A URC members thoughts on the Metaknight Ban

[OmniOstrich]

The question I have is: where has MikeHAZE been ever since this thread began? One would think that a qualified member/top player such as himself (according to the video) would be addressing these arguments personally.

Please refer to MikeHaze's post within this thread for an answer to your question.

 

[Krystedez]

He's rather just ignore them for personal reasons.

 

[Tearbear]

reposting from youtube because I don't wanna flood your page on youtube+char limit.

No offense Mike but this is incredibly arrogant and ultimately proves nothing. This reminds me of Ray Comfort logic with interviewing people who don't know about a topic in an attempt to debunk the topic. This was dishonest and misleading, Apart from educating me on who is in the URC this really just was full of fallacious logic and misleading statements. Also I think after many things you and other "Top Players" have said and done. You are just selfish and in it for yourselves.
Like when S Cali came to Supercon last year. Colorado was fortunate enough to get some new faces from the area to enter the tournament and check out the scene. Many of which I got to interact with in an attempt to befriend them. We never saw any of them again after their interactions with M2K, Tearbear and a couple of others. In pools tearbear picked Bowser and infinite grab released one of them who played ness and did little else. It was obvious that the player was very new to the game.
That didn't stop Tearbear from doing any of the ****ish things he did. Also then to make fun of new people in the game. In fact he referred to one of the girl smashers as "should get back in the kitchen." Apart from Havoc and Hugs the rest of S Cali that attended supercon were some of the most self indulged pricks I have ever seen which really made me sad because I really looked up to them. Attitudes like that chase off new players and make many people quit in our scene. Some of them I invited to supercon but after their brushes with m2k, Tearbear, Cheese and a couple of other players they said that they couldn't be part of a community where people were so rude. I know this is long after the fact but at the same time after being there to witness that; I don't give a **** what any of the top level players have to say anymore. People like m2k, Tearbear and others did much more harm to our scene than good. And watching, they still display the same arrogance that really is just disgusting. I am glad I live in Colorado. We may not have a top scene. But we never treat people the way some of your PR and other pros treated some of our potential and long time players. We always welcome people with open arms.

i did no such thing of reffering to that girl to"get back to the kitchen" I mean I did make her rage quit but it wasnt my intention to make her rage quit I did talk about it since it turned out to be a funny story

as for the bowser thing I didnt think much of it since he was ness and he coulda basically gotten 80% outta me with pk fire so I just did grab release stuff with that in my mind I apologize for that since I didnt know he was new and im actually against that kinda stuff
at least I didnt go ICs and just 0-death people in friendlies
and you act like i knew he was new

so stfu

 

[Mozz]

The thing I noticed is you made it seem like since the rules committee was full of non top players, it's credibility was not as high as its power, I've noticed though that the committee really does at least have the majority of it's members as "top" players. Maybe not the best of the best, but when over half the members have been at one point in the Regional/National Power Rankings, (most currently) it does make me look back at your video and think you are giving the quality of play of the URC a raw deal.


Out of all the members of the Rules Committee, we got these players in the official SWF Brawl Rankings, (national top 5%) page based on tournament results CURRENTLY

Mike Haze
Bizkit
AlphaZealot
ChiboSempai
M@V
Player1
UTDZac


Ranked on Regional but not in top 5%
TinMan

Formerly ranked, no longer ranked
Xyro
possibly others but I'm not sure

Now, you can say they aren't "the best of the best", but as a group they're good results wise. 9 out of 17 being ranked either regionally in the top players list or nationally in the tourney results list at one point isn't something to sneeze at

 

[KiraFlax]

Not appropriate

~ Red Ryu

 

[Eddie G]

Kira you need to edit that crap out of your post. I'm not even kidding.

 

[Nike.]

And I won't even lie...I've always thought that despite the EC's Metaknight inflation, they still maintained decent attendance due in part to high population, close proximity, and better public transportation (than most of the country at least); I#m not taking any credit away from the TOs there though, I know they do their part passionately. Trust me, when you travel to tournaments over long distances in the Midwest (even within one's own state), that **** takes mad commitment lol.

Try living in a state the size of the entire Atlantic North, which has a whopping 4-5 cities with an actual scene lol.

 

[Reizilla]

And Texas is still the best. 2 1/2 hour drives for locals? Sounds like fun.

 

[Tesh]

Mikehaze should start a new tournament series. First, 2nd and 3rd place winners get to make the ruleset for the next event.

 

[Xnpio]

I would like to say that I have been lurking the MK ban / URC threads pretty intensely.
DeLux, you make wonderful posts, and I highly approve of your approach to all of this.

I originally watched Mike's video and thought it to be very interesting, and as an eye-opener.
However, while reading this entire thread, I have realized that the members of the URC really are very qualified for what they do, especially considering that they took all sorts of data that has been collected into their decision, rather than "lolz mk is so gay, can't stand playing against him and losing, ban him nao!"

