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Angles in Melee

Discussion in 'Melee Discussion' started by ajp_anton, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Smash Lord

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    The commentators at Apex 2012 mentioned the possible angles of Fox's up+B in a match somewhere, and it reminded me... how many people actually know how many angles there are?

    Just checking, I'll give the correct answer later =).
    Swedes aren't allowed to "guess".


    edit:
    Answer found in this post:
    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=13908836#post13908836
     
  2. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    16 angles
    16 chars
     
    Fortress | Sveet likes this.
  3. -ShadowPhoenix-

    -ShadowPhoenix-
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    Smash Bash

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  4. Pengie

    Pengie
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    Smash Lord

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    Either 16 or 24 because I can't remember if in between the in between angles register as unique angles.
     
  5. t3h Icy

    t3h Icy
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    Smash Master

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  6. -ShadowPhoenix-

    -ShadowPhoenix-
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    Smash Bash

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    teach me the secrets of bypassing the character limit
     
  7. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Smash Lord

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    Since everyone has been wrong so far, I'll give you a hint:

    SDI, Airdodge, and the up+Bs of Fox, Falco, Sheik, Zelda, Mewtwo, Pikachu and Pichu all share the exact same set of angles. There could be more, but those are the ones I've tested.
     
  8. Varist

    Varist
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  9. Rostigalen

    Rostigalen
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    Smash Journeyman

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    NOPE

    10ChuckTestas
     
  10. Fuss

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    Need moar angels. :secretkpop:
     
  11. Krynxe

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    I can't pronounce it either

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    *****es don't know 'bout my angles. :cool:
     
  12. Fernandez

    Fernandez
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  13. Kal

    Kal
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    Just quote one of their posts and all will be clear.
     
  14. Akuma

    Akuma
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    On point.
    360 angles.
     
    Drodeka likes this.
  15. Kal

    Kal
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    Math fail, or just trolling?
     
    Fortress | Sveet likes this.
  16. Beat!

    Beat!
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    Smash Master

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    Haha

    Some of you guys are gonna be hella surprised
     
    hi im 47 and Grim Tuesday like this.
  17. Ørn

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    I have lurked the Swedish forums enough to know this.

    Don't worry though, I won't spoil it. Good to see some clarification on what is influenced by those angles though.
     
  18. Jonas

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    Ballpark

    hmm 5 million

    Btw I honestly though there was only 8 SDI directions (one for each corner), but I know there are way more for different Up B's, DI etc.
     
  19. kalamazhu

    kalamazhu
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    infinite???
     
  20. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Smash Lord

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    Just wanted to see if anyone had even the slightest idea to make an approximate guess. I was surprised a while ago when I talked to some people and they really thought there were 16.

    Only two answers have even been within an order of magnitude, and one of them is really close. But it's only close because there are large areas with impossible angles. If the whole circle was filled with the same angle density as the areas which actually have angles, it would be a bit more even...

    I'll post a nice picture of this later today.
     
  21. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Smash Lord

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    So, to my surprise, most people were completely wrong. The following image illustrates the possible angles in Melee:
    http://ajpanton.se/ssbm/Others/directions.png

    The angles themselves apply for (the ones I've tested):
    SmashDI, Airdodge, up+B with Fox, Falco, Zelda, Sheik, Pichu, Pikachu and Mewtwo.
    The length of the lines represent the possible lengths of SmashDI, and the number of lengths are limited by the resolution of the control stick (which is actually too low to even allow all possible angles for the shortest distances).

    The large areas without possible angles are rounded to the nearest right angle to prevent accidental aims slightly "off-axis" (and unfortunately make it harder to get that perfect 17-degree angle).

    My measurements aren't 100% perfect because of the control stick resolution, but they are good enough to see that the angles aren't evenly spaced (so this is not the result of the poor resolution).

