Anonymous Survey

[Infinitysmash]

I got to play a couple against AndyG and had a money match with Blackwaltz at CoT4; I've come to the conclusion that the trick to beating Olimar is approaching him. You have to outsmart your opponent and read their actions to get past Olimar's near-perfect camp ability, but once you do he's actually easy to beat up on and kill.

The Snake vs Metaknight matchup actually heavily favors Snake on paper; actual-practice may vary depending on player skill. If you look at the kill percentages (85% with no DI on Final D with a fresh up tilt; something in the mid 90s with DI IIRC) and how many of Snake's moves beat Metaknights and how easy it is to beat them then you'll have an appreciation for how hard Metaknight has to work to win that match. The "omg you can gimp him so easy" argument is actually taken into account here; Metaknight has to get those early kills to be able to make the match almost even. One jab to forward tilt from Snake puts Metaknight at roughly 1/3 of the needed damage to kill him. Metaknight actually has to work very hard to beat Snake.

 

[_Phloat_]

I wrote a poem regarding this topic.

**** Diddy Kong.

**** him.

****ing bananas.

****

 

[Popertop]

I know that I was saying you just have to play smart.
And I don't mean average smart I mean really smart.

Player skill does factor heavily into it though.

And diddy kong really isn't that bad.
Just learn banana game and don't let him gain momentum.

There are a ton of matchups he has where if you let him gain momentum, you're ****ed.
Not just Meta. Lucario, Toon, Donkey Kong, a couple others.

 

[_Phloat_]

I know. I didn't say it was the worst, just my least favorite. I hate how I can be swinging a friggin sword and a banana goes through it.

 

[Popertop]

lol
banana goes through Aura Sphere.
AURA SPHERE

still hits him though.

 

[DMG]

MK beats everyone with planking. Without it, I'd say Olimar, Diddy, Snake, and Wario are the closest.

I do not think Snake has the advantage over MK. I think MK has a slight advantage overall, with a huge advantage when he gets Snake in the air/offstage. Not even on Snake's best stages do I think he has the advantage over MK.

Olimar is really good vs MK just because of his really good camping and good range on his attacks. I think he could beat MK when he is played near perfectly, anything short and he will not win usually.

Wario is weird, I can't explain why I think he does well vs MK, I just have to play it out myself. There are certain weak points on MK that Wario can exploit really well, and Wario is too good at punishing mistakes. That and being able to kill MK around 50% with a nearly fully charged surprise Waft is also a big plus.

Diddy can do great vs MK, but he has to really camp to win. He can't be trying to dash attack all over the place or always glide toss forwards, he has to play it second by second to win. Diddy also has trouble against MK on a lot of CP stages.

 

[raptyrX]

Pika!!!!! Ow Pika!!!!! Oww!!!!!!!! Pikaaa!!!!!!!! Stop It Already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[WingedKnight]

I agree with Phloat on Diddy. Probably the most annoying. Not the worst, but one of his tougher matches too. (Neutral, slight favor either way?). But it is one of his most ANNOYING. And if the Meta gets ticked and starts to play sloppy, Diddy can pull ahead.
I still stand firm that Snake is Meta's worst, and I think its bad enough to be called a disadvantage. MK may have the upperhand in the air, but I think when you factor in everything, notably kill percents and campy projectiles for Snake, its a bad matchup for Meta. You really have to work, and it takes smart playing. Even RedHalberd admits Snake is MK's worst, though he doesn't seem to think its as bad. LOL
DMG brings up an interesting point with Wario. I have played any beast Warios yet. But he is a great punisher, strong, fairly quick, GREAT airgame...Hmmmmmm...

 

[Popertop]

if you haven't played a beast Wario then expect to lose BADLY

 

[WingedKnight]

I'll mentally prepare myself! XD
I LOVE Wario as a character. He really is excellent. And the more I think about it, the more I realize he DOES have some hefty advantages over MK. I'd figure it a neutral matchup depending on skill, maybe twill shift in time. Who knows? The game continues to evolve...and thankfully Meta Knight is becoming less godly.

 

[Aiko]

I think what wario has over MK is air mobility. He is able to weave in and out, making it a game of cat and mouse. I've mained both wario and MK at some point and Ive never had difficulty with either match up. I think it is down to player skill, although the relationship between air mobility and air priority, in terms of aerial superiority, isnt clearly defined yet

 

[_Phloat_]

From what I have heard, proper use of the nair (Rare sometimes) is something that really, really gives Wario problems.

