A solution to Fox's broken CP stages; another one of Grmzo's crazy posts

[Grmo]

I'm going to start doing this at my tournaments because I'm amazing and everyone will agree no matter what

Not really. I'm thinking about this rule as an alternative to how stupid Fox is on Floats/Cruise/Corneria/Green Greens (which I and others in Eastern Canada often ban anyway).

Friends often ask me "why ban such and such a stage?"

"because Fox ***** it. end of story"

"Why not ban fox?"

"that ****s with the metagame"

So I never really had a solution to how stupid places like Poke Floats are. I always CP there and never lose to anyone unless they're much better than me, because Fox is just so broken there that it's nigh unbeatable.

These stages just offer too much of an advantage to Fox to make it at all fair. I main Fox; I know.

So, what do I want to do about this? It's simple. I want to ban Fox from playing on said stages. It might sound silly, but I don't want to hear "well then ban this character from using Brinstar" or something like that, because it's not a valid argument. I simply want to keep these stages while eliminating some crap that tournament players shouldn't have to put up with. I don't necessarily think I'm right. I like posting a lot of crazy, off the top crap just to get feedback from people, because I like hearing what everyone has to think about this stuff.

I know you may be thinking that Fox's counterpick stages have just been taken away from him in this case, but that's really not the case. He's good everywhere, and if anything this will take away stupid, easy solutions to matchup problems and make the players actually think about where they're going to cockslap their opponent next.

If you're against this for whatever reason aside from thinking that Fox isn't too **** on these stages, then ask yourself this: would you rather have those stages open to Fox players to be broken on?

Discuss.

 

[Europhoria]

Fox is broken there (those 3 stages you listed) to a point where he won't lose to anything but another Fox. Jiggs is very beatable on Brinstar by Falcon, Ganon, Fox, etc.
Corneria is generally gay and I'd love it banned. The other stages are fun/balanced CP stages if you don't include Fox and maybe Falco? xD

 

[4Serial]

yeah fox is stupid on corneria lol
i wouldn't really mind banning said stages vs fox
some people will still probably pick them cuz those stages are fun anyways lol
probably like.. if both players are in agreement to not banning them in a set, they can play it or something <_< i dunno
fox still has **** stages like stadium and he doesn't really do bad on many stages anyways.

but if we do this, there's a bunch of other characters we can apply this to as well...
marth on fod, jiggs/peach on mute city/brinstar, falco on fd, etc
so people probably won't do this cuz they're lazy lol

corneria is lame though, i wouldn't mind having it banned

 

[Grmo]

Those stages you listed aren't nearly as broken for respective characters as the others are for Fox. Falco can be countered and is quite fightable by most good characters. Marth is very fightable on FoD. Mute City and Brinstar can be tough, but they're still quite winnable. Fox on Poke Floats? Forget it. I've beaten so many players there that are much better than me...it's really stupid.

 

[Europhoria]

Fox isn't really >_> beatable on those CPs unless by another Fox. Peach is very beatable by many characters on Mute City (Falcon, Fox, Falco, Marth, Jiggs, etc.)

 

[I.B]

*Agrees with this*

Keep it up Grmzo

 

[TyrantWolf]

vids or it never happened

LOL

Fox is too good on CP stages, too gay.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Lol @ the thought of banning even more things.

The Smash community is so silly.

 

[Blunted_object10]

I'm gonna have to disagree on this one.. (Grmzo and I are talking about it on msn)

 

[KosukeKGA]

You should.

Maybe instead of banning something from the game, the metagame as a whole should change.

 

[TyrantWolf]

Lets not conform to the way of the texans. I'm talking about Brawl Texas. Melee Texas is gay too, but their gay in a "in your ***" way.


<333


I don't like this btw, I don't like the idea of setting a certain clause to a character like this. Stalling is one thing, but this is something else. Learn the way of the warrior people, its the only way!

 

[Grmo]

haha, nahh. I don't think the metagame can just "change" like that, especially not so conveniently as to make Fox not broken on some stages.

