Alabama Thread! (10/26/2016 update)

[Sensai]

@ Rob: You're right, I have played a little Tekken and quite a bit of Soul Caliber II.

I had forgotten all about SC2, haha. So, I guess I have played traditional fighters before.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i played a couple of matches on the allisbrawl ladder, and I like the way its set up better than any other ladder so far.

gamebattles is ****ing ********

but they have teh moneyz

 

[Majist]

So i wanted to update Majist and j00t on my stamina-gau. (I told you about it right j00t?). It turns out I CAN use malboro majist, it's immune to about 6 ailments but it's not immune to poison, it just absorbs it. Confuse and poison from bad breath is awesome enough, does it do any other things?

Also, my stamina gau can use ninja, which is pretty awesome. Ninja and malboro makes for lots of ownage from my regenerating Gau. I've taught everyone Bio, so Gau gets a massive heal to start off. I guess ninjas are just evil enough to absorb poison... I'm still looking for something that will absorb poison and heal my whole party or absorb poison and deal heavy singe target damage, in the interest of killing bosses. Right now the best person i've got for that is Ninja... maybe i can find a ninja-evil Stray Cat!

Can anyone tell me where/what i get Mighty Guard from? It would help my Gau be more tankish.

If anyone spoils the plot to FFVI for me i will hurt them.

Sweet dude. I used to know what enemy would give you Mighty Guard, but I can't remember for the life of me. I'm not sure it's even called Mighty Guard in FF6. Something says to me it has a different name.

I hate condoning this, but you may want to just be cheap and go to gamefaqs to find out where you can get that skill. If memory serves, i think Mighty Guard can be learned as a Lore skill.

 

[popsofctown]

i've had to be lame and use gamefaqs since Vargas, for things here and there. I don't mind it, i just worry about spoilers somewhat.

I knew it was a Lore though, it's always a lore in every FF i've played. (I mean, both FF's i've played >_<)

 

[popsofctown]

Can you come over to my place today?

 

[popsofctown]

@ will that is...

 

[Kalm]

triple post deluxe


also, people actually use Gau? thats amazazing

 

[Will_]

So Chudat came down to FL and wrecked Gigabits using only Kirby, beating the best in FL and Inui's MK.

@ will that is...

While I'd like to ditch them I should be polite and do stuff until they leave. Could I come over tomorrow instead?

 

[DanGR]

Is "planking" banned at these Alabama tourneys?

This is what the SBR recommended ruleset says about stalling:

Stalling: The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling, while doing an infinite grab endlessly against a wall is. Any infinite chain grabs most end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling.

 

[popsofctown]

Dude, that definition of stalling definitely includes planking. Which should be banned anyway.

@Will- Inui sucks. I heard he loses to Sonics. With MK. Chudat is the shiznit though.

also @Will- you could probably come over tomorrow. Except we might prefer me going to your place tomorrow, since it turns out the relatives i thought were "visiting" are actually sort of "boarding". (they are too many removeds that i feel compelled to entertain them).

Whatever the case, let's try to do early, I've got an obligation at 7:00 p.m. in Madison. My phone broke, so give me your number again and i'll give you my house: 325-3609. that's a 256 of course.


@Kalm- YOU DON'T USE GAU? Gau is like the most awesome piece of awesome coolness ever. You need to go make a magic Gau. Nao. Magic Gau is awesome, get him Magic Urn, Ninja, General... there's all sorts of other awesome stuff too, my knowledge of Gau is very weak. Gau should most definitely be in smash.


It turns out poison is an increment thing. It starts out hitting for half of what regen heals you, then over time it gets up to 4 times what regen heals you. My Gau gets healed by 398 when the poison maxes out. Plus the regen makes about 500. I can't tell exactly how fast the numbers pop up, it seems to be slightly more than once a turn.

 

[DanGR]

Dude, that definition of stalling definitely includes planking. Which should be banned anyway.

Where.

10wheres

 

[popsofctown]

"The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict" so this means avoiding damage exchanges. Planking is a wild dance between shuttle loop invincibility frames and ledge invincibility frames, whist not aiming any shuttle loop hit boxes at the enemy. It clearly deliberately avoids any and all conflict.

 

[anomaly]

it looks like you could just ledgehog the g&w with decent timing? maybe i just don't play brawl though.

