Advanced Techniques in Brawl

[Johnknight1]

@ Dylan
You rule=uber pwnage!

WD will be in Brawl, admit it! Why wouldn't it be, it is a all around helpful tech that can help any player, for offense, defense, or manuvering. And for those who say WD is a hack, well ur idiots, and need to learn that something known and kept in for a purpose is not a hack, while the black hole (something unitended and not known) is. -Johnknight1

edit: Adi with the pwn!

 

[maxpower1227]

Actually, I'm an old member who had an old account deactivated due to inactivity. Secondly, I've been playing Nintendo games for about 20 years. I just don't like how this game has been reduced to a twitch-fest by people who drool over some programming glitch. And no, the fact that I don't like it is not a valid reason for removing it, but the fact that it detracts from the realism of the game and makes no sense whatsoever is a decent reason.

 

[AlphaZealot]

but the fact that it detracts from the realism of the game and makes no sense whatsoever is a decent reason.

The realism? We're playing a game with nintendo characters across stages that are from all sorts of differant locations, games, universes, etc. There is no "realism" in Smash. If you want realism, remove double jumping, up-b-ing, and just about every attack in the game.

 

[Johnknight1]

Actually, I'm an old member who had an old account deactivated due to inactivity. Secondly, I've been playing Nintendo games for about 20 years. I just don't like how this game has been reduced to a twitch-fest by people who drool over some programming glitch. And no, the fact that I don't like it is not a valid reason for removing it, but the fact that it detracts from the realism of the game and makes no sense whatsoever is a decent reason.

1.It was known before SSBM's international release, and was left in because the developers thought it wouldn't hurt the game, but it could actually help the game.

2.It isn't a f****** glitch! If you don't like it, don't use it. You can be good without it, but overall it helps spacing, strategies, defense, offense, grabs, combos, etc. etc. etc.

3.Issac Newton would be proud! Pround that characters slide after running and jumping, proud that there is some realism in a fighting game with a plummber and his cape, a plummer who can fly, a dcotor/plummer, a Princess who can float, a friggen giant beast, a dinasaur, a giant ape, a ninja, a pink puff ball, 2 futuristic bounty hunters, 2 characters who climb ice mountains for a living, a master of Pk at the age of 12, 2 space animals, 2 yellow rats, another pink puffball, a geneticly made psychic master, a 2D flippin character, a princess who knows magic, a psycho crazy guy with insane power, and 4 swordsmen with unrealistic powers, items, and abilities!

I'm sure they all fight regularly, and that sure is realistic (sarcasm). Sounds like WD adds realism amongst 200% impossible stuff to me! So if WD can help your game all around, what is wrong with it=??? Boy SSB is truely realistic! In other words, non-realism rules=YAE!

 

[maxpower1227]

A certain amount of unrealism is to be expected. The jumping mechanics are an integral part of the unique style of Smash Bros, and are really tied to the identity of the game. They're unrealistic to the same degree as things like shields , but taking them out would make the game far less enjoyable - people would probably die a lot faster if there were no 2nd or 3rd jumps. Wavedashing is just too extreme imo...

As for the sarcastic rants about "realism" above, I was speaking mainly to the things like character weights, fall rates, move speeds, knockback distances, and other examples of realistic physics that are in Smash Bros.

Now, that said, walking backwards is a movement that would be perfectly reasonable, and I actually think it would be a brilliant addition to Smash Bros as a replacement for wavedashing. If you could hold a button and move backwards without turning around, that would make the game much better imo.

 

[Dragonboy2k4]

Ok, I haven't read through 32 pages of this thread, but I for one hope wavedashing is NOT in Brawl. Sure it makes for some very complex strategies, but I just think it is an unnatural movement that turns the game into a sort of precision twitch-fest. I think it would seem absurd if there was a button for "slide your character back and forth along the ground", which is essentially what a wavedash is. It's a glitch that results in a completely unnatural, unrealistic movement which to me detracts from the game. I'm sure there are ways to incorporate good strategy into the game without having to resort to twitch-reflex button combinations that result in the characters defying the laws of physics.

I vote NO on wavedashing.

