Afro's thoughts on Melee Enthusiasts

[Equi]

It's sad to see that melee enthusiasts have literally lost their soul due to a new game,, that EVERYONE agrees is worse, yet is still being played more then melee. These melee Enthusiasts have come up with a completely ******** discriminatory term, known as the brawl noob OR the brawl scrub, due to these "brawl noobs" newfound attention wiping away the previous melee players dominating egos.

This is resulting in a defensive attitude toward newfound brawl players. It has caused a split between the "brawl noobs" and the Melee Enthusiasts, which the majority of the ruckus is caused by the Melee Enthusiasts instead of just playing their own **** game. This can be done in multiple ways, one such way being to HOST A MELEE TOURNAMENT (good **** Linguini, for manning the fvck up and not simply ONLY b1tching). These Melee Enthusiasts (some who do not even play brawl, or have any knowledge of the meta game whatsoever, despite common social prejudice) are hell-bent on constantly reminding us of the negative factors of brawl (as if melee, has none of these negative factors such as Chaingrabbing), despite Brawl ACTUALLY having alot of depthh especially in the single jab/shield/different elemental character specific moves (i.e. Wario bite/Wolf shine) adding intrinsic depth to the mixup game, an element that Melee does not have (where one hit results in a winding combo instead of a continued contest of thoughtful prediction.)













































-----Afro and Equi



inb4
"Brawl is gay cuz so and so said so"
"Brawl is gay period"
"That's a very logical argument, but your problem is... well... Brawl sucks"

 

[Gingerr]

I don't know why you're even bothering, I'm sure you and I both know that all of those things you're inb4 are going to be said regardless, and it's all just kind of a waste of breath -- even if I, among others, understand where you're coming from.

p.s. Also, you can't be "inb4" in OP but I'll let you slide this time ;D

more p.s. Matt, watch Gurren Lagann, you would absolutely LOVE Kamina, he reminds me of you. Everything has to be manly and **** with him.

 

[GDX]

i completely agree with you afro

but this will be my last post in this thread, cause its gonna turn into a hellfire. good luck

more p.s. Matt, watch Gurren Lagann, you would absolutely LOVE Kamina, he reminds me of you. Everything has to be manly and **** with him.

wait what, he hasnt seen it yet?!? WHAT ARE YOU DOING

 

[NES n00b]

p.s. Also, you can't be "inb4" in OP

This. It has to be like this.

Inb4 all of Barwl FL players agree with Afro.

 

[Finch]

ok well, I guess you guys are right. I just like being rewarded for my hits instead of having to run away after them.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Melee feels laggy now. hehe I like doing stuff out of shield.

 

[Equi]

ok well, I guess you guys are right. I just like being rewarded for my hits instead of having to run away after them.

Theres continuations in brawl, just because you cannot do them, does not mean that they do not exist.

 

[SheerMadness]

adding intrinsic depth to the mixup game, an element that Melee does not have (where one hit results in a winding combo instead of a continued contest of thoughtful prediction.)

I like brawl, but I can't agree with you there. You can't predict and punish people in brawl anywhere near the likes of melee.

 

[Eight 52]

Let's compromise and play Brawl+. The only problem with it is that Snake has an aerial game on top of everything else D:

 

[Finch]

Like what? Snake's dthrow to ftilt?

I also like edgeguarding. In fact it's one of my favorite parts of smash. That's probably why I hate brawl, because lately whenever I play it I play john's MK. If I played brawl more I'd probably like it more, but I don't and I don't want to put the time into it. Plus I don't know anyone around that plays brawl over melee.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Like what? Snake's dthrow to ftilt?

I also like edgeguarding. In fact it's one of my favorite parts of smash. That's probably why I hate brawl, because lately whenever I play it I play john's MK. If I played brawl more I'd probably like it more, but I don't and I don't want to put the time into it. Plus I don't know anyone around that plays brawl over melee.

*raises hand*

 

[Life After Death]

all i know is brawl sucks. whats realy starting to piss me off is brawl tourneys in the same days of melee toruneys

 

[Eight 52]

Like what? Snake's dthrow to ftilt?

I also like edgeguarding. In fact it's one of my favorite parts of smash. That's probably why I hate brawl, because lately whenever I play it I play john's MK. If I played brawl more I'd probably like it more, but I don't and I don't want to put the time into it. Plus I don't know anyone around that plays brawl over melee.

More like lag free dair to grab/ftilt or nair to grab/whatever.

