Anti-falco character?

[CRASHiC]

A slight favor is NOT what this guy is looking for. He is looking for a charecter that flat out beats falco. Your best choices are Kirby and G&W.

Besides, Metaknight is a disputed even to slight advantage with Metaknight. Only someone not aware of the match up would say Metaknight.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167202

 

[Plum]

G&W can do wonders if you go at it right.

Bucket can cancel out any laser spam (<3)

If you do get chaingrabbed and hit with a Dair, G&W can recover from very low with his double jump and great Up B that auto sweetspots

G&W can dominate the air.
- Uair basically allows you to control when the opponent will fall
- Fair can be a great KO move when kept fresh
- Bair has huge range, disjointed hitbox, shield pokes, and has knockback making it hard to punish
- Dair can be slow falled for a great spike and less lag compared to other Dairs like it (ie the Links)
- Nair is great at racking up damage, nice for juggling, excellent when used under a platform

Ridiculously early kills

Going to a stage like Norfair or Rainbow Ride cancels out Falcos chaingrab

Any other stage it will go about even, IMO G&W has the advantage regardless though.


Kirby can be a good choice too, but G&W is very easy to pick up and learn
Ice Climbers will **** if they get a grab but good luck nailing alt throws down... easily hardest thing in the game and their Dair to Fair stuff can be DI'ed to mess you up.

 

[GimR]

Sorry, but you are wrong here. You have it backwards, the nt-spike (nana fair without the throw) is used more for the sole reason that your opponent cannot DI out of the spike. Whereas the dthrow to nana fair can be DI'd out of in some cases.

Not only that, but its easier to nt-spike because you don't have to time your throw and fair based on the opoonent's weightclass.

ugh, your wrong. I made up the nt-spike before Hylain posted about it and named it. I mentioned it in a post and everyone ignored me, I did further testing and you CAN DI back onto the stage with it.

If you time a D-Throw to Spike correctly, and you are as close to the edge as possible, your opponent can't DI onto the stage.

 

[Munas]

I'm not being a douche bag, I'm being blunt. If you are getting aerial juggled constantly by a char with no aerials combos, I can only assume you suck. If you say a character has a 90% cg which is a pretty big claim, and that's not true, you should stop talking til you get your **** straight.

Character choice doesn't meant balls if you are really bad, how is this not clear.

And now that I've made my pretty easy to understand the defense, leave me the **** alone.

No, the other poster had it right. You've not only been unhelpful but rude to the point that you've made yourself look like an idiot. Nothing you've said (at least in the two posts I read) has been even slightly productive and I believe that is where the issue was taken.

You don't absolve yourself by saying "No, I'm right because of blah blah blah, this guy must be a bad player". Good or bad, that's not what this thread was for, therefore you're wasting space, energy and ultimately not gaining any benefit by seeming like an ***.

Sadly, I must be slightly hypocritical at the end of my post because I don't have anything constructive to add to the thread, other than the defense of the OP because I don't know much about Falco and came in here looking for a counter myself.

 

[Tommy_G]

I heard the MK vs MK match up is 60:40 in MKs favor.

Kirby....its too easy. Grab fthrow, up air, grab-> fthrow, hammer. or->down throw up tilt back air. now you have to get 30 whole percent to be at kill percent.

It's really funny because every GaW I've ever played said its either even or in Falco's favor. Bucket does not stop laser spam if the falco isn't an idiot. A full bucket gives more incentive to laser spam.

 

[yummynbeefy]

kirby seemed to work best for me

 

[Falconv1.0]

No, the other poster had it right. You've not only been unhelpful but rude to the point that you've made yourself look like an idiot. Nothing you've said (at least in the two posts I read) has been even slightly productive and I believe that is where the issue was taken.

You don't absolve yourself by saying "No, I'm right because of blah blah blah, this guy must be a bad player". Good or bad, that's not what this thread was for, therefore you're wasting space, energy and ultimately not gaining any benefit by seeming like an ***.

Sadly, I must be slightly hypocritical at the end of my post because I don't have anything constructive to add to the thread, other than the defense of the OP because I don't know much about Falco and came in here looking for a counter myself.

