Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[BacklashMarth]

Ok
i have some questions obivously.
I was just wondering what good combos marth players can do in order to damage rack quickly. I know aobut the down thorw to f smash. but is fair to dtilt good?
and other things i should know about?

Not really. Marth has very little in terms of combos. You have to read your opponent and follow up accordingly. The only really reliable combo that u didnt mention was dancing blade XD. Also from my exerience, dtilt to dancing blade usually works a lot better.

 

[Sk8TR]

but which of the 3 differt side b's are the best to use? up n or d?

 

[Remzi]

Side normally, Up to kill or to start a juggle, down to shield poke (use sparingly)

 

[Inle~Orichas]

After recent experimentation, it would appear that Marth has the ability to grab release MK into a tipper D-air spike. I kid you not. However there is one catch. It has to be on Yoshi's island. (I suspect its because of the sloped ground near the ledge, which either slightly speeds up Marth's Dash, or angles Marth's jump to be closer to the vulnerable MK)

I have no video evidence, but then in the case that it proves to be false, I have a hypothetical question.

(Does that make Yoshi's island a CP, or is it disadvantageous enough for the Grab Release option listed not worth the overall risk?)
OMIT above... Turns out it works on more than just one stage...

My question in that case is that does anyone care to test this out? Just to verify...

 

[Kishin]

Need help on that defensive metaknight match-up again... I can't seem to beat it. Is there no way to win against a defensive metaknight? I caught on to his shields early on this time and grabbed more and it worked for like the first stock.

This time it wasn't very close though, I got 2 stocked.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Need help on that defensive metaknight match-up again... I can't seem to beat it. Is there no way to win against a defensive metaknight? I caught on to his shields early on this time and grabbed more and it worked for like the first stock.

This time it wasn't very close though, I got 2 stocked.

Your opponent is simply better then you probably. You might have to get a vid up to get a more pinpoint response. However, keep working on the match-up and your observational skills.

 

[KRiMz0N]

Need help on that defensive metaknight match-up again... I can't seem to beat it. Is there no way to win against a defensive metaknight? I caught on to his shields early on this time and grabbed more and it worked for like the first stock.

This time it wasn't very close though, I got 2 stocked.

see post above

does it work on pictochat too? also, get proof foo

Your opponent's character is simply better then you the world probably.

revised

 

[Inle~Orichas]

@Krimzon: actually with (even more) recent testing not only does it work on pictochat (Not very well because of the small segment to jump off of to get optimum height) but it works on any surface where you grab release from the higher ground then run to lower ground and then jump. So far the best example has been on Lylat Cruise when the angle is pivoted to be even sharper. I swear I have a 66% success rate on Lylat Cruise when the angle is favorable.

I do have a replay where I pull it off on a lvl 9 CPU (the replay was made when I first discovered this, in fact the Dair was inputted by accident). I however do not have a capture card to record it onto my computer. Anyone is welcome to try testing it out themselves...

 

[illinialex24]

@Krimzon: actually with (even more) recent testing not only does it work on pictochat (Not very well because of the small segment to jump off of to get optimum height) but it works on any surface where you grab release from the higher ground then run to lower ground and then jump. So far the best example has been on Lylat Cruise when the angle is pivoted to be even sharper. I swear I have a 66% success rate on Lylat Cruise when the angle is favorable.

I do have a replay where I pull it off on a lvl 9 CPU (the replay was made when I first discovered this, in fact the Dair was inputted by accident). I however do not have a capture card to record it onto my computer. Anyone is welcome to try testing it out themselves...

Don't test stuff on level 9's, they are terrible testing tools. Too easy to escape from it.

 

[Inle~Orichas]

You misunderstand. I didn't test on LVL 9 CPUs, that was where the initial combo happened. To test, I had someone else buffer an AD and D.I away from the D-air. Same effect, only a little more difficult seeing as MK's AD is faster than usual. Besides, the difficulty isn't in hitting the enemy fast, it's hitting the enemy at all... The distance covered needs to be as much as possible without sacrificing speed. Once you get the necessary distance, speed is no longer an issue.

If you think my testing method is unreliable, you can confirm the authenticity yourself.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

If you test on computers at all, you've got some issues to work out. The end.