 

[dguy6789]

People who only like Melee should only play Melee, people who only like Brawl should only play Brawl. People who like both should play both. Tourneys exist for both games, so no johns.

Both are good games, I am sorry some Melee players suck at Brawl, but it's not my problem, and it really is getting tiring to hear the same maybe five Melee players who are garbage at Brawl constantly saying how ****ty of a game Brawl is.

 

[Equi]

Like what? Snake's dthrow to ftilt?

I also like edgeguarding. In fact it's one of my favorite parts of smash. That's probably why I hate brawl, because lately whenever I play it I play john's MK. If I played brawl more I'd probably like it more, but I don't and I don't want to put the time into it. Plus I don't know anyone around that plays brawl over melee.

No like single jab into grab, or ftilt. This can be done with multiple characters, like wolf, wario, metaknight.... Single jab into reading their reaction is not only significantly deep but also very difficult to pull off without YOU being the one who is punished.

This separates top players, from scrubs.

I like Edgeguarding to, what i consider Edgeguarding seems to be slightly more in-depth then what you consider Edgeguarding. When someone is hanging on the edge, i love reading their whatever option they choose (whether it be to jump off, roll off, ledge cancel etc) and punishing them for it by sending back off the stage and back onto the edge they are trying to escape. Explain to me how this is not edgeguarding? Reading someones reaction as they attempt to return to the stage from the edge. It seems to me like you enjoy edgeHOGGING which is a extremely simple process of grabbing the edge and hitting the R button. Where in brawl you have to predict your opponent to get the "Edgeguarding" effect that you speak of.

If your refering to attacking your opponent while they recovery, i believe you are refering to gimping, which also has its place in brawl (snakes recovery for instance, is easy to gimp).

I also like both Melee and Brawl, but i enjoy brawl WAY more then i do melee.

--Afro

 

[Equi]

I like brawl, but I can't agree with you there. You can't predict and punish people in brawl anywhere near the likes of melee.

While i agree with your point, this is not negative. 1 hit punishes are not necessarily a bad thing (or 2 to 3 hit continuations which require more thought then a guarenteed stock combo), it means more reading and more changing of your playstyle. You cant just keep using the same combo that just happens to connect as the fight progresses.

 

[Equi]

More like lag free dair to grab/ftilt or nair to grab/whatever.

As a previous snake main, im calling you out on your bull****.
Neither of those hit strings (or w/e you wanna call them) work, your opponent will ALWAYS recover faster then you, if you land the first 3 hits of Nair/Dair and then land.

Do not take offense, but yeah, bull****.

--Afro

 

[Finch]

No like single jab into grab, or ftilt. This can be done with multiple characters, like wolf, wario, metaknight.... Single jab into reading their reaction is not only significantly deep but also very difficult to pull off without YOU being the one who is punished.

This separates top players, from scrubs.

I like Edgeguarding to, what i consider Edgeguarding seems to be slightly more in-depth then what you consider Edgeguarding. When someone is hanging on the edge, i love reading their whatever option they choose (whether it be to jump off, roll off, ledge cancel etc) and punishing them for it by sending back off the stage and back onto the edge they are trying to escape. Explain to me how this is not edgeguarding? Reading someones reaction as they attempt to return to the stage from the edge. It seems to me like you enjoy edgeHOGGING which is a extremely simple process of grabbing the edge and hitting the R button. Where in brawl you have to predict your opponent to get the "Edgeguarding" effect that you speak of.

If your refering to attacking your opponent while they recovery, i believe you are refering to gimping, which also has its place in brawl (snakes recovery for instance, is easy to gimp).

I also like both Melee and Brawl, but i enjoy brawl WAY more then i do melee.

--Afro

um....

Which of these things is not in melee?

 

[Will_]

As a previous snake main, im calling you out on your bull****.
Neither of those hit strings (or w/e you wanna call them) work, your opponent will ALWAYS recover faster then you, if you land the first 3 hits of Nair/Dair and then land.

Do not take offense, but yeah, bull****.

--Afro

I think he was talking about brawl+, where there's l-canceling and whatnot.

 

[Equi]

um....

Which of these things is not in melee?

Seriously, way to not read the post, no offense but PLEASE read before responding.
At no point did i say none of these are not in melee.

Intelligent posts only please....

--Afro (take no offense)

 

[Equi]

I think he was talking about brawl+, where there's l-canceling and whatnot.

Sorry i havent played that yet, and seeing as its just one big hack, it should stay out of this thread.

