Veril and I went through all of the Sakurai angles on a case by case basis. Because the Sakurai Angles are actually good for comboing any move that could combo was left alone. Kill moves on the other hand were changed so that they would actually kill off the side instead of at their kill percents pull to the corner, thus dragging matches on longer.
I know you too divided the work amongst yourselves, and so it seems a lot of things were missed due to the sheer amount of work required for 40 or so characters.
Moves like Ganon's reverse Warlock Punch and Link's Fair (both were fixed) initially did not have their Sakurai Angles removed. The task of going case-by-case for 40 or so characters is daunting, if not only because of the time involved.
How I interpret this: moves are either combo moves (let's put jabs and trip-inducing moves here as well) or kill moves. This seems very black and white, but certainly some moves must be in the gray, no?
I've only looked at a few characters (namely those I play before one tries to reach their own conclusions), but a lot of moves still retain their Sakurai Angles, even if it's not beneficial to them. Why is that, is it a mistake (and if it is anyone can easily fix it).
Marth has a lot of Sakurai Angles in his moveset, and so while I'm not too fond on discussing him again:
Ftilt: Is a kill move, no Sakurai Angle change.
Nair: Tip is a kill move, no Sakurai Angle change.
Now these moves seem to fit into the black-and-white quite well. Nair is leaning a bit towards gray due to its flub hitboxes having combo capabilities.
However, there are also moves with a bit of gray area:
Dancing Blade (finale neutral): Now we nerfed the knockback of this move so that it would no longer be a reliable (and spammable) kill move. However the finale hit is
certainly NOT a combo move, but it's not
exactly a kill move either. If it's not one or the other, should it be changed? It
wasn't changed, so is the answer no?
Marth's and Ike's Counter: Both of these moves did not receive Sakurai Angle changes either. Now these aren't combo inducing moves...but they aren't pure kill moves either, in fact, the only factor that determines its killing ability is
what it counters! I believe this is in a gray (imo).
Wolf Ftilt (final hitboxes): It isn't a kill move, but like DBN4, it also doesn't combo by any speck of the imagination.
Toon Link Fair: Here's a big one. This move did not receive Sakurai Angle adjustments, but it is a kill move, however at lower percents it sets up nicely for strings (which of course are a lot like combos). This move seems to fall more in the "like Link Fair accident" box than the "gray area" box, but that's just from my observations of how closely the two moves work, and yet supposedly received different judgment calls (was not decided on during the quick PM regard Sakurai Angles sent to the "Voting Committee."
Interestingly enough, Marth is also perhaps of the handful of characters that somehow received a
nerf in these Sakurai Angle adjustments (believe me this seems so minor that it was just odd to see, no hate bros):
Dsmash has two 'flub' hitboxes around Marth's body on each swing (hitboxes 2 and 3 on each swing). They used to be angle 361...which was
oddly enough a
nice perk. Those flubs would then send slightly horizontal, and basically be a slightly stronger-than-flub-Fsmash! However these angles did not receive the 25-40 degree treatment, but had their angles homogenized with the other hitboxes to have matching vertical trajectories.
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I'm sure there are a lot more moves that suffer being 'skipped' or 'being in a gray area', which is why I asked: "
Is this a half-finished attempt at a 'minor' mechanics change?" The large majority of moves DO NOT want Sakurai Angles, only a few do (namely jabs and trip-inducing tilts).
Also if they do happen to be mistakes then I or anyone can easily fix them. If to help this project I need to make enemies with former comrades by being a ***** then I guess there's no helping it. It seems you suddenly become an enemy to the state the moment you even attempt to constructively criticize anything.
The sakurai angle changes are something that took a long long long time and a ton of work on the part of Blind and I. Moves were adjusted on a case-by-case basis, focusing on moves that could KO but not combo. Most moves so altered were changed to a 35° angle, this was a blanket buff. Some moves were changed to 40 or 45° angles if they already were extremely powerful (see Lucario's forward smash). A few rare moves were given other angles (such as bowser's weak bair), when the moves had multiple hitboxes and we wanted to match the weak with the strong, etc.
So then you understand that when only two people tackle a task like that that mistakes are bound to happen, or some things are missed. I am not denying the amount of work required for that task, but I do know the amount of error that can happen with a task as tedious as that.
If you are suggesting that I lack understanding on the amount of work you and Blinds did, I do not. I am not here to undermine anyone's work and that I hope you take my criticisms objectively not personally.
As to smashboards vs. iRC/Aim/phone. Beyond the lack of activity here by the majority of members of the wbr (prior to like a week ago when people pulled their heads out of the ground) and the ease of use of alternate methods... the wbr has never been used exclusively to transmit information and it never will be. There's a separate forum for PM on brawlplus.net, and even given that I am sure the bulk of discussion goes on elsewhere, in bits and pieces of conversation between the people working on it. That is simply the nature of any of these projects.
I am aware of this since I've been admitted here as long as you have. However there are several other factors as to why things are the way they are. No one is to blame, as we've all basically agreed to this way. That's not to say it's the best in all cases, but I'm sure you understand.
". I'd like an answer too.
