ballin4life
Smash Hero
i don't like the idea of reducing the number of games. i'd rather have best of 5 for all sets lol
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Apex 2013 Smash 64 January 11-13th, 2013 Singles Bracket is now up
- Thread starter SSB64-Jel
- Start date
reducing stock count or set length puts more variance in there. We're used to five stocks, shortening that is going to **** with people. Shortening set counts means that it makes it that much more of a toss-up
I know you play more melee than 64 now but honestly "They do it in melee" is not an adequate argument for making us four-stock bo5. In melee you're playing from neutral a lot more; that's why they say things like "one hit and you're dead in falco dittos" or "it's falco v. fox, honestly it doesn't even matter that he's down one stock." Obvious exaggerations, but there's truth there, and it's even more true for a ton of MU's in 64. We need more matches because the variance is higher, since often you're playing to one hit. If it takes longer, it's because the game is slower.
Hyrule totally does take longer than DL. That one boom-isai match is screwing you all up; do you really think kefit-sensei would have taken that long on DL?
I know you play more melee than 64 now but honestly "They do it in melee" is not an adequate argument for making us four-stock bo5. In melee you're playing from neutral a lot more; that's why they say things like "one hit and you're dead in falco dittos" or "it's falco v. fox, honestly it doesn't even matter that he's down one stock." Obvious exaggerations, but there's truth there, and it's even more true for a ton of MU's in 64. We need more matches because the variance is higher, since often you're playing to one hit. If it takes longer, it's because the game is slower.
Hyrule totally does take longer than DL. That one boom-isai match is screwing you all up; do you really think kefit-sensei would have taken that long on DL?
SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
think of the same matchup on hyrule instead of dl LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Can anyone show me some instances of comebacks that would not have occurred had the game ended after 4 stocks?
LLDL
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2007
- Messages
- 7,128
At my 64 tournaments, my ruleset is stage 1 always dreamland, winner gets a ban. Legal stages are hyrule, kongo and dreamland. Lol, it leaves hyrule open for a situation where BOTH players like the stage, but effectively gets ride of hyrule otherwise. Ballin should remember from the last time he came haha. Besides him I've received no complaints lol.
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
Dunno, maybe it would've. I'm certainly not going to theorize how long it would take to play a match that never happened. Don't have access to youtube right now (work) but when I do I'll crunch some numbers and see what's what.
prisonchild
Smash Ace
is it just me or is banning hyrule because of camping *** backwards?
Han Solo
Banned via Warnings
Some people REALLY hate Hyrule.
kys
Smash Ace
So we should ban camping because of Hyrule?
Camping as stalling is hard to define. It's subjective. What, exactly, constitutes stalling?
If you're talking about camping as an overpowered defensive tactic, Hyrule enables this to a stronger degree with the tent area. At least that's the argument in its simple form, I believe. Someone can correct me on this.
I personally feel there's not enough evidence in competitive matches to make a statement either way right now, but the tornados alone make Hyrule bannable, so it's a pretty irrelevant discussion imo.
Camping as stalling is hard to define. It's subjective. What, exactly, constitutes stalling?
If you're talking about camping as an overpowered defensive tactic, Hyrule enables this to a stronger degree with the tent area. At least that's the argument in its simple form, I believe. Someone can correct me on this.
I personally feel there's not enough evidence in competitive matches to make a statement either way right now, but the tornados alone make Hyrule bannable, so it's a pretty irrelevant discussion imo.
King Funk
Int. Croc. Alligator
No, ban Hyrule because of camping.
/discussion
Anyway, there is a tiny chance I might still make it to Apex 2013 anyway. It'll depend on an exam I have to pass on the 11th of December. I will tell you guys on that day or the 12th whether I can go or not.
/discussion
Anyway, there is a tiny chance I might still make it to Apex 2013 anyway. It'll depend on an exam I have to pass on the 11th of December. I will tell you guys on that day or the 12th whether I can go or not.
