Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Actually I would say that you are correct.Woah woah woah.
Looks like I got owned. I've always thought Lucas was a balance between aerial and ground.
Stingers Lucas is not an aerial character
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A Lucas+ Primer & Discussion: NOW DISCUSSING MARF MATCHUP
- Thread starter Shell
- Start date
Stingers Lucas is not an aerial character
stingers
Smash Obsessed
would you consider marth an aerial character
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
I would say he is more of an aerial character than Lucas is
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
I suppose. Yeah why?
But I'm not really Marth savvy.
(when Marth and Aerial come to mind I think Fair)
Shell
Flute-Fox Only
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
- Messages
- 2,042
He's got a pretty solid aerial and ground game. Sure, he needs to use his aerials to combo, but so does everyone. He's got a very safe ground game to fall back on, and he usually needs to return to the ground to kill. I don't know that I could really label him as one or the other.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
matt, i'd like to hear uh how you think that.
i cant imagine lucas ever approaching from the ground.
i cant imagine lucas ever approaching from the ground.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Just because you approach in the air doesn't mean you are an aerial character.
prOAPC
Smash Lord
may i suggest something? Like, a little more push back with a sh pk fire, more than normal pk fire, but less than a wavebounced pk fire
or remove knockback on nair's last hit, nair is for racking up damage and combos, it doesn't need that knockback, it just make combos harder
or remove knockback on nair's last hit, nair is for racking up damage and combos, it doesn't need that knockback, it just make combos harder
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
Hey guys, I love to discuss semantics.
You know, me calling him an aerial character changes everything. Oh wait, it doesn't matter.
I have a few sexy throws cooking up for Lucas, might be just the little bit of something he needs to spice up his game.
I made his dthrow kind of like a reverse Ness downthrow. It can link into any of his aerials (yes turning fair, bair, or dair )
You know, me calling him an aerial character changes everything. Oh wait, it doesn't matter.
I have a few sexy throws cooking up for Lucas, might be just the little bit of something he needs to spice up his game.
I made his dthrow kind of like a reverse Ness downthrow. It can link into any of his aerials (yes turning fair, bair, or dair
)
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
That sounds cool shanus, I'm eager to see what you guys do with his throws.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Lucas is an amazing character. Even more so than Ness.
The new physics really helped Lucas alot. No... From now I on, I refer to Brawl + Lucas as Claus. (Since I use his Commander texture swap)
The new physics really helped Lucas alot. No... From now I on, I refer to Brawl + Lucas as Claus. (Since I use his Commander texture swap)
SIGH!!!! agin... this is bull ****, and hes still getting buffs... wtf
(my main rival plays lucas/zelda and I play Ness/Link I'm not just hateing for no reason)
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
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- Messages
- 3,679
Dude, it's Claus.
Lucas in Brawl + doesn't exist.
Lucas in Brawl + doesn't exist.
Lil'E
Smash Apprentice
Maybe my opponents just suck... , but down throw to up smash or down throw to bair spike is good.
CountKaiser
Smash Lord
So you're mad that Lucas is getting buffs and Ness isn't?
Lil'E
Smash Apprentice
I can see why he would be. He said his rival plays Lucas so that's giving him an even harder time; although, an increased challenge from my rivals is always a welcome change.
Lucas was already stated to be better in vbrawl and I guess they seem to be keeping him this way in brawl+. He's actually getting buffs that help him while Ness is...
Although I play them both so win-win.
Lucas was already stated to be better in vbrawl and I guess they seem to be keeping him this way in brawl+. He's actually getting buffs that help him while Ness is...
Although I play them both so win-win.
inb4 "Ness is fine."
The dude above me pointed out some reasons ... but, its mostly annoying because lucas really is fine. As the other guy said he was already better than ness in vbrawl... im not mad that ness isent getting buffs.Hes getting plenty ... hes just harder to work with than lucas because (like my other main link) he has bad moveset syndrome.
Its just annoying that there is talk of giveing lucas a ness dthrow... THAT ACTUALLY WORKS... nesses is super easy to DI..
but, yeh it was mostly a stab at lucas because my rival ***** my ness with him pretty bad... kinda like: Ness(me): PK THUND- Lucas(rival): PK YOUR ****ED! *ness falls to his death* have you ever tryed to bat lucas and got a (much faster more powerfull) stick in return before your bat animation finishes? ... its like getting kicked in the ballz.
