Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
I only try to kill with Dacus if I expect someone to jump, or do an otherwise laggy move (like Peach pulling a turnip) other than that... the risk reward is just too scary D:
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Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
tututootru
If you condition people with jab->short->jab->short->repeat they start to try and DI away which makes jab short Dsmash that much more powerful.
DK is heavy as hell but look how far those dsmashes hit after like 140 even when they have a little decay on them. more than across the SV with good DI.
learning ftilt usmash is huge. DK has percents where fresh ftilt->usmash connects and kills I believe; so just throwing that out there.
fresh vanish is a nice kill too or a worst a nice way to set up a double transform to refresh all your kills (turn fair and bair and nair back into kills)
DK is heavy as hell but look how far those dsmashes hit after like 140 even when they have a little decay on them. more than across the SV with good DI. Dsmash is a suprizingly reliable kill but people over use it (IMO) as a get off me move, when jab does the same thing but far better.
If you condition people with jab->short->jab->short->repeat they start to try and DI away which makes jab short Dsmash that much more powerful.
DK is heavy as hell but look how far those dsmashes hit after like 140 even when they have a little decay on them. more than across the SV with good DI.
learning ftilt usmash is huge. DK has percents where fresh ftilt->usmash connects and kills I believe; so just throwing that out there.
fresh vanish is a nice kill too or a worst a nice way to set up a double transform to refresh all your kills (turn fair and bair and nair back into kills)
DK is heavy as hell but look how far those dsmashes hit after like 140 even when they have a little decay on them. more than across the SV with good DI. Dsmash is a suprizingly reliable kill but people over use it (IMO) as a get off me move, when jab does the same thing but far better.
Dsmash is certainly nowhere near MK dsmash power and as long as you DI that move to the upper corner you live forever.
I don't think it's too unrealistic for a DK to be living past 160 even with a fresh dsmash depending on stage position.
I don't think it's too unrealistic for a DK to be living past 160 even with a fresh dsmash depending on stage position.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Seems still that you need a really good stage position to do it at 160+.
En.Ee.Oh
Smash Champion
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- 2,527
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
I'll most likely be attending cot5, and SiiS 5. Apparently Mi is going to be hosting a regional over the summer as well, idk how its gonna turn out though. Anyway I've been doing a lot of thinking on how to get off of the level of mediocrity that I'm currently on, and if all goes well I should be placing a lot higher in the near future.
KenniSpam!
Smash Master
i'd probably go to that MI regional
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
I have no clue if/when it's happening. Theres been talk of it but an actual thread has yet to be made so it really could go either way.
KenniSpam!
Smash Master
if its in july/august, im pretty much confirmed for it
Judo777
Smash Master
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- Sep 9, 2008
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- 3,627
Needles don't clash with anything they are transcendant as tutu said. You can't needle sonic our if invinci spin dash because he has no hurtbox as long as the move is out. However clanks only interact with hitboxes so you can clank the move with any grounded move of sheiks.
Rules of clashing.
1. Transcendant moves CANNOT clash under any circumstance.
2. All B moves can clash. (bar rule 1)
3. Aerials cannot clash with anything except B moves.
4. Grounded moves can clash with other grounded moves and B moves (bar rule 1)
5. In order for any move to clash (if able) the 2 moves connecting must be within 8% of each other.
6.When grounded moves clash they cancel the animation and reset, if an aerial move clashes the move continues with the animation and later hitboxes can still come out. (this also applies to B moves as well as aerials)
7. If a move exceeds an 8% differenc of a move that it can clash with, the stronger move continues after the hit (generally hitting the opponent) while the weaker move resets as if clashed.
8. Some moves in the game are normals or aerials that act as B moves. (examples being olimars pikmin based attacks which can be clanked with aerials, as well as all other moves, bar rule 1. Another example being MK's DA and Glide attack which can also clank with aerials, as well as other moves, bar rule 1.)
I think thats everything feel free to correct me Ank but i think that's how it all works.
Rules of clashing.
