Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Yoshi Kirishima]

whiffed ftilts? whats an ftilt?

I like Marth's glide toss set ups.

fast falling onto a land of bananas?

not all moves have to hit... oh lord
I'm not going for accuracy when I can go for "limit options, so if he takes it, hes screwed, if he doesnt im still good"
__________________

Lol. Yeah don't want to land on those bananas >

"oh lord"

icwutudidthar

 

[/~Dogma~\]

uhhhhh yea, i use planking against samurai panda, and i think hes a pretty **** good snake.

nades and nitka dont do anything tbh

but planking isnt for everyone, i find it effective in tournament play.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Here's a question:

How do I collect hitbox data?

 

[Shaya]

Oh, sorry Zeus. I read your pm yesterday before going to work and had to rush off before answering it.

I:

In frame/debug mode
on luigi's mansion, brinstar, or sometimes others

would through various small steps and adjustments in position, find out at 'that frame' the 'centre point' of the hit on the stage pillars. When an attack hits something, it creates that 'boom' animation, the centre of which is where the hitbox permeates from (i.e. the first location that the hitbox of the move touched on that frame)

 

[Jupz]

Is SH Bair OOS a good punisher if they are behind you and DB is quite stale? I use it quite a bit and I found it tips reliably at the start of the hitbox. You can also pull out another Fair after the Bair is finished and before you land to cover. Its safer then DB if you whiff for that reason and because you can retreat with it.

 

[GPEternity]

bair comes out slower than db. so i guess it depends on the positioning, the move blocked and how much lag there is, and the potential to kill or put the opponent in a bad position if the attack lands. it might also work as a crossup.

 

[Pierce7d]

If you are never using Marth's other tilts (ftilt and utilt) you are a fool. Remember that to use the like aerial, although you are more maneuverable, you have jump start-up lag, and are slower.

 

[clowsui]

I'm not fond of Ftilt but maybe I'll find uses for it like Jab. I'm just annoyed when people shield Ftilt and then **** me for it : (

UTilt on the other hand is extremely useful.

 

[Remzi]

Ftilt is great for shutting down aerial approaches and for platform pressure, it isn't exactly safe on block, but it has it's uses.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Yeah, ftilt's pretty **** :D.

"If you are never using Marth's other tilts (ftilt and utilt) you are a fool. Remember that to use the like aerial, although you are more maneuverable, you have jump start-up lag, and are slower."

Good point there.

 

[Fizzle]

DB -> utilt is good sometimes since it beats out some spotdodges. It's also good oos when you don't know if they'll cross up or not (since it hits all around you). usmash oos works for the same purpose, but I think it's a few frames slower.

Ftilt is pretty useless imo except vs certain aerial approaches (Peach, ROB) since it outranges them (pretty sure). The platform pressure is decent too. Other than that, jab does it all better.

 

[jpwakor]

marth vs snake??? help

 

[GPEternity]

pick MK.

otherwise. try to get him in the air where you can set up a juggle. make sure you make the most of your edgeguards. don't be overly agressive or you'll get ***** by wtflongtilthax.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Spacing is really "tight" against Snake and is very important... Snake's weaker in the air and Marth can really set up some good juggles.
If you're having problems with his DACUS, then I'll tell you now that Marth's dtilt is great for that. When you're at a safe distance and feel he may dash towards you/ DACUS to you, just whip out a dtilt. Usually they'll feel inclined to DACUS when they're near the edge or when you're in the middle of the range of a DACUS. More experienced Snakes will be less predictable though, of course.
Really try to use his grenades against him if possible, as Marth has a really nice glide toss.

 

[uhmuzing]

I was trying to read up on the Ike & Marth MU....

On a separate note, Marth can Dolphin Slash out of Ike's jab, but I forget which hit it has to be between.

Does anyone happen to know the answer to that? Or should I take it up in that MU thread?

 

[GPEternity]

between the second and third hits most likely since the sword slash is the slowest.