The mod said to drop it.

I'm gonna report you now.

 

[goodkid]

Zelda is decent vs. falco

 

[Megavitamins]

marth. he has a legit 0-death combo on him lol, and pretty much shuts down falco's whole game.

 

[Ulevo]

No, the other poster had it right. You've not only been unhelpful but rude to the point that you've made yourself look like an idiot. Nothing you've said (at least in the two posts I read) has been even slightly productive and I believe that is where the issue was taken.

You don't absolve yourself by saying "No, I'm right because of blah blah blah, this guy must be a bad player". Good or bad, that's not what this thread was for, therefore you're wasting space, energy and ultimately not gaining any benefit by seeming like an ***.

Sadly, I must be slightly hypocritical at the end of my post because I don't have anything constructive to add to the thread, other than the defense of the OP because I don't know much about Falco and came in here looking for a counter myself.

Munas, just ignore it. You will find "intellectuals" like Falconv1.0 all over these boards. No sense getting in to a squabble that doesn't contribute to something.

marth. he has a legit 0-death combo on him lol, and pretty much shuts down falco's whole game.

The former part of your statement is correct. The latter part of your statement is not.

They go near even. Advantages are usually dealt to whichever stage the match is being played on.

 

[Remzi]

They go near even. Advantages are usually dealt to whichever stage the match is being played on.

No, Marth has a legit 60:40 advantage over Falco. Marth shuts down his close range options with his superior speed and range. This basically leaves Falco with his camping, which Marth doesn't have that much trouble getting through.

Thats obviously a very broad scope, but it sums up the matchup simply.

 

[Eddie G]

I'm curious as to why Falcon posts the way he does, and is so quick to back out of an argument while waving the "drop it or I'm going to report you" flag. It reminds me so much of Dark.Pch that it's disgusting.

As for my input, I'm personally comfortable against Falco as Peach, but that's not saying much. I would normally suggest either Metaknight or Marth.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Use DeDeDe, learn the matchup nicely and you might make DeDeDe a counter to Falco.

 

[c3gill]

Marth is decent, But a good Kirby rocks this matchup.

 

[Ulevo]

No, Marth has a legit 60:40 advantage over Falco. Marth shuts down his close range options with his superior speed and range. This basically leaves Falco with his camping, which Marth doesn't have that much trouble getting through.

Thats obviously a very broad scope, but it sums up the matchup simply.

You obviously have never played a good Falco.

Marth has an easier time maneuvering past laser spam than some characters, because he has good aerial speed. That still doesn't change the fact that Marth is the approacher, and Falco is the one who holds all the tools. If the Falco flat out wants to win, he can SHDL and Phantasm away when you get close. The only way around this is to out predict Falco, which leaves you at a disadvantage.

He as an advantage because of his disjointed sword, yes, but the whole game doesn't revolve around close quarters combat. Especially when playing Falco. Let also not forget that Marth has problems knocking Falco out, more so than Falco does against Marth. Marths recovery is also sub par compared to Falcos.

For the record, 60:40 is fairly "near even" to my standards. I don't know about you.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Trust me Falco has a disadvantage against Marth.
I play Peirce7D everyday and experience this hell every week.

Marth has the ability to get inside and shut down all of Falco's options.
Marth upclose can Dolphin Slash through Jab's. (That's invincibility on COMMAND)
Marth has a easy 27% Combo, or a 0-death.
Marth Edgeguard game ***** Falco. Unless you can cancel phantasm's on command.
Marth D-Tilt traps about every option Falco has OoS.
Combo's.
Camping isn't easy, Side-B just kills all of Falco's phantasm game. Only 1/3 of the distance is invincible and most of that 1/3 disappears on edge of Marth's range.

Falco has very few advantages.

CG mindgames.
Phantasm cancel works magic.
Down Smash allows for edge-hog at the 80-110 mark.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Use DeDeDe, learn the matchup nicely and you might make DeDeDe a counter to Falco.

This is so devoid of logic or sense that I dont even know how to answer other than 'lol no'.