Props to the URC members for being able to back themselves and each other up.

 

[mikeHAZE]

However, while reading this entire thread, I have realized that the members of the URC really are very qualified for what they do, especially considering that they took all sorts of data that has been collected into their decision, rather than "lolz mk is so gay, can't stand playing against him and losing, ban him nao!"

Can you please tell me how you feel each member is qualified to make votes that require in depth analysis? It would really be an eye opener for me.



for reference, here is the list:




AlphaZealot (Ohio)
Bizkit (New England) Ranked 2
DeLux (Kansas)
Player-1 (Georgia) Ranked 3
t1mmy (Oregon)
T-block (West Canada)
tin Man (East Canada) Ranked 2
Today (Ohio)
ChiboSempai (Pennsylvania) Ranked 4
M@V (Pennsylvania) Ranked #5
Yink (Iowa)
UtD Zac (Texas)
Technical Chase (Michigan) #8
Xyro77 (Texas)
Ran (Colorado)
Fluttershy (Utah)
MikeHAZE (California) #2


Please don't say "they host big tournament" as i do not believe this is a qualification that should give a member the power to make important decisions.

Mass game experience + Tournament Organizer + Mass understanding of the game = Amazing ruleset.

 

[M@v]

I'm ranked 5th in PA

 

[DeLux]

KS PR hasn't been updated since last October.
Colorado's is probably out of date since -Ran JUST moved there.
Tech Chase is ranked in Michigan.


But for the sake of the argument I don't have mass game experience nor do I have a mass understanding of the game in comparison to the other players.

And for the sake of the argument, player results weren't listed as a criteria of evaluating player merit.

 

[mikeHAZE]

thanks for the input. anybody know what tech chase is ranked?

Since Ran just moved CO, do you have a link to what he was ranked in Louisiana before moving?

 

[Zankoku]

Tech Chase is ranked 8th in Michigan.

 

[DeLux]

Tech Chase is currently ranked 8th in Michigan.

You should probably ask -Ran in person if you're going to push a player results and ranking credential assessment as an evaluative criterion.

He would know better than I would.

Just like in the case for myself if you had done due diligence in research, you would have been told that the KS PR is so out of date and has such a small sample size it's meaningless.

OR alternatively, Rajam's SWF Power Ranking (based on activity and results) lists players all the way to 4500ish last time I checked.

OR John#s has been tracking money earned by results this year alone.

I'm not saying you shouldn't bring up concerns, but you really are falling into the same trap of what you're accusing us baddies on the URC that don't have mass experience or mass understanding of the game of promoting.

I could just as easily call you out on not having proper understanding of policy implementation theory because you haven't received a BA or MPA in Public Administration that I'm 1/2 of the way to getting before we even start talking in the context of Brawl. If you had the proper understanding on policy implementation, you would realize the following:

Any credibility attacks ultimately don't matter.

On a theoretical level, how an individual person defines legitimacy on a macro level doesn't matter. Because on the micro level, the community will ultimately define legitimacy for itself.

I said this before the MK Ban for the Ban movement, and I'll reiterate it for the anti-ban movement.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE POLICY, GO CHANGE IT

If we, the URC, are so unqualified and lacking ethos to make rules, then make your own.

If you look at SWF in from a governing body level, the URC has absolutely no executive discretion or authority in how we enforce our rules. We simply ask that the community follows our rules, and for some reason they do. We don't make anyone do anything. The question of, "What gives these 17 TO's the authority to make decisions?" is utterly and absolutely meaningless. Because at the end of the day on the micro level, a TO will ultimately choose the ruleset for himself. It goes as follows that we absolutely and categorically did not ban metaknight. We only banned him in a specific ruleset of Brawl. However, that doesn't change the fact that the TO's around the community could ban metaknight if that's what they want.

A legislative body has no power without the executive body. We can legislate all we want, but if nobody listens, then we really didn't legislate anything. At the same time, if everyone listens, we STILL didn't legislate anything because it's merely the TO's acting as both legislature AND executioner. Even more so, if the group acting in the context of free will chooses to adopt our ruleset, flawed as it may be, it speaks more to the will of the community than it does to anything else. And in reality, they'll listen to us if they agree with our rules, existing outside of the context of credibility. This is further supported by your notion of asking, "can you name URC members?". They are using our ruleset without wondering questioning if the party is credible. Perhaps it isn't an issue of credibility and is more a vindication of content.

If you have an issue with the whole policy things on stickies, then you have an issue with the staff of the site, not the URC. And if you think that is really a method of executive authority on the URC's part, it's absolutely laughable. But honestly, you should be questioning the staff policy and not the credibility of the URC if that's your angle.