Also Adnan, I don't see anything wrong with setting a certain clause to a character. It's been done before. Wobbling is often banned, for example, and if people want that banned, Fox on Poke Floats DEFINITELY needs to be banned.

but yeah, warrior is good

 

[SpongeBathBill]

Ah, um.

This is an extremely basic question, but could you perhaps briefly explain WHY Fox has such an advantage on these stages? (I seriously can't think why! :O)

 

[B0mbe1c]

Maybe it's because of his shine?

No need to go banning characters from certain stages. Just suck it up and move on in life.

 

[Grmo]

Ah, um.

This is an extremely basic question, but could you perhaps briefly explain WHY Fox has such an advantage on these stages? (I seriously can't think why! :O)

sure.

Green Greens: As you know, Fox has immensely powerful vertical killing ability. This stage has such a low ceiling that it makes it almost too easy for Fox to kill off the top. Marth, for example, can die as early as 70% simply from a uthrow to uair combo. The platforms do nothing but help his combos, and set him up for even lower kills by placing him closer towards the ceiling. Because of his speed, he's able to run away behind the blocks and laser camp very easily, and he's difficult to approach here. Finally, he has four walls available most of the time to do infinites on. Because of all this, he is given a clearly unfair advantage. TBH This stage should be banned anyway because of the bombs.

Corneria: A wide space to laser camp, especially under the wing. Combined with this speed, he is given so much opportunity to run away and laser, and approaching with a lot of people is really, unreasonably difficult. He has a very low ceiling to work with, and people can die at ridiculous percentages at the top of the wing. I'd like to ban this stage in general, actually.

Rainbow Cruise: Once again, a wide space to move around and shoot lasers, making approaching unreasonably hard for a lot of characters. Right off the bat, he has a wall to do infinites and drillshine combos on, as well as easy shinespike gimps during the second phase of the level. During the ascension stage, uthrow uair gimps can happen absurdly easily, because of the high platforms, if anyone is up there. While on the top area, vertical killing is once again simply too easy. The ceiling is so ridiculously low. I know you could argue here that you should just not get grabbed or SDI, but it's not always that easy, and it's definitely not fair to have to wager a stock on something like that when the Fox has no such dangers.

Poke Floats: Personally my favourite stage in the game. It's incredibly fun, yes, but think about this: right off the bat, he has space to laser camp. Shinespikes off of Squirtle are all but too effective. Throughout 95% of this stage, there is an unreasonably low ceiling, presenting most non-fox characters with an unfair threat of having to wager their stocks on "don't get grabbed". I mean, yes, the same is often true with the Ice Climbers, but getting grabs with them is a LOT harder than it is with Fox. Grabbing with Fox is stupidly easy. There are many cases where you can die under 20% from a uthrow uair, like on top of psyduck or chikorita when they're up high. During the Weezing/Slowpoke phase, Fox's speed allows him to run away easily once he has a lead and laser camp, making it stupidly difficult to get near him without putting yourself at a disadvantage. Shinespikes off the right side here often mean death, at any percent, because of how the stage moves to the right, so it's easy to get caught under. Snorlax is no exception, for example. In fact, there are literally no places in this whole stage where one can grab the edge, making ledgeguarding for Fox EXTREMELY easy, such as Wobbuffet, Unown, or any others. On Sudowoodo, vertical gimps are very easy if they can keep their opponent up there. I remember one time, during a tournament match, I was able to trap a Peach on the top with a waveshine wall infinite, then back throw at the last second and they died. That's a stock they shouldn't have had to lose just because they got hit and I was able to do something that anyone of any skill level can do. Sudowoodo, Venusaur, Squirtle, and Geodude offer walls for infinites. Meanwhile, a low ceiling everywhere means that he can kill whenever he wants so long as his opponent is over what, 60-70%? Finally, he has almost walk-off edges on Psyduck's head off to the left, Onyx off to the right once Squirtle goes away, and Slowpoke off to the right once Wooper appears, meaning EVEN MORE GIMPS AND EASY KILLS FOR FOX YAY

Anyway, I hope this explains why Fox is stupidly broken to the point of no defeat on these stages.