 

[theeboredone]

Hey guys, just recently started applying Marth as a secondary and I've got a few nooby questions.

1. How does Marth's throw to f-smash work? Is it f-throw and c-stick forward? I always seem to miss on that...does it depend on the weight of the character?

2. What is the best way to play marth in your opinion? Defensively or approaching and being aggressive?

3. How does the CG on the earthbound characters work?

4. Do you set C-stick to tilts so it's easier to try and spike with Marth's d-air?

 

[KRiMz0N]

jumping onto snake's mines and countering before you hit results in a massive knockback counter. and it's fun

 

[Remzi]

Hey guys, just recently started applying Marth as a secondary and I've got a few nooby questions.

1. How does Marth's throw to f-smash work? Is it f-throw and c-stick forward? I always seem to miss on that...does it depend on the weight of the character?

Depends on the character. For some it's fthrow > fsmash, for some its fthrow > stutter step fsmash, for some its dthrow > fsmash, and for some it can't be done at all.

2. What is the best way to play marth in your opinion? Defensively or approaching and being aggressive?

Safely approaching, though it really depends on the matchup.

3. How does the CG on the earthbound characters work?

Grab and pummel, once you let go you can regrab and repeat the process. However, if they use EIDI, you have to dash grab after each release. You get a free dsmash also, after each grab release if you choose to do that rather than regrab.

4. Do you set C-stick to tilts so it's easier to try and spike with Marth's d-air?

I prefer to have C-stick for smashes. It's personal preference. as long as you can use the c-stick for aerials it doesn't really matter. Spiking is not a huge part of Marths game, and setting c-stick to tilts doesn't make it a whole lot easier anyways.

Replies in orange.

 

[KRiMz0N]

all spiking is really is showboating, unless you do it when they're on the edge or when they're swimming. so yeah don't worry about that

and cg on erfbound = infinite grab release, last i knew

 

[Remzi]

all spiking is really is showboating, unless you do it when they're on the edge or when they're swimming. so yeah don't worry about that

and cg on erfbound = infinite grab release, last i knew

lol neither of those are true at all

 

[KRiMz0N]

well no. i was sort of trolling

as for the infinite grab release thing i just heard that somewhere, i wasn't sure of it and never really needed to be sure of it

 

[Shaya]

In relation to Metaknight's Grab Release to spike proposition:

Metaknight Grab Release

Metaknight's Lag: 50 frames
Marth's Lag: 29 frames
Buffer Dash Window: 2 frame (i.e. input on the 28/29th frame to start a dash at 30; any input before that will be considered just walking).
Advantage: +21

Marth's Jump: 6 frames.
Can cancel any dash without lag.
You can buffer any aerial from frames 1-4, to start on frame 6. Moves buffered on 5 will be ignored.
i.e. A fair can start on frame 9.

Down Air:
Sh + Buffer = Hit on frame 11. As Metaknight can only be invincible from frame 53, the latest possible time is frame 41.

~On final destination, with perfect precise mother clucking timing, the first frame of dair will NOT reach Metaknight (and this isn't included the 2-3~ frames of aerial movement MK has [which luckily isn't much]), as metaknight horizontally infront and vertically above dair's range by approximately ONE ****ING FRAME (in terms of how much Marth can move/rise). This is because MK's air dodge frames 1-2 have him move JUST OUT OF RANGE of your dair.

In conclusion, slanted stages such as Yoshi's Island Brawl may allow you the extra height needed to HIT metaknight if you were to LIFT OFF THE GROUND at a slightly raised angle. So yes, it's perhaps possible, if you are still doing the dashing reasonably perfect, you don't have much room for error either way, and I'd say the slant would -max- give you a 1-3 frame leeway.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

all spiking is really is showboating, unless you do it when they're on the edge or when they're swimming. so yeah don't worry about that

What? Spiking is an easy way to kill... Lol if you can pull it off that is.

 

[KRiMz0N]

What? Spiking is an easy way to kill... Lol if you can pull it off that is.

i was half replying to the post above me which said that spiking was not a huge part of marth's game

 

[Nightshine]

Sup guys,

I just read a thread in tactical discussion about Character Board Alliances and I started to think what other characters for competitive double play compliment Marth well. Do any of you guys have ideas?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226576


Heres a link to the thread if you guys want to read it.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

M k.

