ComboBaker
Smash Cadet
The forward throw most certainly isn't useless! >
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A Competitive Jigglypuff Guide For Smashboards
- Thread starter illinialex24
- Start date
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Depends on the opponents brains. Its like a 70 degree throw if the DI properly and they are sent to low to really set anything up. But if they DI incorrectly, its a nice 30 degree for a WoP. So its worthless.The forward throw most certainly isn't useless! >
Glick
Smash Lord
I like bthrow and down throw the best. Down throw sends them close enough to do some strings and bair is great for wop set ups. Up throw is really only used for mindgames. The whole, Up throw and shield grab and then do something else mindgame. or up throw rollout charge mindgames.
if the f-throw sends them not to far, i like to hit them with an up-pound (after a jump forward of course )
and thank you illinialex for the great review of jiggs
ive got to admit that i learned a few combos that i have never thought of before
we've still got to brawl sometime to see how i compare jiggly-wise
)and thank you illinialex for the great review of jiggs
ive got to admit that i learned a few combos that i have never thought of before
we've still got to brawl sometime to see how i compare jiggly-wise
PND
Smash Champion
Anti Marth:
I was playing some Marths last night, and we have a surefire way through retreating his retreating fairs. Time a dash grab, we can get them out of it without being punished. The timing window is pretty strict, but I managed to do it quite consistently once I got the timing down. I didn't have a chance to test it, but I hypothesize this may go through some of his tilts and his jab as well.
FYI, Jiggs dash grab has one of the largest ranges in the game, play with it's range. It may make this match, and others, far more viable.
I was playing some Marths last night, and we have a surefire way through retreating his retreating fairs. Time a dash grab, we can get them out of it without being punished. The timing window is pretty strict, but I managed to do it quite consistently once I got the timing down. I didn't have a chance to test it, but I hypothesize this may go through some of his tilts and his jab as well.
FYI, Jiggs dash grab has one of the largest ranges in the game, play with it's range. It may make this match, and others, far more viable.
Maniclysane
Smash Lord
How often is Jiggz going to be on the ground? I know her grabs are pretty good, but I wouldn't risk being on the ground for too long. I haven't played any good Marths in my area, so I'm probably wrong.
PND
Smash Champion
If you're in the air you have no answers to retreating fair. Like, none. Popping to the ground out of range and then stutterstepping the grab seemed to get him every time I pulled it off, confusing the hell out of him.
My Jiggs touches ground often enough. Usually in the air, but I know how to play her on the ground when required.
My Jiggs touches ground often enough. Usually in the air, but I know how to play her on the ground when required.
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
What's wrong with being on the ground. Shield, grab, and dash attack are all pretty good when used right.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Cool, I'm glad you like them.
Veril
Frame Savant
Since the topic of a grounded Jiggs and Illinialex's youtube vids came up:
How fast is Illinialex's rest definitely made me want to play Jiggs... among many other things.
I'm wondering why their hasn't been more discussion on what moves Jiggs has the innate ability to punish with rest (other than the continuous neutral-a moves), and how. I'm sure the really good jiggs mains know all this already but...
Like, in that video you DIed into toon link to rest him after the first hit of his forward smash. There's a lot of opportunities to get a rest with DI, perfect shielding, normal shielding and rolls, and just awesome timing. Perfect shield is normally the devil so I'm interested in how to hit before the opponent can possibly get their shield up.
Lets take wolf's forward smash: you can perfect shield and immediately rest, you can DI the first hit and rest, OR just rest. Rest can hit him out of his forward smash, because of its SA you take no damage and get a free rest. Really tough to do though. There is nothing the wolf player can do if you properly use ANY of these methods, especially the "surprise rest".
This "surprise" rest, the one that simply ignores the attack, works on a lot of attacks. I haven't done that much testing but I know that this works on Kirby and Bowsers F-smash, Lucas's dash attack (before the psi-thing appears), etc. Probably will work on all attacks that move the attackers hitbox/hurtbox, and of course, not disjointed. SOOO cool to just eat an attack like that.