Holy crap man,took the words right outta my mouth.Not only that bro,its kinda f-up and unbalanced for a person to have to learn the WD in order to even have a chance Vs another that knows how to use it properly.Is it so broken to others that they cant do **** about it?Hell no,but Ill tell you this tho,try playing people that dont know anything about the tournment techniques and then you can begin see the major skill gap between you and your opponent as you WD and pre-perdict where his roll is gonna end up at.The only thing currently I dont mind returning is the L-cancel tho,because its not that even useful until you have successfully hit your opponent to begin with,and its been in 2 smash games already.


Soaz:He said "absurd" meaning it would be ******** as it is now in Melee.

 

[JPOBS]

who's to say brawl ownt have its own advanced tactics?

 

[Johnknight1]

who's to say brawl ownt have its own advanced tactics?

No one, and I sure it will. However, can you think of a proper and better replacement for WD=??? Something that is better at...o IDK...movement, manuvering, defense, offense, grabs, combos, chain grabs, duking out your opponent etc. etc. etc. I'm sure you're not arguing that WD shouldn't be in Brawl, but that is something to consider.

 

[soaz]

he explained that(i missed it i know what it meens)in his post.I dont usually read a post the way i read a book.

 

[Dragonboy2k4]

who's to say brawl ownt have its own advanced tactics?

Bingo,then why are people so defensive if its replaced?

 

[JPOBS]

No one, and I sure it will. However, can you think of a proper and better replacement for WD=??? Something that is better at...o IDK...movement, manuvering, defense, offense, grabs, combos, chain grabs, duking out your opponent etc. etc. etc. I'm sure you're not arguing that WD shouldn't be in Brawl, but that is something to consider.

course not. all im saying is that people seem to be making a bigger deal about what WONT be in brawl compared to to melee, as opposed to what WILL be.

I like to look at the conversio nbetween 64 and melee. Was there all this hoopla about the new game and what will be removed blah blah? i certainly hope not.

I think its foolish to not play brawl just because wd isnt in it (as some people claim they will) its kinda sad if you really on the wd that much you wont play the new game.

and again, im sure brawl will include many tactics, intended or unintended, that gamers will find/utilize to their maximum. its only common sense when a game has such a hardcore following.

and i wont rule out the possibility of there being a technique equal to/better than the wd because was anyone expecting such a technique to be in melee? no. its hard to say until we've had experience with brawl.

 

[JPOBS]

Bingo,then why are people so defensive if its replaced?

i dont get it either.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I never said you suked I simply was saying that the ppl there don't need amazing tech skills to get you down

Dude do you have any idea how many techniques are involved at top level ssb64 play? About as many as melee, sure the wavedash is gone but DI requires so much effort, shuairs are impossible to do on dpad and very hard on keyboard. Easy on n64 controller but we dont all have an adaptor

Also :

This game should always function by malva's law. ''Don't get hit'' smash is an intellectual game about noticing the patterns in your opponents playstyle and improvising a new one based on an instintual mastery of your main characters moveset that will counter the one he is doing. It is up to YOU to create various playstyles and to master the various movesets of the characters you choose to play.

Since the game at the highest level requires you to know how to use or at least counter the advanced techniques, but that is JUST the beginning of one's journey to the top in smash. Techniques must be learned but it is the intellectual game that takes a lifetime, and there's no tier list holding you back from developing that.

If you'd read more of my many posts on this forum you'd know how I think, and you'd know that I don't look at smash with a closed mind. It is incredibly deep and I give it the respect it deserves. Removing a technique in my opinion, however, is still a bad idea that would do nothing but destroy what could be a better SSB Brawl. I also am beginning to have a few inklings that WD will be in brawl...

Certainly your "game" did evolve from 64 to GC, losing WD doesn't necesarily mean it'd degrade. Again, pathetic excuse.

It most certainly did. When ssb64 came out I was about 12 years old and I played vs level 9 computers and mained link. I then played casually with some friends... then we got melee, sucked at it, quit, went back to ssb64, learned cancelling and all that ''advanced'' whatnot, came back to melee, learned the techniques, and since then have been working on our intellectual game since our ''ADVANNNNNCEDDDDDD'' techniques are pretty much sharp as a knife.