 

[C.J.]

Spacing is really "tight" against Snake and is very important... Snake's weaker in the air and Marth can really set up some good juggles.
If you're having problems with his DACUS, then I'll tell you now that Marth's dtilt is great for that. When you're at a safe distance and feel he may dash towards you/ DACUS to you, just whip out a dtilt. Usually they'll feel inclined to DACUS when they're near the edge or when you're in the middle of the range of a DACUS. More experienced Snakes will be less predictable though, of course.
Really try to use his grenades against him if possible, as Marth has a really nice glide toss.

Yes to all of it but the last sentence. Don't try to use his grenades... they're his, and he'll strip them out of your hands and have them blow up in your face to remind you of it. Although, usually they'll be cooked well enough so that they blow up in your face regardless... Just ignore his grenades for the most part. They'll more-so distractions than anything else. Just keep on swinging your sword in his face.

 

[/~Dogma~\]

If you play just play passive aggressive, his nades are really no problem just perfect shield them its pretty easy imo. counter his dsmash mind, and be very wary for the mine, especially when it randomly explodes if he doesnt set it off

full hop fair is your friend. also
approach with fair he shields it, you dj away.

if he is ever off stage you know he will not be below you, bc he will up b right after you hit him with somthing (if it knocks him off stage)

when he is recovering with his up b, use ur up b when your feet are parallel with his, you will hit him and his cypher will hit you (which means you wont have ur falling animation) and can follow up from there, sometimes it will take ur up b sometimes it doesnt its weird,

be gay, planking against snake isnt hard you can up b any over his explosives and ur invicibility frames with take care of it. and if snake decides to be stupid and go after you while u are off stage im sure you know what do do from there. if you do spike him off the stage but close to the stage be ready to tech the cypher.

whatch out for snakes A to ftilt it deals a ******** amount of dmg.

the only time you should be using fsmash is for the kill, not to punish.

the reason, fsmash will push him to far out if its not tippered and you wont be able to finish him off.
use db > > V then chase

at 0 percent fthrow dair
it may have to be a full hop. do whatever u have to to land this if u can.

this is much harder then other characters bc he is so heavy, the timing is later then others.
and you have to edge guard the **** out of him. but just get down there and up b him against the stage and look for the c4 recovery.

you shouldnt have to worry about being killed with ftilt too much you shouldnt be put it that situation and if you are he should have to hit you all the way across the stage.

utilt, this is the big problem. he can kill you around 120 i think anywhere on the stage. so after 100 percent you should be playing extremely safe.

if u need more PM me.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Yes to all of it but the last sentence. Don't try to use his grenades... they're his, and he'll strip them out of your hands and have them blow up in your face to remind you of it. Although, usually they'll be cooked well enough so that they blow up in your face regardless... Just ignore his grenades for the most part. They'll more-so distractions than anything else. Just keep on swinging your sword in his face.

Yes you are right . That's why I said "if possible".

 

[Zero Hour]

Hey guys back again with more noob questions =P

Okay, so my friend has decided to main wolf now, and I've noticed a few issues I've been having. My biggest problem is the **** laser. I jump over them and i try to FF Fair but every time I do he shield grabs me. At first i thought i was just spacing wrong but even when i tipper it i still seem to end up in his grab range. Then i thought i was being to predictable, but every other approach i tried doesn't seem to work either. So far the only somewhat dependable one to get around either him shield grabbing or him just rolling away and resting is to get behind him, and since he's a roll addict i just punish his second roll away.... however I know that f i were to fight a "real" wolf main then I would be in trouble in a tourney... any advice?