Both of you can gimp, he can get more of the kills while you rack up damage, and you can set each other up well.

 

[Inle~Orichas]

@Shaya: Wow... that's far more detail I had on this subject. I was already aware of the literally impossible to spike on flat terrain, although I had no idea it was that close!

In your opinion, would you say this tactic is worthwhile using, (seeing how it would kill much sooner than a DS or tipper Fair or N-air) despite the difficulty?

Thanks for that btw.

Another question on the subject. I'm wondering if dashing and then jumping on a slant gives you a similar boost to when you FF onto a slant, or if your jump is subject to the angle at which the floor below you is at.

Does the slant alter your jump in some way, or increase your momentum because you're moving downhill?

 

[Remzi]

@Shaya:

Good ****.
Seems insanely difficult to pull off. Probably only possible on YI and Lylat.

 

[Inle~Orichas]

@BengalsRZ: Works on any surface that slopes downward, so pictochat, some areas on Delfino Plaza, Some areas on PS1. The easiest is Lylat Cruise when the angle you're working on is leaning to the direction you're moving. (if you're attempting it on the left side, it's easier to do when the ship is tilting left and vice versa). I was able to continuously succeed, so I suspect the angle has a larger effect than you may suspect.

Nonetheless, ridiculously difficult technique to pull off.

 

[Shaya]

You may be able to reach meta because let's say Flat Stage's height = 0.
Yoshi's Island "Mole Hill" height = 3.

Marth's Jump (at the 6th frame after take off) height = 10

(approximate numbers)

Meaning flat stage you'd be at a height 10, while if you jumped from the mole hill you'd be at 13 in the SAME AMOUNT OF TIME. To further note, this means that Marth must be on the "0 height" ground when he releases meta to take advantage of the hill.

All this and more when Shaya releases his "The ADVANCED Marth Guide to the Universe, i.e. shaya's protips".

 

[Inle~Orichas]

@Shaya: Interesting. Out of curiousity, did you have those numbers one page back before I had posted the technique?

 

[Shaya]

Yes Inle, I did.

 

[clowsui]

falco is bad on japes vs snake >__>

 

[Inle~Orichas]

Impressive. I'll be sure to read The ADVANCED Marth Guide to the Universe when its released!

 

[illinialex24]

Ulevo had one but he deleted all his guides for some reason.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Shaya technical data crunching for Marth is too win. I'd like to see this guide aswell =]

 

[Shaya]

Early bird proptip:

From what I've been able to see so far, every character you fthrow in this game gives you a nice frame advantage.

EXCEPT FOR MOTHER ****ING KING DEDEDE. Who if you fthrow has the advantage on you past 15% ish.

 

[KRiMz0N]

that's why you uthrow dedede

that's what i do anyway, results are pretty cute

 

[illinialex24]

Meh I like using a mix of F-throw, U-throw, and D-throw on most characters.

 

[Inle~Orichas]

Last question on the MK grab release to D-air spike with 'molehill' assistance:
(that's a mouthful)

If the MK doesn't see it coming, is it worthwhile to attempt?

 

[KRiMz0N]

if the mk doesn't see it coming there's a problem with that mk and you should exploit it until your hands bleed

 

[Shaya]

Using it is good and bad.

If you hit MK properly, he'll most likely not tech it, it's 14% damage (Fresh), and if you stay in the air until the lag on dair goes away, and then fast fall, you may have the opportunity to tech chase. A tech chase leading to possibly an fsmash, hyphen smash (very good damage), dancing blade, or maybe even another grab.

If you do it too slow and MK doesn't do anything in his massive buffer window, MK can land on the ground, which he will do at I believe frame 58, meaning when you dair him he will pop up and most likely have a large amount of time to hurt you.

I guess that isn't too bad, if he lands on the ground you will get the dair, but bleh.

 

[Inle~Orichas]

I think I'm confused here, (or maybe I've confused you) I was under the impression that this took place offstage, and that the reward would be a spike. What situation are you referring to?

 

[Shaya]

Off stage is less likely to work against any player.

I was referring to if you attempted a release grab to spike on stage.

The bad of trying to spike to kill is eating a shuttle loop to the god **** face.