A second look at Sheiks meta game.

[saviorslegacy]

Chok got me thinking on April first. "Maybe we are actually overlooking Sheiks true potential."

She is so fast and has so many options I'm sure that if we put our heads together we can come up with something. Now lets take a look at the current Sheik meta game:

#1 Needles Needles
Use your needles at far away foes.

#2 SPACING!!!!
I see a LOT of Sheiks space with the Airials.

#3 DACUS
I think DACUS is a very important part of Sheik since it has almost ZERO risk unless they greet you with a projectile.

#4 Combo what you can.
If you use Sheik and don't try to string your attacks then you are an idiot. -_-

#5 F-tilt Lock
nough said

#6 Chain
I hardly ever see a chain used. The chain is really good and under used.

#7 Killing with Vanish
Some Sheiks try and be flashy with thier Vanish glides and Vanish mind games. *Thumb up to you all*

#8 CRAZY GIMPING!!!
Not every Sheik loves to gimp, but I for one LOVE IT! She has so many options and a tether+normal Up B.

#9 Grab Game
She has a good grab game. *nough said* All Sheiks should grab.



Now here is what I am asking. Can we mess with our spacing, DACUS, Chain, gimps and other stuff?

ie When should we Chain a person? At what percent should we chain?

Light showed me a trick the other day on wi-fi.
Run> short hop> needles (reversinf you)> cancel needles> Bair
It looked pretty cool. It also looked effective.... and was effective.
Should we mix this up with d-tilt spacing and Narituka Step (or whatever it is called -_-).

Gimping.. the topic never talked about but done by many. Is there a standered to gimping?
I always do the little run off the edge and Fair trick. It is ver effective on people going for that ledge. I also juggle with Bair and chain hog (if you will).

Lets take a second look at those needles. What do they do:
They are fast.
They act like a chain saw thus keeping a person in hit stun for a little while.
The can be charged for a total of 18%.
They are thrown straight ahead when on the ground and down at an angle in the air.
They can be used for a glitch at the ledge.
When used early in the jump they turn you around which can be canceled almost instantly.

Now I want you to look at all of those option from ONE move! I say that is quite impressive.

How and when should the Vanish be used? Some say it isn't useful. Well that is because they don't know how to use it. I see people use it. I use it!

"DACUS is to legit"
Maybe that is correct. It is basically a SUPER Phatasm spam. If you DACUS left and right people SOOOOOO lose thier heads. You are so fast, cover so much ground and the fect that it is powerful scares them. I have yet to see someone counter it with something rather than a projectile.
"Should we DACUS spam?"

What about those tricky grab release combo's? They look semi legit. Can we take advantage of those?


Now all that said I have one more question. "What moves should we use to KO?"
I see FSmash as a good one since I rarely use it up close. There are just to many other options than knocking them away. I think it is better as a finisher.
"Saving the Nair?" Good idea East. Since I started I have had a nice finisher over the ledge.
Vanish is probally one of the best finishers. Nice knock back and almost always fresh.


If you put all of this together this is what you will get.

A Sheik that knows how to out space a foe.
A Sheik that can get in close and keep punishment to themselves down because they know when enough is enough.
A Sheik that exploits the chain TRUE destructive power.
A Sheik that never lets anyone get back to the stage.
A Sheik that never lets anyone charge a projectile.
A Sheik that has the foe ALWAYS on edge because they don't know when the DACUS is coming or if they get needles to the face.
A Sheik that mind games the Vanish to perfection.

That is what I see. I DACUS SPAMMING, SUPER GIMPING, NEEDLE THROWING, CHAIN TECHING, NICELY SPACING AND COMBOING SHEIK!!!!!!

I don't know about you... but I would be scared to fight a Sheik like that.

BTW... how should we change our meta game as the foe increases in damage? Hit and run?


Well.. I need a lot of opinions so please give them.

 

[Leafplayer452]

BTW... how should we change our meta game as the foe increases in damage? Hit and run?


Well.. I need a lot of opinions so please give them.

I don't think there is another way to "unleash" Sheik's true potential other than whay you stated here, BUT I think most Sheik's know extra things like the chain's ablitiy and vanish gliding but maybe those people think they don't need to use it and they are doing good without it.