    Quick facts:
    - There are a total of 352 possible angles.
    - Within about ±17° from every right angle, the closest right angle will be used instead.
    - In other areas the angles are spaced on average 0,65° from each other.
    - The angle-differences fluctuate pretty evenly between 0,3° and 1,0° and are located randomly as far as I can see.
    - The same pattern is repeated (and mirrored) for every 45-degree sector.
    - SmashDI can be shortened down to 70% of its full length, with the number of intermediate lengths only limited by the control stick.
     
    Vestboy_Myst, ZenKai, Thor and 12 others like this.
  22. Bones0

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    Melee is such a tease. "Oh, sorry, you were off by 0.3°. You lose."
     
    looking guy and fennel69 like this.
  23. Varist

    Varist
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    **** you it's 16
     
  24. felipe_9595

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    ^^ This

    10 this
     
  25. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Can't tell if trolling, but I could provide screenshots of the 44 different positions for the first 45 degrees if you're serious.
     
  26. Stratocaster

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    I'd like to see the proof myself. Not that I don't believe you, I just want to see how you determined that so precisely.
     
  27. ajp_anton

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    I've deleted the screenshots so I'll have to do that later.

    I used TAS (Dolphin) and the AR code for debug mode.
    With debug mode, you can position the camera however you want, and it won't move. Put the character in the middle, and save the game state. Then do lots of up+Bs, airdodges or whatever, going through all possible control stick positions, and take screenshots. Remove duplicates.
    Write some Avisynth code to load the screenshots and output the position of the character, just to check that the in-game angle corresponds exactly to the angle of the control stick (it does, so no complicated mapping is happening).
     
  28. Composeur

    Composeur
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    LOL @ AJP upending the entire smash community's most basic assumptions about melee 11 years after the game's release. (Isn't this game SO GOOD?!) Thanks for the...disillusionment. <3
     
  29. Xyzz

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    you, dear sir, have too much free time on your hands!

    Keep up the good work ;)
     
  30. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Well for me it has been obvious from the very beginning that there are waaaay more than 16 directions, and as soon as I started doing BtT with AR years ago, I realized there are so many that even with time to position the stick, it's impossible to reliably hit the same direction twice. Also with AR I noticed there had to be some kind of auto-aim for the (mod 90)-degree angles.
    And I've always thought that was common knowledge, until like a week ago, and now I heard the Apex commentators mention the "really hard to hit 22.5-degree angle", so I started this thread.
     
  31. Varist

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    funny thing, i actually always hit the 22.5 degree angle when i want it. does that make me exceptionally good at melee? if i have secret power i want to know. don't keep it a secret from everybody.
     
  32. Jonas

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    What do you like pause the game and whip out a ****ing protractor?
     
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  33. ajp_anton

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    Define "the 22.5 degree angle". How do you know which one of the (checks my list) 21.7, 22.2, 22.5, 23.1 or 23.7 degree angles you're hitting? Or one even farther away?

    Hitting approx. 22.5 degrees isn't hard at all =). Hitting the magical 17.1 degrees is =).
     
    niffyjiffy likes this.
  34. Varist

    Varist
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    then i have no power

    [​IMG]
     
  35. Twix

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    It's ok Varist, we still love you.

    I think..
     
  36. ajp_anton

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    I don't. He's only hitting the 22.5-degree angle.
     
  37. Strong Bad

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    lolol people seriously thought it was 16?
     
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  38. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Smash Lord

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    I should make a list of angles for more characters. For example, I know from BtT TAS experience that DrMario has in the order of 100 angles on his up+B.
    Those are a bit more difficult to measure though, as the upwards direction is automatic and you only control it horizontally (in contrast to pointing the stick in the exact direction), but maybe I can use Avisynth scripting again to locate the exact position of the character before and after the up+B.
     
    SUNG475 and Kadano like this.
  39. looking guy

    looking guy
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    so do you mean fox/falco up+B can go in 352 different directions?? and what do you mean by "right angle"??
     
    #39 looking guy, Aug 13, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  40. MrHazuki

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    Yes, they can travel in 352 different directions.
    By "right angle" he means left, right, up and down.
     

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