AfroQT
Smash Master
Everyone be a neutralmonger like me and chopz.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
6/21/2008 GIGABITS - Bawling for a Brawling!
- Thread starter Mwarhead
- Start date
- Status
h1roshi
Smash Hero
dam, i better ask for this ish off soon.
-hiro
-hiro
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Well hopefully Boozely is still gonna team with me.
I am not gonna play DDD in teams with Ike no mas.
I am not gonna play DDD in teams with Ike no mas.
ghaudephaede010
Smash Journeyman
Dude, are you all crazy? Keep Luigi's Mansion. It is a great counter pick against a spamming projectile player. Try playing a spamming Pit or Pikachu in that stage. They can still win, but the projectile and (for Pikachu) up b spamming is not gone. That stage does way more good than harm and you guys are not thinking about it that way.
And Metaknight is tough in any stage. Luigi's Mansion is a good counter pick for him. I cannot understand why so many people want it banned and some of these other stages unbanned. Please, leave it as a counter pick. The stage is the definition of a counter pick if there ever was one.
And I am not saying this as a player that uses the stage, I use Frigate most of the time. There is no real reason to ban the stage. Especially when you can just strike the stage when playing a Metaknight character.
And Metaknight is tough in any stage. Luigi's Mansion is a good counter pick for him. I cannot understand why so many people want it banned and some of these other stages unbanned. Please, leave it as a counter pick. The stage is the definition of a counter pick if there ever was one.
And I am not saying this as a player that uses the stage, I use Frigate most of the time. There is no real reason to ban the stage. Especially when you can just strike the stage when playing a Metaknight character.
I'm a neutral monger, but I'm not going...
>_<
>_<
Finch
Smash Lord
Yeah I still have yet to see a reason for LM to be banned other than "it's a counterpick for MK" which is not a legitimate reason. Fox had a stupid counterpick in melee (green greens) but no one johned about that.
h1roshi
Smash Hero
im also a neutral monger, ALL NEUTRALS!!!! oh wait, i AM considering CP'ing rainbow cruis in the future. oh wells, for the most part im all neutrals.
-hiro
-hiro
Gindler
Smash Champion
Final Destination only! There now everyone's happy.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Luigi's Mansion shouldn't be banned because of MK owning on it.
It needs to be banned for the same reason Sky World is banned.
I can't believe you people are actually arguing it to be on.
Put on Snake's Stage while you're at it.
It needs to be banned for the same reason Sky World is banned.
I can't believe you people are actually arguing it to be on.
Put on Snake's Stage while you're at it.
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
You know, maybe it's time we try utilizing Stage Builder to make more neutrals. :DD
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
That's actually not a bad idea.
We should have a set "made up neutral stage(s)".
Then we can post the pic and have it stikied with how to make it in the thread.
We should have a set "made up neutral stage(s)".
Then we can post the pic and have it stikied with how to make it in the thread.
Samus_ABe
Smash Ace
umm yeah luigi's mansion is a great counterpick against pit...thats why i counterpicked it against danny and chaz in our third game during doubles...so what did they do?? hmm double meta knights for the win...luigi's is a great counterpick stage but meta abuses it wayy to hard, and whats the point of even counterpicking stages when your opponent can change characters? did i have to tell him i was going luigi's? cause chaz almost cried when i tried to pick it without letting him switch
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
Yah you had to tell him. =/
GDX
Smash Hero
thats true actually. the point of a counterpick is to usually put your opponent at a disadvantage...shouldn't they pick the stage after characters have been changed and whatnot? I mean, whats the point of a counterpick if ill just pick another char that doesnt suck on that stage as badly as the one im using now when you tell me beforehand.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
I really can't figure out why that stage would have ever even been considered when Sky World and Shadow Moses is banned.
Honestly if Luigi's Mansion is on than so should Sky World and Shadow Moses.
I swear if I goto one more tourney with Luigi's Mansion on, than at all my upcoming tourneys Imma put Sky World, Mario Kart, Jungle Japes, Shadow Moses, and other retared a$$ stages on NUETRAL.