EDIT: Oh 2 more easy ones... how do I avoid that weird wolf-like semi scar i do sometimes, and does FF Fair to DS combo and if so at what percents, my friends probably just suck at DI (i had him thinking I could zero-death grab release his lucas for a while... *facepalm*)

 

[clowsui]

the snake mu boils down to whether you're actually hitting him or not, you can't actually zone snake since he has nades + dash attack

the key thing to remember is that you wanna try and hit snake at the top or the bottom of his body. he holds the grenade at his center, and even though he can tilt his shield to adjust the position of the grenade so long as what you're doing hits him at his head or feet (i.e. rising tipper fair, sh nair tipped, dtilt) you're not actually going to blow anything up.

grab and jab are two of your best tools in this matchup imo. jab is an esay way to quickly hit snake at ftilt range and to clank with ftilt properly should it come out and 90% of the time w/ good reaction time you can db or dtilt afterwards and not get punished. grab is good because it neutralizes snake's shielding option which is what he uses a lot to try and hold down his stage control (through nade cooking)

 

[GPEternity]

Hey guys back again with more noob questions =P

Okay, so my friend has decided to main wolf now, and I've noticed a few issues I've been having. My biggest problem is the **** laser. I jump over them and i try to FF Fair but every time I do he shield grabs me. At first i thought i was just spacing wrong but even when i tipper it i still seem to end up in his grab range. Then i thought i was being to predictable, but every other approach i tried doesn't seem to work either. So far the only somewhat dependable one to get around either him shield grabbing or him just rolling away and resting is to get behind him, and since he's a roll addict i just punish his second roll away.... however I know that f i were to fight a "real" wolf main then I would be in trouble in a tourney... any advice?

EDIT: Oh 2 more easy ones... how do I avoid that weird wolf-like semi scar i do sometimes, and does FF Fair to DS combo and if so at what percents, my friends probably just suck at DI (i had him thinking I could zero-death grab release his lucas for a while... *facepalm*)

wolf's lasers are easy to power shield and then you can ds him if he goes for anything after that. if your approach never works its because he knows what to expect. so you probably just need to mix it up a bit more. if you condition him to shield your fairs all thats left to do is toss out a shieldbreaker and call it a stock. you could also just grab him out of his shield and you can always punish a predictable roll. i think fair to ds depends on the character and probably only at low percents which means your better off doing fair -> dtilt -> db.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

No Fair into DB does not combo, or at least according to my knowledge and that of the True Marth Combos Thread.

And you were right in a way, aside from all the unproved stuffz like EIDI and SDI, you can infinite grab Lucas, or at least grab him for roughly a good 15 times and do roughly 70% dmg (considering he isn't too close to the edge and that he is not extremely good at escaping).

Wolf's grab range is not large enough to grab you out of your Fair, so you are not spacing correctly in that situation. However, i'm unsure about shield hitstun and such, it is possible that a Wolf may be able to perfect shield your fair and grab you. But either way, if you fair and want to make sure you don't get grabbed, be sure to DI backwards as soon as you input your fair.

Sorry but I don't know what you mean by the "wierd wolf-like semi scar". Do you mean when you hit your opponent and it seems like both of you are stunned for a brief second? That's just what happens when you sweetspot your attacks for certain characters, which would be Marth's tip in this case.

 

[Shaya]

Everything combos from a fast fall fair at the right percents.

 

[C.J.]

Everything combos from a fast fall fair at the right percents.

Even shieldbreaker?

As for the weird wolf semi-scar thing he mentioned, I think he's talking about ledge canceled DS. I have no idea what causes it though?

 

[/~Dogma~\]

1-3 fthrows to dair
no matter what people say try it.
you can also drag him to his death off stage with one side b repeating

JCav is a very good wolf despite the title hes best in MI with wolf and places well in big tourneys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF5nNBee87c

this is a poor example of it, but its a match with me and him.

 

[Inle~Orichas]

I'm having trouble with remaining offensive with Marth without sacrificing spacing. Advice?

 

[Zero Hour]

with the scarring thing i mean when i DS the ledge but don't land on the ledge but don't go into the free fall animation...basically looks like i should grab the ledge but i don't.

