Approaching with Marth

[Sensei]

Cactuar's sig is SO GOOD.

But I like my Emo Spiderman, rofl. I am going to let my hair grow out just so I can do the hair flip.

 

[Wife]

Nevermind.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ijuka, seriously cut the crap. Stop spamming my thread with your nonsense.

 

[ShoryuSwordsman]

Ijuka your fighting a losing battle with a lot of people against you. It may be time to just let it go and offer that advice you were talking about. This has gotten a lot farther than it needed to and it's obvious that even if Cactuar and Emblem Lord were to back down then other people would just keep comming in their defense. Be the man and take the fall. If you really want to give advice then how about advice on aproaching a Pillar happy Falco just for the sake of getting back on topic. I normally approach with spaced fairs but all he does is shield and my approach is wasted. I've tried grabbing after the fair but all he does is jump cancel his shield into a dair (and lately he's been jump canceling into shines every now and then so grabbing after a shielded fair isn't much of an option anymore.)

dash dance much? i would assume it works on a shielding falco, shffled fair>DD>grab if he jc's outta shield into dair. he'll most likely do a shine rite after he shffl's the dair, if so, then just make sure your dashdance lasts accordingly. but if you play him enough to know how he moves, then it shouldn't be too hard to get around, but then again i havent played any decent falco's except at the biweeklies, which is rare due to circumstances, but it sounds effective. dashdancing is pretty much a staple for marth anyway. even i have to work on doing it after i do certain things, like after a dtilt, instead of spamming it

 

[Pye]

dash dance much? i would assume it works on a shielding falco, shffled fair>DD>grab if he jc's outta shield into dair. he'll most likely do a shine rite after he shffl's the dair, if so, then just make sure your dashdance lasts accordingly. but if you play him enough to know how he moves, then it shouldn't be too hard to get around, but then again i havent played any decent falco's except at the biweeklies, which is rare due to circumstances, but it sounds effective. dashdancing is pretty much a staple for marth anyway. even i have to work on doing it after i do certain things, like after a dtilt, instead of spamming it

Something else you can try against a Falco who likes to dair out of shield is dash towards him to make it look like you want to grab (this should make him JC his shield), then quickly dashdance back and pivot into ether an fsmash, an ftilt or an overB.

Obviously, if your friend is any good, he'll catch on to what you do, and you'll have to switch it up. If you pivot an fsmash and hit him the first time, he may stepdodge it if you try the same thing again, so keep switching it up.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Something else you can try against a Falco who likes to dair out of shield is dash towards him to make it look like you want to grab (this should make him JC his shield), then quickly dashdance back and pivot into ether an fsmash, an ftilt or an overB.

Obviously, if your friend is any good, he'll catch on to what you do, and you'll have to switch it up. If you pivot an fsmash and hit him the first time, he may stepdodge it if you try the same thing again, so keep switching it up.

Thanks for the tips guys. That pivot F-smash sounds like a good idea (I've been trying to find more uses for pivoting lately) I know I should be mixing it up, but I wan't something relativly safe to fall back on in case I have a mental lapse or something That actually happens quite often, mostly when I catch a mistake I made and start thinking of what the opponent can do to me. It's like I know that it's comming, but I don't decide what option to take fast enough.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Pivots are too hard for me to rely on, I can do them but it seems when under pressure, it fails...

*Bump from bottom*

 

[Dark Sonic]

It's not that hard of a motion anyway and it's not nearly as difficult as double shining or SWD. Just dash in one direction and then flick the control stick back to neutral before inputing the attack. I still can't pivot the utilt or f-tilt, but everything else seems to work.
Only problem is that I really have no idea when to use them. Most of my friends have become very defensive against my Marth and pivoting doesn't make a good approach. It's more of a defensive manuver, but I'm not the one on the defensive most of the time.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I can do double shining far easier than pivoting.

 

[Silver Sytos]

Whats a good way to practice pivoting? I've tried it in training mode but I can't seem to get it down. What signs should i be looking for? Is it dash left/right, then snap the control stick back to neutral, or to the other direction?

