Completely unnecessary wall of text
I didn't have time to test 75m... school, yo! And we don't need additional stages from any competitive standpoint. I intend to try it out tomorrow with whoever shows up for my birthday fest thang.
Either way I don't want to include additional stages officially until I know what we are doing with the ones we have now. Its sorta a more pressing concern since everything is set for the release...
This is just infuriating! I feel like tearing my hair out. This way of thinking is straight-up backward. Throw stuff at the community, and let
them decide what to do with it. Forget discussing whether it's good enough. The fact of the matter is that it's leagues better than the original. You can't possibly argue against that. just release the **** stage, and let the community sort out what goes where. If they like it, they like it. If they don't, they don't, and we can release a fix in a DLC pack somewhere down the line. But don't just disregard our **** because your predetermined prejudices against anything remotely different from what you're used to means you actually have to
take some time and
learn a stage. I know, right! Outrageous!
Bull. F***ing. S***.
Also, you called Summit+ "extreme". I laughed out loud.
======
@GOG: not quite. If neither of us have any idea what goes on on Hyrule, the results when the two of us play will be roughly equal (assuming equal skill, etc., of course). Say I know the stage and you don't. Even if I somehow let myself get cp'd there as ganon against fox, I'd probably win. Because I know the stage, and you don't. That's ok. On the flipside, if you know the stage, and I don't, you'd shellack me. Or time me out. Or both. whatever. That also works out. In a metagame where Hyrule is legal, it's a very powerful cp for Fox, just looking at the three scenarios above.
However, this is ignoring the part where we both know the stage. Even if I know it equally as well as you,
even if i'm vastly more skilled than you, the stage gives you a near 100-0 matchup. Nothing I can do as a Ganon can even touch you. This goes beyond knowing characters, matchup, and stage. Even if i know all three to the best of my ability, and you only know bits and pieces of each, I still can't win.
Now, does this apply to Summit+? First off, it's probably too early to tell. Secondly, probably not. For argument's sake, I play a mean Olimar, you wreck with Ike, all else is equal, and Ike utterly wrecks Olimar on Summit+ for no good reason. If I don't ban it, and you counterpick me there, that's almost an assured win - it's that bad. But the fundamental difference there is that I can do something about this. If I play enough Ikes on Summit+, I'll see patterns in the way they play. More importantly, these patterns aren't "shoot one laser and run away for the rest of the match", so I can develop some kind of counter-tactics. Maybe I get in a habit of rolling toward you when I see you charging a moving fsmash. Maybe I abuse the sliding in a way you didn't see coming. Maybe I decide not to even go near you and I camp the upper platform, so the ice doesn't even come into play. And though you still have the advantage, and though you still win most of our games there, I can eke out a victory here or there. And when some random Ike guy cp's me there when he sees I don't ban it, I utterly destroy him. Because my knowledge of the stage can overcome that handicap that comes with getting cp'd here. I can't do that with Ganon on Temple. Even if I do shut up and learn the stage, nothing makes my chance of winning any better.
======
And saying "it'll turn off newcomers"...a whole slew of things are gonna turn off newcomers. That's a fact of this project. Why not try telling them beforehand, or having a post that you can direct them to, or whatever, that a bunch of stages have been changed? "by the way, we've done more than balance the characters. A bunch of previously banned stages are now legal. Summit+ looks like this and doesn't move: *pic*. PS2 looks like this and doesn't move: *pic*. Skyworld looks like this and doesn't move: *pic*. Rumble Falls looks like this and doesn't move: *pic*. (i sense a pattern
) New Pork City looks like this and doesn't move, except for the ship. The jury's still out on whether it's good or not. Jungle Japes doesn't have water any more. Luigi's Mansion doesn't have any ceilings. PTAD has ledges, and the cars and the big wall are gone. That one ledge on Delfino that you were pissed about because you couldn't grab it...yeah, you can grab it now. PictoChat's hazards have been removed, and the really campy drawings are less campy because some of the platforms are fallthrough. Most stages have had their boundaries brought inward to make matches go a bit faster. The reason why you could never walljump when you wanted to? The game deliberately prevents you from walljumping on some walls. That's gone now."
Literally a minute to explain the changes, assuming you have a few pics lying around. Brawl+ is a new game, and vBrawl converts will have to get used to it if they want to get good. Thinking that someone should be able to use what they know from vBrawl is all fine and dandy, but thinking that it's a seamless transition back and forth is unreasonable. There's no reason whatsoever that that shouldn't extend to stages as well.
======
TL;DR: The worst that can happen to Summit+ is the same thing that happened to the failed Spear Pillar: out of sight and out of mind. Except we'll just try again. Holding up the set's release over whether or not you should include it is a non-issue. Include it. Just because it's an OFFICIAL BRAWL+ FILE doesn't mean everybody automatically is forced to fawn over it. What with the **** codesets that escape this place occasionally, I thought we'd have figured that out by now. But we'd never have known that RC1 was **** if we had decided to leave it hidden in here.