--Afro

 

[XIF]

hell-bent on constantly reminding us of the negative factors of brawl (as if melee, has none of these negative factors such as Chaingrabbing), despite Brawl ACTUALLY having alot of depthh especially in the single jab/shield/different elemental character specific moves (i.e. Wario bite/Wolf shine) adding intrinsic depth to the mixup game, an element that Melee does not have (where one hit results in a winding combo instead of a continued contest of thoughtful prediction.)

I will be the first to admit Melee is a terribly imbalanced fighting game, but at least it isnt a joke.

As for the other statement.

Simply no.

Just because the gameplay is slower doesnt give brawl any sort of intrinsic quality that makes it more thoughtful. And Melee rarely resulted in a 1 hit, 1 stock gameplay. Smash 64 sure, and Marvel more so, but Melee only some of the time, not enough to compare it to true 1 hit, 1 stock games like 64 and Marvel.

Melee was still a contest of thoughtful prediction, a game where smarter players did indeed win. Whether smarter by knowledge of the game (Mew2King) or smarter by knowledge of the opponent (Azen), it was still a game that required much thought to be good at the tournament level.

I hate the idea that Melee was just some mindless aggro fest. I'm starting to think the people with this opinion are the people that actually played the game like that, and I'll tell you now none of them are very good at Melee.

And only being able to punish a little bit takes away from gameplay, at least in brawl's case. It only makes the weaker player better in every situation. If I am not good and I go and make a mistake or a dumb decision, I need to be punished for that. In brawl, most characters can simply hold R and start rotating the control stick and get out of a punishment. Sure you have the mindgame of waiting for the sidestep, but then what? 10%? 20 percent if your snake? You whiff an f smash with marth that was like insta 40-50% with most characters. Which is the way it should be, you got outplayed.

Instead, the basic mechanics of brawl take away from that, and only reward mindless gameplay, where even if you make a mistake you can just get away or you only risk very little.

This is really the crux of the issue with Brawl. The only thing keeping fox down in melee was the fact that you can absolutely T-bag the guy if he made a mistake. This doesnt exsist in brawl, at least not with the best characters. You do have like Falco basically auto-stocking ganondorf if he makes a mistake, but it goes way too far in the opposite direction of there being too big of a risk. At least with Fox in melee you have shine and the ever broken up smash to cover you.

My reason for at least observing the Brawl meta-game is because my friends still play it (not my best friends but people I would consider to be my friends). But even most of them say it's a terrible competitive game, and play it simply because its fun.

Thats fine, but don't try to contrive these problems with melee, give Brawl fake advantages, and try to say that Brawl is an OK fighting game.

Just play your stupid busted game, I'll play my busted, slightly less stupid Melee.

 

[Finch]

I'm grumpy just ignore me.

 

[ranmaru]

Most of my friends don't even want to look at melee anymore. Its treated like old news, but I will man up and Deal/w it. DGAF

 

[Eight 52]

As a previous snake main, im calling you out on your bull****.
Neither of those hit strings (or w/e you wanna call them) work, your opponent will ALWAYS recover faster then you, if you land the first 3 hits of Nair/Dair and then land.

Do not take offense, but yeah, bull****.

--Afro

Brawl+ has s canceling son. You are basically lag free after the move.

 

[Gingerr]

I think he was talking about brawl+, where there's l-canceling and whatnot.

Yeah, this shouldn't count in the discussion, seeing as how it shouldn't/won't be tournament standard.

 

[Eight 52]

He was responding to me saying snake is ******** in brawl+

 

[Will_]

He was responding to me saying snake is ******** in brawl+

*nods*

I haven't played it either.

 

[Fenrir VII]

He was responding to me saying snake is ******** in brawl+

I shudder to think of trying to approach Ike, as well... : /

but yeah, this shouldn't really come into play.


Brawl isn't more thoughtful because it's slower. It's more thoughtful because the attacker is not always at an advantage.

I'm not saying melee requires no thought... or less thought or anything of the like. But there were instances where a smarter player was easily beaten by a very good pressuring person because that was nearly unbeatable. Does stuff like this come up in Brawl? to some extent, but never as badly.

The extra stuff able to be done out of shield makes it a very less aggressive game than Melee... you honestly have to work for hits... and I never felt that way in Melee... even playing Link.

I don't prefer Brawl because I do better at it than Melee, either. I'm actually doing about the same... so that's not a valid argument. I simply like the game more. I think it's a more freedom giving game. Even without the inclusion of wavedash and l-cancel.