But then my melee game affected my outlook on how ssb64 was played, I went back to it online and competitive and discovered I was wanted for the 2nd best clan in the world and that unless I face someone of extremly high calibur I always, always win.

And yes, without the wavedash in brawl, if brawl is anything like melee... and I really think thats what its going to be based on I, personally, me, Dylan_Tnga will not be very good at the game with fox sheik (if shes in) or mario, my 3 mains.

I will however pick captain falcon and learn his new style for brawl and wont bother worrying about the WD if its out. I'll be dissapointed still though and probably won't buy it, it realllly depends. I'm very stoic on this wavedash thing and no ammount of internet namecalling is going to change that.

ps. you're an idiot.

GOOD ONE!!!!

YOU WIN A ****IN' PRIZE! *shakes head in shame and walks away from thread*

I can't believe you even ended your post with that crap. Come on now.

 

[JPOBS]

And yes, without the wavedash in brawl, if brawl is anything like melee... and I really think thats what its going to be based on I, personally, me, Dylan_Tnga will not be very good at the game with fox sheik (if shes in) or mario, my 3 mains.

is the wd so pivitol to your game you refuse to accept that you could possibly play each of those characters and be just as effective? it simply doesnt mame sense to think that way.

look at this perspective. You seem to think that your skill is simpy going to transfer if wd is there and you are going to suck if it isnt. Does the lack of wd in the 64 version make you a worse player that you are relativly speaking.

basically what im saying is, relatively speaking, you cant assume that your game with link, sheik and mario will be nerfed without one technique, you coul just adjust to brawl's many (likely) advanced tactics in the place of wd. WD is not the be all end all.

 

[Sandy]

I love it when people claim to use advanced techs when they're clearly bull****ting.

It can be fun for you and numerous others, but there are also many who find it more fun without those techniques, myself included. I can base my opinion on the fact that I too have spent many an hour playing with "advanced" techniques, and to me, it's just not as good. Good job we have friend lists, as unfortunately, I predict that ranked matches will involve a large amount of advanced techniques. Myself? I think I'll stick to four player, items, and using Falco, not Fox.

I think I might take you more seriously if you'd grow up and stop whining about wavedashing and other such mindless, childish drivel.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

is the wd so pivitol to your game you refuse to accept that you could possibly play each of those characters and be just as effective? it simply doesnt mame sense to think that way.

Not so much my game in general as in my spacing game. Without spacing I'd severly lack mindgames, without mindgames Id lack getting a hit on my opponent, without that I cant combo, etc etc. If you have no spacing or minimal spacing your game falls apart. If I try to play melee without wavedashing I automatically get 3-4 stocked by my friends just because I leave myself way more open to attack. The ONLY character like Ive mentioned that I dont need wavedashing more so much is falcon due to his style of play. Fox without wavedashing I might aswell just quit playing him, shiek I could MAYBE do, and mario NO WAY IN HELL COULD I PLAY MARIO WITHOUT WDING. NOOOO WAY. No way omfg mario without wavedashing... lowwww tier.

look at this perspective. You seem to think that your skill is simpy going to transfer if wd is there and you are going to suck if it isnt. Does the lack of wd in the 64 version make you a worse player that you are relativly speaking.

No I'm MUCH better at ssb64 relative to the community than at melee judging by my status online in an elite clan and 4-5 stocking anybody who isn't among the top in the world, but still losing obviously to the elites like superboom and isai.

I play -falcon- on ssb64. Falcon. ONLY falcon. Have been for years, I dont see the point in playing anybody else. When I pick fox I try to waveshine... T_T

basically what im saying is, relatively speaking, you cant assume that your game with link, sheik and mario will be nerfed without one technique, you coul just adjust to brawl's many (likely) advanced tactics in the place of wd. WD is not the be all end all.

True, but with no wavedash I have no spacing with anyone except possibly captain falcon. If its not in the game, I likely won't bother playing brawl at all. Personal reasons, and nothing you guys can say will change that and yes I've considered everything you're saying.