CountKaiser
Smash Lord
Ness has bad moveset syndrome?
He has a uair that combos and kills, a dair that's the second strongest in the game, a nice fair, a bair that kills, killing bthrow, a nair that's good at edgeguarding, a dsmash edgueguard, larger pk flash, and new dthrow that works rather well.
All that he would need now is a way for yoyos to stop clanking with aerial hitboxes, and a fsmash that is strong enough to be worth a ****, and he should be set, most likely.
Anyway, what is it about Lucas that makes him an overall better character?
He has a uair that combos and kills, a dair that's the second strongest in the game, a nice fair, a bair that kills, killing bthrow, a nair that's good at edgeguarding, a dsmash edgueguard, larger pk flash, and new dthrow that works rather well.
All that he would need now is a way for yoyos to stop clanking with aerial hitboxes, and a fsmash that is strong enough to be worth a ****, and he should be set, most likely.
Anyway, what is it about Lucas that makes him an overall better character?
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Ness is a much better character than Lucas in vBrawl. The tier list is only remotely accurate in the top, high and possibly mid tier placement. Low tier is a mess.
Lucas in Brawl+ IS better than Ness. He's good due to the physics change, and fixing of things that ****** him over.
I'm sure his buffs will stop.
This pretty much.
Hmm you bring up good points...(why is it so hard to fix him if his moveset was fine? most chars need few buffs to be viable ness needs a book of them from all the changes ive seen done to him. Sounds like bad moveset syndrome.) but what makes lucas an overall better chars is
Recovery: zapjump, bsticking, longer range pkt2, less gimpable pkt1
Hitboxes: He has HUGE hitboxes on most of his moves and thats good for anything really. Ness has tiny ones wich ****s him over in battles against chars with any range.
RELIABLE kill moves: Dsmash edgeguard, Nair to fsmash, trip to fsmash, a shiny new spike (doesnt suck anymore).
DAMAGE OUTPUT: he does amazing damage per attack... and he can combo pretty well.
Fast Bs: psi magent,pk freeze, pk fire ... all faster than nesses psi magent, pk flash, pk fire and as we all know the less punishable something is the more usable it is in a tournament.
All of these things he has over ness. Ness has throws, and a fast air game (combos) everything eles is below lucas. **** lucas even has a better pummel... come on.
I'm not saying Ness is somekinda **** tier and lucas ***** him in everyway... becuase its still a good match... lucas just has the edge in many aspects.
Gravyguy101
Smash Cadet
Okay first of you shouldn't be saying that Lucas is too good for ONE match up. Lucas is by no means top tier I lost sets yesterday to a fox and a Ganon. His new DThrow is easily DI-able as well. plus grabbing with Lucas isn't as easy as Ness, if ness misses a grab no big deal. If lucas misses a grab, let alone a dash grab, its usually a Smash attack to the face.
and I know you didn't just compare pk freeze to pk flash... If you think freeze is better because it comes out faster, then please PM me the location where you buy your drugs as I clearly am not getting the good stuff.
Ness's PK fire actually leads to something, his Psi Magnet is amazing and comes out faster(as of 7-21 nightly build)
and I know you didn't just compare pk freeze to pk flash... If you think freeze is better because it comes out faster, then please PM me the location where you buy your drugs as I clearly am not getting the good stuff.
...You just defined Lucas as a counter pick to Ness. Is something wrong with that?
LOL, yes thats the point ... I was just saying that lucas is better than ness... I wasnet saying lucas was a great char or top tier... Hes just better than ness. You also just reiterated my point about ness haveing grabs over lucas... I know that pk freeze is a pretty ****ty attack. You can even absorb it with psi magnet in this match up, But the likely hood of hitting with it is just a bit better than pk flash.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
You can't say a character is better than another just because they have a good matchup with that character.
Also PK Flash is MUCH easier to hit with than PK Freeze.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
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- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Rise and shine Lucas mains!
Marth mains are a discussing you.
(Where did you all go?)
Marth mains are a discussing you.
(Where did you all go?)
prOAPC
Smash Lord
i like balance lucas' pk freeze
Gravyguy101
Smash Cadet
Okay after playing Lucas a god awful amount I think the following changes should be tried in the next nightly build.