 

[iRjOn]

I when playing MK have trouble with 1 character.
The gayest character imo.
Falco
>:[

 

[Solei]

Ike... he's just... overused.

EDIT: So is R.O.B.

 

[Kamikaze*]

I'll mentally prepare myself! XD
I LOVE Wario as a character. He really is excellent. And the more I think about it, the more I realize he DOES have some hefty advantages over MK. I'd figure it a neutral matchup depending on skill, maybe twill shift in time. Who knows? The game continues to evolve...and thankfully Meta Knight is becoming less godly.

Yeah, I think it's 50:50 too. Wario is usually on the ground about...2% of the time. Abusing the hell out of his air mobility and all that, one might as well say he's faster than meta in this match-up.

 

[Vel]

Pit - I hate the arrow spam

I actually like playing against Snake - I know his moveset pretty well and feel comfortable dodging his grenades and remembering where he planted his charges, etc. THe only thing about him I can't stand is how hard it is to send him flying

 

[Zodac]

olimar is the worst for me, he owns you on the the stage them you finally get him off the stage for an easy gimp, it's so un-rewarding.

faclo is annoying.
pit is annoying.

 

[DMG]

From what I have heard, proper use of the nair (Rare sometimes) is something that really, really gives Wario problems.

Naw, I don't find Nair that threatening in most circumstances.

I also don't think Snake is a disadvantage for MK. I've started to notice how useful grounded Upb really is vs Snake.

Say he shield drops a grenade, see's you approaching, and shields. If he shields, he'll just about beat any attack you do, but he is vulnerable to grabs. If he spotdodges, he beats grabs but is vulnerable to attacks that can hit him while he is vulnerable during the spotdodge lag. He can also try to grab or attack you OOS. If he rolls, you obviously miss with the Upb or your grab but he also can't punish you for doing it. He's also vulnerable rolling if you keep running right at him and chase his roll.

Since he has a grenade on the ground near him, grounded Upb takes care of a lot of those situations. The invincibility frames prevent MK from getting grabbed, so grab loses to Upb. Attacking OOS also loses to it just like the grab does. Spot dodging has a good chance of failure since MK's Upb will hit the nade, delay the Upb hitbox and the grenade hitbox, where the grenade hitbox might linger long enough to catch Snake while he is vulnerable. If you hit his shield, you take out a chunk of it with the nade exploding and the Upb hitbox. If you have it spaced well, it will be hard for him to punish your Upb since both hitboxs (Upb and Nade) will push him back in his shield and give him a bit of shield stun.

Now, if he doesn't lay a grenade, then he can't camp you and you still beat or go safely against half of his options with grounded Upb. I certainly don't see Snake having the advantage without some form of camping MK, especially without grenades.

 

[Bobby Emerald]

Snake and Olimar, definitely. The occasional ROB or Kirby can be annoying too.

 

[Rawnie]

Snake and Olimar, definitely. The occasional ROB or Kirby can be annoying too.

Snake, Marth, and Oli

 

[WingedKnight]

These responses remind me why I don't like the ratios on the matchup thread. The thread itself is great, lots of useful info for tougher characters, but they seem to refuse to put a matchup as 50:50 or (O NOEZ IMPOSSIBLE!!1!!) 55:45/60:40 against Meta. They seem to think, "well this one is clearly at least neutral...let's say its 55:45 Meta favor becuase he's MK and he's that awesome." Come on guys. We're the best char in the game, but we know we're not unstoppable, tell it like it is! XD His neutral matchups are neutral, and I'm certain he has disadvantageous ones. Whatever, its not like the ratios (or for that matter, the tier list) are the end-all-be-all.

 

[hdrevolution123]

I've played some pretty hefty Snakes therefore I'd say I hate playing the serious campers like ROB and Snake.

My WORST OF ALL is that f***ing bird Falco. He's SOOO annoying. I need to somehow train myself to that matchup cos I'm fed up of getting my MK pwned by a Falco!

 

[WingedKnight]

I'm sorry I keep posting to pretty much everyone's replies, but I always have something to say! Hope it doesn't bother anyone, just trying to contribute.
Notice who Meta has trouble with? I see a pattern here: Snake, Olimar, ROB, Falco, Diddy. Meta Knight's biggest weakness is approaching campers. Camping is probably the best way to beat MK. Admittedly, Kirby and Wario are tough for him and they break the pattern, but the reason they do well is because they have great airgames and maneuverability, plus more killing power than Meta Knight does.
Solid campers and air fighters are Meta Knight's bane.

