Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Go and give him the correct things Junk, im still learning aswell.
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Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)
- Thread starter Pierce7d
- Start date
chaosscizzors
Smash Journeyman
ya no kidding, don't leave me hanging bro lol.
Shaya PROTIP:
FAST FALL UAIRS
FAST FAST FAST FALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
IT WILL BE SO FAST, NOT EVEN IKE'S JAB COULD RESPOND.
IT WILL BE LIKE YOU'RE PLAYING CAPTAIN FALCON
IN MELEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
UAIR TO UPSMASH UAIR TO UAIR UAIR TO NAIR UAIR TO UNTIPPRED UAIR TO DAIRRRRRRRRRRr.... UAIR TO TIPPAR FSMASH!!!!!!!!! (20-30% on some characters who DONT KNOW HOW TO DIIIIIIIIIII).
BRAWL, MELEE, BRAWL, MELEE, WHO NEEDS MELEE WHEN YOU CAN BOOST SMASHhhhhhhhhhhhhh?
*crickets*
FAST FALL UAIRS
FAST FAST FAST FALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
IT WILL BE SO FAST, NOT EVEN IKE'S JAB COULD RESPOND.
IT WILL BE LIKE YOU'RE PLAYING CAPTAIN FALCON
IN MELEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
UAIR TO UPSMASH UAIR TO UAIR UAIR TO NAIR UAIR TO UNTIPPRED UAIR TO DAIRRRRRRRRRRr.... UAIR TO TIPPAR FSMASH!!!!!!!!! (20-30% on some characters who DONT KNOW HOW TO DIIIIIIIIIII).
BRAWL, MELEE, BRAWL, MELEE, WHO NEEDS MELEE WHEN YOU CAN BOOST SMASHhhhhhhhhhhhhh?
*crickets*
No boost smashing, it is a lieeeeeeeeee
chaosscizzors
Smash Journeyman
OMFG CAAAAAPS
i have been working on FFing though and i'm getting better at it, but i still end up trying to FF too soon and mess up lol.
and wait a sec, Dair? seriously? sense when were we using Dair? =P
i have been working on FFing though and i'm getting better at it, but i still end up trying to FF too soon and mess up lol.
and wait a sec, Dair? seriously? sense when were we using Dair? =P
Got a problem with DAIR?
I DARE YOU TO TRY IT OUTTTTTTTTTTTTT
PIERCE WILL PIERCE YOU WITH HIS AWESOMENESS IF YOU DO NOT USE IT.
You do dairs on rising sh/full jumps, as the arc lasts for a while and has quite a nice range, good damage output untippered, and has very big shield knockback. You try and remain in the air until the dair lag runs out so you can maintain aerial movement.
Dair becomes really useful in some matchups where the opponent has great horizontal/ground control. LIKE THAT *** WOLF.
I DARE YOU TO TRY IT OUTTTTTTTTTTTTT
PIERCE WILL PIERCE YOU WITH HIS AWESOMENESS IF YOU DO NOT USE IT.
You do dairs on rising sh/full jumps, as the arc lasts for a while and has quite a nice range, good damage output untippered, and has very big shield knockback. You try and remain in the air until the dair lag runs out so you can maintain aerial movement.
Dair becomes really useful in some matchups where the opponent has great horizontal/ground control. LIKE THAT *** WOLF.
chaosscizzors
Smash Journeyman
well i was in the practice room thing for wi-fi once trying to land cancel some Dairs, i've just never seen it used before.
so what, sour spot an Uair, jump and Dair? it just sounds acward to me, but i'll try it none the less.
so what, sour spot an Uair, jump and Dair? it just sounds acward to me, but i'll try it none the less.
GPEternity
Smash Journeyman
Dair can be used if somebody is coming into the air after you and you want to try smacking their butts back down. edgehog and ledgehop into a dair to attempt to spike your opponents, doesn't work well to any extent but its there as a surprise if they mess up badly or something. the uair -> dair might work near an edge for a random spike but its situation at best. Dair is one of marth's lesser used moved for the reason that its slow and punishable, and doesn't have a lot of uses. so use it sparingly.
i believe Dair's don't cancel? not sure but i always have terrible landing lag when i use that thing and uairs cancel every time.