Brawl vs Melee is a ridiculous argument, though. They are two very different games. and players prefer their own favorite game. Tournaments should not stop for either game as long as there is a crowd for them. Nobody should blindly bash either game...there's no reason. Nobody should be called out for preferring either game....opinion is personal, so to say that somebody preference is wrong is idiotic.

You have a right to hold a Melee tourney just as much as I have a right to hold a Brawl tourney...so why is there so much hate? just live your life and get over it.

 

[Retroend]

Like what? Snake's dthrow to ftilt?

I also like edgeguarding. In fact it's one of my favorite parts of smash. That's probably why I hate brawl, because lately whenever I play it I play john's MK. If I played brawl more I'd probably like it more, but I don't and I don't want to put the time into it. Plus I don't know anyone around that plays brawl over melee.

*raises hand too* seriously, i haven't touched melee since brawl came out. but i agree about mk. can't freakin edgeguard him!

People who only like Melee should only play Melee, people who only like Brawl should only play Brawl. People who like both should play both. Tourneys exist for both games, so no johns.

Both are good games, I am sorry some Melee players suck at Brawl, but it's not my problem, and it really is getting tiring to hear the same maybe five Melee players who are garbage at Brawl constantly saying how ****ty of a game Brawl is.

you made my day with this post. i am tired of hearing people bashing brawl so much. its getting annoying now. we KNOW it sucks, so stop telling us 20 times already! you like melee more? than play melee!, you hate brawl? then play melee! stop complaining already! people can't accept how brawl is and thats sad. brawl is a good game, unbalanced, yes, but a good game (lets ban ddd while we're at it). melee is way more unbalanced in my opinion. so just stick to your favorite! no one's making like brawl more than melee. k? thanx.

 

[Equi]

I will be the first to admit Melee is a terribly imbalanced fighting game, but at least it isnt a joke.

As for the other statement.

Simply no.

Just because the gameplay is slower doesnt give brawl any sort of intrinsic quality that makes it more thoughtful. And Melee rarely resulted in a 1 hit, 1 stock gameplay. Smash 64 sure, and Marvel more so, but Melee only some of the time, not enough to compare it to true 1 hit, 1 stock games like 64 and Marvel.

Melee was still a contest of thoughtful prediction, a game where smarter players did indeed win. Whether smarter by knowledge of the game (Mew2King) or smarter by knowledge of the opponent (Azen), it was still a game that required much thought to be good at the tournament level.

I hate the idea that Melee was just some mindless aggro fest. I'm starting to think the people with this opinion are the people that actually played the game like that, and I'll tell you now none of them are very good at Melee.

And only being able to punish a little bit takes away from gameplay, at least in brawl's case. It only makes the weaker player better in every situation. If I am not good and I go and make a mistake or a dumb decision, I need to be punished for that. In brawl, most characters can simply hold R and start rotating the control stick and get out of a punishment. Sure you have the mindgame of waiting for the sidestep, but then what? 10%? 20 percent if your snake? You whiff an f smash with marth that was like insta 40-50% with most characters. Which is the way it should be, you got outplayed.

Instead, the basic mechanics of brawl take away from that, and only reward mindless gameplay, where even if you make a mistake you can just get away or you only risk very little.

This is really the crux of the issue with Brawl. The only thing keeping fox down in melee was the fact that you can absolutely T-bag the guy if he made a mistake. This doesnt exsist in brawl, at least not with the best characters. You do have like Falco basically auto-stocking ganondorf if he makes a mistake, but it goes way too far in the opposite direction of there being too big of a risk. At least with Fox in melee you have shine and the ever broken up smash to cover you.

My reason for at least observing the Brawl meta-game is because my friends still play it (not my best friends but people I would consider to be my friends). But even most of them say it's a terrible competitive game, and play it simply because its fun.

Thats fine, but don't try to contrive these problems with melee, give Brawl fake advantages, and try to say that Brawl is an OK fighting game.

Just play your stupid busted game, I'll play my busted, slightly less stupid Melee.

We are not saying, that a single hit results in a single death. What we are saying is that is it much more LIKELY that that single hit will result in a single death and a higher percent due to guarenteed combos. At no point did we say that melee is a mindless aggro fest, please do not accuse us of such things. We are aware that at top level play, it is not simply 0-death combos off of single hits. There is alot of percent building and then landing a kill move, just like brawl. What we ARE saying, is that there is a possibility of you losing a stock for a single mistake.