Being grounded is great in that you have fantastic opportunity to punish moves. Kirby's up-smash, bad news as far as I'm concerned. But just normally shielding it can push you the exact right distance for a roll-rest. The down-smash is similar, if you're on the edges of its hitbox (tips of kirby's feet) and you shield it, you will be able to roll-rest before he can possibly put up his shield.
I'm sorta going through all the movesets to see how affective these methods are for which moves. REALLY good against kirby.
How fast is Illinialex's rest definitely made me want to play Jiggs... among many other things.
I'm wondering why their hasn't been more discussion on what moves Jiggs has the innate ability to punish with rest (other than the continuous neutral-a moves), and how. I'm sure the really good jiggs mains know all this already but...
Like, in that video you DIed into toon link to rest him after the first hit of his forward smash. There's a lot of opportunities to get a rest with DI, perfect shielding, normal shielding and rolls, and just awesome timing. Perfect shield is normally the devil so I'm interested in how to hit before the opponent can possibly get their shield up.
Lets take wolf's forward smash: you can perfect shield and immediately rest, you can DI the first hit and rest, OR just rest. Rest can hit him out of his forward smash, because of its SA you take no damage and get a free rest. Really tough to do though. There is nothing the wolf player can do if you properly use ANY of these methods, especially the "surprise rest".
This "surprise" rest, the one that simply ignores the attack, works on a lot of attacks. I haven't done that much testing but I know that this works on Kirby and Bowsers F-smash, Lucas's dash attack (before the psi-thing appears), etc. Probably will work on all attacks that move the attackers hitbox/hurtbox, and of course, not disjointed. SOOO cool to just eat an attack like that.
Being grounded is great in that you have fantastic opportunity to punish moves. Kirby's up-smash, bad news as far as I'm concerned. But just normally shielding it can push you the exact right distance for a roll-rest. The down-smash is similar, if you're on the edges of its hitbox (tips of kirby's feet) and you shield it, you will be able to roll-rest before he can possibly put up his shield.
I'm sorta going through all the movesets to see how affective these methods are for which moves. REALLY good against kirby.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Nice find. I did not know this worked on Wolf. So we can Rest out of:
F-smash's:
Toon Link's
Diddy Kong's
Wolf's
Jabs (For sure):
Sheik
Falco
Veril
Frame Savant
added a few.Nice find. I did not know this worked on Wolf. So we can Rest out of:
F-smash's:
Toon Link's
Diddy Kong's
Wolf's (overlapping hitbox "surprise" or SDI)
Kirby (overlapping hitbox)
Bowser (overlapping hitbox)
Gannondorf (overlapping hitbox, close spacing required)
Mario (ditto)
Luigi! (overlapping hitbox, must be no more than a Luigi arm's length apart)
Up-Smash:
Luigi (overlapping hitbox)
Dash Attack
Luigi! (Right before the final knockback hit, DI into Luigi to rest)
Jabs (For sure):
Sheik
Falco
Kirby
Up-Special
Luigi! (Yes, rest beats his omega death punch by a very slight margin, when the up-b is started there is a tiny window of opportunity to rest, tested btw)
I'm 100% positive of these. "Surprise rest" is not DI to rest or rest after the first hit, its resting just as their hitbox would overlap yours such that you get the invincibility frames as they would hit you, and the rest hits them. Sometimes specific spacing is required to hit the body. It doesn't work on all attacks though... otherwise I would be wasting my time I guess. Like, I can't get it to work with Charizard or Wario even though theoretically it should.
OKAY OKAY! That Jab-Jab Up-B combo that Luigi uses can ALWAYS be countered with rest.
That is my contribution to Jiggs. I doubt I will ever top that.
PND
Smash Champion
I've surprise Rest a Bowser's Fsmash before. It was amazing.
Also, we can rest out of Rollout and I believe any of Sonic's spinny moves.
Also, we can rest out of Rollout and I believe any of Sonic's spinny moves.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Nice. I gotta test these. I think something has to be special though. I'll test it. And likely add a section in metagame.