Marth is really hard to play over wifi because of lag. it screws with your spacing and timing, marth is not an easy character to learn because he has a small margin of error and you need to be on point. laggy wifi will not help you unless your playing with a fast connection with people in your imediate area where lag is less of an issue.
i believe Dair's don't cancel? not sure but i always have terrible landing lag when i use that thing and uairs cancel every time.
Marth is really hard to play over wifi because of lag. it screws with your spacing and timing, marth is not an easy character to learn because he has a small margin of error and you need to be on point. laggy wifi will not help you unless your playing with a fast connection with people in your imediate area where lag is less of an issue.
Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
You make it sound so broken up. Its more like:
sour spot u air, jum- D-AIR! Wham! MIRANDA!
chaosscizzors
Smash Journeyman
LOL well when you say it like that...
idk though, i'm guessing it'd only work around mid or higher percents sense Dair is so freaking laggy. why couldn't i just Uair them again if they're even close enough for something like that?
and spike with Dair? no, i've tried, screw that. if someone can pull off a spike in a real match then i'd give them props just for being crazy enough to go for it lol.
/me hates Dair...
Sour Uair to tippered dair is the most ultimate combo ever. Can do it on midweights as a natural combo till around 50%.
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
Can you chain it Shaya?
chaosscizzors
Smash Journeyman
natural combo, see now, i like the sound of that better than CAAAPS lol.
i must not be looking in the right places cause i thought there wasn't any good use for Dair. and i had a thought, natural combo, tippered Dair, could i do that off stage at all or no?
∫unk
Smash Master
---"2) Rolling. It useless."
It's not useless. Try running at someone then buffering a roll. Because opponents are so used to marth's spacing in front of them this is a great mixup but can only be sparingly used because marth's roll sucks.
---"3) Uair *****. Practice it with the C-Stick, this helps auto cancelling a lot."
Using the c-stick has nothing to do with auto-cancelling.
---"4) Lol I abuse it. On the Battlefield stage, and on Snake, it works great, practice it. You can also get a few surprised kills off of it. (around like 100 ~ 120%)"
Snake should never die anywhere near those percents by u-smash unless they have Reno DI.
Your trick shouldn't work particularly on snake's because it's not matchup specific and the trick shouldn't even work at all. I don't know why on battlefield it would work more but if you're standing and predicting an airdodge u-tilt is better if you're running and hitting people while they're on the platforms... they're just being dumb.
Nowadays u-smash is used to punisher off a prediction and also as an out of shield option.
---"5) Jab should be use when the opponent is in your face. Two jabs will do the trick, then follow up. FTilt is for short hoppers."
f-tilt pretty much sucks because if you miss or hit a shield ppl just capitalize on the relatively large ending lag.
against short hoppers i just beat them with my own sh f-air (buff the f-air so it comes out on the fastest possible frame), walk powershield to whatever i want, or rarily dash attack
---"6) There's not really many setups, you just have to find a good opportunity to use it. You can use it as a mixup on opponents who are lagging."
jab/db1 -> tip d-smash
shielded attack, shield drop -> tip d-smash
sh ad right in front of the opponent (holding shield expecting aerial) -> shield poke tip d-smash
keep in mind marth's d-smash only comes out 1 or 2 frames slower then mk's d-smash. it just has a lot more ending lag so you better hit with it.
---"7) After a shielded DB1 or DTilt is a great and efficient time to use Shieldbreaker."
shieldbreaker on the whole for newer players isn't recommended at all. it just sucks against ppl that know how to powershield/shield conservation.
d-tilt/db1 to grab is much more safe and reliable and not as punishable if you miss.
---"8) Keep mixing up the amount, sometimes you might even wanna stall with DS a little."
you're not saying the point of stalling with DS which is to make the opponent expose themselves on what their likely option was going to be. it's basically used to get information but if you're just doing it to stall it's actually better to just jump back on asap.
if you're not gathering information immediate action actually ensures you a higher chance of regaining stage control because most players are accustomed to the game slowing down near the edge.
It's not useless. Try running at someone then buffering a roll. Because opponents are so used to marth's spacing in front of them this is a great mixup but can only be sparingly used because marth's roll sucks.
---"3) Uair *****. Practice it with the C-Stick, this helps auto cancelling a lot."
Using the c-stick has nothing to do with auto-cancelling.