Explain to me, why all the top level players have the ability to punish with multiple continuations THROUGH predictation and reaction and low level players INSIST on believing its only 1 hit punishes. Its a COMMON SOCIAL PREJUDICE BY LOW LEVEL PLAYERS to think that there are NO continuations (which require more thought process then a guarenteed combo). Only those players who are NOT advanced in the meta-game believe this. Sorry XiF, but you have absolutely NO FVCKING IDEA what you are talking about. Seriously watch ANY top level players and there are DEFINITELY extreme punishes off of the smallest mistake. ALSO, if everything WAS 1hit punishes, wouldnt the weaker player STILL lose through making MORE mistakes? Even though that type of gameplay would take longer, would the better and smarter player still not win? Is it not considered skill to beat your opponent 1hit at a time? Chess at top level play, punishments are issued through SMALL positional errors ONE MOVE AT A TIME. Are you going to say that Chess is not deep because its 1 punishment at a time? Or would you prefer checkers, where you can jump over MULTIPLE pieces at one time through a single mistake. Hmmm sounds abit like melee? Seems like some people got the popular analogy backwards.

Longer Gameplay = More Alterations of Playstyle (Adaption) over Time

You can have your opinion of the game, it does NOT mean, that its instantly right.
ESPECIALLY if you dont back it up with LOGICAL arguements.

--Afro and Equi

 

[Kagesekan]

I agree with OP, not that it's going to do anything. Melee players will continue with their tenacity and Brawl players will continue with trying to convince them. Hybrids will keep sitting back and laughing at both groups.

No johns about disliking Brawl. Making fun of it now is like reposting an old meme, there's no excuse for doing it. Everyone knows every valid argument you could possibly have against it and its not funny anymore. You can keep whining but it won't accomplish anything.

The use of the term "Brawl noob" is frustrating when a lot of us played Melee from day one of it's release. I'll be the first to say that I'm at best a mediocre Marth/Ganon player, and that's on a good day. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the game. I have just as much fun playing Brawl (in doubles), but I'll also admit that some matchups are extremely gay and the defensive playstyle can get aggravating after awhile.

 

[Eight 52]

I shudder to think of trying to approach Ike, as well... : /

but yeah, this shouldn't really come into play.

I play without wavedashing, it really isn't that bad. It's kinda gdorf from melee. Snake can actually combo though, which is scary.

I honestly think It can come to play. It's a compromise between two games, bringing physics of all the games and putting it into one, trying create the best game it can.

Yes, I realize that there is modding to a premade fighting game and yes, we are looked down upon in the fighting community because of our god complexes. It really shouldn't matter abut the rep anymore, as it already is down the tube. I'm saying is that people want to play a new game, but hate brawl in general. They just released the patch for hitstun. I'm just saying is that you don't need to write off on the + yet. There's no point, considering how split we are on two games that nobody seems to care for, or care too much.

 

[Will_]

I enjoy watching a pro melee set many times more than watching a pro brawl set.

Just putting that out there. <3 to both games and the talent that goes into them.

 

[theONEjanitor]

This can be done in multiple ways, one such way being to HOST A MELEE TOURNAMENT

Quoted for the mother****ing truth.

but I want to add something:

This can be done in multiple ways, one such way being to HOST A MELEE TOURNAMENT or ATTENDING ONE WHEN THEY ARE HOSTED

Brawl is a fine game that's not perfect (just like every decent game ever made), but these arguments don't go anywwhere.

We've got possibly the best player in the region arguing with people who don't ever play the game. Anyone else see a problem with that?

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Snake is dumb.

 

[Equi]

I enjoy watching a pro melee set many times more than watching a pro brawl set.

Just putting that out there. <3 to both games and the talent that goes into them.

Though i recognize that this is a opinion, do realize that chess is the same way. It can be minutes before someone makes a move, and the game can last hours. Yet that does not take away from its depth.

--Afro and Equi

 

[Eight 52]

Disregard post.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

D3's dumber

 

[Equi]

Quoted for the mother****ing truth.

but I want to add something:



Brawl is a fine game that's not perfect (just like every decent game ever made), but these arguments don't go anywwhere.

We've got possibly the best player in the region arguing with people who don't ever play the game. Anyone else see a problem with that?

True, but im merely correcting them. Enlightening them to the facts.

But do you not see a problem with people such as XiF, Zoro, or Renth telling us "brawl noobs" about OUR game when they dont even play it?