Regardless, your argument shouldn't be an attack on the credibility of the TO's in the URC. Doing that is a slap in the face to all the TO's and the community as a whole in the event THEY execute using the URS.

This is why I've been personally insulted by these warrantless attacks. They are at best misdirected and at worst specious AND spiteful.

If you don't like the decisions, you either have an issue with EVERY TO in the country OR you have an issue with site policy. The community is what ultimately gives us our "authority", and your actions indicate to me that you've really lost site of that fact. And I'm not talking about it on a personal level, "do you know this player" and all the other things that matter. The true credibility lies in what rules are being used, not why.

 

[B.A.M.]

Well Delux Im pretty sure what Mike is saying is that there needs to be more of a balance in the committee. Mike isnt just going to do whatever the hell he wants and say screw you guys. Dont forget he is a TO as well; he wants the best for the community. He wants it to thrive. URC has power, saying it doesnt is ridiculous when it comprises of TOs of some of the top tournament/ circuit events in our community. So lets be realistic here. Im sure he also understands that having a committee such as URC is good, which is why he is actively critiquing it.

You are telling him to go out and change it. It begins with being vocal; which he is doing. Its not as if he said anything hurtful. I dont remember him stating that everyone in URC is fail. No he didnt say anything of the sort. The group as a collective whole has many issue internally that need to be fixed. If you want to make solid rules for the community, you should have representatives of the community. Players that can suggest what would work and what wouldnt. Time and time again, I hear ADHD talk about vs MK how the CP system makes it ridiculously hard. Or DEHF says WITH the current Stage List he is broken; that this needs to be changed. Stage analysis and indepth discussion should be done with these things in mind.

When you have people who research data in the game working cohesively with top TOs and top players, we could start to make a gargantuan amount of progress in making a solid Rule set for this game. And I know you do research all the time Delux, but I want the rest of URC to be honest with themselves; are you doing all doing that? Even if you say yes its probably not on the level as some of these people who have dedicated time to constantly ***** the stages such as BPC ( i know crazy).

I mean if you look at all the people in the URC with a few outliers like Mike and Delux, everyone is basically in the same in terms of what they can bring to the table. That is absolutely terrible to have when you create a committee or business because for you TOs it IS business. You dont make a committee with with the same uniform people. That creates incredible bias ( I mean really 14-0, thats absurd). You get people from different parts of the community; people whose complement each other in terms of strengths.

Its also good, because URC can truly unify the community through other ways such as discussing with top players how to better the skill of our community overall ( Smashfest that actually have people sharing information so our players arent so frustrated all the time. heck theres info some top players could pick up as well). Like Im not trying to boast about So Cal, but something that always kept me in the community even with all these other obligations, was the fact that even though we had a wide array of skill levels, people were always learning from one another and sharing information in this game. Top players in our region, who happen to be top players nationally, would sit down with people and discuss how to deal with certain issues and what not. I mean if it wasnt for people like Tyrant, there would be a strong possibility that I would claim MK is broken even if I didnt want to admit it ( i love challenges), however theres somethings he would see that I didnt and it made everything exponentially easier. My point being is having top players in URC would be good because they can be PR to the people; they can explain why certain rules are they way they are, how to go about things so people see the game as somewhat balanced with the Rule set. The more thats done, the more unified we all become.

I cannot stress enough how young our community is. Because of the lost of Smash Veterans in the transition to brawl, there have been very few leaders in the community. URC can do that, but it cant do it with just straight up TOs. Thats just the honest truth, and if you think otherwise youre full of yourself. Sure you could be selfish and be like no one should have a say in how we run our tournies. You have the ability to do that; however Im hoping you actually care about the community and want everyone to make progress. You can lead with words as TOs, but its also critical to have top players that can lead by example.

And this lack of transparency needs to stop. If you are all doing these indepth discussions and analysis, then why wouldnt you want to show it? What harm would that have? Of course you dont have to divulge everything, but this circumlocutory talk ( AZ my dude you are King of this) needs to stop. I want to trust the URC, but when I see people like P-1 arguing with Jebus all day, or an AZ post that Im interested in reading only to realize it said absolutely nothing of merit, it makes me wonder. Of course this last part is just my 2 cents ( well I guess the whole thing is) but I really think URC has to think this through instead of a LOL discussion in some secret room.

 

[DeLux]

I want to agree with most of the things you said. Especially on the transparency thing, if it were up to me I'd have a visible forum to everyone, just only letting members post in it (much like every other legislative body is today). Again, an issue with SWF Policy though. None of the URC are in charge of that. In that regard, I'll do my part and might just start posting my Intellectual Property for the public. I can't do the same for everyone else.

However, your post doesn't address some of things that still bother me.