 

[Pika_Cam]

Are there any forms of edgeplay that are considered stalling? For instance, if Pikachu were to be hanging off the ledge, drop down, up + B back onto the ledge, and repeat. Or if Ike did the same thing with his up + B.

 

[Kalm]

I love Gau as a character, but I so very seldom orient any RPG around magic that caster based strategies are an option I wouldn't consider even if it was blatantly better. Plus I hate using Gau in battle, the punk always watches the ship for me in the end, usually with Strago. I mean, I can't see the point in spell hunting for him, because as far as I can see his magic has no real advantage over other regular magic abillites.
I guess the game is too easy for me, otherwise I'd likely be more strict on group makeup.
My first time through oh so many years ago, I believe I used Edgar, Sabin, Cyan, and Mog. My next few times through I used generally the same team, with the last character swapping out between Terra and maybe Shadow or Setzer. I realize that the first three characters are likely overused, but I can't help that I they're my favorite no matter what, and Cyan is a pimp. I don't use omega cheap tactics like vanish banish and omfg fightx8 gear combos. I actually formed a team based around the "Jump" command once, that was super fun cakes.

Why the hell did I just type so much?

 

[Duchock]

In my opinion, I see it as stalling, but by simply looking at it, it isn't stalling. Most characters, if not all of them that don't have a move called PK Thunder or Shuttle Loop, have a way to counter/prevent it. It's reaching the extremes of logic to say that if someone picks G&W (in this case), you assume that they (by legal means) plank, and that you have to counterpick someone that has a way to deal with planking effectively.

 

[DanGR]

"The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict" so this means avoiding damage exchanges. Planking is a wild dance between shuttle loop invincibility frames and ledge invincibility frames, whist not aiming any shuttle loop hit boxes at the enemy. It clearly deliberately avoids any and all conflict.

You cut off the rest of the sentence.

"The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict"... "so that one may make the game unplayable".

The game is still playable. It is possible to beat planking. It's just nearly impossible with some characters and much easier with others. IMO, it's no different than allowing DDD's infinite.

it looks like you could just ledgehog the g&w with decent timing? maybe i just don't play brawl though.

Not really. In the video I linked, Ike couldn't do anything. If he tried to ledgehog, GaW would have just naired through the invincibility frames of the hanging Ike, (if he got there before getting hit) and upb-ed afterwards.

Are there any forms of edgeplay that are considered stalling? For instance, if Pikachu were to be hanging off the ledge, drop down, up + B back onto the ledge, and repeat. Or if Ike did the same thing with his up + B.

I'm not sure, but I heard somewhere that Sonic's neutral-b stall on the underside of stages is banned. I'll look into this.

In my opinion, I see it as stalling, but by simply looking at it, it isn't stalling. Most characters, if not all of them that don't have a move called PK Thunder or Shuttle Loop, have a way to counter/prevent it. It's reaching the extremes of logic to say that if someone picks G&W (in this case), you assume that they (by legal means) plank, and that you have to counterpick someone that has a way to deal with planking effectively.

Exactly.

 

[popsofctown]

FFVI is FFVI. You can use whichever characters you feel like using and you will meet success.
I would think everyone loves Gau enough to try him in at least one playthrough. The character is awesome. I'm totally going to meet one of you guys in a supermarket and say "Pops you friend, FRIEEEND, i join you again!"

 

[popsofctown]

You cut off the rest of the sentence.

"The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict"... "so that one may make the game unplayable".

The game is still playable. It is possible to beat planking. It's just nearly impossible with some characters and much easier with others. IMO, it's no different than allowing DDD's infinite.

I thought it very likely that argument was coming next, but i left off the rest of the sentence so you could go ahead and make it first.


The problem here is your interpretation of the word "so", because that's not exactly what the word "so" means. "so" means "in order to" or "with the goal of". For example, "I bought my mother a golden necklace so she would be happy". Even if my mother became sad, the sentence is still true. That's why i bought the gold necklace, that's what i bought the necklace "with the goal of".

When one planks, he or she does indeed do it "so that one may make the game unplayable". That's the idea, if you are playing ganondorf i start planking so that we don't exchange any more damage for the rest of the match, because i'm already winning. That's my goal.