---"4) Lol I abuse it. On the Battlefield stage, and on Snake, it works great, practice it. You can also get a few surprised kills off of it. (around like 100 ~ 120%)"
Snake should never die anywhere near those percents by u-smash unless they have Reno DI.
Your trick shouldn't work particularly on snake's because it's not matchup specific and the trick shouldn't even work at all. I don't know why on battlefield it would work more but if you're standing and predicting an airdodge u-tilt is better if you're running and hitting people while they're on the platforms... they're just being dumb.
Nowadays u-smash is used to punisher off a prediction and also as an out of shield option.
---"5) Jab should be use when the opponent is in your face. Two jabs will do the trick, then follow up. FTilt is for short hoppers."
f-tilt pretty much sucks because if you miss or hit a shield ppl just capitalize on the relatively large ending lag.
against short hoppers i just beat them with my own sh f-air (buff the f-air so it comes out on the fastest possible frame), walk powershield to whatever i want, or rarily dash attack
---"6) There's not really many setups, you just have to find a good opportunity to use it. You can use it as a mixup on opponents who are lagging."
jab/db1 -> tip d-smash
shielded attack, shield drop -> tip d-smash
sh ad right in front of the opponent (holding shield expecting aerial) -> shield poke tip d-smash
keep in mind marth's d-smash only comes out 1 or 2 frames slower then mk's d-smash. it just has a lot more ending lag so you better hit with it.
---"7) After a shielded DB1 or DTilt is a great and efficient time to use Shieldbreaker."
shieldbreaker on the whole for newer players isn't recommended at all. it just sucks against ppl that know how to powershield/shield conservation.
d-tilt/db1 to grab is much more safe and reliable and not as punishable if you miss.
---"8) Keep mixing up the amount, sometimes you might even wanna stall with DS a little."
you're not saying the point of stalling with DS which is to make the opponent expose themselves on what their likely option was going to be. it's basically used to get information but if you're just doing it to stall it's actually better to just jump back on asap.
if you're not gathering information immediate action actually ensures you a higher chance of regaining stage control because most players are accustomed to the game slowing down near the edge.
chaosscizzors
Smash Journeyman
@junk
oos Usmash? how exactly would that work, like, how much horzontal range does it have? or would i just be using that against people above me only?
Dsmash is that fast? seriously?
you never did answer the actual question i had about how often i should ledge hop.
oos Usmash? how exactly would that work, like, how much horzontal range does it have? or would i just be using that against people above me only?
Dsmash is that fast? seriously?
you never did answer the actual question i had about how often i should ledge hop.
Schwaumlaut
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2009
- Messages
- 135
Dsmash's forward hit comes out on frame 6 - I thought it was 7, but turns out that that's dtilt. I like dsmash.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
Yes, but use it wisely. It has LOADS of ending lag.
Also, Junk, Ftilt it pretty decent when trying to fight Uphill, as you lose the utility of dtilt, and it has awesome upwards range as well, while it takes longer to SH @ you when you're downwards. Ftilt also can reach certain places on a platform where even fsmash cannot, due to it arcing from low to high instead of high to low (kinda like Bair vs Fair)
Also, Junk, Ftilt it pretty decent when trying to fight Uphill, as you lose the utility of dtilt, and it has awesome upwards range as well, while it takes longer to SH @ you when you're downwards. Ftilt also can reach certain places on a platform where even fsmash cannot, due to it arcing from low to high instead of high to low (kinda like Bair vs Fair)
∫unk
Smash Master
you use it whenever you get hit and they're close to you (the horizontal range on u-smash is something you just have to get a feel for) and they're lagging where you have 12 frames of leeway (the time it takes for u-smash to come out).
most attacks will let you do this especially if they land because they have landing lag so what you're looking for is how they space their move and whether they landed or not.
the reason why it's so good is because there's no shielddrop lag (7 frames) like other punishment options to do it just hit up and a while shielding but you have to have tap jump on (which you should anyway with marth to up b out of shield)
it's also good against cross overs because they usually don't cross over that far behind marth if you're spacing well so you can hit them with it if you predict the roll, sh ad, whatever
most ppl say it comes out on frame 6 some say 7. mk's is 5. just make sure you hit with it cause it will always get punished if it hits a shield or you miss.