Like thebino said though no matter what Im always gonna have ssb64 and melee so in reality I dont even care much about brawl since im dedicated to the first two.

 

[Banks]

Hey guys, do you think wavedashing will be back for brawl? discuss.

 

[Rash]

My God, the wavedashing thread isn't dead yet. Is there a reason you guys have refused to put this whole thing to rest? Seriously, why is this topic still going?

 

[the grim lizard]

@Dylan
Well, THANK GOODNESS Melee had WDing, otherwise you would likely have passed that over, too.

And something still bugs me: Why would you even consider playing SSB64 when it clearly doesn't have WDing or any of those techniques which you deemed so essential??

 

[phatJacob07]

@Dylan
Well, THANK GOODNESS Melee had WDing, otherwise you would likely have passed that over, too.

And something still bugs me: Why would you even consider playing SSB64 when it clearly doesn't have WDing or any of those techniques which you deemed so essential??

I'd guess it's because SSB64 was already a very deep game. And he played it first?

Seriously, that's a silly line of thinking you've got there.

 

[Dragonboy2k4]

Not so much my game in general as in my spacing game. Without spacing I'd severly lack mindgames, without mindgames Id lack getting a hit on my opponent, without that I cant combo, etc etc. If you have no spacing or minimal spacing your game falls apart. If I try to play melee without wavedashing I automatically get 3-4 stocked by my friends just because I leave myself way more open to attack. The ONLY character like Ive mentioned that I dont need wavedashing more so much is falcon due to his style of play. Fox without wavedashing I might aswell just quit playing him, shiek I could MAYBE do, and mario NO WAY IN HELL COULD I PLAY MARIO WITHOUT WDING. NOOOO WAY. No way omfg mario without wavedashing... lowwww tier.

No I'm MUCH better at ssb64 relative to the community than at melee judging by my status online in an elite clan and 4-5 stocking anybody who isn't among the top in the world, but still losing obviously to the elites like superboom and isai.

I play -falcon- on ssb64. Falcon. ONLY falcon. Have been for years, I dont see the point in playing anybody else. When I pick fox I try to waveshine... T_T

True, but with no wavedash I have no spacing with anyone except possibly captain falcon. If its not in the game, I likely won't bother playing brawl at all. Personal reasons, and nothing you guys can say will change that and yes I've considered everything you're saying.

Like thebino said though no matter what Im always gonna have ssb64 and melee so in reality I dont even care much about brawl since im dedicated to the first two.

Iam sorry man,but you cant carry on with" what I cant" or "what to do".Iam can almost guarantee that Brawl will have expoilts(theres no such thing as the prefect game,if there was,we all be playing it right now for enternity).And if WD is truly gone,there only gonna be two options left for ya..

1:Learn what has be changed,and find "NEW"ways around whats been changed

2:Continue to play SSB64/Melee while the rest of us learn new and updated tricks that have a 99.99% of being in the game.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I'd guess it's because SSB64 was already a very deep game. And he played it first?

Seriously, that's a silly line of thinking you've got there.

Thank you. I get it like 2 million times a day.

WELL GUD THING DER IZ WDING IN MELEE CUZ IF A TECHNIQUE HAD NEVER EXISTED AND YOU HAD NEVER KNOWN ABOUT IT YOU SOMEHOW WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT EXISTED IN AN ALTERNATE WORLD ANYWAY AND WOULD BOYCOTT MELEE FOR NOT HAVING A TECHNIQUE THAT DOESN'T EXIST.


SSB DIDNT HAVE WAVEDASHING AND IT CAME OUT BEFORE MELEE AND I BET U DONT PLAY THAT BECUZ NO WDING CUZ ALL U CARE ABOUT IS WD AND U R GAY.

etc, etc. sigh.

Idiots.

 

[the grim lizard]

You just went on a giant rant about how your game would fall apart without wavedashing and then went on to say that you wouldn't play Brawl if it didn't have wavedashing. Then, you finished it off by saying "ah, well at least I have the original..."

Seems pretty reasonable of me to question THAT line of thinking...it really didn't make sense at all, double standards you have...