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
better freaking pass
SSB64-Jel
Smash Lord
With alot of the posts I'm reading seems Hyrule needs to go for this event. Think we should give it a try and see what happens, and as I said if both players wanna play on it let them.
registering now
malva00
Smash Master
So have you already purchased your plane ticket?
Kefit
Smash Journeyman
I'm against reducing stocks, if nothing else because I enjoy the dynamics of a five stock match and am apprehensive about how these would change under a four stock model.
However, reducing set lengths to best of three for all except the various finals is a fantastic idea. The arguments against reducing set length based on variance aren't good. While SSB64 is a swingy game, 15 stocks across three matches is plenty to take into account swingy variables. I think my set against King Funk in Apex 2012 demonstrates this well. Furthermore, tournaments are not designed to be won by the best overall player present - they are designed to be won by the player who is playing best that day. So a small degree of variance is perfectly acceptable.
The only real reason NOT to reduce set length is that Apex is essentially the only source of high level SSB64 tournament matches featuring North American players. Spectators, players, and other members of the SSB64 scene have an interest in seeing a larger number of individual matches featuring Isai, Boom, Jaime, me, Nintendude, Sensei, Brazil, etc. But this isn't a compelling argument in my mind if it negatively affects the competitive aspect of the tournament itself and the resultant recorded matches.
Reducing set length is a good first step to addressing the problems we've encountered at Apex and Genesis. Please do this if you're determined to take a conservative approach to any changes made for the SSB64 tournament at Apex.
banze
Smash Journeyman
Yeah I did.
I'm good to go already.
Still need a place to stay though.
About the rule set. I won’t get started since we have such a different one.
So, whatever the majority decides is fine by me. =]
So just for information purposes, as you know, here we play all stages but mushroom (crazy right).
We use 8 min time limit upon request (if one wants it, we do it) with a referee holding he’s own controller connected to the console.
When the clock sets 8min the referee pauses and it’s game(so even in the middle of a combo you can tell the winner).
Stalling is still banned. When winning, you can wait for your opponent to come after you wherever you want, but can’t just keep running away once he gets at you.
Well, it sounds very different I know but that’s how we play here and it have been working so far.
anyways, I just want to play a lot !
ballin4life
Smash Hero
uh, every match where someone is up 2-1 at the end yet loses would qualify ... i will find some if you really want...
firo
Smash Ace
Modifying the competitive ruleset a couple months before the biggest and pretty much only national tournament of the year seems foolish to me. We could have had these discussions (and did) after the last Apex, so why bring them up again so close to the tournament? Banning hyrule and changing to 4 stocks/less games this close seems to me to be a much more drastic modification to the game than just having a timer, which is more closely aligned with the competitive rules we've set already. Imagine if the stage list or stock counts were changed now for melee or brawl. It would cause a huge uproar. Some players here insist only playing on Dreamland and this will give them a significant advantage.
Chainging the stock count to 4 or decreasing the set length will only lead to more matches on hyrule. No way am I going to risk playing on Dreamland against an opponent who I don't know the character he is going to pick when there is such an increase in variability as the matchups are more extreme there. If this is instituted I know at least I'll be picking hyrule more often and this will only lead to more Pikachu/Kirby/Falcon players and campier matches, as each stock now becomes much more important.
Not to mention that banning hyrule still leaves Congo and Dreamland as neutrals which presents a problem for the first stage. If someone doesn't like Hyrule as a stage they can ban it in the beginning and they'll still win the set if they win all the Dreamland games. If we just want to change rules around, I personally believe Peach's Castle is an awful stage and shouldn't be allowed - why don't we talk about that too? Changing stuff now just doesn't make sense. The tournament ran just fine last year in my opinion.
Chainging the stock count to 4 or decreasing the set length will only lead to more matches on hyrule. No way am I going to risk playing on Dreamland against an opponent who I don't know the character he is going to pick when there is such an increase in variability as the matchups are more extreme there. If this is instituted I know at least I'll be picking hyrule more often and this will only lead to more Pikachu/Kirby/Falcon players and campier matches, as each stock now becomes much more important.