Now i probably won't reach that goal. The ganondorf will have to jump down, get smacked, and die, trying to stop the madness. It just like the gold necklace thing though, just because one doesn't reach the goal of the "so", doesn't mean that wasn't the goal in mind.

See, the "so" phrase is there because there are two conditions to stalling. One must be doing something that a. avoids all conflict and b. desires to avoid all conflict. The example given, moving across stage for a better position, fulfills the first condition but not the second, and that's why they had to put the so phrase in. Because this interests me, here's some actions protected by the so phrase:
-Charging the laser and gyro while ledge stalling (the goal is charging the projectiles)
-Ledgestalling until the Shy Guys come because you hate Snake's upsmash
-Ledgecamping for damage
-Ledgestalling while your other pokemon recover from stamina
-Even, in fact, ledgestalling for five seconds and getting back onstage because you like to screw with people. (I think in tournament it would be pretty clear how long is "screwing with people's minds" and how long is "the clock.. keeps.. ticking")

 

[popsofctown]

That might sound condescending or formal or something, because i just got back from the logic wonderland that is mafiascum. sorry

 

[DanGR]

I thought it very likely that argument was coming next, but i left off the rest of the sentence so you could go ahead and make it first.


The problem here is your interpretation of the word "so", because that's not exactly what the word "so" means. "so" means "in order to" or "with the goal of". For example, "I bought my mother a golden necklace so she would be happy". Even if my mother became sad, the sentence is still true. That's why i bought the gold necklace, that's what i bought the necklace "with the goal of".

When one planks, he or she does indeed do it "so that one may make the game unplayable". That's the idea, if you are playing ganondorf i start planking so that we don't exchange any more damage for the rest of the match, because i'm already winning. That's my goal.

Now i probably won't reach that goal. The ganondorf will have to jump down, get smacked, and die, trying to stop the madness. It just like the gold necklace thing though, just because one doesn't reach the goal of the "so", doesn't mean that wasn't the goal in mind.

See, the "so" phrase is there because there are two conditions to stalling. One must be doing something that a. avoids all conflict and b. desires to avoid all conflict. The example given, moving across stage for a better position, fulfills the first condition but not the second, and that's why they had to put the so phrase in. Because this interests me, here's some actions protected by the so phrase:
-Charging the laser and gyro while ledge stalling (the goal is charging the projectiles)
-Ledgestalling until the Shy Guys come because you hate Snake's upsmash
-Ledgecamping for damage
-Ledgestalling while your other pokemon recover from stamina
-Even, in fact, ledgestalling for five seconds and getting back onstage because you like to screw with people. (I think in tournament it would be pretty clear how long is "screwing with people's minds" and how long is "the clock.. keeps.. ticking")

The word so can also be used as a substitute for the word consequently or therefore, and so the definition the SBR recommended ruleset gave for stalling can be interpreted as "The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict- therefore making the game unplayable."

With your interpretation of the word so, one could say that since my "goal" as Olimar is to make the game unplayable for all of my opponents, he should be banned.

Also, you can't ban something that you can't even prove is happening.

 

[Pika_Cam]

How long do you have to do it before it's considered planking or stalling? I mean, I may do it a few times to throw off my opponent, but I'm not trying to run out the time in the match.

 

[theONEjanitor]

That there is a way to stop or prevent something =/= it should be allowed in all cases.
pops is onto something, he just said it pedantically :-P

perhaps the rules are changed by now but
In Melee, if you play jigglypuff and rising pound away from your opponent the entire match, that's banned. It's not unstoppable by any means, and it doesn't make the game unplayable if the opponent is patient and or smart enough, but it's a clear attempt to make the game unplayable.
likewise if you peach bombed the wall the whole match, you would obviously be DQ'd. again, not unstoppable, not unplayable, still banned.

planking in and of itself shouldn't be banned though. unless the definition of "planking" is "not playing the match, and edge stalling the entire time"

i think everyone needs to get off this "here is a list of moves you can't use". Everything is subject to the situation. Based on that video, I would DQ that GW because it seems clear that his intention isn't to play the match out. Forget whether or not it makes the game playable, he's stalling the match. obviously. He's not trying to get a better position. he's stalling. stalling is banned. He did it consistently, witht he same timing. he wasn't trying to draw ike off guard, he was simply stalling. obviously.

on the other hand. I played a GW online with my snake the other day, and was trying to prevent him from recoverying by throwing nades and forward b. as he grabbed the ledge, he dropped and up-b'd a few times until he had a safe opening. he wasn't stalling, he was trying to find a good position.

and lets stop comparing stalling to infinites. Infinites aren't considered for bans because they stall the match, they are because they might be broken and unfair.