I swear to Gold Oil Drugs I'll do it(even tho no one will show).
Honestly if Luigi's Mansion is on than so should Sky World and Shadow Moses.
I swear if I goto one more tourney with Luigi's Mansion on, than at all my upcoming tourneys Imma put Sky World, Mario Kart, Jungle Japes, Shadow Moses, and other retared a$$ stages on NUETRAL.
I swear to Gold Oil Drugs I'll do it(even tho no one will show).
Life After Death
Smash Champion
no rx- got a new partner thats why. so its emilio who ditched you pete not me.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
w/e I really don't care.
I already know I suck at this game.
And I knew it was gonna happen anyways.
I already know I suck at this game.
And I knew it was gonna happen anyways.
Life After Death
Smash Champion
U knew rx- would find a new partner?
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
No, I knew I wasn't gonna team with Linguini.
Raistlin
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 1,215
See, that wasn't as much of a problem in melee when you actually had to take time to learn characters instead of being able to almost instantly pick them up. You still get to pick a character after them, so pick a stage that is bad for them, and if they switch pick a character that is bad for them.
GodMeowMix
Smash Ace
i would go man i got your back, forget those luigi mansion loving fools!
but yea im totally looking forward to going to this, especially with a partner for gigs, anyone up for it? gimme a msg
bladeofapollo
Smash Ace
The problem with picking characters first falls into the fact that the winner has NO control of the next match. Stuff like picking Rainbow Cruise against ZSS would totally **** the next match.
Counter-picking has always been a guessing game. You pick a stage to get rid of the main threat and hope the follow up isn't that bad. I counterpick stages to make people play on a stage that I KNOW I can control or to get a person to switch to a character that they're not comfortable with. If your opponent pulls a fast one and has a character better adapted to the stage, then you can still pick a character that does well on your stage and still counters your opponent. It's all in good strategy.
Gindler
Smash Champion
Well if they CP rainbow cruise against ZSS, than just don't transform and stay samus. Mindgames!!!
But yeah, my CP is always just FD cause everyone loves it so I'm not to anger anyone and I love playing on it too. simplicity ftw.
But yeah, my CP is always just FD cause everyone loves it so I'm not to anger anyone and I love playing on it too. simplicity ftw.
Gmoney
Smash Ace
Gindler is 2gud.
bladeofapollo
Smash Ace
That is indeed quite clever... I'll have to remember that in the future. I supposed Olimar would have been a better example then >.<
And funny you said that about FD, I don't like it much... it's boring. Dynamic stages help me remain focused.
Finch
Smash Lord
I pretty much don't enjoy playing on FD. Even with characters that are good on it.
ghaudephaede010
Smash Journeyman
So wait, let me get this straight, you used the stage as a counter pick, and now you would agree it should be banned? Besides all that, nobody has given a ral reason why the stage should be banned. It is supposed to give some character an advantage and take thee advantage away from other characters. That is the definition of a counter pick stage. By the way, you should not announce the stage until the characters have been picked. That is thee order of the screens, that should be the way the game is played. That I agree should be changed. Once you pick a character for that round, you should have to stick with that pick. The counter pick is not to give the team that is winning an advantage.
And last, how hard is it to strike the stage. If Chaz and Dani would have decided that was the stage they wanted to strike, then there is no problem to begin with. The stage is a counter pick. There is no room for denying it. If you hate the stage, then just strike it. It really is that easy guys. I mean, come on people. At least leave thee option for the rest of us to use one of thee only true counter pick stages on the game.
Or have an argument that actually makes the stage look bad. "Meta will **** on it" only goes to show one more reason why the stage should be allowed and not a strike against it. If the stage is lame to you, that is no reason to ban it. You should just strike it. And that should close the debate.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Counterpicks/nuetrals in teams and singles are completely differnt.
ghaudephaede010
Smash Journeyman
StripesOrBars, I just looked over your previous posts and I cannot disagree with you more. But to point you out, I simply request something a little more concrete as a reason why the stage should be banned. I already mentioned one can strike it. Is there really a reason for more action to be necessary? Unless there is something compelling, you are wasting your time arguing a stage, that makes sense as a counter pick to any logical human being, should be banned.