PK freeze - should have zero knockback it shouldn't send them up it should just freeze in their tracks and they fall to the ground. Also it should not send Lucas into a Free Fall. If Zelda's Din's Fire doesn't send her into Free fall anymore then there is no reason Lucas should die for using a significantly less useful move off stage.
PSI Magnet- Come out faster, I'm not sure of the frame data but the gameplay speed has sped up. I can't tell you how many times I predict a projectile but the move just doesn't come out quick enough.
PKT2 - Higher knockback growth at the least. Toon Link lived at 150% plus from a direct hit, Lucas' recovery is easy to gimp atleast this will make it a little more dangerous to willing get in the way.
I feel none of these changes would break Lucas they would only spread out his options and diversify him as a character.
question comments concerns?
PK freeze - should have zero knockback it shouldn't send them up it should just freeze in their tracks and they fall to the ground. Also it should not send Lucas into a Free Fall. If Zelda's Din's Fire doesn't send her into Free fall anymore then there is no reason Lucas should die for using a significantly less useful move off stage.
PSI Magnet- Come out faster, I'm not sure of the frame data but the gameplay speed has sped up. I can't tell you how many times I predict a projectile but the move just doesn't come out quick enough.
PKT2 - Higher knockback growth at the least. Toon Link lived at 150% plus from a direct hit, Lucas' recovery is easy to gimp atleast this will make it a little more dangerous to willing get in the way.
I feel none of these changes would break Lucas they would only spread out his options and diversify him as a character.
question comments concerns?
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
I would PM SHeLL, or contact him in some other way.
Although he will probably notice new posts in the Lucas thread on his own.
EDIT: Also, I increased the size of Psimagnet so that the hitbox was a bit bigger than the main sphere animation. It made it a pretty nice move, but I feel it would have to be a bit faster to really be useful. People in the Nightly kinda have a Lucas stigma though.
Although he will probably notice new posts in the Lucas thread on his own.
EDIT: Also, I increased the size of Psimagnet so that the hitbox was a bit bigger than the main sphere animation. It made it a pretty nice move, but I feel it would have to be a bit faster to really be useful. People in the Nightly kinda have a Lucas stigma though.
Machiavelli.CF
Ivy of the West
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2008
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- 757
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- Orange County, CA
- NNID
- Machiavelli.CF
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from my personal experience in psa building an ice character im pretty sure that:
the time a character is frozen in ice is about equal to the hitstun they'd normally have if they werent hit with an ice attack.
therefore no knockback, will either not freeze them at all of freeze them for the blink of an eye.
camelot
Smash Ace
I actually found a way to make an attack still deal hitstun like normal, but do 0 knockback.
If you make an attack hit at an angle of 365 (or 16D in hex), it does just that.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
If we buff PK Freeze it needs an increase in size as well, it has a pitifully sized hitbox.
at 70% increased it's at the size of the animation.
at 70% increased it's at the size of the animation.
Revven
FrankerZ
You might want to get in touch with Viet about it, since he did the Zair hitbox thing a few weeks to a month or so back.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Nice, you accepted the magnet change.
About PK Freeze, If we do make it useful we probably shouldn't increase it 70%, more like 50%, it doesn't need to be the entire animation.
About PK Freeze, If we do make it useful we probably shouldn't increase it 70%, more like 50%, it doesn't need to be the entire animation.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
People who main Lucas (Or play him at all): Go to the character forums and post stuff (http://allisbrawl.com/forum/forum.aspx?fid=362)
GOGOGO
GOGOGO
Gravyguy101
Smash Cadet
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Guys, post in the character boards on AiB.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Bump
I know you're there adrian
I know you're there adrian
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Recently I've been playing a ton of Guilty Gear and Melee since my roomate updated my wii when I bought NSMB <_<
I rehacked my wii but now it's having trouble reading the brawl disk.......
anyways, how well does Nair do with 8 frames of landing lag? Or does it AC at some point, I honestly can't remember because the lag was so extremely low before the new beta that I couldn't really tell.
Also, people should post on AiB more. We need a Lucas+ player finder or something.
I rehacked my wii but now it's having trouble reading the brawl disk.......
anyways, how well does Nair do with 8 frames of landing lag? Or does it AC at some point, I honestly can't remember because the lag was so extremely low before the new beta that I couldn't really tell.
Also, people should post on AiB more. We need a Lucas+ player finder or something.