 

[JPOBS]

I'd guess it's because SSB64 was already a very deep game. And he played it first?

Seriously, that's a silly line of thinking you've got there.

accually, its a brilliant line of thinking.
He's obviously capable of playing quite wonderfully without wding. relatively speaking to said game.

This begs the question: if melee didnt have wavedashing would you have not played it?

 

[the grim lizard]

accually, its a brilliant line of thinking.
He's obviously capable of playing quite wonderfully without wding. relatively speaking to said game.

This begs the question: if melee didnt have wavedashing would you have not played it?

THANK you. That's what I was saying.

 

[JPOBS]

Basically, heres lies wherein your logic doesnt add up dylan. relatively speaking to the game, you find wd essential and you basically said your game would fall apart without it.

Funny thing is, you're some great ssb player amirite? so whats up with that? relatively speaking you find ways to be great at ssb without the inclusion of wd.

Thus, relatively speaking, it simply does not make logical sense to assume that without wd, brawl would be any less of a game than melee was/is, and you any less of a player than you are/could be. It just doesnt make sense. period.

 

[Banks]

whats the big deal about wavedashing?

It's pretty simple...wavedashing will not make you good, but i think 99% of players who can't wavedash are not good at all. If a player is good, he will know how to wavedash and use it. it's like a correlation more than a requirement. go to a big tournament and see how many people use wavedashing. every single person maybe? yea pr0bl3y

If anyone makes a reference to Aniki you are ********.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Basically, heres lies wherein your logic doesnt add up dylan. relatively speaking to the game, you find wd essential and you basically said your game would fall apart without it.

Yes. And it would fall apart without it. I would probably lose every match I played if I used fox, shiek, or mario, one of my 3 mains in either melee or brawl if WDing magically disappeared. I whor pulsewalking too much to lose my wavedash.

Funny thing is, you're some great ssb player amirite? so whats up with that? relatively speaking you find ways to be great at ssb without the inclusion of wd.

CAPTAIN FALCON

Thus, relatively speaking, it simply does not make logical sense to assume that without wd, brawl would be any less of a game than melee was/is

I didn't say it wouldn't be great without the WD. Just that I personally would either not play or be very sceptical about competing in it if I did buy it... and I dont see a point to playing smash non competitively as it gets boring after a few hours so meh. However I don't assume the game wont be a huge success, I really am not arrogant enough to think my personal feelings will affect the smash community

and you any less of a player than you are/could be. It just doesnt make sense. period.

Yes. it does. In melee, when I play mario/shiek/fox I wavedash CONSTANTLY. Not as spam, not as anything but for spacing and mindgames. I really, really depend on it in tight spots, I dunno just watch some matches of me playing on youtube or wtv.

Without the wavedash I would suck at brawl. Yes I am among my nations best players in ssb64, yes I am a strong player in melee, but I know my own playstyle and Brawl is going to bear close resemblence to melee, not to ssb64. Without the wavedash I'll either play captain falcon like I do in ssb64 or not play at all. Don't tell me my logic is flawed because I know my own playstyle better than anyone ever will.

 

[BentoBox]

Dude do you have any idea how many techniques are involved at top level ssb64 play? About as many as melee, sure the wavedash is gone but DI requires so much effort, shuairs are impossible to do on dpad and very hard on keyboard. Easy on n64 controller but we dont all have an adaptor

Also :

This game should always function by malva's law. ''Don't get hit'' smash is an intellectual game about noticing the patterns in your opponents playstyle and improvising a new one based on an instintual mastery of your main characters moveset that will counter the one he is doing. It is up to YOU to create various playstyles and to master the various movesets of the characters you choose to play.

Since the game at the highest level requires you to know how to use or at least counter the advanced techniques, but that is JUST the beginning of one's journey to the top in smash. Techniques must be learned but it is the intellectual game that takes a lifetime, and there's no tier list holding you back from developing that.

If you'd read more of my many posts on this forum you'd know how I think, and you'd know that I don't look at smash with a closed mind. It is incredibly deep and I give it the respect it deserves. Removing a technique in my opinion, however, is still a bad idea that would do nothing but destroy what could be a better SSB Brawl. I also am beginning to have a few inklings that WD will be in brawl...