Like me for instance, some guy told me (from playing me on wifi) that I combo well and rank up damage very well and quickly, but I didn't use the chain, don't get me wrong I use the chain, but rarely though I use it rarely cuz.......I don't know how to use it in the correct way, or like how Tristan_Win does or Crossjeremiah. Not to mention people do say I rank up damage very well, which the chain is for, so Im one of those people that think they don't need to use it but they know it.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Chok got me thinking on April first.

*BANGS HEAD AGAINST TABLE*

NO NO NO NO NO.

As I've already said before to you multiple times, I appreciate the effort, but this is largely really obvious and common knowledge or misinformed and silly.

 

[saviorslegacy]

*BANGS HEAD AGAINST TABLE*

NO NO NO NO NO.

As I've already said before to you multiple times, I appreciate the effort, but this is largely really obvious and common knowledge or misinformed and silly.

Stop that... you'll get a head ache.


Why did you say that about "Chok got me think April first"?

This thread is more or less trying to take all of the different Sheik playstyles, merging them and how to play it.

You said yourself about that Europeon Sheik. "If you think that is broken just wait untill he starts to DACUS and use the Chain."
How exactly should he put that into his play style Speed? When should he stop doing what he always does and use something else?

That is what this thread is for.

 

[Zankoku]

Have you ever heard of "intuition?"

 

[Blistering Speed]

Well, you seem genuinely willing this to work and I'm excruciatingly bored, so I'll help by showing you what's wrong.
See above is in reference to a note on the same subject, not the actual note above.

#1 Needles NeedlesUse your needles at far away foes.

Really? Use a projectile when far away?

#2 SPACING!!!!I see a LOT of Sheiks space with the Airials.

I see every character do this, in any smash game.

#3 DACUSI think DACUS is a very important part of Sheik since it has almost ZERO risk unless they greet you with a projectile.

No, it doesn't have zero risk. Chok's post on DACUS camping was a joke you realise.

#4 Combo what you can.If you use Sheik and don't try to string your attacks then you are an idiot. -_-

Like every other character in any fighting game.

#6 ChainI hardly ever see a chain used. The chain is really good and under used.

The one point I agree with.

#7 Killing with VanishSome Sheiks try and be flashy with thier Vanish glides and Vanish mind games. *Thumb up to you all*

Flashy usually doesn't coincide with good. The only real time I see Vanish as your best option is when you're abusing it's invincibility frames in some obscure way.

#9 Grab GameShe has a good grab game. *nough said* All Sheiks should grab.

Sheik's grab game is pretty mediocre. This is Brawl and if you don't have CG/Grab release then you can't do much. F Throw prediction and character specific air release DACUS save it from being bad.

Light showed me a trick the other day on wi-fi.Run> short hop> needles (reversinf you)> cancel needles> BairIt looked pretty cool. It also looked effective.... and was effective.

Known since the day Melee came out.

Should we mix this up with d-tilt spacing and Narituka Step (or whatever it is called -_-).

Erm, why space with D Tilt? And Naritake Step has very isolated use.

Gimping.. the topic never talked about but done by many. Is there a standered to gimping?I always do the little run off the edge and Fair trick. It is ver effective on people going for that ledge. I also juggle with Bair and chain hog (if you will).

Completely character dependant. Read people's posts in matchup discussion and gimping is covered, but for that character.

How and when should the Vanish be used? Some say it isn't useful. Well that is because they don't know how to use it. I see people use it. I use it!

See above.

"DACUS is to legit"Maybe that is correct. It is basically a SUPER Phatasm spam. If you DACUS left and right people SOOOOOO lose thier heads. You are so fast, cover so much ground and the fect that it is powerful scares them. I have yet to see someone counter it with something rather than a projectile.

See above.

"Should we DACUS spam?"What about those tricky grab release combo's? They look semi legit. Can we take advantage of those?

Yeah, DACUS is good for grab release COMBO'S. Because it's a COMBO and it's guaranteed.

I see FSmash as a good one since I rarely use it up close. There are just to many other options than knocking them away. I think it is better as a finisher.

F Smash is Sheik's worst move.

A Sheik that exploits the chain TRUE destructive power.