 

[Dark Sonic]

You snap the control stick back to neutral. If you do it right you should se Marth dash and then suddenly stand and turn around. The most common mistake is flicking the control stick too far. Just use some restraint and the timing won't really be a problem. I can't believe people have an easier time moving thier thumb back and forth from the Y button and the B button in 5 frames over and over again than just flicking the control stick like they were fast falling. Sure you only have one frame for pivoting, but by flicking the control stick back to neutral you have as many frames as you want to put the attack in. That one frame already passed and the command you put on it was to stand and turn.

 

[Randizzle]

bluedeath, I'm with you on this one. I can double shine pretty well (but don't ask me to do more), but I have a tough time doing some stuff with pivoting. There was a time when I could pivot pretty consistently but it's somehow disappeared from my technical repertoire. I kind just manage without it now.

But as mentioned, it can make for a pretty useful defensive trick.
I'll relearn it someday.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Thanks, glad I'm not the only one..

I can do it fine during friendlies and whatnot, put some pressure there and I can't..thats the only tech thing that fails under pressure so I don't bother.

 

[FrostByte]

IMO, the standing pivot is a lot harder to do when compared to jc shines. Jc shines consist of sliding along buttons with digital input while the standing pivot has the analog factor (which you can get rid of actually, I just won't say how). The pivot smashes are the easiest to do.

 

[Lord Knight]

Marth can dash across after a fair or dtilt? Fair most likely, if you hit with the fair near the ground. Dtilt I don't see how you could >_> Maybe if they don't perfectly time the grab. So you did it to Mew2King? Cool..

Just wanna say, learn your IASA frames.

 

[Cactuar]

Lol. We are done trying to help Ijuka. He's stubborn, thinks he's a good player, and doesn't want to listen to others.

 

[Emblem Lord]

If you want to see a good approach game with Marth, then you need to look at the finals match of PC Chris vs. Mew2King of Evo East. Here is the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WowKCUQX4v4&feature=RecentlyWatched&page=1&t=t&f=b

Look at how Mew2King abuses SHFFLED fairs and d-tilts. When he misses he rolls or dashes. These two moves are very safe and make it hard to punish Marth. Also notice how he uses shield games and dashes behind and away from PC to mix it up after he shields an attack.

Mew2King uses a solid safe approach to dominate his opponents. His Marth is an excellent example of a Marth that abuses dash dancing combined with safely spamming moves intelligently.

BTW Cactuar got 3rd at Evo East. He beat Forward. It's official. Cactuar is pro.

Hawtness.

 

[Binx]

Pretty poor vid quality and the announcer was annoying, but yeah as soon as PC got a little impatient the match was pretty much over, very solid play by M2K. Can't wait for OC3

 

[Emblem Lord]

Announcer = Bicardi.

Bicardi = god-like.

 

[Cactuar]

The announcer and the crowd at evo were both amazing.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Cactuar congrats at evo man. You surprised me with your placement. Good job.

 

[Emblem Lord]

3rd page?!

OH, HELL NO!!!!!!

 

[Cactuar]

Hahaha. Failure.

 

[Emblem Lord]

*Sigh*

It would seem that the genius of my threads is lost on the Marth community as a whole.

 

[JBM falcon08]

Cactuar, we need to make sure to play at fc man, i'll look out for you if i can, plus i need some tips sometime if its possible about fox over aim or at FC.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I'm too busy dealing with marth noobs to defend this thread..sorry emblem

 

[Cactuar]

Cactuar, we need to make sure to play at fc man, i'll look out for you if i can, plus i need some tips sometime if its possible about fox over aim or at FC.

Yeah sure. I play both characters pretty well.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Well. Since this thread is back up I've got a question. What's a good way to approach a needle spammy Shiek. All I've really been doing is spacing fairs, but he just keeps shielding and I really can't get a hit in.

 

[Randizzle]

I want in on some of the fox and/or marth action at FC too =)

 

[Emblem Lord]

Sonic Wave: When Sheik shields your fair the fun begins. Check out the thread in my sig to learn more.

You can jump over needles or shield them then wavedash from sieild to w/e.

 

[JBM falcon08]

Sonic wave, just jump as if your going to space a fair and then go in for a grab.