If his concerns were noble, why not address them in private with us so we wouldn't have to wage a public relations war? Being vocal is one thing. I yell my head off at the URC and am as vocal as it comes. But I do this in the context that I keep the debate of substance and not of character.

There is absolutely no reason to place the video in the public forum outside of advancing an agenda that de-legitimizes the URC to the public.

I'd be receptive to taking the opinion of the top players. Thus why I personally was the one who took the initiative to examine the MK Ban Poll for the high level of play.

The point is, I never got the chance to defend against it before having a video mocking my credibility or even get the chance to amend the ills that he sees. Neither did anyone else.

It is clear to me that the intent is to destroy, not change :\

 

[El Duderino]

After reading through M2K's take, I do have to wonder a few things. Please don't take this to mean I think he is right, I have no idea what goes on behind closed doors, but it does raise a few questions.

1. What was the intention of the Brawl Back Room Rules Committee turning into the Unity Ruleset Committee? From the outside it looks like an attempt to distance itself from the rest of the backroom to make rules independently.​

2. Why should any tournament need to be sticked? It shows favoritism and is unfair to all types of Tournament Organizers.​

3. Why are these decisions comming from the URC and not the Brawl Backroom? If a sub-committee has the power to sidestep the body of knowledgeable players in the backroom and say they are in charge, what purpose does the backroom have? The URC should have to make its case to the BBR and not the other way around.​

I really could care less about the street cred of the URC members, it is everything else that leaves me a little concerned.

 

[Cassio]

There is absolutely no reason to place the video in the public forum outside of advancing an agenda that de-legitimizes the URC to the public.

Rather, its probably a lack of faith in the ability of the URC to fix its own problems. I mean, thats not a bad guess if "fixing the problem" entails replacing some of its members. Thats pretty much the way you fix that sort of problem.

If you have an issue with the whole policy things on stickies, then you have an issue with the staff of the site, not the URC. And if you think that is really a method of executive authority on the URC's part, it's absolutely laughable. But honestly, you should be questioning the staff policy and not the credibility of the URC if that's your angle.

Regardless, your argument shouldn't be an attack on the credibility of the TO's in the URC. Doing that is a slap in the face to all the TO's and the community as a whole in the event THEY execute using the URS.

This is why I've been personally insulted by these warrantless attacks. They are at best misdirected and at worst specious AND spiteful.

If you don't like the decisions, you either have an issue with EVERY TO in the country OR you have an issue with site policy. The community is what ultimately gives us our "authority", and your actions indicate to me that you've really lost site of that fact. And I'm not talking about it on a personal level, "do you know this player" and all the other things that matter. The true credibility lies in what rules are being used, not why.

I feel like one of the possibilities you missed is that maybe he likes the idea of the URC, just not its current membership as BAM said.

I feel like youre also missing that TO's maybe arent using the URS because it is good, but because they agree with the concept of a URS. In that case a possible solution is replacing the URC with members who can make better rules, depending on where the issue is thought to be.

Considering Mike is both in the URC and a TO that uses the URS these both seem like strong possibilities. Although I cant speak for anyone myself.

 

[KiraFlax]

The question isnt if they are dumb in there or not. I know they are smart people. We could argue that they may be bias. Either way they made the decisions they made based on what logically made sense to them in their opinion. The big thing is we shouldnt just let a small select few do the deciding. Just like people of America vote for the laws they want passed thats what we should be doing here. makes more sense for everyone in this world of brawl to vote, or have a large amount or have a large amount of representitives to put thier vote in. 17 people aint gunna cut it. all of us getting pissed off and making this thread is alredy proof.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Kiraflax: in the last two years every public poll has come out in favor of the ban, including the most recent one by a 75-25 margin (it was also about a 73-27 margin on AiB). Your "everyone should vote" thing has already happened. Making this thread is not proof of anything. 75-25 so of course some people are going to be unhappy. I've seen a lot more support then dissent, and the people who are dissenting now are going to be really, really loud about it, and I'm sure some will even try to band together and get a few TOs to pledge not to ban MK (I don't think it will last very long though). MK's usage rate has been increasing all the time, most recently to almost 19% of all players - so I would definitely expect some of these people to be unhappy.

1. What was the intention of the Brawl Back Room Rules Committee turning into the Unity Ruleset Committee? From the outside it looks like an attempt to distance itself from the rest of the backroom to make rules independently.
2. Why should any tournament need to be sticked? It shows favoritism and is unfair to all types of Tournament Organizers.
3. Why are these decisions comming from the URC and not the Brawl Backroom? If a sub-committee has the power to sidestep the body of knowledgeable players in the backroom and say they are in charge, what purpose does the backroom have? The URC should have to make its case to the BBR and not the other way around.