Cheesy description aside, the one point I agree with.

A Sheik that never lets anyone get back to the stage.

Sheik isn't THAT good a gimper and like the rest of your "goals", they're all really obvious.

A Sheik that mind games the Vanish to perfection.

See above.

That's the last time I help you until you improve.

 

[Crossjeremiah]

dtilt dtilt . ftilt rapid jab ftilt ......

stuff...

(usmash)profit??



lol

i can't believe you didn't even talk about jabbing... for pressure.. what kind of sheik main are you?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Well, you seem genuinely willing this to work and I'm excruciatingly bored, so I'll help by showing you what's wrong.
See above is in reference to a note on the same subject, not the actual note above.Really? Use a projectile when far away?I see every character do this, in any smash game.No, it doesn't have zero risk. Chok's post on DACUS camping was a joke you realise.Like every other character in any fighting game.The one point I agree with.Flashy usually doesn't coincide with good. The only real time I see Vanish as your best option is when you're abusing it's invincibility frames in some obscure way.Sheik's grab game is pretty mediocre. This is Brawl and if you don't have CG/Grab release then you can't do much. F Throw prediction and character specific air release DACUS save it from being bad.Known since the day Melee came out.Erm, why space with D Tilt? And Naritake Step has very isolated use.Completely character dependant. Read people's posts in matchup discussion and gimping is covered, but for that character.See above.See above.Yeah, DACUS is good for grab release COMBO'S. Because it's a COMBO and it's guaranteed.F Smash is Sheik's worst move.
Cheesy description aside, the one point I agree with.
Sheik isn't THAT good a gimper and like the rest of your "goals", they're all really obvious.See above.

That's the last time I help you until you improve.

Besides being a critric couldn't you at least help instead of gripe? Yeah it was obvious... a lot I didn't know untill I watched a lot of vids and read some guides. I haven't seen the needle trick that Light showed me before. Haven't even read on it.
I also noticed that you didn't quote the whole topic.

So why don't you help with the chain? You think it is good right? Is that all you know about it? Is that it is good? When should the chain be used? I have looked at the chain guide. It doesn't say when it should be used except for punishing dodges. I also want to know if it is smart to punish with the chain or use another option.

You are so smart that you knew about all of my faults. How should a Sheik adapt thier playstyle depending on the foes %?

What makes DACUS not legit except from projectiles? (I still need to see someone get punished for using DACUS.)




I have almost had it with SmashBoards. I try to discuss things like this, help people, give my opinion, make a vid for y'alls use to help newbies and you have these little people go around and throw thier weight around like they have something to prove. -_- Maybe if I win a tourney or something people wont be so critical. That might not work cuz they still might want thier kicks. (Sorry for the flame... but this has happened to me many times and I am sick of it.) (Ankoku... if you feel strong enough against this last section please just edit it out and keep the above.)

 

[Crossjeremiah]

fsmash on the side of the stage is not bad.


and you can get punished for DACUS. They can space it into a grab ... or smash attack

 

[saviorslegacy]

dtilt dtilt . ftilt rapid jab ftilt ......

stuff...

(usmash)profit??



lol

i can't believe you didn't even talk about jabbing... for pressure.. what kind of sheik main are you?

If I said that it would have given speed another thing to gripe about. -_-


Uh... cuz every Sheik uses it. I was wanting to get the things that not every Sheik uses and put it into one play style. Then discus when each thing in that play style should be used.

Personally I think she is lower on the tier list because people don't take advantage of all of her options.

 

[saviorslegacy]

fsmash on the side of the stage is not bad.


and you can get punished for DACUS. They can space it into a grab ... or smash attack

A smash attack? How does that work? What do they do... run to where you will appear? If they have the time to do that then you shouldn't use it.

As for the grab counter:
Do you realise the timing for that? A grab counter is almost taboo for Sheik IMO. Maybe Snake (I do it to Snake).. but not Sheik. Which is why I haven't seen it yet.

 

[Zankoku]

I could care less about whether you've had it with Smashboards or not, really. lol

If you think you've offended anybody with that silly little paragraph any more than you already have providing stupid/wrong/old information, you are sadly mistaken. Sheik is a pretty straightforward character. A great deal of learning how to play her well comes from being able to think dynamically. Because, you know, adaptability. It's the difference between good players and morons.