 

[theONEjanitor]

so news.

Looks like Tuscaloosa's next tournament won't be until probably Jan. 31st because
A. UA students typically make up around half of the tournament entry, and most of them will still be out of town the 3rd and the 10th
B. the next weekend, i'm planning going out of town
C. the next weekend I have to work

if you noticed, this also means I probably wont attend either tipped off or impact clash III

sadness

 

[GeorgeTHPS]

Extreme sadness. I can probably only make it to one tournament in January, and that's going to be Impact Clash.

 

[DanGR]

long post

Ok, forget the term ledgestalling. Call it ledgecamping. Ledgecamping isn't banned in melee.

And you can stop planking. Here's a video of Plank planking SK92, a falco player:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awI8Zz1EIE8

It's entirely possible for characters to beat it. It's just much more difficult against better characters- such as MK. I like these next quotes because it's the way I feel. (Also I didn't want to type all this, lol)

Planking isn't really stalling (IDC, sonic's homing missle thing under the stage is) You opponent can easily run over to you while you are planking and grab the edge to edgehog you, or stage spike you with an aerial.

You also have to think about it from a different perspective. Take marth, for example. With his fast disjointed hitboxes, he can make it a nightmare for his opponent to return from the ledge back on to the stage. If marth spaces properly, he can cover: normal getup (with fsmash, ftilt), attackup (with counter, fsmash, ftilt), roll (with anything...), jump (with fair and nair), and most ledgehop aerial options, since marth's disjointed hitbox outprioritizes everything.

That's forcing the person on the ledge (who is already in a bad position) to return to the stage, but just letting your opponent to return to the stage wouldn't work either (this is a fighting game).

I can see arguments for both sides, but since this isn't some broken tactic that makes you invincible, it shouldn'd be banned. Yes, it puts you at an advantage, but that's the point of any game, to put yourself at an advantage and you opponent at a disadvantage.

Ledge camping isn't broken in Melee. Ledge stalling (permanent invincibility) is banned because it makes you invincible and you can stall indefinitely. Banning ledge camping is silly, it's just another form of camping. It isn't a stall tactic because you can HIT the ledge camper, just because it's hard to get around doesn't mean you should ban it (this goes for MK and ledge camping). Maybe everyone shouldn't play a game where winning requires doing the most boring **** ever.

Let me repeat, you can hit them out of it so you CAN get around it. Just because it makes brawl boring doesn't mean it should be banned (might as well ban camping at all then) and ledge camping in melee is allowed and not broken, stalling via invincibility is banned.

Hard to beat =/= should be banned.

How about if I started planking for strategical purposes? Camping? Plank stalled that match because he wanted the Falco player to approach. He didn't want to deal with the lasers. Would that be banned? Are you going to ban edgecamping? Are you going to ban me sitting next to the edge of the stage? Are you going to ban me getting in an advantageous position? I mean, where do you draw the line? And Alex, with all of these my goal is to make the game unplayable for my opponent.

Or you could just outright ban MK.

 

[popsofctown]

i'm playing lawyer, not congressman. While i wouldn't personally DQ someone for standing next to the ledge and doing nothing, it is, as you say, forbidden by my interpretation of the law.

As used in the sentence, it's pretty clear the word "so" indicates a goal. "so that one may make the game unplayable". It doesn't say "so one does make the game unplayable", it says may. That indicates uncertainty as to whether the goal was accomplished. It can't possibly be the use of so that means therefore, because there isn't even certainty.

 

[DanGR]

i'm playing lawyer, not congressman. While i wouldn't personally DQ someone for standing next to the ledge and doing nothing, it is, as you say, forbidden by my interpretation of the law.

As used in the sentence, it's pretty clear the word "so" indicates a goal. "so that one may make the game unplayable". It doesn't say "so one does make the game unplayable", it says may. That indicates uncertainty as to whether the goal was accomplished. It can't possibly be the use of so that means therefore, because there isn't even certainty.