It most certainly did. When ssb64 came out I was about 12 years old and I played vs level 9 computers and mained link. I then played casually with some friends... then we got melee, sucked at it, quit, went back to ssb64, learned cancelling and all that ''advanced'' whatnot, came back to melee, learned the techniques, and since then have been working on our intellectual game since our ''ADVANNNNNCEDDDDDD'' techniques are pretty much sharp as a knife.

But then my melee game affected my outlook on how ssb64 was played, I went back to it online and competitive and discovered I was wanted for the 2nd best clan in the world and that unless I face someone of extremly high calibur I always, always win.

And yes, without the wavedash in brawl, if brawl is anything like melee... and I really think thats what its going to be based on I, personally, me, Dylan_Tnga will not be very good at the game with fox sheik (if shes in) or mario, my 3 mains.

I will however pick captain falcon and learn his new style for brawl and wont bother worrying about the WD if its out. I'll be dissapointed still though and probably won't buy it, it realllly depends. I'm very stoic on this wavedash thing and no ammount of internet namecalling is going to change that.



GOOD ONE!!!!

YOU WIN A ****IN' PRIZE! *shakes head in shame and walks away from thread*

I can't believe you even ended your post with that crap. Come on now.

1. About the idiot thing, that was a simply reply to you calling me an idiot. ;] What do you get for winning the internet?

2. No, you do -not- know if you'll end up maining as shiek/mario/fox/cf simply because you and I don't know who's going to be part of the cast this time around. That's just blind speculation. You don't know if said characters, if they were to return, would end up being good or sucking major ***. If fox were to be bottom, I'm sure as hell you wouldn't be playing it. And so what if you're not going to be good at the game when starting out? It took years for SSBM to get to this point competitively and I cannot quite understand why you'd be in such a hurry for SSBB's metagame to completely evolve. Regardless of the techs we'll lose, you'll still be able to read your opponents moves as well, you'll still have the same mindgame edge over the opponents you've fought and crushed in the past. I am in no way downgrading WD's importance in SSBM but SSBB isn't a v2.0. And that's one thing you gotta get through your head because in every single of your posts you always talk as if it'd just be SSBM getting minimal upgrades which wouldn't require you to adapt to anything at all. [you keeping the same mains being a perfect example]. Sakurai -did- say that most things would feel a tad different, all of us should be thrown off at first. You included.

Crouch dancing might be the next best thing. Who knows. No you don't.

GoodDay2Usir.

 

[JPOBS]

well then whatever floats your boat, tickles your fancy, is your cup of tea and all that jazz.

 

[BentoBox]

And about WD being a bug or not... Sure, the devs knew about it. That's how the engine behaves so that the characters don't get stuck into the ground so they had no reason to remove it. But never could they imagine back then that dodging into the ground would have so much impact on our gameplay. They could easily find a solution to these occurences if they feel like it shouldn't stay. Let them do their job and see how it turns out.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

whats the big deal about wavedashing?

It's pretty simple...wavedashing will not make you good, but i think 99% of players who can't wavedash are not good at all. If a player is good, he will know how to wavedash and use it. it's like a correlation more than a requirement. go to a big tournament and see how many people use wavedashing. every single person maybe? yea pr0bl3y

If anyone makes a reference to Aniki you are ********.

You totally and completly rule.

No, you do -not- know if you'll end up maining as shiek/mario/fox/cf simply because you and I don't know who's going to be part of the cast this time around. That's just blind speculation.

Only one that im not sure about is sheik. Fox mario and falcon are all going to be in Brawl. two are already confirmed and there's a better chance of Wayne Gretsky being in brawl than captain falcon not being in it.

Regardless of the techs we'll lose, you'll still be able to read your opponents moves as well, you'll still have the same mindgame edge over the opponents you've fought and crushed in the past. I am in no way downgrading WD's importance in SSBM but SSBB isn't a v2.0. And that's one thing you gotta get through your head because in every single of your posts you always talk as if it'd just be SSBM getting minimal upgrades which wouldn't require you to adapt to anything at all. [you keeping the same mains being a perfect example]. Sakurai -did- say that most things would feel a tad different, all of us should be thrown off at first. You included.