As for things you think are really tricky to figure out...

The chain has a very specific range. Figure it out and you'll know exactly when you should use it (HINT: when you can't be punished for it).
The Vanish works almost exactly the same as it did in Melee. The only two big differences are that it can kill much more effectively and it no longer interrupts into a ledgegrab if going downward like it did in Melee.
If you're doing anything not guaranteed then you're throwing away free damage.
If you're relying on anything that gives your opponent several options then you're putting far more emphasis on a rock-paper-scissors game. If you say that Sheik's grab game is good, you better back that up by being ****ing psychic.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I could care less about whether you've had it with Smashboards or not, really. lol

If you think you've offended anybody with that silly little paragraph any more than you already have providing stupid/wrong/old information, you are sadly mistaken. Sheik is a pretty straightforward character. A great deal of learning how to play her well comes from being able to think dynamically. Because, you know, adaptability. It's the difference between good players and morons.

As for things you think are really tricky to figure out...

The chain has a very specific range. Figure it out and you'll know exactly when you should use it (HINT: when you can't be punished for it).
The Vanish works almost exactly the same as it did in Melee. The only two big differences are that it can kill much more effectively and it no longer interrupts into a ledgegrab if going downward like it did in Melee.
If you're doing anything not guaranteed then you're throwing away free damage.
If you're relying on anything that gives your opponent several options then you're putting far more emphasis on a rock-paper-scissors game. If you say that Sheik's grab game is good, you better back that up by being ****ing psychic.

I said that cuz I was unsure about how people would react.

You are right about the great deal of learning. @_@

I never played Melee in competition. At March 9th all I did was Smash Attacks with Falco. Even then I didn't really get into Smash until the summer. Further more I had no idea that Falco could jump and shoot lasers at the same time until October.
That said... I am knew to Smash and I don't know what they did in Melee. So I have no idea what carried over and is now commen sense. All I know is what is posted here and what I see at YouTube.

Not Psychic... just good deduction.

 

[Crossjeremiah]

chain is god offline. just counter circles with analog stick, your opponent will take a long timeable counter it unless projectiles. sometimes they probably might counter it, but by the time they do, they will be damaged to hell.

 

[<π]

sheik has a good grab but horrible options afterward and really laughable damage from it in general. you should use grab when it is the only option (out of dashes) and on shields/people landing out of dodges, ect.

Dacus, oh my goodness. Dacus is probablly the least important past of building a strong shiek it is effective against people who aren't experinced with it. it has good shock value but spare that and a small handful of grab release set ups you will begin to find it much much less rewarding. In the end it is still an upsmash it retains all of it's afterlag and still has a big start up time.

The key elements of shiek, and this is going to be true with any character in brawl. is not leaving yourself open, Limiting your risks and taking advantage of your opponents mistakes with the best options. Thats where tools like good spacing play the biggest roles.

I still want a chain video, I've had zero success with the chain spare on shields/grounded opponents.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Besides being a critric couldn't you at least help instead of gripe? Yeah it was obvious... a lot I didn't know untill I watched a lot of vids and read some guides. I haven't seen the needle trick that Light showed me before. Haven't even read on it.
I also noticed that you didn't quote the whole topic.

So why don't you help with the chain? You think it is good right? Is that all you know about it? Is that it is good? When should the chain be used? I have looked at the chain guide. It doesn't say when it should be used except for punishing dodges. I also want to know if it is smart to punish with the chain or use another option.

You are so smart that you knew about all of my faults. How should a Sheik adapt thier playstyle depending on the foes %?

What makes DACUS not legit except from projectiles? (I still need to see someone get punished for using DACUS.)




I have almost had it with SmashBoards. I try to discuss things like this, help people, give my opinion, make a vid for y'alls use to help newbies and you have these little people go around and throw thier weight around like they have something to prove. -_- Maybe if I win a tourney or something people wont be so critical. That might not work cuz they still might want thier kicks. (Sorry for the flame... but this has happened to me many times and I am sick of it.) (Ankoku... if you feel strong enough against this last section please just edit it out and keep the above.)