PND
Smash Champion
Oh, and although obnoxiously difficult to time, we can rest out of Falco and Fox's illusions. Their hurtbox extends before their hitbox, thus why long lasting hitboxes can hit them out of it.
Glick
Smash Lord
Wait. So, I'm going to try and test this, but, I think one thing that would completely make jiggz better would be like being able to rest someone 100% of the time if you power shield their smash. Because it gives you the risk of getting hit while giving you the chance to rest them.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Yeah but that is ridiculously hard....
Veril
Frame Savant
I'm already testing everything. A bunch of smashes work with the Perfect shield > rest combo. I'll post a list tomorrow on the boards of everything I find.
Negating the jab-jab superfire punch combo is the best thing ever.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
OMG YES. If you can get a list of all this... thats going straight into the guide.
Glick
Smash Lord
Veril for god tier.
PND
Smash Champion
Glick for Satan tier.
666 posts lol
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Lol. And thanks Veril.
PND
Smash Champion
A thought. . .
I was reading your guide again (As I occasionally do) and I was thinking about the DACUSes, the 20% extra knockback, and the perfect rests.
Does the extra 20% knockback count for rest as well? Because if so, that would kill Snake ludicrously early if mastered, n'est pas? As soon as he mortar slides, Rest 'em. Wouldn't that kill at like 60-65%? >_>
Food for thought.
I was reading your guide again (As I occasionally do) and I was thinking about the DACUSes, the 20% extra knockback, and the perfect rests.
Does the extra 20% knockback count for rest as well? Because if so, that would kill Snake ludicrously early if mastered, n'est pas? As soon as he mortar slides, Rest 'em. Wouldn't that kill at like 60-65%? >_>
Food for thought.
Veril
Frame Savant
O.o Feel the love lol.
Are you going to keep all the matchup stuff in a separate thread or are you planning on changing this one.
If so I highly recommend revising diddy kong to account for the interrupt rest vs. his f-smash, u-smash, dash attack, jabs, and the ability to perfect rest his side b and dash grab. The dash attack becomes almost totally useless and he can't combo us like other characters.
Are you going to keep all the matchup stuff in a separate thread or are you planning on changing this one.
If so I highly recommend revising diddy kong to account for the interrupt rest vs. his f-smash, u-smash, dash attack, jabs, and the ability to perfect rest his side b and dash grab. The dash attack becomes almost totally useless and he can't combo us like other characters.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
I am going to change this one.
Veril
Frame Savant
the dash attack can definitely be interrupted up to 90%. It may be possible up to 110% but I have not gotten the DI down. It is definitely possible to escape at high%. At 100 I've been able to get a drill rest off, but an interrupt is way better/cooler/sexier.
The best window of opportunity is after the second hit.
The best window of opportunity is after the second hit.
Sosuke
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 25,073
- Switch FC
- 8132-9932-4710
Alright well then.
Rest Toon Link's Fsmash. =D
/discussion.
K, seriously.
Idk the match up numbers. =/
Jiggz is weird for TL. Its just about who is in control at the time imo. I know if Jigglypuff is pressuring TL's shield, hes going to retreat. TL can't really do anything about it if you space well.
Projectiles are probably not going to be a big deal for Jiggz because hes in the Air a lot and her aerials (and pound) take care of projectiles. TL can't gimp Jiggz as far as I'm aware of.
The only thing you really have to worry about imo is not getting killed early. And TL usually can't Fsmash, and Dsmash doesn't kill well, so worry about Usmash and Uair. Mostly Uair. Avoid being above Toon Link as much as you can. TL's Zair is his most important spacing Tool. Stay up very close so you can hit him with aerials and stuff without him having the chance to space. Theres nothing else that comes to mind that you have to worry about.
Thats all I gotz.
Rest Toon Link's Fsmash. =D
/discussion.
K, seriously.
