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That's true! Pretty cool, though how exactly did you notice that? I assume you weren't rocking back and forth catatonically.• Move your head towards and away from the screen while centering your view on the main match-up chart. It appears to me like it appears somewhat spherical, in an interesting optical illusion.
learn to DI, sheik can't chaingrab donkey kong. lmaophanna:
Sheik is a Ganon counter 5-0 no doubt. All shiek has to do is get one grab and gannon is chain grabbed 0 to death. Grabbing gannon is no problem for shiek either.
Ganon also counters the living hell out of DK. I'd say 5-2. Dk's shield cannot block any of gannons moves. ANY. NONE.
And Shiek counters DK too, in a 0 to death chain grabbing way.
although this is true, pika's grab ranges is one of the worst in the game, and falco's not getting grabbed game is arguably the best in the game. it's true that 30-40% grab is basically a stock, but that won't happen very often.You should note that Fox/Falco/Falcon can all be chaingrabbed by Pichu, that matchup is more even then the chart makes it appear (well, still in favor in Fox/Falco/Falco).
Pikachu versus Falco is also quite even, a grab after Falco is over 30-40% will ussually lead to the Falco's death (chain grab until you can upsmash, its that easy).
I want the chart to provide a general idea of character matchups based on players of equal, talented skill. I think it does that, and I'm not really interested in basardizing the chart with more than the spectrum of 1 color to another -- I'm aware of how you can't necissarily tell exactly what 1 matchup is, but I kind of like it that way. I want a chart that makes sense from a distance, and flows nicely.about the chart - its really good but the colors should be a little more varied.
Good to know about Pichu, I'll probably increase those 3 matchups by 1 point (still will be unfavorable obviously).You should note that Fox/Falco/Falcon can all be chaingrabbed by Pichu, that matchup is more even then the chart makes it appear (well, still in favor in Fox/Falco/Falco).
Pikachu versus Falco is also quite even, a grab after Falco is over 30-40% will ussually lead to the Falco's death (chain grab until you can upsmash, its that easy).
Still, it's currently in there as a 1-5 match-up, so I think moving it to 2-5 would be reasonablePika gets hard countered by Falco
Haha no thank goodness, actually when I was working on it I would be copying the colored square and moving it to a different match-up, so I'd lean in toward the screen to get it positioned at the exact right pixel (which I've already noticed I messed up in one spot and will be fixed for the next update).That's true! Pretty cool, though how exactly did you notice that? I assume you weren't rocking back and forth catatonically.
I'll move it down from 2-5 to 1-5 for now, if people want it down more later we'll address that.Sheik is a Ganon counter 5-0 no doubt. All shiek has to do is get one grab and gannon is chain grabbed 0 to death. Grabbing gannon is no problem for shiek either.
Again I like being overly conservative, so good point, but I'll drop it from even to 3-5 for now (not just avoiding your suggestions, just doing what I think is right based on your info).Ganon also counters the living hell out of DK. I'd say 5-2. Dk's shield cannot block any of gannons moves. ANY. NONE.
And Shiek counters DK too, in a 0 to death chain grabbing way.
It's currently a 2-5 match-up, does that seem fair or should a tournament DK expect to win only 1 match out of 5 versus a sheik?learn to DI, sheik can't chaingrab donkey kong. lmao
Thanks, and yeah I'll move it up to 5-1.It's definately an advantage pika matchup, but I'd rate it as 5-1 or maaaaaybe 5-2 for pika, not full-blown 5-0.
All his other matchups look pretty spot on. Again nice work with this all.
Tope and N64 have said Pika is a soft counter for CF. Right now it's rated that a tournament Pikachu could expect to go 5-4 versus a tournament Falcon.Phanna rules :D This is a good list imho. Though, Falcon losing to Luigi and Pikachu? O_O
I'll move it to 1-5, but the last person I would want to play as Yoshi in a tournament would be able Ice Climbers.I'm not saying this matchup is in Yoshi's favor or even--it certainly isn't 5-0 in favor of the ICs, though.
I don't think the two are directly comparable, since most of his is white blocks since it's a counter chart. But if you have any actual examples of where I could improve, that would help me a lot more than just saying that mine is less accurate.1048576's list is more accurate IMO.
If you look at a given box, you can tell roughly how the match-up looks in the tournament scene. If you step back you can get an excellent overall picture. The color scheme does exactly what I want it to, so I'm going to leave it alone, but thank you for your feedback.Use the whole visible spectrum, not just green/red. It would be easier to recognize different colours than slightly different shades of green and red. Or perhaps a numerical representation (the difference between the first number and the 2nd; 5 would be a strong matchup, 0 would be even, -5 would be horrible).
All you have to do is DI away and Donkey Kong can tech out of it before sheik can grab again.lmao yes she can.
From what I can remember Bum was messing Tipman up at MLG NY.Ganon also counters the living hell out of DK. I'd say 5-2. Dk's shield cannot block any of gannons moves. ANY. NONE.
in theory, the tier list is based on metagame, which in turn translates into how well a character generally fairs against other characters.a thought:
shouldnt a counter chart represent the analytic point of view of the tier list?
if you take the matchups and represent them using numbers from 1(worst/0-5) to 11(best/5-0)
then accumulate the number's up in each row
then add the numbers together to get a number for each character.
when you read the numbers as you would top to bottom on a tier list, the numbers SHOULD be from highest to lowest.. if not... something is wrong.
agree? disagree?
when i have time.. ill do the calculation for further analysis.
meanwhile, the list i made... when not alluding to the tier list, should still be somewhat on topic.phanna said:Thank you for your time. Since this graph is essentially an array of values 0 through 10, once we get the specifics more nailed down, I will be able to perform some very interesting matrix calculations, including a statistic tier list, and a best secondary main for each character (to counter your main's counters).