That's the smash community for you know respect for new players and you can get a cup of STFU if you haven't been to a tourney. I say don't be discouraged and keep posting no need to later others dictate your actions so much. I don't think you flamed anyone either....also you didn't know falco could jump and laser?

 

[saviorslegacy]

That's the smash community for you know respect for new players and you can get a cup of STFU if you haven't been to a tourney. I say don't be discouraged and keep posting no need to later others dictate your actions so much. I don't think you flamed anyone either....also you didn't know falco could jump and laser?

Well I might be Co-hosting my first tourney here in a little over a month. I've ran a clan for over a year. I'm not really a n00b.. just someone trying to figure everything out.

I'm still gonna do the Sheik boards combo vid. "IN WHICH I HAVE TO RANT ABOUT!!!!!!" I still have yet to recieve ONE clip. -_-

C (si), I was onto it actually. I was playing a friend when I noticed that I canceled the laser in the air. So I started experimenting and noticed it could be used VERY effectively. I had never seen it before cuz I didn't know any Falco mains. So I jumped onto the board and posted what I thought was my new discovery. To bad I was horribly mistaken. -_- From there I learned every single thing that Falco could do except pivot boost grab and I could use it effectively. I got bored of Falco due to him being so basic that I gave im up. I took on Sheik because she is sooooo complex. I also used to arrow loop with Pit and a few other tricky stuff that the harder characters can do, but they aren't as fun or complex as the Hyrule Rouge. IMO

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Well I might be Co-hosting my first tourney here in a little over a month. I've ran a clan for over a year. I'm not really a n00b.. just someone trying to figure everything out.

I'm still gonna do the Sheik boards combo vid. "IN WHICH I HAVE TO RANT ABOUT!!!!!!" I still have yet to recieve ONE clip. -_-

C (si), I was onto it actually. I was playing a friend when I noticed that I canceled the laser in the air. So I started experimenting and noticed it could be used VERY effectively. I had never seen it before cuz I didn't know any Falco mains. So I jumped onto the board and posted what I thought was my new discovery. To bad I was horribly mistaken. -_- From there I learned every single thing that Falco could do except pivot boost grab and I could use it effectively. I got bored of Falco due to him being so basic that I gave im up. I took on Sheik because she is sooooo complex. I also used to arrow loop with Pit and a few other tricky stuff that the harder characters can do, but they aren't as fun or complex as the Hyrule Rouge. IMO

LoL .

I don't think sheik is that complex TBH there are more characters with a high learning curve. If you consider the ftilt lock it's rather simple IMO. However being able to use her effectively and good is a different story as it with every character. Her ftilt lock is kind of like a chain grab IMO. Once you learn the things you can do out of the ftilt lock its rather simple and just mix up different things. But it's basically rather simple IMO.

 

[rathy Aro]

Speed's post was pretty much right, but he wasn't just trying to be mean to the noob. He was trying to help the thread, which I think can be useful. Other character boards have threads to discuss the advance of the character's metagame, including the DDD boards and DDD hasn't progressed in MANY months. So us having one, I think is a good idea (should not be stickied though).

One thing I think would be useful is to go more in depth each of your (valid) points. Like saying spacing is good, is never helpful for example. You have to say what you space with so with sheik you might add that using ftilt on the ground and bair in the air are good ways to space with sheik or w/e.

This thread should pretty much be dedicated to any new/creative sheik ideas AND discoveries of ATs or rediscoveries of old ATs used more usefully.

to everyone: its situational is never a reason to dismiss something. Successfully pulling off situational techniques are usually really impressive and can set good players apart from the best.

 

[Blistering Speed]

If you're using it for general metagame discussion then it'll be closed like my old one was, the mod's reasoning being that the topic holds the same purpose as the board itself.

 

[Steel]

lol@ DACUS is safe. try it against a competent opponent plz (being that they aren't wide open)

Also Sheik's put too much emphasis on needles imo. Know that when you run away and needle you're most likely giving up advantageous situations, especially if you already have him cornered. it's an anti-camp tool. sheik isn't a camper... she attacks.

also >_> @ the reverse needle cancel into bair. why not just RAR bair? no point.