Not to mention that banning hyrule still leaves Congo and Dreamland as neutrals which presents a problem for the first stage. If someone doesn't like Hyrule as a stage they can ban it in the beginning and they'll still win the set if they win all the Dreamland games. If we just want to change rules around, I personally believe Peach's Castle is an awful stage and shouldn't be allowed - why don't we talk about that too? Changing stuff now just doesn't make sense. The tournament ran just fine last year in my opinion.
Nah people don't realize how much better than everyone except isai boom is
like it's not that close at all, mother****er is kind of great
watch like isai vs kefit from that one tourney, it's a little sad
I don't like this "oh well you just have to win every other match" logic. Sometimes the better player isn't better enough to consistently 3-0.
like it's not that close at all, mother****er is kind of great
watch like isai vs kefit from that one tourney, it's a little sad
I don't like this "oh well you just have to win every other match" logic. Sometimes the better player isn't better enough to consistently 3-0.
KnitePhox
Smash Lord
i strongly agree with your stance on these issues firo(thanks for server)
and bcow my judgement as a referee would be as impartial as gets; im not blind or ******** either. im sure 90+% of the people with identifiable names[to us 64 peeps] on smashboards that are to attend have similar ref abilities, so saying
would happen exactly 0%(closer to 0 than 1, realistically) of the time in a tournament setting... lol good1 tho
Lol I do trust you to know exactly what's going on and deal with it in an intelligent way
but the perspective that intelligence and perspicacity is coming from is one that would get very trigger-happy on the "this guy's playing luigi let's let him win" button
It's part of your charm
but the perspective that intelligence and perspicacity is coming from is one that would get very trigger-happy on the "this guy's playing luigi let's let him win" button
It's part of your charm
malva00
Smash Master
what day are you coming and what day are you leaving?
oh btw, hyrule is the BEST stage XD
Kefit
Smash Journeyman
Boom and Isai are definitely a step above the other players likely to attend Apex. But it's not an incomprehensible gulf. If I recall correctly, Jaime's match with Isai was pretty good. Isai did ravage me, but I am clueless when it comes to the Link matchup so it's not a good match to use when making a general statement about the relative skill levels of a bunch of players.
And as I said, tournaments aren't about finding the best player period. They are about finding the player who is playing the best during the tournament.
Basically what I'm saying is that we should be cool with some degree of variance. The world won't end if I get knocked out by King Funk in round 3 or if Jaime pulls out a startling win against Boom. Underdog wins happen all the time in professional sports, and it's part of what makes any competitive scene fun and exciting.
banze
Smash Journeyman
I’m actually arriving in NY on the 7th. Our plan is to stay on the city for 3 days and on the 10th afternoon take the train to New Jersey.
Our flight back is on the 14th.
Our flight back is on the 14th.
Yobolight
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2012
- Messages
- 1,126
prisonchild
Smash Ace
i think that post was ban-worthy to be honest.
Kefit
Smash Journeyman
Welp.
Jel and I just booked flight + hotel + rental car for Apex.
Jel and I just booked flight + hotel + rental car for Apex.
SSB64-Jel
Smash Lord
Yep, now it time to sign up for Apex.
Cant wait to meet more of the players from SWF and play them.
Who wants to play me? Or Kefit.
![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/l/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
As a DK player, I cannot wait to play you and learn from you.
SSB64-Jel
Smash Lord
DK is so much fun to play with. It's alot of fun to play DK dittos with Boom as will
prisonchild
Smash Ace
dk dittos are probably the most fun dittos.
i like pika dittos too
i like pika dittos too
ballin4life
Smash Hero
DK dittos are some of the least fun matchups
Han Solo
Banned via Warnings
Any state/region interested in doing a crew battle with Illinois or Midwest?