And while we're busy doing impossible things in imaginary land I'll go make Kirby a hard counter for Snake and Game and Watch.

 

[Eddie G]

This is so devoid of logic or sense that I dont even know how to answer other than 'lol no'.

And while we're busy doing impossible things in imaginary land I'll go make Kirby a hard counter for Snake and Game and Watch.

Perhaps he was being sarcastic?

You really need to cool it with your posts. >.>

 

[Ulevo]

Perhaps he was being sarcastic?

You really need to cool it with your posts. >.>

I wonder what's more devoid of logic; the post he was replying to, or the idea that he doesn't consider sarcasm a possibility.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Perhaps he was being sarcastic?

You really need to cool it with your posts. >.>

Perhaps you need to start understanding that sarcasm shouldn't be considered unless it's obvious.

Perhaps YOU'RE BEING SARCASTIC. >_>

Besides, it seemed pretty serious, and it was stupid. Ulevo that was also a pretty stupid thing to say, I mean really, what, now do I have to consider sarcasm on everything people say over the internet because you cant do much to give posts a ****ing inflection.


I guess you're all ****ing morons for not realizing I've been sarcastic the entire time, so was everyone arguing with me. All of us were being sarcastic, you're the idiots for not considering it.

 

[Ulevo]

I don't feel like biting the hook. Bait smells fishy.

 

[Eddie G]

I don't feel like biting the hook. Bait smells fishy.

I'll have to agree on that. He's making it too easy.

 

[MMZJSFMMX10MM]

Second, I'm not a complete n00b, it's just there is no real way of approaching him without it resulting in eventual death.
Thirdly, I'm trying to know when the best time to approach is, how to approach, and how to turn the game around in my favor.

Let's just say I'm not a complete noob. I can get kills in most of the time, but he almost always beats me.

Also, my mains are Captain Falcon, Mario, Zelda and Wolf. I sometimes just use Random when I'm bored.

Try letting him attack you. I don't mean take hits either. I mean let him approach you and react to his advancements. If he is standing off to the side spamming lasers, then Down Dodge (on the ground) each laser blast until he is tired of missing and comes at you. This may frustrate him causing him to think even a little less and make quicker less thought out decisions. This is a pretty generalized method, but experiment with it. It may work.

 

[Rx-]

MK doesn't have hard matchups.

Play MK and you'll be set for life, esp. if you and your opponents are newbs.

Unless your opponents are ALSO MKs.

 

[Remzi]

You obviously have never played a good Falco.

Marth has an easier time maneuvering past laser spam than some characters, because he has good aerial speed. That still doesn't change the fact that Marth is the approacher, and Falco is the one who holds all the tools. If the Falco flat out wants to win, he can SHDL and Phantasm away when you get close. The only way around this is to out predict Falco, which leaves you at a disadvantage.

He as an advantage because of his disjointed sword, yes, but the whole game doesn't revolve around close quarters combat. Especially when playing Falco. Let also not forget that Marth has problems knocking Falco out, more so than Falco does against Marth. Marths recovery is also sub par compared to Falcos.

For the record, 60:40 is fairly "near even" to my standards. I don't know about you.

Since when does is character who is approaching at an automatic disadvantage? Phantasm is not unstoppable, or even close to that. Implying that he can simply avoid any situation via phantasm is absurd. It has some startup and cooldown lag and can be stopped midway with jab, nair, fair, or whatever really. If phantasm was so unstoppable; Falco would counter MK.

Fact of the matter is that Marth will be in his face for most of the match. And when he is in Falco's face, he leaves him with virtually no safe options. Neither of them can kill each other well, so that doesn't really matter. Marth is a better punisher, he even has early combos that match Falco's dthrow setups. Falco has a slighty better recovery then Marth, but Marth's edgeguarding is much more devestating to Falco than vice versa. Even if Marth doesn't have an easy time gimping Falco, he can deal a lot of damage before Falco gets back onto the ledge.

 

[Teran]

Marth deals with laser pressure pretty well. Anyway, I won't really talk that much about that matchup.