 

[Flamingo]

DACUS is overrated, and ours has to be the hardest to execute. (Falco and Snake have it easy, and have more useful DACUS's to go along with their movesets, and their dash attacks can actually be cancelled after hit, our frame window to cancel is too tiny.

This guy believes everything he reads. Thanks Chok xD.

@ saviorslegacy: Ummmm. Sheik's strategy is very simple, deal damage with tilt combos, and needles. I agree that her inputs and precision needed for her moves are probably a higher tier compared to other characters. ZSS, Peach, and MK all take a lot of skill to do well with also. I'd put Sheik up in the higher tiers of a "hardest characters to use efficiently" tier list

Anyone agree?

 

[saviorslegacy]

I think the best way to start is to review each persons play style. If anyone here looks wstched YT vids of other Sheiks and tell me they all look the same ten they are lieing. Other characters (D3, IC, MK, Falco, D&W and many others) all look the same to me. I mean... each one is different... but they all fight the same.
Sheik on the other hand looks different to me from different people. Some <3 DACUS... other (Ankoku) do like nothing technical, some adore the ledge (me) and some just f-tilt ***** (lol j/k).
We need to find what works best for each Sheik. Then take all of that and compile it into one play style. That way we know we are maximizing our options.

ie A technical Sheik we like DACUS more and Vanish tactics.

An Ankoku Sheik likes to keep it simple. He likes to get that f-tilt lock in and guard safely from the stage.

A more reckless Sheik like me likes to chase after the foe once they leave the stage.

If we would combine those three you would get a better Sheik.


I know there was a thread made a while ago asking about what makes your Sheik different... but I want to know what makes your Sheik effective.

 

[Crossjeremiah]

my vanish tactics are too beast. like when i was doing them at chu's dojo. neo was had a harder time doing em. but he beat me in the end by 1 stock friendlies xD

only thing dacus is useful for is surprise attacks when your opponent is in the air for that split second and grab release

 

[chainmaillekid]

I think the best way to start is to review each persons play style. If anyone here looks wstched YT vids of other Sheiks and tell me they all look the same ten they are lieing. Other characters (D3, IC, MK, Falco, D&W and many others) all look the same to me. I mean... each one is different... but they all fight the same.
Sheik on the other hand looks different to me from different people. Some <3 DACUS... other (Ankoku) do like nothing technical, some adore the ledge (me) and some just f-tilt ***** (lol j/k).
We need to find what works best for each Sheik. Then take all of that and compile it into one play style. That way we know we are maximizing our options.

ie A technical Sheik we like DACUS more and Vanish tactics.

An Ankoku Sheik likes to keep it simple. He likes to get that f-tilt lock in and guard safely from the stage.

A more reckless Sheik like me likes to chase after the foe once they leave the stage.

If we would combine those three you would get a better Sheik.


I know there was a thread made a while ago asking about what makes your Sheik different... but I want to know what makes your Sheik effective.

Have you seen my videos?

If you know what makes my sheik effective, please tell me


Im actually working on a video series right now... Im just getting started. But I think it should be helpful in sheiks metagame discussion.

 

[Zankoku]

lol, did saviorslegacy actually watch vids at all, or is he basing this **** on how people talk?

 

[Steel]

Just taking a guess...

The latter

 

[chainmaillekid]

He's probably just pulling up examples out of nowhere just to make his point.

You should be analizing the points he is making, not his examples...

 

[saviorslegacy]

He's probably just pulling up examples out of nowhere just to make his point.

You should be analizing the points he is making, not his examples...

Basically....

And I do watch the Sheik vids. Not only do you not play all that technical Ankuko but you also said it yourself.

 

[<π]

I disagree, those characters don't look a like at all, all metas I play have pretty unique play styles actually same with ICs, GaW and Falco... not so sure with D3 but I only get to reallyv see D3 dittos down here.

The main, thing I think, is that people will rinse and repeat with that same base level strat once your opponent works their way around that you have to play differently. I'm sure on other boards people are talking about sheik is all Ftilt, there is so much more to the character than that. But thats irrelevant.