marth's d-smash is so fast shield drop d-smash is only 1-2 frames slower than a u-smash out of shield (which is why when i was explaining setups for d-smash in my response to rukkiko i was listing out the different situations where you use both)
it's one of marth's safest options coming back on stage so quite a bit but not to the point where you're getting predicted.
you're other safe options are a ledge drop double jump aerial and just climbing back on and buffering shield or if you know they're aggressive dolphin slash.
try to push them back far enough with horizontal dolphin slash through the stage + f-air stalling first (which is another reason i hate fd and strike/reset it every time)
fundamentals first then advance stuff like stage-specific strategiesTheMightyPierce<3 said:
chaosscizzors
Smash Journeyman
Ftilt on hills? why not Utilt to get them in the air? or even just Uair? that's what i've been doing at least.
and why not just dolphin slash when they're right next to you? =/
btw i don't use tap jump, i just roll my finger from jump to A for shield smashing and it seems to work the same. idk imo it doesn't seem THAT important to have tap jump on and it always messes me up with fliers cause they keep jumping even if i tilt.
and why not just dolphin slash when they're right next to you? =/
btw i don't use tap jump, i just roll my finger from jump to A for shield smashing and it seems to work the same. idk imo it doesn't seem THAT important to have tap jump on and it always messes me up with fliers cause they keep jumping even if i tilt.
Punishment Divine
Smash Champion
Use tap jump. Dolphin Slash OoS is absolutely necessary to be good with Marth, imo
∫unk
Smash Master
cause f-tilt reaches out way more horizontally
cause dolphin slash is your kill move and at low percents won't send them far enough where you don't get hit back
and on most stages dolphin slash can be much more punishable if you mess up.
to each their own havok doesn't have tap jump on (he has R or L set to jump so he can do it just as fast) but he's the only legit marth i know that doesn't you should be #2 ^^
Punishment Divine
Smash Champion
I still think it's very worth it to use Tap Jump. You do get used to it after a while and there's no chance of messing anything OoS up.
Trust me, I used to think I wouldn't need it either, then I tried it and realized how **** DS OoS is and was like "Ehhh...I can get used to TJ" lol
Trust me, I used to think I wouldn't need it either, then I tried it and realized how **** DS OoS is and was like "Ehhh...I can get used to TJ" lol
illinialex24
Smash Hero
I dunno, I prefer very easy timing on the U-tilt than easy timing on the DS OoS. Since both can be done the other way, I prefer DS OoS with the complicated way rather than screw over my spacing and U-tilt timing.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
Tap jump also allows me to jump meteor cancel easier. Utilting is easy now that I'm used to it. There are some things I prefer to do with tap jump, and DS OOS with reliable speed is good.
AndrewCarlson
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2008
- Messages
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1eer]r''e E[r
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Wow, second pro I know that uses L/R specifically as jump instead, the other is Praxis, but he's Peach).
chaosscizzors
Smash Journeyman
R for special seems to work just fine for me, up > Y > R real quick like. i kinda want to know why the fliers like to, well, fly, with tap jump on, even when i'm not taping the stick.
and you can still mess up DS oos with tap jump on. i seem to mess it up more that way than my way, but that probably just because i'm so used to my settings now.
oh and i know i'm already off topic but as long as i'm here i was wondering how to start a glide with the control stick. i glide allot when i don't try to and i've never gotten around to asking anyone why. =/
and you can still mess up DS oos with tap jump on. i seem to mess it up more that way than my way, but that probably just because i'm so used to my settings now.
oh and i know i'm already off topic but as long as i'm here i was wondering how to start a glide with the control stick. i glide allot when i don't try to and i've never gotten around to asking anyone why. =/
AzNsAnTaGiN
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 10, 2007
- Messages
- 51
Can a grab release on MK combo into anything else (like a dash to DB?), or is a tipper fair usually just the best option?
GPEternity
Smash Journeyman
Marth can glide? I believe with MK and Pit you just hold the control stick up and he gooes into a glide if you have tap jump on. otherwise you hold a jump button (X,Y default)
apparently you can grab release -> DS if you're fast enough.
apparently you can grab release -> DS if you're fast enough.
chaosscizzors
Smash Journeyman
=/
anyway, i know it can't be tap jump cause i don't have that turned on, and holding up just makes them fly untill the're out of jumps, whether or not they glide afterwords i have no idea.
it was just a general question, i figured i was like the only kid on the block that didn't know how to do it lol.