Idk the match up numbers. =/
Jiggz is weird for TL. Its just about who is in control at the time imo. I know if Jigglypuff is pressuring TL's shield, hes going to retreat. TL can't really do anything about it if you space well.
Projectiles are probably not going to be a big deal for Jiggz because hes in the Air a lot and her aerials (and pound) take care of projectiles. TL can't gimp Jiggz as far as I'm aware of.
The only thing you really have to worry about imo is not getting killed early. And TL usually can't Fsmash, and Dsmash doesn't kill well, so worry about Usmash and Uair. Mostly Uair. Avoid being above Toon Link as much as you can. TL's Zair is his most important spacing Tool. Stay up very close so you can hit him with aerials and stuff without him having the chance to space. Theres nothing else that comes to mind that you have to worry about.
Thats all I gotz.
Veril
Frame Savant
maybe we should discuss TL next... I haven't tested him yet. I just know his jab combo and F-smash are counterable. I think his up-b grounded is as well. We shall see.
Oh, bombs are good for Jiggs btw.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Nah I made a thread about the matchup solely for my guide on the TL and ROB boards.
Nintendevil
Smash Ace
ok Here...
I think ROB definitely has the advantage. I wouldn't say 70:30 for sure yet, but a big one.
Jiggly is one o the few characters that poses a threat to Gimping ROB. Keep it in mind. Also, a lot of Jiggly players like to spam Rollout because ROB is big. This is a bad idea, we have lots of ways to stop it, and it's just plain... stupid >.>
Most of ROBs general spacing options will beat whatever Jiggs has got. Also, Jiggs being so light weight, means Uthrow is an easy kill move now. Rest is also kinda weird because of ROBs hurtboxes. I Just don't see anything that stands out as a bad thing for ROB.
Your best CP is battle field, but if ROB bans that, pick something else with lots of platforms.
I think ROB definitely has the advantage. I wouldn't say 70:30 for sure yet, but a big one.
Jiggly is one o the few characters that poses a threat to Gimping ROB. Keep it in mind. Also, a lot of Jiggly players like to spam Rollout because ROB is big. This is a bad idea, we have lots of ways to stop it, and it's just plain... stupid >.>
Most of ROBs general spacing options will beat whatever Jiggs has got. Also, Jiggs being so light weight, means Uthrow is an easy kill move now. Rest is also kinda weird because of ROBs hurtboxes. I Just don't see anything that stands out as a bad thing for ROB.
Your best CP is battle field, but if ROB bans that, pick something else with lots of platforms.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
I personally, from a fair number of battles, think its almost even. And her best CP is Japes.
PND
Smash Champion
Jiggs is my anti-ROB.
Another good level against him is Halberd. Srsly. I'll explain later, I gotta get to work.
Another good level against him is Halberd. Srsly. I'll explain later, I gotta get to work.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Nair would **** Jigglypuff though on Halberd. One nair and you are dead....
Veril
Frame Savant
You can SDI to interrupt Rob's D-smash
I swear I just lurk to chime in about rest
I swear I just lurk to chime in about rest
illinialex24
Smash Hero
You can, cause that is the worlds most spammable move besides any MK move.... Nice... I gotta see video of this....You can SDI to interrupt Rob's D-smash
I swear I just lurk to chime in about rest
Nintendevil
Smash Ace
ROB is even with a lot of people, but not everyone XD. Probably 60:40 like most matchups I guess. btw Japes is a great CP for ROB too, so BF is the best option.
I know Fairs take care of Jiggly well. Not that Jiggly can't approach well, she (it) really can, it's just most things Jiggly can do, ROB can... do better.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
No I know but the advantage here is Jigglypuff for Japes, and she does better there by a lot than BF against him. But if he CP's frigate, she's in trouble because nair kills insanely early.
Nintendevil
Smash Ace
Yes but ROB also does badly on BF (well, some people think so
) It's what id'e pick in your position anyways.andgeturassinthechatnow.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Ok lol. I'm there.Yes but ROB also does badly on BF (well, some people think so
andgeturassinthechatnow.