Maybe it's because of his shine?

No need to go banning characters from certain stages. Just suck it up and move on in life.

I think you've misunderstood. I'm suggesting banning one character from four stages, one of which I'm suggesting should be banned regardless of anything. I'm not implying that we should start banning characters from certain stages as a generality, and I think it's quite clear why Fox needs to be limited in this area for the sake of game balance. For reference as to why, see earlier in this post. Anyway, you can't just say there's no need and not argue it, because it's not like it makes my statement that there is a need invalid. "Suck it up" makes it sound like I'm whining, which I'm really not. I told you, I main Fox, so it's not like banning these stages would do me good personally, aside from the fact that I don't think Fox players need these stages to win if they are ACTUALLY better than their opponents. Finally, what does "move on in life" mean? Does it mean stop playing? Seriously dude, argue your points. When you just offer blank statements like that, especially when you say "because of his shine" (which is implicit that you don't know enough about the topic, because that's not the case (again, refer to earlier in this post)), you just waste time.

 

[Lawrencelot]

Just ban those stages. Where I come from, of these stages only Rainbow Ride is a counterpick, but it's also often banned. 4 normal stages and 2-4 counterpicks is enough

 

[TheManaLord]

*pops in*

i 3 stocked grmo on poke floats in fox ditto

*pops out*







*pops back in*

stop messing with this game grmo! it's been like 7 years its fine how it is!!! xD

*pops back out*

 

[Grmo]

Just ban those stages. Where I come from, of these stages only Rainbow Ride is a counterpick, but it's also often banned. 4 normal stages and 2-4 counterpicks is enough

That's a good point. I've thought of that too, but I'm trying to find ways to keep these open as well, because they seem a lot more valid once you take away Fox and Falco. Although, They're stupid for ICs and good for Peach sometimes and etc. TBH I'm probably going to start banning them at my tournaments anyway.

*pops in*

i 3 stocked grmo on poke floats in fox ditto

*pops out*



*pops back in*

stop messing with this game grmo! it's been like 7 years its fine how it is!!! xD

*pops back out*

LOL

Yeah I remember that. I got ***** that set. It's funny how the only match I won on was Dreamland then I got ***** on the stages I thought I was good on

Anyway...I like messing with the game lol

 

[4% APR]

you're crazy, there's nothing broken about fox on poke floats, especially camping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ8l-XQQ1Yg&feature=channel_page

 

[Artery_Clogger]

I've thought that Green Greens and Corneria should just be banned in general for a while now. As for banning Fox on certain stages, it seems kind of inconsistent with the the rest of the current rules.

 

[Grmo]

you're crazy, there's nothing broken about fox on poke floats, especially camping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ8l-XQQ1Yg&feature=channel_page

LOLLLLLL

I've thought that Green Greens and Corneria should just be banned in general for a while now. As for banning Fox on certain stages, it seems kind of inconsistent with the the rest of the current rules.

Inconsistent doesn't mean bad. Exceptions are sometimes made for things, like when people ban wobbling.

 

[TheManaLord]

GG and corneria should be banned for sure.

 

[Grmo]

Yeah. I'm somewhat open to Cruise and Floats, although they're like my favourite stages so I'm definitely biased. However, Fox + Floats is so stupid lol