1. From the get-go neither group really supported being related to each other. It was an administrative decision at the time, and as things continued to evolve and the originally idea of collaboration didn't really take hold it made sense to remove any relation (since the relation was really in name only). This isn't saying no collaboration took place.
2. Tournaments are stuck on every website (this in itself isn't a reason for anything but I digress). It shows what the larger tournaments are, the more important tournaments, or just tournaments that could be highlighted for whatever reason (charity events). Stickies are also a natural advertising tool for a website: why not use them? The number of stickies have always been limited on Smashboards so that tournaments can naturally still stick out on the first view of the tournament listings page (aka popular tournaments float to the top and are just as noticeable as any sticky since the entire first page isn't only stickies).
3. The URC is made up of tournament hosts running a ruleset, and they agree to run that ruleset as members of the committee (with a few exceptions for 'experimental' tournaments that require approval). The BBR is not, as such it would have had no way to actually implement a ban since no members have to use the ruleset nor does a TO who is part of the BBR actually pledge to support and ban MK if that is how the vote turns out. The BBR is a knowledgable bodies of players/TOs/theorists and they were consulted before the decision was made (the collaboration I mentioned earlier) and many of the opinions there were taken into account. In addition, previous BBR poll results on banning MK came out in favor of the ban.

 

[M@v]

Since I'm not in the bbr, why wasn't he banned then if there was a majority? Or did you guys require a super majority?

 

[AlphaZealot]

Correct, there was a required super majority.

 

[El Duderino]

1. From the get-go neither group really supported being related to each other. It was an administrative decision at the time, and as things continued to evolve and the originally idea of collaboration didn't really take hold it made sense to remove any relation (since the relation was really in name only). This isn't saying no collaboration took place.

I completely understand the two wanting to distance themselves. I guess I am just more interested in how it ever got to the point. What circumstances changed that made a split necessary now, as opposed to how the backrooms have always operated for years across multiple games?

2. Tournaments are stuck on every website (this in itself isn't a reason for anything but I digress). It shows what the larger tournaments are, the more important tournaments, or just tournaments that could be highlighted for whatever reason (charity events). Stickies are also a natural advertising tool for a website: why not use them? The number of stickies have always been limited on Smashboards so that tournaments can naturally still stick out on the first view of the tournament listings page (aka popular tournaments float to the top and are just as noticeable as any sticky since the entire first page isn't only stickies).

The larger tournaments will naturally be higher on their own. The more "important tournaments", that is completely subjective. Like I said, it shows favoritism. It would be like the Brawl Codeset forum sticking a particular Mod. Yes they have done so in the past, but for the sake of giving everything equal opportunity it was a good thing to take down.

I'm not saying stickies don't have a purpose, just that this is not the right use for them.

3. The URC is made up of tournament hosts running a ruleset, and they agree to run that ruleset as members of the committee (with a few exceptions for 'experimental' tournaments that require approval). The BBR is not, as such it would have had no way to actually implement a ban since no members have to use the ruleset nor does a TO who is part of the BBR actually pledge to support and ban MK if that is how the vote turns out. The BBR is a knowledgable bodies of players/TOs/theorists and they were consulted before the decision was made (the collaboration I mentioned earlier) and many of the opinions there were taken into account. In addition, previous BBR poll results on banning MK came out in favor of the ban.

I understand all that. What I don't get is why there is no Brawl Backroom community equivalent of this. The Unity Ruleset is exactly what you say it is. A ruleset put together by a number of TOs using their own judgement and suggestions. It is not to be confused with a backroom recommended ruleset, and therefore should be treated like one. (not saying a BBR ruleset tournament should be given favoritism either)

It's clear to me, a lot of debating still needs to be done. To give an analogy, the subcommittee has come to an agreement, but a decision has yet to be reached on the congress floor. Until then, the URC's rule set is an alternative people can follow, but it is by no means a replacement. The difficult thing now of course, is getting the URC to come to terms with this reality after being granted the privilege of making the rules.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I completely understand the two wanting to distance themselves. I guess I am just more interested in how it ever got to the point. What circumstances changed that made a split necessary now, as opposed to how the backrooms have always operated for years across multiple games?

Actually the splitting of the room sorta began as a cleaning house thing in the Senate about a month ago. Basically it was a separate issue. There will be some other forum revamps and adjustments made in the coming weeks as well without giving to much away (not related to the URC). There wasn't really a trigger other than: it is something all parties had wanted for awhile and it just came around to finally happen.

The larger tournaments will naturally be higher on their own. The more "important tournaments", that is completely subjective. Like I said, it shows favoritism. It would be like the Brawl Codeset forum sticking a particular Mod. Yes they have done so in the past, but for the sake of giving everything equal opportunity it was a good thing to take down.

I'm not saying stickies don't have a purpose, just that this is not the right use for them.