Don't try and fool yourself, sheik is a very straight forward character to play, space well, spam needles. Shiek is not a high tier character, what she has in speed is crushed by lack of a strong finisher , a recovery that is easily punished, and no priority to speak of.
Now don't get me wrong sheik can beat anyone in the game but you have to do some serious out playing to beat just sheer numbers. Like meta you don't have the speed or priority to effectively pressure him ever. mean you have to wait for his errors (Or maybe just pull out chain? still waiting on vids!) In those cases your character attributes really won't help you win your matches, like they would for meta.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Well... time to contribute my part.


I always try and gimp. I have rarely been punished because I have gimped long enough that I can judge if the oponent can punish me or not. If the anwser is yes the I usally run off of the eldge and Fair right as they are about to reach the ledge. If the answer is no then I try too intercept them with a Bair and the tether the ledge. This then sets me up to keep them away with RAR. If I see a ledge hog oppertunity I back flip away from the ledge and tether so that I get a long chain. Then I just wait for them to go to a ledge that they cannot grab. If I can be hit (ie Marth) I try to warp at the right time so I have invincablitiy frames.

Rather than that I do try and Sky Chase (I named it that cuz I was tired of "it's not a tech chase"). Which kinda makes my grab game better.

BTW... just as an input... "WHY DOESN'T ANYONE PUMMEL!?!?!?" I mean people complain about the little damage that she achieves from a grab. Well take a look at my chart below: (not acurate at all... more or less an edjucated guess... but you get the concept)

at 0% a grab can do 9% if thrown in front/dehind of you. 1 pummel

at 30% a grab can do 12% if thrown in front/behind you. 2 pummels

at 50% a grab can do 15% if thrown in front/behind you. 3 pummels

at 75% a grab can do 18% if thrown in front/behind you. 4 pummels

at 100% a grab can do 21% if thrown in front/behind you. 5 pummels

BTW... pummels is like f-tilt lock. Hit it in a rythm like pattern.


I think that is all that makes me semi unique.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I think the best way to start is to review each persons play style. If anyone here looks wstched YT vids of other Sheiks and tell me they all look the same ten they are lieing. Other characters (D3, IC, MK, Falco, D&W and many others) all look the same to me. I mean... each one is different... but they all fight the same.
Sheik on the other hand looks different to me from different people. Some <3 DACUS... other (Ankoku) do like nothing technical, some adore the ledge (me) and some just f-tilt ***** (lol j/k).
We need to find what works best for each Sheik. Then take all of that and compile it into one play style. That way we know we are maximizing our options.

ie A technical Sheik we like DACUS more and Vanish tactics.

An Ankoku Sheik likes to keep it simple. He likes to get that f-tilt lock in and guard safely from the stage.

A more reckless Sheik like me likes to chase after the foe once they leave the stage.

If we would combine those three you would get a better Sheik.


I know there was a thread made a while ago asking about what makes your Sheik different... but I want to know what makes your Sheik effective.

I think that DACUS and vanish tactics is just flash stuff that's not needed. But that's just me and I just picked up sheik so I don't really know. However it does seem like sheik starts and ends with the ftilt lock. If you're not going to ftilt lock with sheik you might as well not play as her. It racks up so much damage and combos into all of her moves I think i could be mistaken. If you think sliding around the screen with DACUS makes sheik good I think you're mistaken. Jab ftilt lock grabs Fair Nair bair. Mix it up toss in a chain and some needles and you're good however, going for vanish kills is flashy and not needed although I like going for them.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I disagree, those characters don't look a like at all, all metas I play have pretty unique play styles actually same with ICs, GaW and Falco... not so sure with D3 but I only get to reallyv see D3 dittos down here.

The main, thing I think, is that people will rinse and repeat with that same base level strat once your opponent works their way around that you have to play differently. I'm sure on other boards people are talking about sheik is all Ftilt, there is so much more to the character than that. But thats irrelevant.

Don't try and fool yourself, sheik is a very straight forward character to play, space well, spam needles. Shiek is not a high tier character, what she has in speed is crushed by lack of a strong finisher , a recovery that is easily punished, and no priority to speak of.
Now don't get me wrong sheik can beat anyone in the game but you have to do some serious out playing to beat just sheer numbers. Like meta you don't have the speed or priority to effectively pressure him ever. mean you have to wait for his errors (Or maybe just pull out chain? still waiting on vids!) In those cases your character attributes really won't help you win your matches, like they would for meta.