Poke Floats: Personally my favourite stage in the game. It's incredibly fun, yes, but think about this: right off the bat, he has space to laser camp. Shinespikes off of Squirtle are all but too effective. Throughout 95% of this stage, there is an unreasonably low ceiling, presenting most non-fox characters with an unfair threat of having to wager their stocks on "don't get grabbed". I mean, yes, the same is often true with the Ice Climbers, but getting grabs with them is a LOT harder than it is with Fox. Grabbing with Fox is stupidly easy. There are many cases where you can die under 20% from a uthrow uair, like on top of psyduck or chikorita when they're up high. During the Weezing/Slowpoke phase, Fox's speed allows him to run away easily once he has a lead and laser camp, making it stupidly difficult to get near him without putting yourself at a disadvantage. Shinespikes off the right side here often mean death, at any percent, because of how the stage moves to the right, so it's easy to get caught under. Snorlax is no exception, for example. In fact, there are literally no places in this whole stage where one can grab the edge, making ledgeguarding for Fox EXTREMELY easy, such as Wobbuffet, Unown, or any others. On Sudowoodo, vertical gimps are very easy if they can keep their opponent up there. I remember one time, during a tournament match, I was able to trap a Peach on the top with a waveshine wall infinite, then back throw at the last second and they died. That's a stock they shouldn't have had to lose just because they got hit and I was able to do something that anyone of any skill level can do. Sudowoodo, Venusaur, Squirtle, and Geodude offer walls for infinites. Meanwhile, a low ceiling everywhere means that he can kill whenever he wants so long as his opponent is over what, 60-70%? Finally, he has almost walk-off edges on Psyduck's head off to the left, Onyx off to the right once Squirtle goes away, and Slowpoke off to the right once Wooper appears, meaning EVEN MORE GIMPS AND EASY KILLS FOR FOX YAY

 

[TheManaLord]

Cruise and Floats are also my favorite stages, and I'm a falcon main. I was very tempted to stay falcon v you on poke floats but v fox it's hard. Fox does not have an absolute advantage over every character on the stage, he can def be beat. It's just hard. But isn't it always? It's always a ***** to beat fox. it's fox.

But green greens and corneria are gay for LOTS of characters lol.

 

[Grmo]

haaaaaaaags

Yeah you're right. Although I think the reason you beat me on those stages is just that you're a lot better than me

 

[BEHR]

Poke Floats is Boss.

 

[philbobjoe]

Ness is way gayer on Corneria.

 

[Proverbs]

Ness is way gayer on Corneria.

I have no idea what you're talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daoLcPGxeyA

 

[Miggz]

Ness is way gayer on Corneria.

Funny.

I can't imagine Ness being gay on any level.

No offense Ness. ^^;

 

[Oracle]

Lets not conform to the way of the texans. I'm talking about Brawl Texas. Melee Texas is gay too, but their gay in a "in your ***" way.


<333

I know right? But W/e I'm stuck here

 

[TheManaLord]

Ness is 100% THE GAYEST

 

[theONEjanitor]

if you're better than your opponent, you should win the set on YOUR COUNTERPICK anyway.

 

[Lib3r4t3]

Corneria and Green Greens should be banned for sure.

Why are some saying Pokefloats, and especially Rainbow cruise should be banned though?

Sorry, kinda taking your thread and going a bit off topic.

As far as your idea, idk, I don't really like it. Fox isn't as hard for me though as some other characters, so I'm not worried about him as much.

 

[Grmo]

if you're better than your opponent, you should win the set on YOUR COUNTERPICK anyway.

If you're better than your opponent, you shouldn't need Poke Floats lol.

Corneria and Green Greens should be banned for sure.

Why are some saying Pokefloats, and especially Rainbow cruise should be banned though?

Sorry, kinda taking your thread and going a bit off topic.

As far as your idea, idk, I don't really like it. Fox isn't as hard for me though as some other characters, so I'm not worried about him as much.

We're saying that because Fox has so many opportunities for gimps and infinites. There are easy shinespike places, walkoff edges, absurdly low ceilings, and so much room for Fox's speed to make him untouchable whenever he chooses to laser camp. These are often reasons that other stages are banned.

 

[Stev]

Pokefloats should only be played the way isai and Silent Spectre play it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odnzpwhtATs

 

[Rubyiris]

I love Pokefloats so much. <3

<-- Fox secondary. :3

 

[jugfingers]

I think the only stages that should be used in tournament are dreamland and final destination like in japan.

Who's with me!??....

 

[Proverbs]

If I recall correctly, that's not at all how things work in Japan...

 

[Metà]

No, I'm pretty sure he's right. I mean, just look at any tournament videos from Japan in the last 2 or 3 years.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

wouldnt that mean that say, a captain falcon player could cp poke floats and force a fox mainer to stop playing fox?