ZHMT
Smash Lord
It depends on who he is facing. Personally, Yoshi's Island, Jungle Japes are my personal worst.
Look at Solid's stage discussion index for further info.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197672
chaosscizzors
Smash Journeyman
if it's not a marth question don't ask? i'm just assuming but my bad,
BUT, i'm leaving without giving you all a proper thank you for the help.
thanks hommies, now i'm off to go kill my friend's fox some more. =D
BUT, i'm leaving without giving you all a proper thank you for the help.
thanks hommies, now i'm off to go kill my friend's fox some more. =D
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Query: Wasn't there a video of two pros playing, one was D3, the other was marth, and whilst being CG'd for the umpteenth time, the marth player slapped the controller out of the DDD player's hands? I forgot who they were, but I lol'd so hard when the guy yelled "COMBO BREAKER!"
Hmm...This helps, but I don't think that all the tournament viable stages are covered in there. Would there be any other stages that could be added to Marth's good or bad stage list or is there nothing else that is really 'eye catching' in particular?
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
Adept Marth's should do well on Lylat. Castle Siege, along with the rest of the neutrals are also fine for Marth. Also, short of R.O.B., MK, and perhaps Pit you should be fine on Rainbow Cruise.
Brinstar and PS1 are good IF you practice them, and learn their tricks. If legal, Norfair is OK.
Halberd and Delfino are fine stages if your opponent doesn't have shenanigans there, or sucks at killing vertically.
Marth isn't really that great on Frigate, especially against characters that can edgeguard well. Still, he's never really stranded.
Brinstar and PS1 are good IF you practice them, and learn their tricks. If legal, Norfair is OK.
Halberd and Delfino are fine stages if your opponent doesn't have shenanigans there, or sucks at killing vertically.
Marth isn't really that great on Frigate, especially against characters that can edgeguard well. Still, he's never really stranded.
legion598
Smash Ace
so is Fthrow> Dair spike inescapable at lower percents? and If so at what percent does it become escapable?
Punishment Divine
Smash Champion
For Flaco and a few others it's almost inescapable. Chances are you won't wind up in that situation though
What tricks do PS1 and Brinstar have? I only know that you can refresh your moves on Brinstar but that's all I know. For PS1, is it something about D-tilt locking or something against a wall?
I think that also brings me to the next question but I don't think it's suitable here: Who's bad at KO'ing vertically?
Punishment Divine
Smash Champion
on PS1 Marth can really take good control on the two main platforms and the sides make it easier to gimp characters like DK and Ness/Lucas. The Windmill and the Foresty parts have good platform placement. The Fire one is kinda meh though, although you can lock against the wall.
I don't really like Brinstar much and don't get to play on it enough, though.
As to who's bad at KOing vertically? Err. One sec:
Captain Falcon
Diddy Kong
Falco
Game and Watch (Unless you get hit with usmash lol)
Ganon (dtilt is the only move that can really kill you unless you get usmashed)
Jigglez
Kirby
Weegie kinda send you diagonal, but I guess up b is good...
Mario unless you get hit with usmash
MK (Like it matters...)
Ness
Peach
Pit
Charizard gets most kills to the sides but he CAN kill vertically
ROB
Samus (She cant kill ANY way lmao)
Shiek
SNAKE! (...kidding...)
Sonic
Wolf
Yoshi? (I have no idea lmao)
ZSS
I don't really like Brinstar much and don't get to play on it enough, though.
As to who's bad at KOing vertically? Err. One sec:
Captain Falcon
Diddy Kong
Falco
Game and Watch (Unless you get hit with usmash lol)
Ganon (dtilt is the only move that can really kill you unless you get usmashed)
Jigglez
Kirby
Weegie kinda send you diagonal, but I guess up b is good...
Mario unless you get hit with usmash
MK (Like it matters...)
Ness
Peach
Pit
Charizard gets most kills to the sides but he CAN kill vertically
ROB
Samus (She cant kill ANY way lmao)
Shiek
SNAKE! (...kidding...)
Sonic
Wolf
Yoshi? (I have no idea lmao)
ZSS
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Fixed, Ness' bthrow usually kills off the ceiling before the side, and he has a scary powerful uair, and Peach has pretty good uair and usmash (although her game does emphasis more horizontal kills, with her fair and such).