Angles in Melee

ajp_anton

Smash Lord
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#7
Since everyone has been wrong so far, I'll give you a hint:

SDI, Airdodge, and the up+Bs of Fox, Falco, Sheik, Zelda, Mewtwo, Pikachu and Pichu all share the exact same set of angles. There could be more, but those are the ones I've tested.
 

Ørn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
212
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Denmark
#17
I have lurked the Swedish forums enough to know this.

Don't worry though, I won't spoil it. Good to see some clarification on what is influenced by those angles though.
 

Jonas

Smash Champion
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Aug 21, 2008
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#18
Ballpark

hmm 5 million

Btw I honestly though there was only 8 SDI directions (one for each corner), but I know there are way more for different Up B's, DI etc.
 

ajp_anton

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#20
Just wanted to see if anyone had even the slightest idea to make an approximate guess. I was surprised a while ago when I talked to some people and they really thought there were 16.

Only two answers have even been within an order of magnitude, and one of them is really close. But it's only close because there are large areas with impossible angles. If the whole circle was filled with the same angle density as the areas which actually have angles, it would be a bit more even...

I'll post a nice picture of this later today.
 

ajp_anton

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#21
So, to my surprise, most people were completely wrong. The following image illustrates the possible angles in Melee:
http://ajpanton.se/ssbm/Others/directions.png

The angles themselves apply for (the ones I've tested):
SmashDI, Airdodge, up+B with Fox, Falco, Zelda, Sheik, Pichu, Pikachu and Mewtwo.
The length of the lines represent the possible lengths of SmashDI, and the number of lengths are limited by the resolution of the control stick (which is actually too low to even allow all possible angles for the shortest distances).

The large areas without possible angles are rounded to the nearest right angle to prevent accidental aims slightly "off-axis" (and unfortunately make it harder to get that perfect 17-degree angle).

My measurements aren't 100% perfect because of the control stick resolution, but they are good enough to see that the angles aren't evenly spaced (so this is not the result of the poor resolution).

Quick facts:
- There are a total of 352 possible angles.
- Within about ±17° from every right angle, the closest right angle will be used instead.
- In other areas the angles are spaced on average 0,65° from each other.
- The angle-differences fluctuate pretty evenly between 0,3° and 1,0° and are located randomly as far as I can see.
- The same pattern is repeated (and mirrored) for every 45-degree sector.
- SmashDI can be shortened down to 70% of its full length, with the number of intermediate lengths only limited by the control stick.
 

ajp_anton

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#25
Can't tell if trolling, but I could provide screenshots of the 44 different positions for the first 45 degrees if you're serious.
 

ajp_anton

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#27
I've deleted the screenshots so I'll have to do that later.

I used TAS (Dolphin) and the AR code for debug mode.
With debug mode, you can position the camera however you want, and it won't move. Put the character in the middle, and save the game state. Then do lots of up+Bs, airdodges or whatever, going through all possible control stick positions, and take screenshots. Remove duplicates.
Write some Avisynth code to load the screenshots and output the position of the character, just to check that the in-game angle corresponds exactly to the angle of the control stick (it does, so no complicated mapping is happening).
 
Joined
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Messages
518
#28
LOL @ AJP upending the entire smash community's most basic assumptions about melee 11 years after the game's release. (Isn't this game SO GOOD?!) Thanks for the...disillusionment. <3
 

Xyzz

Smash Champion
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Gensokyan Embassy, Munich, Germany
#29
I've deleted the screenshots so I'll have to do that later.

I used TAS (Dolphin) and the AR code for debug mode.
With debug mode, you can position the camera however you want, and it won't move. Put the character in the middle, and save the game state. Then do lots of up+Bs, airdodges or whatever, going through all possible control stick positions, and take screenshots. Remove duplicates.
Write some Avisynth code to load the screenshots and output the position of the character, just to check that the in-game angle corresponds exactly to the angle of the control stick (it does, so no complicated mapping is happening).
you, dear sir, have too much free time on your hands!

Keep up the good work ;)
 

ajp_anton

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#30
Well for me it has been obvious from the very beginning that there are waaaay more than 16 directions, and as soon as I started doing BtT with AR years ago, I realized there are so many that even with time to position the stick, it's impossible to reliably hit the same direction twice. Also with AR I noticed there had to be some kind of auto-aim for the (mod 90)-degree angles.
And I've always thought that was common knowledge, until like a week ago, and now I heard the Apex commentators mention the "really hard to hit 22.5-degree angle", so I started this thread.
 

Varist

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Joined
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#31
funny thing, i actually always hit the 22.5 degree angle when i want it. does that make me exceptionally good at melee? if i have secret power i want to know. don't keep it a secret from everybody.
 

ajp_anton

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#33
funny thing, i actually always hit the 22.5 degree angle when i want it. does that make me exceptionally good at melee? if i have secret power i want to know. don't keep it a secret from everybody.
Define "the 22.5 degree angle". How do you know which one of the (checks my list) 21.7, 22.2, 22.5, 23.1 or 23.7 degree angles you're hitting? Or one even farther away?

Hitting approx. 22.5 degrees isn't hard at all =). Hitting the magical 17.1 degrees is =).
 

ajp_anton

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#38
I should make a list of angles for more characters. For example, I know from BtT TAS experience that DrMario has in the order of 100 angles on his up+B.
Those are a bit more difficult to measure though, as the upwards direction is automatic and you only control it horizontally (in contrast to pointing the stick in the exact direction), but maybe I can use Avisynth scripting again to locate the exact position of the character before and after the up+B.
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
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Location
Bolivar City, Venezuela
#39
So, to my surprise, most people were completely wrong. The following image illustrates the possible angles in Melee:
http://ajpanton.se/ssbm/Others/directions.png

The angles themselves apply for (the ones I've tested):
SmashDI, Airdodge, up+B with Fox, Falco, Zelda, Sheik, Pichu, Pikachu and Mewtwo.
The length of the lines represent the possible lengths of SmashDI, and the number of lengths are limited by the resolution of the control stick (which is actually too low to even allow all possible angles for the shortest distances).

The large areas without possible angles are rounded to the nearest right angle to prevent accidental aims slightly "off-axis" (and unfortunately make it harder to get that perfect 17-degree angle).

My measurements aren't 100% perfect because of the control stick resolution, but they are good enough to see that the angles aren't evenly spaced (so this is not the result of the poor resolution).

Quick facts:
- There are a total of 352 possible angles.
- Within about ±17° from every right angle, the closest right angle will be used instead.
- In other areas the angles are spaced on average 0,65° from each other.
- The angle-differences fluctuate pretty evenly between 0,3° and 1,0° and are located randomly as far as I can see.
- The same pattern is repeated (and mirrored) for every 45-degree sector.
- SmashDI can be shortened down to 70% of its full length, with the number of intermediate lengths only limited by the control stick.
so do you mean fox/falco up+B can go in 352 different directions?? and what do you mean by "right angle"??
 
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