1. Transcendant moves CANNOT clash under any circumstance.
2. All B moves can clash. (bar rule 1)
3. Aerials cannot clash with anything except B moves.
4. Grounded moves can clash with other grounded moves and B moves (bar rule 1)
5. In order for any move to clash (if able) the 2 moves connecting must be within 8% of each other.
6.When grounded moves clash they cancel the animation and reset, if an aerial move clashes the move continues with the animation and later hitboxes can still come out. (this also applies to B moves as well as aerials)
7. If a move exceeds an 8% differenc of a move that it can clash with, the stronger move continues after the hit (generally hitting the opponent) while the weaker move resets as if clashed.
8. Some moves in the game are normals or aerials that act as B moves. (examples being olimars pikmin based attacks which can be clanked with aerials, as well as all other moves, bar rule 1. Another example being MK's DA and Glide attack which can also clank with aerials, as well as other moves, bar rule 1.)
I think thats everything feel free to correct me Ank but i think that's how it all works.
It's apparently actually 8%, while it was 10% in 64. If the difference is over the threshold, the weaker move is canceled while the stronger one keeps going and its hitbox remains active.
Other than that yeah pretty much. The DK ftilt thing is new to me though.
I'd actually prefer Sheik's Melee needles that clashed with everything.
Other than that yeah pretty much. The DK ftilt thing is new to me though.
I'd actually prefer Sheik's Melee needles that clashed with everything.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I wish Lucario's AS was transcendent, then I wouldn't have to worry about it being fanned by the occasional marth fair T_T
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
are you the same twenty two that was at pound? I heard that guy mained snake...
why would i be jealous of a sheik thats worse than mine?
this post should be the OP of its own thread that can be saved for (tons of) future reference.
ps. rule 6 is the reason mks tornado ***** everything but resets him when hes on the ground with it.
how come sometimes i clank with it, and other times it just straight eats my moves? is it because of the % thing?
I think I posted the rules a loooooooooong time ago. Like a year and a half ago.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8417616#post8417616
Only change since then is that it's been discovered to be 8%, not 10%.
Yes.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Yup, depends on charge of AS (obviously fully charged is going to do more than uncharged), timing of said attack (because some attacks have weaker hitboxes later), and hitbox v. hurtbox as well (DK's nair has a bigger hurtbox than hitbox, for example.)
Judo777
Smash Master
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Fixed.
And i might resubmit it in the tactical thread just to keep it fresh. Also Ank did I send you a PM. If you got it could you reply when you get around to it cause i feel obligated to fix something.
true. but those situations come up frequently in this game.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I think that if they clashed with everything, on one hand, multiple needles would be really good with that trait because you'd only need one to bust through a projectile or something to cancel it, then the others go right through (at least that's what I think you want from that kind of effect), on the other hand, single needles would be considerably weaker
Judo777
Smash Master
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Hey sheiks quick question cause i recently learned something that bugs me and i want to know if there is any way out other than "don't be in that spot."
Turns out this is true for several characters with similar weight to us but, if we are standing on a platform and shield an attack that pushes us off the platform backwards, We CANNOT TECH the floor bounce. This is an absolutely terrible position for us and I can't figure out any options once this happens to prevent a bounce and possible jab lock setup or even a kill.
Anyone know anything about something we can do?
Turns out this is true for several characters with similar weight to us but, if we are standing on a platform and shield an attack that pushes us off the platform backwards, We CANNOT TECH the floor bounce. This is an absolutely terrible position for us and I can't figure out any options once this happens to prevent a bounce and possible jab lock setup or even a kill.
Anyone know anything about something we can do?
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
I may o rmay not be thinking of the right thing, but I think we can jump before hitting the floor?
Also I'm not Twenty-two the Snake Main. I'm Sailor Princess Twenty-two aka Tutu. I just heavily enjoy messing around with my name :<.
Also I'm not Twenty-two the Snake Main. I'm Sailor Princess Twenty-two aka Tutu. I just heavily enjoy messing around with my name :<.
Judo777
Smash Master
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I can't manage to jump. I don't think I'm timing it wrong either.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Let's see if I can find that thread saviorslegacy scrounged up in the smash lab, he was working on something like this iirc...
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Can't we attack?
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Doesn't it also depend on which plat we fall from?