 

[NJzFinest]

Emblem Lord, after you land a Fair or Nair, I think it's better to dash (away or pass the opponent) or reverse Dolphin Slash instead of rolling away.
Lordknight told me about this some time ago where Marth can simply dash after a L-canceled Fair (I assume you can with a Nair too) and avoid being sheild grabbed by your opponent. I see Mew2king do this in his most recent vids, so I'm assuming it's a good tactic. I mean, you can't get hit when you roll, but you can't attack. If you dash, you can do something like...Fair + pivot Fsmash , Fair + dash dance camp, or Fair + dash pass the oppenent and grab (all of which I saw m2k do ).
The use of Dolphin Slash is pretty obvious. At high damages, I seen some Marth players avoid being shield grabbed and maybe KO their opponent by using a reverse D-slash right after the L-canceled aerial. It's not as risky as it seems since if you angle the D-slash correctly, it's possible to avoid being hit.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ummmm. I wrote a whole section in the approach guide about why it's good to dash and I even explained it to Ijuka with Cactuars help because he didn't think it could be done.

So what exactly makes you think that I don't know the usefulness of dashing after doing an attack? I even gave it a name.

Dash cross-up.

lol@Carl.

 

[Roche_CL]

Maybe I'm the only one that sometimes approaches with Foward Wavedash and inmediately Ftilt.

generaly they are dash dancing, and when you approach they think "now its my time for the grab!" but they get the tipper of the Ftilt xD.

hahahaha, try it out, maybe it's just usefull becuase the ones wich I play aren't thaaaat good (compared with USA's lvl :S)

what you say?

 

[NJzFinest]

Ummmm. I wrote a whole section in the approach guide about why it's good to dash and I even explained it to Ijuka with Cactuars help because he didn't think it could be done.

So what exactly makes you think that I don't know the usefulness of dashing after doing an attack? I even gave it a name.

Dash cross-up.

lol@Carl.

Sorry, I skimmed it :embarrass I only saw "roll afterwards" and immediately posted, my bad.

 

[TierWhore]

I don't have time to read the whole thing through yet, as in all of the pages of the thread, beacuse I have stuff to do, but after the "if the shffled fair hits" i didn't see fsmash included as a follow up. Just thought you should know, cuz that's one of the main follow ups at medium percentages when anywhere close to the edge of the stage for me. It results in a sweetspot normally if the fair was sweetspotted.

 

[knightpraetor]

ya i feel like roll aways are better after a shielded nair than a shielded fair..assuming your spacings right...depending on char's grab range as well...marth vs marth i think if you space a nair so that it would have hit the opponent, then the opposing marth will still have a chance to grab before you can dash away..not sure about this though..maybe the hit stun prevents it? i was wondering if i was doing it wrong.

anyways you could also space farther back (so that the attack would not hit if they didn't shield) if you know you're going to get shielded and then you're guaranteed out of range..

but i was wondering if hitstun can let you dash out or not..right now i tend to roll away after nairs instead of dashing against marth's...people with smaller grab range i just space

 

[thebluedeath1000]

This is getting abit too low...people may not see it and make dumb topics istead.

 

[capncone]

so is being able to pivot an f-smash really helpful? Is it worth it to take the time to learn it?

 

[Dark Sonic]

It's really situationall, but it helps to know how to do it. I find it easier to use the c-stick, but I really don't know why. I guess because it's easier for me to move both sticks at the same time rather than timming an a button press for when the control stick passes neutral.

Pivot smashes can be used as a suprise attack out of a dashdance or after you've succesfully dodged an opponent's attack. It can also be used to punish a side dodge if you predict it because the dash will generally put you in the perfect situation to hit them out of it. Being able to pivot other moves help too, the grab being most noticable. Pivoting grabs can help you chaingrab a Fox or Falco who doesn't DI or DIs vertically. It also helps you outrange the shine with your grab if they like to shine you out of your chain throw.

My favorite pivot technique is the pivot jump just because of the WTF factor. Your opponent sees you dash away and then suddenly you back in their face with a perfectly spaced fair. It's also a very good way to get pressure off of you and back onto your opponent. Dash away from whatever they're doing and pivot once you get a little distance and they have to try to break through your range all over again.