard about the shield thing so can't answer.

Pro Tip:

Being able to test things and observe and care more = more activity. ;o




ANYWAYS:

Dash attack, 43%, D3, it spiked him. <_< I'll be testing with those %'s. 99.99999% sure it's completely DI dependant.

Does anyone want to explain to me why things like Snake's utilt can SPIKE people at certain %'s? I don't understand..

 

[.AC.]

yeah ill just avoid fd,as its horrible against snake,that is if at the end of the grab release you land too close to the edge where he can shield and cover all your options usually regrabing ,i guess ill just cp bf or something.

as for the utilt spike,maybe it has to do with the disjointed hitbox,or naybe its just a "sonic usmash" like thing

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I have never encountered a spiking Uptilt 0.o (SuSa if you are upto it perhaps we could battle, I need to work on becoming one of those "good falcos" {along with a good snake, but that's a different matter -_-})

CP JJ with Falco instead of BF, if you can though.

 

[SuSa]

I've encounted some weird spikes.

I had Ness's uair spike me as well.

Also I can't Brawl right now. 1:15am and my dad and his girlfriend are asleep in the room with the wii -_-

Any smart Snake would ban JJ against Falco..


@ AC

It's only certain %'s and it's all DI based.

Snake can 'spike' himself from 0-30% (IIRC) by letting a grenade blow him up and hold down.

(Shield drop 2 grenades, SH c4 and blow it up and hold down. You can tech this as well....)


Just to name a few:

I've seen Pit's fair spike.
Marth's fair spike.
Marth's uair spike.
Marth's fsmash spike (yes spike..) (and I teched it in place <3 and punished him)
Falco's bair spike
Falco's usmash spike...
King DeDeDe's utilt spike...
Snake's utilt Spike
Link's utilt spike
Wolf's usmash spike
Wario's utilt spike

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I've encounted some weird spikes.

I had Ness's uair spike me as well.

Also I can't Brawl right now. 1:15am and my dad and his girlfriend are asleep in the room with the wii -_-

Any smart Snake would ban JJ against Falco..

Providing they know you will be using Falco. If you use multiple people it is sort of hard to tell. I have started liking the idea of using MK, Snake and Falco to help cover everything.

So far I have had problems with characters such as I cannot play falco against MK, but I can with Snake.

I have a theory on the spiking thing. But does the thing on Auto DI exist or am I just imagining things?

=============
I've seen Pit's fair spike.
Marth's fair spike.
Marth's uair spike.
Marth's fsmash spike (yes spike..) (and I teched it in place <3 and punished him)
Falco's bair spike
Falco's usmash spike...
King DeDeDe's utilt spike...
Snake's utilt Spike
Link's utilt spike
Wolf's usmash spike
Wario's utilt spike

A few of those I can imagine spiking, it would involve a combination of DIs. First off, I think for something like those attacks you can DI them as close as you can do the ground for a trajectory and SDI yourself in that direction as well causing the knockback to drastically change course and appear as a spike when it's really not a spike.

Something like Marths' Fsmash if tipped might have that effect. If you DI the tracjetory to send you as far downward as possible and mix in SDI you would hit the ground.

This idea is probably wrong anyway. If you could DI all those hits to get the desired effect you could live to insane percents if you teched everything.

 

[SuSa]

I've had all of those happen to me.

I didn't SDI any of them, I just held down.

Also is it me, or can people like... Super-SDI Marth's tipped things? I've SDI'd from UNDERNEATH FD to ON TOP OF IT after being spiked by a Marth offstage.... and I've had it happen to me. <_<

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I think we have an explaination at any rate, something to do with DI.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Oh crap I has lots of reading/ testing to do...

 

[BleachigoZX]

Is it common knowledge that as an opponent is falling off a platform and you hit them with a laser, it knocks them onto the platform in a techable state that you can laser lock in?

This may be able to lead to a laser lock on platforms. pseudo-infinite (most likely di-able)

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232549


I have but, blah blah people don't listen.

 

[.AC.]

I've had all of those happen to me.

I didn't SDI any of them, I just held down.

Also is it me, or can people like... Super-SDI Marth's tipped things? I've SDI'd from UNDERNEATH FD to ON TOP OF IT after being spiked by a Marth offstage.... and I've had it happen to me. <_<

i remember seeing a thread a while back about this "cinematic hitlag" which includes moves like ganondorf´s jab,wolf´s ftilt,marth´s tippers among other moves that cannot be SDI´d,i think the thread had a list of those moves.

as for the other moves spiking,if you are close enough to the ground you can DI into the ground,usually looking like the move spiked.if you are talking about spiking someone offstage then i have no idea what it could be.

 

[SuSa]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232549


I have but, blah blah people don't listen.