Well... every MK I fight does the same thing: Mach Tornado, Shuttle Loop attack and glide attack, Dair spam, Nair ledge Guard, Drill Rush, DSmash spam and d-tilt into DThrow
IC's, just grab spam, seperate into Blizzard and tilts.
I take that back about G&W. They are different.
Falco is just laser spam (and laser spam into other moves), CG, Phantasm spam, DACUS -_-
At least you have a good chance on prediction when it comes to D3. He will either grab, grab, grab, smash, Waddle Dee Toss, grab, tilts, grab and grab. -_- Every time I get close to one they shield grab me. -_-

Then again... people could just say. "Sheik is all f-tilt and needles." However.. we know better. So who am I to judge?


I try and make up for that poor finisher with a good gimp game.

 

[Villi]

Have you ever heard of "intuition?"

It will lead you in the right direction.

 

[Steel]

STOP THE NEEDLEz

 

[Zankoku]

Well... every MK I fight does the same thing: Mach Tornado, Shuttle Loop attack and glide attack, Dair spam, Nair ledge Guard, Drill Rush, DSmash spam and d-tilt into DThrow

Oh ****, you don't say! I mean, I can't believe that all Meta Knights use their two best offensive-based specials, along with abusing their best aerials, and edgeguarding with their great reach and recovery, not to mention going for guaranteed setups like a grab after a dtilt!!!

Man, and all this time I thought that everybody played unique, no matter how stupid it would be to look different for the sake of looking different.

 

[Tristan_win]

You guys need to stop *****ing and develop your sheiks abilities to use such things as the Chain, Ftilt decay into Usmash, DACUS, jab canceling, spacing, and so on.

Seriously, stop your *****ing especially if you haven't really attempted to add everything that is sheik into your gameplay already.

 

[Rawr_]

I think that is all that makes me semi unique.

Just like everybody else.

 

[<π]

STOP THE NEEDLEz

Why? It's an attack that actually can't be punished.

 

[rathy Aro]

DACUS is overrated, and ours has to be the hardest to execute. (Falco and Snake have it easy, and have more useful DACUS's to go along with their movesets, and their dash attacks can actually be cancelled after hit, our frame window to cancel is too tiny.

The difficulty of a tech does not affect its usefulness and out DACUS is more useful than falco's (kills earlier, goes further, and occasionally guaranteed out of GR). Secondly can we stop acting like DACUS is a bad tech that never helps. IF you're good with it you you can easily be getting like 2 kills a set with it and considering how people keep saying sheik can't kill well this is great. So STOP discouraging DACUS (not just to flamingo, but everyone); by doing that you're just limiting yourself.

And I agree with Tristan's last post. This thread is about playing sheik optimally, right? So discouraging staples like the ftilt lock and calling it a style of playing makes no sense. Really we should be focused on developing strategies for chain and DACUS (though the former is pretty straight forward), because those are both underdeveloped aspects of sheik's meta.

edit:

Well... every MK I fight does the same thing: Mach Tornado, Shuttle Loop attack and glide attack, Dair spam, Nair ledge Guard, Drill Rush, DSmash spam and d-tilt into DThrow
IC's, just grab spam, seperate into Blizzard and tilts.
I take that back about G&W. They are different.
Falco is just laser spam (and laser spam into other moves), CG, Phantasm spam, DACUS -_-
At least you have a good chance on prediction when it comes to D3. He will either grab, grab, grab, smash, Waddle Dee Toss, grab, tilts, grab and grab. -_- Every time I get close to one they shield grab me. -_-

Then again... people could just say. "Sheik is all f-tilt and needles." However.. we know better. So who am I to judge?


I try and make up for that poor finisher with a good gimp game.

lolwut
You can some up every character in the game the same way and you named enough of MK's moveset that it doesn't even sound repetitive or simple. And DDD is simple, but still more complex than you suggested.

Sheik pretty much comes down to needles, flilt, and grabs/grab followups to rack damage and switch, upsmash, or aerial offstage to kill. This being relatively simple compared to you summary of MK.

POint being the quoted post is just mad character bias.