The purpose of a sticky is subjective and is ultimately whatever the staff says/wants. There really isn't any point in discussing this further - just because you deem something as not a valid reason doesn't make it so or really change anything. There have been stickies I have disagreed with in the past in multiple parts of Smashboards but ultimately it is just my opinion: and it is a minor thing at that. If a thread (or tournament) really deserves merit it will get it regardless of whether it is stuck or not.

I understand all that. What I don't get is why there is no Brawl Backroom community equivalent of this. The Unity Ruleset is exactly what you say it is. A ruleset put together by a number of TOs using their own judgement and suggestions. It is not to be confused with a backroom recommended ruleset, and therefore should be treated like one. (not saying a BBR ruleset tournament should be given favoritism either)

It's clear to me, a lot of debating still needs to be done. To give an analogy, the subcommittee has come to an agreement, but a decision has yet to be reached on the congress floor. Until then, the URC's rule set is an alternative people can follow, but it is by no means a replacement.

The Unity Ruleset is the official Smashboards ruleset for Brawl. The "recommended" ruleset serves an entirely different function, it is saying "we have no power to do anything because we do not run tournaments, but if we did this is what it would look like". The two cannot exist for the same game as it is self-defeating, if Melee ever had a group of TO's unite to become the official ruleset, then the "recommended" ruleset would go away.

Here is the key difference: when there was a BBR Recommended Ruleset, it was used by...almost no one. The Unity Ruleset has been used at tons and tons of tournaments since it's release, including in some weekends upwards of 90% of tournaments. There is no more BBR Recommended Ruleset, and there will not be again.

The BBR-RC was never meant to be a 'subcommittee' of the BBR (which further is why it makes sense to separate the rooms in name), it was more of a separate house. However, even THAT would be wrong. There isn't a government, the BBR has no control over tournaments, never has, and that was its huge flaw when it came to rule making (no way to enforce or actually to even use them). The URC does have control over tournaments since the room is for ONLY TO's and those TO's implement the ruleset.

 

[El Duderino]

It all comes down to what individual TO's choose to do. Ultimately they are the people hosting events and can do whatever they want. All the URC can do is provide a recomended ruleset. But I'm sorry, I simply cannot agree with giving special privileges to tournaments that follow one ruleset over another. It undermines the hard work someone else is putting in to run their non-URC tournament. They too are contributing to the growth of the community and therefore should not be treated any lesser.

You are not going to change my mind here so there is really nothing left to talk about.

 

[Krystedez]

But I'm sorry, I simply cannot agree with giving special privileges to tournaments that follow one ruleset over another.
You are not going to change my mind here so there is really nothing left to talk about.

Go run your own tournament, NON-URS, and hype it up /sticky it on your own boards.

Oh wait.



Basically, if the owner of SWF says URC is its baby, and URC is like ALL TOS ACCEPTING MY SUPER SPECIAL AWESOME RULESET ARE ALLOWED TO BE STICKIED, and SWF's owner doesn't mind or even encourages it, what makes you think your opinion makes any difference being posted here?

Go yell at the support threads or something. I think they have authority to address this kind of thing. And you can't be mad about it if they ignore your plea, because it IS their forums.

 

[El Duderino]

Please, don't take this to mean I'm mad, just concerned. That is what this whole thread is about, addressing the concerns people have about the URC and how it relates to the Brawl community as a whole. Believe it or not, it is a healthy topic for the community to have. Suggesting that I, or anyone that finds any of this questionable, should just shut up because it will never make a difference is the absolute wrong message to send. I'm sure AlphaZealot, despite our difference of opinion here, also would oppose the notion that SWF and the URC rule set operate under "my forum, my rules". Sure, he can use his position to influence the direction, but that does not make this a dictatorship.

 

[Reizilla]

L


















10Ls

 

[Tesh]

Make 12 alt accounts.

Post in your tournament's thread every hour and it will stay near the top.

Or run a melee event and put brawl as a side event.

 

[Katakiri]

If you don't abstain from voting you have a bias. Don't feed me BS about the URC being biased because of their mains. Meta Knight is one of 40 characters in the game. "Boohoo the URC has character diversity" A LOT of the top players gained their status because they use MK or practice the MK Match-up religiously so of course they would want MK to stay legal. If I learned anything from watching & playing top players it's that a lot of them can't deal with good "obscure" characters. I can tell you from my own experiences and with confidence that VERY few Snakes know how to play the Ivysaur Match-up even though it's a 50-50 (or 45-55) MU. MK, no problem, but throw a Donkey Kong in front of MikeHaze and watch the hilarity ensue. MK was a big enough factor in tourneys that you would never even have to practice low-mid tier MUs as they'd all drown in pools from them all having a bad MK MU. Now you have to learn how to play the rest of the game! Mario, Luigi, Pit, & ROB have generally good Match-ups all around but garbage MUs against Meta Knight. Even Jigglypuff has even MUs against most Top Tiers minus Marth, but has an absolute **** MU against MK.