I just told you why so can't possibly indicate a goal. Why are you pushing this point?

 

[Will_]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd98J5z9Ftg

I find it funny how you could do this to 98% of smashers and get a similar reaction.

 

[Sensai]

When did the Alabama Thread turn into the Drama Over Nothing In Particular Thread?

So's a ****in' word. Words grow and their meanings change. Get over it.

[Edit:]

And that video's...either funny or terribly sad.

 

[DanGR]

When did the Alabama Thread turn into the Drama Over Nothing In Particular Thread?

So's a ****in' word. Words grow and their meanings change. Get over it.

[Edit:]

And that video's...either funny or terribly sad.

I just want someone to either justify banning planking over camping, or let it stay. It affects me so I want to discuss it.

 

[theONEjanitor]

ledgecamping and ledgestalling are two differing things
you can do both with planking, one of them is banned

and despite what that guy says the definition of ledgestalling is not "permanent invincibility"

camping is legal. looking for a good spot is legal.
dropping from the ledge and up-bing at regular intervals without stopping, even when your opponent has run all the way to the other edge of the screen is stalling. which is not legal. at least in my tournaments.
i played desu's dedede twice, and each time I started to give him problems, he began severely ledgecamping. but he didn't just go into auto pilot mode, pressing down than up-b regardless of what i was doing. he was specifically trying to draw me off guard, so he could HIT me. and when I wised up and just stood away and threw stuff at him. he got up and tried to draw me off guard again.

I dont really think this issue is as vague as you make it out to be dangr. sometimes people camp, sometimes people stall. its pretty easy to see the difference.

and i didn't say it couldnt be stopped, just because something can be stopped doesn't automatically mean it should be allowed, and doesn't automatically mean its not stalling .
note the melee examples i said, and also, sonics stall under the stage is still a stall and is still banned, even though some characters can still attack sonic while he's doing it.

if you "don't want to deal with lasers", then you need to play a different game. because Falco has lasers. i may not want to deal with pikmin, or grenades, or swords, or turnips, but thats tough **** because its in the game. it doesn't justify stalling the match. (but now what i look at the vid, he wasn't stalling the match at all)

who cares what the SBR meant by a two letter word.
let's talk about what SHOULD be banned and why. forget the sbr.

 

[theONEjanitor]

and i just watched the plank vid and clearly if you can't see the difference between what plank was doing and what that GW was doing, then i dont know what else to sya

 

[DanGR]

Well, then at least define the difference between ledgestalling and ledgecamping so I'll know what you're banning..

 

[theONEjanitor]

when it is clear that you have no intention of ever approaching your opponent in order to take stocks from him, like that GW. you're stalling. and you're DQed. Its virtually the same and standing there not pushing anything, (which is technically banned as well, but its suicide to do that anyway)

it would have to be clear like it is with that GW in that video.

if you have no intention but can somehow fool me into thinking that you do, then you're fine. although that doesn't seem to be possible.

if its clear that you're trying to draw your opponent off guard and/or find a better position, that's fine.

you seem to think that its hard to tell the difference between the two but i disagree.

In general, most things you do in brawl are legal. it usually takes an extreme case to warrant dq

 

[DanGR]

Not approaching is called camping. That's what you're describing.

 

[shaSLAM]

Is "planking" banned at these Alabama tourneys?

This is what the SBR recommended ruleset says about stalling:

Stalling: The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling, while doing an infinite grab endlessly against a wall is. Any infinite chain grabs most end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling.

if i had been that ike i wouldve put my controller down and took a **** on that kid.
then do his mom.
and kill his family.
and then eat them.
and **** them out on him again.

 

[j00t]

if i had been that ike i wouldve put my controller down and took a **** on that kid.
then do his mom.
and kill his family.
and then eat them.
and **** them out on him again.

That's what Wario would do.

 

[Duchock]

How about this: a situational ban, but if you do it, opponents and onlookers can call you a **** with no retribution.

George, if you can't make it to T-town, I'll never forgive you. I mean, it's practically Febuary, so it doesn't count!

 

[theONEjanitor]

Not approaching is called camping. That's what you're describing.

camping is temporarily not approaching to find a better position

stalling is never approaching because you don't intend to play the match. i dont understand the confusion