Like we could probably do stuff falling from SV's plat, but I'm sure that we can't for BF
Like we could probably do stuff falling from SV's plat, but I'm sure that we can't for BF
See: Melee Sheik throwing a single needle to cancel a fully charged Samus charge shot.I think that if they clashed with everything, on one hand, multiple needles would be really good with that trait because you'd only need one to bust through a projectile or something to cancel it, then the others go right through (at least that's what I think you want from that kind of effect), on the other hand, single needles would be considerably weaker
I think I have naired before hitting the ground.
Not 100% on that though when that happens it really sucks.
En.Ee.Oh
Smash Champion
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phi1ny3
Not the Mama
See though, the only kill-worthy projectile you'd need to stop in this game is Aura sphere.
Every other projectile that's "good" seems to have a looot more fire rate than ours, and less damage/KB (aka less worth trying to put a stop to). Most of the other ones that are more capable of killing at top play (albeit at very high percents) would be ones with their own hurtboxes like grenades and gyros, which transcendent needles do better against iirc.
tbh the thing I think sheik's needles need the most is Melee needle canceling, that would add some interesting defensive and even possibly different approach options (although not likely because shield in this game's so good lol)
iLight
Smash Lord
pretty sure the only time you can't tech when you would otherwise just 'bounce' on the ground is when you are footstool'd, the timing on the tech from getting knocked off a platform is just hard
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Ah, here it is:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290794
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290794
Oh boy, I got myself into a lot of work. -_-
I made that video and didn't realize I would need so much testing. So I decided to test and see who can escape these kinds of combo's.
(I am testing to see if you can escape after someone has attacked your shield and sent you falling.)
All tests were NOT performed in training mode and were performed at the far right platform at Battle Field.
In each test I tested 3 things.
#1 jumping
#2 their fastest airial
#3 Their up B.
Below are my results.
He can escape it.
He can escape it.
She can escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
She can escape it.
She can NOT escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can escape it.
She can escape it.
She can NOT escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
They can escape it.
On a side note.
I was able to desync them while falling.
It can escape it.
He can escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He mange's to avoid all harm including this.
He can NOT escape it.
She can escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can escape it.
She can escape it.
He can escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He can escape it.
He can NOT escape it.
He an NOT escape it.
On a side note.
You have to attack someone's shield when they are facing with their back to where they are falling.
In other words. If they are standing on the far right platform at the left edge their back must be to the left.
Also, you have to attack the back of their shield with a stronger attack. You can attack the front of their shield with a jab.
Every character can escape being attacked from behind except for Fox.
It also prevents reflecting the needles from doing anything useful, as well as remaining active even if you just tossed them into the ground. They also allowed you to cut straight through even normally transcendent projectiles like lasers because, like PK Fire, they had hurtboxes.
En.Ee.Oh
Smash Champion
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im saying tho, i watched goggles struggle vs a mediocre MK @ pound (shoutouts to tant) and somehow he has this magical and experienced sheik that has been better than mine since he saw me vs ADHD (w/ 0 videos online or tourney results to back up his claim)
whatever keeps you truckin gogglez
Judo777
Smash Master
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Oh sry yea BF plats are the only ones im talking about right now and no you can't attack either I don't think sheik has any options to avoid this.
@Light. No you cannot tech for some reason or another I am positive of this. Its almost like a footstool its frustrating.
@Light. No you cannot tech for some reason or another I am positive of this. Its almost like a footstool its frustrating.
clowsui
Smash Legend
yeah judo there isn't really anything you can do about it 
i use this for laser lock setups sometimes xD
i use this for laser lock setups sometimes xD
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
How to avoid it:
Get off the platform!
Get off the platform!
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
im saying tho, i watched goggles struggle vs a mediocre MK @ pound (shoutouts to tant) and somehow he has this magical and experienced sheik that has been better than mine since he saw me vs ADHD (w/ 0 videos online or tourney results to back up his claim)
whatever keeps you truckin gogglez
1. lol.
2. you stick to your main, ill stick to mine.
3. If im struggling vs a mediocre MK, I guess that means I would put yours on blast then...
4. maybe next time, youll be man enough to play me yourself, otherwise, just stick to being being a terrible coach. =P
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
At the end of they day ya boy Sailor Princess Twenty-Two is Forever the best Sheik.