And as far as your tips on the power shielding thanks but I'm unsure as to how i could progress to him while power shielding... am i just supposed to shield, walk step, repeat?

thanks for the vid that should help the most.

 

[GPEternity]

the ds ledge cancel is to my knowledge a mystery. sometimes marth simply doesn't hold on. if your getting it to happen often, tell us what your doing when you try to recover aside from pressing up and b.

you walk or run toward him and when the laser is just about to hit you, you shield. rinse and repeat.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

the ds ledge cancel is to my knowledge a mystery. sometimes marth simply doesn't hold on. if your getting it to happen often, tell us what your doing when you try to recover aside from pressing up and b.

you walk or run toward him and when the laser is just about to hit you, you shield. rinse and repeat.

It's a matter of where you "contact" the edge. I did some testing with Falco's phantasm and the ledge-grab cancel. It is much easier to do with phantasm because it's a horizontal movement, whereas Marth moves at a curve. I'll show you the exact place you have the hit the edge with a video I made.

This video is not with Marth, it is Falco, so it will only tell you where you have to end up, not where to start the dolphin slash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcL_dybYJBwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcL_dybYJBw

 

[Shaya]

I'm having trouble with remaining offensive with Marth without sacrificing spacing. Advice?

Life isn't meant to be easy,
the game isn't meant to be a piece of cake/walk in the park either.

Keep practicing until you get it.
ITS THE TECH SKILL Marfs always yearn for.

Advice? Try aiming to 'whiff' (JUST) the opponent, and just add a few moments of holding forward to that to have perfect spacing :o

 

[GPEternity]

It's a matter of where you "contact" the edge. I did some testing with Falco's phantasm and the ledge-grab cancel. It is much easier to do with phantasm because it's a horizontal movement, whereas Marth moves at a curve. I'll show you the exact place you have the hit the edge with a video I made.

This video is not with Marth, it is Falco, so it will only tell you where you have to end up, not where to start the dolphin slash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcL_dybYJBwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcL_dybYJBw

much harder with marth because ds brings you up from under the ledge. hmmm

 

[Inle~Orichas]

Thanks Shaya, I see now what my flaw was. (I suppose I was moving forward then attacking, rather than attacking then moving forward.)

 

[Zero Hour]

oh okay i think i see how the DS thing works now... according to the falco video it happens when basically falco's feet sweet spot the ledge. The reason it doesn't happen often is because the DS almost moves in an elliptical motion, so If u miss the ledge on the way up but DI to hit the top of the ledge at the end of the animation then it happens... cool, is there any intentional use of this?

 

[Gah777]

Idk I never usually miss the edge...

Edit: I can't think of any, but it might be useful if someone is edgegaurding you. but since it looks like you pop up from the ledge a little, it might give your opponent to smash attck you or eomething...

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Everything combos from a fast fall fair at the right percents.

Hmm really?

 

[Shaya]

1. Yes, really.
Fair has 8 frames of landing lag.
Fair has UP TO 30 frames of hitstun before it goes into the 'air dodge/attack' to cancel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3n4AGvVyl0&feature=channel_page

True combawzzzz.

2. DS drop thing only works when someone isn't on the ledge itself, IIRC.
Meaning it's "use" in aiming for it, is only somewhat okay if they're on the stage...

3. Yeah... spacing to a degree is just muscle memory/vision recognition.
So it's just practice...

 

[GPEternity]

so whats marth's frame advantage from a ff fair and is there enough hitstun nontippered to still combo?

and where can i get an mp3 of the song you had on? XD

 

[Shaya]

It's a song that already in the game.

This video was before custom music replacement.

And use your brain.

I already said exactly how much advantage Marth has.

It isn't static.

 

[Jorgeme]

i was messing around and found out that if you hold up, THEN press jump and A, you charge an upsmash. Is this know? I have no idea how this might be useful, but maybe it could lead to a new AT? I'm optomistic .