EDIT: I left Olimar off my list of campers! WTH?!? XD

 

[hdrevolution123]

I'm sorry I keep posting to pretty much everyone's replies, but I always have something to say! Hope it doesn't bother anyone, just trying to contribute.
Notice who Meta has trouble with? I see a pattern here: Snake, ROB, Falco, Diddy. Meta Knight's biggest weakness is approaching campers. Camping is probably the best way to beat MK. Admittedly, Kirby and Wario are tough for him and they break the pattern, but the reason they do well is because they have great airgames and maneuverability, plus more killing power than Meta Knight does.
Solid campers and air fighters are Meta Knight's bane.

You speak the Truth WingedKnight

 

[_MidnighT_]

From what I have heard, proper use of the nair (Rare sometimes) is something that really, really gives Wario problems.

uair does too.

i hate playing falcos. lasers are annoying

 

[WingedKnight]

You speak the Truth WingedKnight

Truth, with a capital T, Colbert style! But this statement is not based purely off truthiness, it is fact. Meta Knight has weaknesses! Said it before, say it now, will probably have to say it again. He is not cheap or broken by any means at all, though even I'll admit he was looking pretty unstoppable for a while. But, as always, things level out, and people come to their senses. This thread is a monument to the fact that most of the community finally accepts that MK has disadvantages, albeit not quite as large as others.

 

[pixelbind]

After I played with a good IC today

I can officially say I hate ice climbers.

0% straight to ko -.-

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

D-air desync to **** nana ftw, also he may have neutral or near neutral matchups, but I dont feel he has any disadvantageous matchups. He may have trouble with campers but that do not shut him down hardly at all.

 

[WingedKnight]

Maybe bane was too strong a word. XD
True, campers do not shut him down. But I still believe he has disadvantages against a few of them. A disadvantageous matchup doesnt mean you go in and you get *****. It just means is tougher to win and you have to fight really smart. I think this is true for people like Snake. Snake is an other example, he has like two disadvantageous matchups and neither is worse than 40:60, which can't even really be called "bad", just tricky. I feel that MK is the same way, enough neutral and likely disadvantageous matchups to keep him from being unstoppable, but nothing that crushes him in his tracks.

 

[brinboy789]

diddy. i play this one guy in my clan and i cant beat him i even tried wario/bowser(lol)/diddydittos/marth/ROB i just cant beat him lol. wario came closest cause i could eat his nanerz >_>

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

diddy. i play this one guy in my clan and i cant beat him i even tried wario/bowser(lol)/diddydittos/marth/ROB i just cant beat him lol. wario came closest cause i could eat his nanerz >_>

Lol my friend always plays wario against my diddy just to chomp nanerz lol.

I still dont feel snake is a disadvantage. His projectiles are fairily easy to avoid and once snake gets off the ground snake is at a huge disadvantage. Its one of his harder match-ups but if you get a lead mk can camp too at a fair distance just like wario can (maybe not as good due to air mobility) and it is a very effective strat.

 

[Popertop]

diddy. i play this one guy in my clan and i cant beat him i even tried wario/bowser(lol)/diddydittos/marth/ROB i just cant beat him lol. wario came closest cause i could eat his nanerz >_>

*sigh*

LEARN NANER GAME

*beats brinboy over the head with a mallet with a picture of a banana on it*

 

[Asdioh]

Glad to see a couple "Kirby" mentions in here :]

I play Kirby, not Metaknight, but it seems my two "least favorite" characters transfer over: Diddy and Olimar. If you're talking about characters that shouldn't be in the game, I can't believe nobody mentioned Olimar. So lame. And Diddy wouldn't be too bad if his bananas weren't so stupidly overpowered.

Protip: if you guys are having trouble against Falco, pick Kirby. I know it sounds crazy to change your character choice to a "lesser" character since you main Meta Knight, but I find Falco to be easy. And you can duck under his lasers, and laugh.
Or Copy his lasers and camp him back.
And just own him in general.

 

[d4bA]

Snake and olimar (on specific stages) are the only characters that go even with MK (imo). The difference that sways these characters to have a solid advantage is the numerous # of counterpick stages. They influence the matchups to a large degree.