That's not what I was talking about. I'm talking about:

Laser > They splat on the platform > laser lock away (you have to SHDL repeatingly) > get to other side and start pulling off the (pseudo?) infinite

Not:

Laser > they fall off the platform > laser lock if they don't tech

i remember seeing a thread a while back about this "cinematic hitlag" which includes moves like ganondorf´s jab,wolf´s ftilt,marth´s tippers among other moves that cannot be SDI´d,i think the thread had a list of those moves.

ASDI may play a factor then? Find the thread. I do think they can be SDI'd....

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I had heard something about an input with the shield button that extended the length of the boost smash, was this true? And what were the lengths typically aquired?

I havent heard anything about the shield button regarding boost smashes. Maybe your thinking of boosted pivot grabs, that can be done with dash -> downsmash -> back on control stick + shield

There are 3 lengths to falco's boost smash,

the longest length is dash attack + dashing upsmash length, which will make you travel 3/8 the length of FD. You need to do boost smash perfectly to do it

If you press the up + z or up + a a little late, you will have the length of a dash attack, which will travel 1/4 length of FD. I personally like this one as a follow up to down throw when they have too much damage to be cg'ed but not enough to be hit by the normal boost smash.

The third length is just the length of a dashing upsmash (1/8 length of FD), where you quickly do the dashing animation and immediately upsmashes. Its basically gatling combo without contact, i havent found any uses for this yet. It basically means you messed up and did the boost smash a little too slow.

 

[pure_awesome]

The SHDL Lock is an infinite. The Falco player can react to odd DI and vary the infinite accordingly without too much difficulty.

That being said, I don't understand how you're making them land on the platform with a laser, and can't picture what you're talking about.

 

[Notra]

which air moves of falco clashes w/ metas shuttle loop?

 

[Jon?]

which air moves of falco clashes w/ metas shuttle loop?

Bair that **** all day! I've played several good MKs at local tournies and Bair is the move that throws them off.

It doesn't clash btw. I beats out the Shuttle loop attack cancel or glide attack cancel.

 

[SuSa]

The SHDL Lock is an infinite. The Falco player can react to odd DI and vary the infinite accordingly without too much difficulty.

That being said, I don't understand how you're making them land on the platform with a laser, and can't picture what you're talking about.

I'll try and get a video or find a replay where I did it.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

which air moves of falco clashes w/ metas shuttle loop?

Don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure dair clashes too, but you would need to time it really well for it to hit

 

[Denzi]

Nair clashes with Glide Attack.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Does Falco's CG work on YI? Or does the terrain mess that up?

 

[Denzi]

Does Falco's CG work on YI? Or does the terrain mess that up?

It works on everyone you can normally CG except maybe the ones you need to be frame perfect for.

Note that it will only mess with the CG when you're chaining downhill.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Alright, thanks sir.

 

[Jon?]

So, I just got back from a local tourny. I was able to handle the MK, Wario, and Snake matchups pretty fairly. I played someone I knew who would spam rolls with Lucario. I've never fought this type of playstyle before and Falco is my only singles main character. What would you guys do to punish roll spam?

I would try to camp him out with lasers, but Lucario's roll covers so much distance, that it is not very affective.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

So, I just got back from a local tourny. I was able to handle the MK, Wario, and Snake matchups pretty fairly. I played someone I knew who would spam rolls with Lucario. I've never fought this type of playstyle before and Falco is my only singles main character. What would you guys do to punish roll spam?

I would try to camp him out with lasers, but Lucario's roll covers so much distance, that it is not very affective.

I have faced that situation before and I found a method that seems to work. I think facing someone that spams rolls a good thing to encounter as I feel it really teaches you about spacing.

A couple of things you can do. I will occasionally try a BPG going away from the person, if you did it at the time they would normally try to roll behind you then you get a good grab in. I'm pretty sure that once this happens a few times they would be more wary of trying to roll behind you. I punished someone like this the first stock and they learned to not to ever do that again for the rest of the match.

Another thing to try is after you have tried an attack (typically an aerial attack that missed) just walk or move backwards from the person and try to attack with something. One of the few things I will try is Dair > walk away > fsmash or Dair > walk away > bair.

All those methods may not work at hitting the person, but if you space everything correctly than you will be putting out attacks that are relatively safe and will punish any attempts to try to get behind you from rolling.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Metaknight's glide attack is an aerial so it doesn't actually have "priority." Any move that's long enough with clash.

 

[Cross.]

hey guys just a quick question. Marth can UpB out of a running chaingrab right? I played a marth today and did the run running chain grab on him and he was saying how he was spamming upB but it didnt work.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Tell him to get better . . . .

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Were you playing on wifi in lag or something that UpB never worked?

UpB will always ruin the CG that falco has after 18%. It doesn't matter if you are walking or running.