Very good point, but it looks like Brawl's physics are very closely related to melee's due to it being an advanced smash game. SSB64 is great but look at how basic it is, obviously for gamecube they had to make a big jump.

Anyhow I dont know anything for sure but methinks Brawl WILL feel a LOT like melee, or at least more like melee than melee feels like ssb64.

 

[the grim lizard]

I can't play Captain Falcon on 64 because I always try to do the knee.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I can't play Captain Falcon on 64 because I always try to do the knee.

He lacks the knee in ssb64. Knee for brawl!

...

**** the wavedash! No knee then I boycott brawl!

 

[Rash]

Here's how I see it: the previous two incarnations of Smash are two of the greatest games of all time, easily. But, that doesn't mean there should be a complete desire for Brawl to be as much like them as possible.

I hope Brawl feels the least like SSB64 and SSBM as possible, actually, but in a good way. Of course a lot of basic mechanics will stay in, and most returning characters will not be completely different from their Melee counterparts (meaning that, even if people do have to adjust, it's not like they'll be doing it in the same way as learning a completely new character). However, I personally would think of it as a Godsend if Brawl feels like its own game and that everything Sakurai is doing to make it a unique and fun experience would NOT necessarily include making it too much like its predecessors. I know I'm not the only one who doesn't want Brawl to be Melee 2.0, not by a long shot.

Brawl is looking fantastic, and regardless of whether or not the wavedash is in the game, I'm looking forward to everything about the game that makes it different and/or better than Melee. That should be the main focus, as I see it, right now. People should look at the changes made from Melee to Brawl in the positive way that everything which was added to make Smash a deeper experience would also make up for certain things that may have been removed from the previous games' formulas, even on the most miniscule level.

Personally, as I've always said, I don't see a point in removing the wavedash-allowing mechanic. However, in my mind it's just a tad foolish to think that there won't be plenty of other things about Brawl that would keep it as good of a fun or competitive game as Melee, if by chance the WD was in fact taken out.

 

[the grim lizard]

I hope Brawl feels the least like SSB64 and SSBM as possible. Of course a lot of basic mechanics will stay in, and most returning characters will not be completely different from their Melee counterparts (meaning that, even if people do have to adjust, it's not like they'll be doing it in the same way as learning a completely new character). However, I personally would think of it as a Godsend if Brawl feels like its own game and that everything Sakurai is doing to make it a unique and fun experience would NOT necessarily include making it too much like its predecessors. I know I'm not the only one who doesn't want Brawl to be Melee 2.0, not by a long shot.

Brawl is looking fantastic, and regardless of whether or not the wavedash is in the game, I'm looking forward to everything about the game that makes it different and/or better than Melee, in the way that everything that was added to make it a deeper experience would make up for anything that was taken out of the previous games' formulas.

Melee was about moving from the N64 engine to the GCN engine. There was less time for debugging/balancing/perfecting the game (fun as it was). I think Melee was a learning experience, and the majority of Brawl development will be (has been) focussed on gameplay and making every character worth playing...doing their best to balance it AMAP. Sakurai, I believe, has already expressed his desire to do so many time.

Bottom line: I think Brawl will have the best gameplay of any of the three.

 

[BentoBox]

Here's how I see it: the previous two incarnations of Smash are two of the greatest games of all time, easily. But, that doesn't mean there should be a complete desire for Brawl to be as much like them as possible.

I hope Brawl feels the least like SSB64 and SSBM as possible, actually, but in a good way. Of course a lot of basic mechanics will stay in, and most returning characters will not be completely different from their Melee counterparts (meaning that, even if people do have to adjust, it's not like they'll be doing it in the same way as learning a completely new character). However, I personally would think of it as a Godsend if Brawl feels like its own game and that everything Sakurai is doing to make it a unique and fun experience would NOT necessarily include making it too much like its predecessors. I know I'm not the only one who doesn't want Brawl to be Melee 2.0, not by a long shot.