So much weight was put on a characters tier placing just because of their MK MU. I want to see this new metagame grow & evolve. Anyone that has any desire to balance this game would at least want to the results of an MK-less game. Then decide where to go from there.

Oh and TOs make the tourneys. Don't be a ******* and act like they mean any less to the community than the top players because they mean more by far. Unless you want everyone to stick to playing Wifi of course. If all the TOs decided to ban Snake & Diddy too, tough ****, you would have to deal with it or just stop playing the game. Again, TOs mean more by far. They could make the game better or they could ruin it. We tolerated MK for this long, the least you could do is stop *****ing and give it a chance. Good Lord.

 

[Reizilla]

If you don't abstain from voting you have a bias. Don't feed me BS about the URC being biased because of their mains. Meta Knight is one of 40 characters in the game. "Boohoo the URC has character diversity" A LOT of the top players gained their status because they use MK or practice the MK Match-up religiously so of course they would want MK to stay legal. If I learned anything from watching & playing top players it's that a lot of them can't deal with good "obscure" characters. I can tell you from my own experiences and with confidence that VERY few Snakes know how to play the Ivysaur Match-up even though it's a 50-50 (or 45-55) MU. MK, no problem, but throw a Donkey Kong in front of MikeHaze and watch the hilarity ensue. MK was a big enough factor in tourneys that you would never even have to practice low-mid tier MUs as they'd all drown in pools from them all having a bad MK MU. Now you have to learn how to play the rest of the game! Mario, Luigi, Pit, & ROB have generally good Match-ups all around but garbage MUs against Meta Knight. Even Jigglypuff has even MUs against most Top Tiers minus Marth, but has an absolute **** MU against MK.

So much weight was put on a characters tier placing just because of their MK MU. I want to see this new metagame grow & evolve. Anyone that has any desire to balance this game would at least want to the results of an MK-less game. Then decide where to go from there.

Oh and TOs make the tourneys. Don't be a ******* and act like they mean any less to the community than the top players because they mean more by far. Unless you want everyone to stick to playing Wifi of course. If all the TOs decided to ban Snake & Diddy too, tough ****, you would have to deal with it or just stop playing the game. Again, TOs mean more by far. They could make the game better or they could ruin it. We tolerated MK for this long, the least you could do is stop *****ing and give it a chance. Good Lord.

 

[Mike2]

if you don't abstain from voting you have a bias. Don't feed me bs about the urc being biased because of their mains. Meta knight is one of 40 characters in the game. "boohoo the urc has character diversity" a lot of the top players gained their status because they use mk or practice the mk match-up religiously so of course they would want mk to stay legal. If i learned anything from watching & playing top players it's that a lot of them can't deal with good "obscure" characters. I can tell you from my own experiences and with confidence that very few snakes know how to play the ivysaur match-up even though it's a 50-50 (or 45-55) mu. Mk, no problem, but throw a donkey kong in front of mikehaze and watch the hilarity ensue. Mk was a big enough factor in tourneys that you would never even have to practice low-mid tier mus as they'd all drown in pools from them all having a bad mk mu. Now you have to learn how to play the rest of the game! Mario, luigi, pit, & rob have generally good match-ups all around but garbage mus against meta knight. Even jigglypuff has even mus against most top tiers minus marth, but has an absolute **** mu against mk.

So much weight was put on a characters tier placing just because of their mk mu. I want to see this new metagame grow & evolve. Anyone that has any desire to balance this game would at least want to the results of an mk-less game. Then decide where to go from there.

Oh and tos make the tourneys. Don't be a ******* and act like they mean any less to the community than the top players because they mean more by far. Unless you want everyone to stick to playing wifi of course. If all the tos decided to ban snake & diddy too, tough ****, you would have to deal with it or just stop playing the game. Again, tos mean more by far. They could make the game better or they could ruin it. We tolerated mk for this long, the least you could do is stop *****ing and give it a chance. Good lord.

+ 1

 

[Ripple]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKgTv_SzlQg

gimpyfish speaks

 

[Xubble]

If you don't abstain from voting you have a bias. Don't feed me BS about the URC being biased because of their mains. Meta Knight is one of 40 characters in the game. "Boohoo the URC has character diversity" A LOT of the top players gained their status because they use MK or practice the MK Match-up religiously so of course they would want MK to stay legal. If I learned anything from watching & playing top players it's that a lot of them can't deal with good "obscure" characters. I can tell you from my own experiences and with confidence that VERY few Snakes know how to play the Ivysaur Match-up even though it's a 50-50 (or 45-55) MU. MK, no problem, but throw a Donkey Kong in front of MikeHaze and watch the hilarity ensue. MK was a big enough factor in tourneys that you would never even have to practice low-mid tier MUs as they'd all drown in pools from them all having a bad MK MU. Now you have to learn how to play the rest of the game! Mario, Luigi, Pit, & ROB have generally good Match-ups all around but garbage MUs against Meta Knight. Even Jigglypuff has even MUs against most Top Tiers minus Marth, but has an absolute **** MU against MK.