Kirby and Ice Climbers are better Falco counters imo. ICs are the only character that can force Falco to approach. Unfortunately for Falco, getting close to ICs is not a very good prospect.
Marth has an advantage over Falco, but you're better off with Kirby or ICs if you can play them well.

 

[UTDZac]

If ledgecamping isn't banned, G&W wins hands down.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I lol'd at all the trolls that reply'd to my post.

 

[mimic_king]

If ledgecamping isn't banned, G&W wins hands down.

Now this is what i call a post. G&W could probably win without ledge camping anyway.

 

[Vanst]

Falcos have a hard time dealing with ROB because of his airgame so I would try ROB out. And to anyone that has said MK, Falco and MK are a 50/50 matchup.

 

[Falconv1.0]

If ledgecamping isn't banned, G&W wins hands down.

Since when is camping banned.

 

[Insetick]

I read the first 4 pages, and I only saw a lot of fighting with Falconv1.0
So I didn't read the rest of the thread, but I can contribute with what I know.

I don't know who reedkmeister uses, but he asked for tips too. I'd recommend reading up on DI to avoid juggling. Also, Falco can bait an air dodge with his u-air then follow up with another aerial (I hear that this really works) so while Falco can't combo, he can juggle an opponent.

 

[Izaw]

L2p Link :] :]

 

[Darxmarth23]

I would go marth or kirby.

Its up to you though.

 

[Dark Ryu]

Kirby's the man you need. Seriously

 

[ExCeL 52]

Definitely Link lol... Or Ganondorf... Totally.

Jk Kirby, Marth.

 

[TEECO]

Go the the Character Boards.

 

[Ulevo]

Since when does is character who is approaching at an automatic disadvantage? Phantasm is not unstoppable, or even close to that. Implying that he can simply avoid any situation via phantasm is absurd. It has some startup and cooldown lag and can be stopped midway with jab, nair, fair, or whatever really. If phantasm was so unstoppable; Falco would counter MK.

Fact of the matter is that Marth will be in his face for most of the match. And when he is in Falco's face, he leaves him with virtually no safe options. Neither of them can kill each other well, so that doesn't really matter. Marth is a better punisher, he even has early combos that match Falco's dthrow setups. Falco has a slighty better recovery then Marth, but Marth's edgeguarding is much more devestating to Falco than vice versa. Even if Marth doesn't have an easy time gimping Falco, he can deal a lot of damage before Falco gets back onto the ledge.

You really have no clue what you're talking about. You're going based on theory, or some pretty bad Falcos.

I just came back from a tournament yesterday, and I faced a Falco who did nothing but simply spam SHDL and Phantasm. For a player who wasn't very skilled, he made it quite far into the brackets, and even 2-0'd me in pools (largely due to an HD TV mind you). He made it farther than I did actually, and I was the one responsible for knocking him into losers bracket. He got a lot of people peeved, and only lost to one other player (Ice Climbers main). Why? He used a tactic that works, and is very hard to counter.

My entire game basically devolved down to Dair camping and Mach Tornado on Smashville. Falco does not counter Meta Knight. However, Falco will easily beat a Meta Knight by being "gay" for lack of a better term, if you don't out gay him yourself.

I'm not claiming he can avoid any situation with Phantasm. I'm stating that he forces you to approach with Lasers, and once you're just outside sword reach, he'll Phantasm you. You have to be a certain distance away from Falco in order to intercept or stop Phantasm. You're not fast enough to catch up too him, there is very little lag on the move at all, especially if the player is smart about their controller scheme and puts Jump and Special in an optimal set to do it efficiently. Why you think there isn't minimal lag is beyond me. The entire match devolves down to predicting when Falco will Phantasm when you finally get past the lasers, and you can't do that for a whole three stocks. He'll kill you.

Fact: Marth will not be up in Falcos face most of the match. Not if the Falco doesn't want to be. Unless you counterpick a solid stage against Falco, he's going to be playing chicken, and there isn't much Marth can do about that. I really don't care what your character board statistics have to say. Go to a tournament and fight a really spam based Falco.