Brawl is looking fantastic, and regardless of whether or not the wavedash is in the game, I'm looking forward to everything about the game that makes it different and/or better than Melee. That should be the main focus, as I see it, right now. People should look at the changes made from Melee to Brawl in the positive way that everything which was added to make Smash a deeper experience would also make up for certain things that may have been removed from the previous games' formulas, even on the most miniscule level.

Personally, as I've always said, I don't see a point in removing the wavedash-allowing mechanic. However, in my mind it's just a tad foolish to think that there won't be plenty of other things about Brawl that would keep it as good of a fun or competitive game as Melee, if by chance the WD was in fact taken out.

Hallelujah!

 

[maxpower1227]

If I try to play melee without wavedashing I automatically get 3-4 stocked by my friends just because I leave myself way more open to attack. The ONLY character like Ive mentioned that I dont need wavedashing more so much is falcon due to his style of play. Fox without wavedashing I might aswell just quit playing him, shiek I could MAYBE do, and mario NO WAY IN HELL COULD I PLAY MARIO WITHOUT WDING. NOOOO WAY. No way omfg mario without wavedashing... lowwww tier.

Wow, that's pretty sad. I have played Melee with and without advanced techniques. I was never proficient at wavedashing, but I could do it at times, and my play was usually full of other techniques like dashdancing, circle jumping, SHFFLs, shine spikes, etc. But no one technique was SO critical to my game that I was useless without it. Even before I learned the advanced techniques, I beat event 50 with Link in 2 1/2 minutes (maybe not that impressive I know, but Link wasn't exactly great in Melee), and beat it overall with at least 15 of the characters.. using nothing like wavedashing or other techniques that the computers or average players can't use. To me Smash Bros was just always about skillfully applying your character's moves, exploiting their abilities, and having very quick reflexes. Even at the most advanced stage of my play, when Fox was my main, I could terrorize people just find without his wavedashing. He had excellent speed regardless.

 

[Luigi Ka-master]

Holy crap man,took the words right outta my mouth.Not only that bro,its kinda f-up and unbalanced for a person to have to learn the WD in order to even have a chance Vs another that knows how to use it properly.Is it so broken to others that they cant do **** about it?Hell no,but Ill tell you this tho,try playing people that dont know anything about the tournment techniques and then you can begin see the major skill gap between you and your opponent as you WD and pre-perdict where his roll is gonna end up at.The only thing currently I dont mind returning is the L-cancel tho,because its not that even useful until you have successfully hit your opponent to begin with,and its been in 2 smash games already.

Uhh...no, not a good idea. Why would you want an advanced technique that's twice as useful as WD gone from the game? And yes, believe me, it is in fact twice as useful, if not more.

Let me just put it this way...smash can be plenty deep without WD, but it would be near garbage without l-cancel.

And just so people know, I'm definately not against having WD return to Brawl. WD is my faaaavorite.

 

[Dragonboy2k4]

See,its things like this I will never understand.People sit there,and own at tournments,and the ones that do know that if they earned 1st place,they know their way of adaptablity(a.k.a skill) was much better than there 2nd-3rd place opponents.Cuz in battle,due to the vast amount of fighting styles out there,some techniques approuches shutdown others,thus creating the window of adaption.Whoever is the quickest in getting though that window can overcome whats being done to them,and preform visa-versa before its too late.

So,with that being said,there are times when wavedashing will NOT work because the person your fighting has a counter for it,reguardless if you havent ran into that individual IRL yet.

With that said,if WD is taking out of the game,why in the **** is it the end of the world?!! Learn to adapt when its not available! Its just like when people are shuting that technique down,you cant use it,am I wrong?.Saying otherwise is false and shows your in denial.Anyhow,Pros arent judged on how well they can space,they are really looked apon other things:

1:Adaptabilty:the way they adjust to whats been changed on the battlegrounds,rather it be turtling,pitbulling or others.How quick they adapt do it is important as well.

2rediction:Knowing the instant a mistake happens and captailzing,before it even happens.Studying attack patterns and memory also plays a part here,as well as speed reaction of doing so.

With those bro,you cannot lose anytime soon depending how quick your timing actucally is.Its about the individual dude,not some slide.