So much weight was put on a characters tier placing just because of their MK MU. I want to see this new metagame grow & evolve. Anyone that has any desire to balance this game would at least want to the results of an MK-less game. Then decide where to go from there.

Oh and TOs make the tourneys. Don't be a ******* and act like they mean any less to the community than the top players because they mean more by far. Unless you want everyone to stick to playing Wifi of course. If all the TOs decided to ban Snake & Diddy too, tough ****, you would have to deal with it or just stop playing the game. Again, TOs mean more by far. They could make the game better or they could ruin it. We tolerated MK for this long, the least you could do is stop *****ing and give it a chance. Good Lord.

You're my new favorite.

 

[Tesh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKgTv_SzlQg

gimpyfish speaks

well gawsh gimpyfish, I tried to run a tournament with my own ruleset and the URC threatened to kill my family!

Its so dumb that now that one organization tries to ban MK, everyone wants to step up and say "omg don't go with the crowd, run things the way you feel bla blah".


@BlazingK, I gotta agree with that last part. MOST of the community compromised (or quit) for the minority and MK has been widely legal for the past 2 years. Now its time for the other 3/4th to try it their way.

MK has been studied and broken down in every way people can think of and he still dominates. Just look at tornado and how its been broken down as far as angling your shield properly, ducking under it, spotdodging half of it, DIing this way and that way to have a chance of getting out, properly spacing a miracle from god from the top to trade hits etc. Does anyone know how to DI out of Sonic's fair and punish him? Anyone give a crap about Pit's jab? Or how to angle your shield against donkey kong's up b? Nope. Nothing else wound up being so overpowered that it had to be studied and drilled to even survive it being spammed.

I support God Tier side events tho.

 

[Johnknight1]

The problem is the majority is pushing around the Meta Knight majority so they can win (also: we're including opinions of people who don't know what a tournament or even a smash fest looks like, but that's a minor issue).

Also in response to that chart of how many times Meta Knight makes it in the money... divide the number of Meta Knights who make it in the money (or in the top 10 to keep it simple) by the Meta Knights who make it in the money (or out of the top 10), and see the results. Do this with every other character, and compare it.

If we get like more than 10 times as much than any other character, then he is (permanently?) ban-worthy. Really, Snake and Diddy Kong's meta game are getting better, and are a lot closer than all the noobs who say "ZOMG! META KNIGHT IS UNBEATABLE!" are to him.

A ton of people hopped on the bandwagon for Meta Knight after Mew2King (who at the time was either the best or the 2nd best Melee player) started dominated with Meta Knight. A similar thing happen with Jigglypuff going from about the middle of the tiers to third (above Marth!) thanks to Mango becoming... well Mango. And as we all know, Mango is as dominate a Melee player as there's ever been!

I want to see what non-Meta Knight tournaments look like, which is why I have proposed temporarily banning him for years just to see the results. I've always been a curious person, which is the only reason why I feel that way. Still, I would like more constructive data that actually means something.

Also, I don't like seeing the URC not keeping records of non-unity ruleset tournaments and ignoring them. Are they tournaments no less=??? Since when did the URC become the all-knowing perfect rule set committee=??? I feel the URC also needs to consult the best players, both Meta Knight and non-Meta Knight players. Ally, Mew2King, ADHD, ... pretty much all the top 10 players in the world should be in involved in the process in some form.

 

[El Duderino]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKgTv_SzlQg

gimpyfish speaks

Too much common sense here. There is that word again, "recommended". Call the URC what you may, it still is only a recommendation. The only real official rule here is one of conduct, that you must respect whatever ground rules the individual tournament organizer goes with.

 

[Cassio]

Summary of BlazingKatakiri's post:

Mk was a big enough factor in tourneys that you would never even have to practice low-mid tier mus as they'd all drown in pools

Don't worry people still wont have to; and they still will.

throw a Donkey Kong in front of MikeHaze and watch the hilarity ensue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv3jQuN-E8E
That was pretty funny.

Does anyone know how to DI out of Sonic's fair and punish him? Anyone give a crap about Pit's jab? Or how to angle your shield against donkey kong's up b? Nope. Nothing else wound up being so overpowered that it had to be studied and drilled to even survive it being spammed.

And people still wont care because those characters are bad .

/offtopic