To your last point, does that mean there should be different counter pick stages for teams as opposed to singles? And I am not sure how your last point really matters anyway. Especially since I was just using another persons example and not trying to set any standard. The point is, you have no valid reason for the stage to be banned so I cannot believe anyone in their right mind would follow you on this one.
I am used to thee internet forums; and I understand that even though I am correct, you are not going to say I am. So I am going to say it for you:
You: "ghaudephæde010, you are correct."
Me: "Thank you."
To your last point, does that mean there should be different counter pick stages for teams as opposed to singles? And I am not sure how your last point really matters anyway. Especially since I was just using another persons example and not trying to set any standard. The point is, you have no valid reason for the stage to be banned so I cannot believe anyone in their right mind would follow you on this one.
I am used to thee internet forums; and I understand that even though I am correct, you are not going to say I am. So I am going to say it for you:
You: "ghaudephæde010, you are correct."
Me: "Thank you."
Samus_ABe
Smash Ace
look i dont care what stages are counterpicks or not, ill play on luigi's whenever....
its fvcking ******** to have to announce what stage you are going to, that completely eliminates the point of a counterpick in every way.....we seriously need to change that(or is it even a rule??)
its fvcking ******** to have to announce what stage you are going to, that completely eliminates the point of a counterpick in every way.....we seriously need to change that(or is it even a rule??)
Gindler
Smash Champion
I don't think it's a rule, or at least no one was really an@l when I'd just pick a stage after character selection. Than again I haven't played a high ranking person in a gigs tourney yet so meh.
LOL @ people not knowing how counterpicking works
Your supposed to do this:
Loser of last match picks stage
Winner of last match then picks character
Finally, loser of last match picks character
This is so the loser can pick a stage they like!!!
Since they are announcing the stage first, it gives the person who won an opportunity to pick a different character (if they wish) knowing they are going to that particular level but...the winner will be at a disadvantage, because it may be a level they don't like/do well on + the loser gets to pick a character to use AFTER the winner chooses his/her character!!!
I've never seen a problem with the current way of doing it!!!
Your supposed to do this:
Loser of last match picks stage
Winner of last match then picks character
Finally, loser of last match picks character
This is so the loser can pick a stage they like!!!
Since they are announcing the stage first, it gives the person who won an opportunity to pick a different character (if they wish) knowing they are going to that particular level but...the winner will be at a disadvantage, because it may be a level they don't like/do well on + the loser gets to pick a character to use AFTER the winner chooses his/her character!!!
I've never seen a problem with the current way of doing it!!!
Samus_ABe
Smash Ace
i duno queen i just dont think the winners should get to know what stage they are going to before they make their character selection, but w/e ill shutup about it cause no one cares
I never said you need to shut up about it, you can voice your opinion...I was just stating mine and clearing up the process of it for people who don't fully understand it!!!
GDX
Smash Hero
btw, you never told us your story before gigs of how your name came to beI never said you need to shut up about it, you can voice your opinion...I was just stating mine and clearing up the process of it for people who don't fully understand it!!!
and i understand it, i just dont really agree with it. Im on abe's side, as in stage should be after character. About everybody likes neutrals, but the only reason you'd counterpick is to put the person's character at a distinct disadvantage (like anyone with a ****ty recovery on rainbow cruise). I mean, im not gonna stay diddy if someone tells me they're gonna pick rainbow cruise, im gonna change to gangsta watch. but if they pick after i stay characters, then i'd be the monkey still, and at disadvatage, ie. the purpose of the counterpick
thats just what i think. I dont outright hate the current method, but i'd prefer this one, if it were to ever change
HRNUT (Honey Roasted)
Smash Master
GDX and Abe make alot of sense with what they're saying...counterpicking becomes ineffective if they are able to change to a character to accomodate the stage
Finch
Smash Lord
Play more than one character and learn to adapt then instead of *****ing. Counterpicking is not supposed to give you a free win. If the person you're playing against is better than you then they will beat you.
OTRU...
Smash Champion
yo doodah if u still need a teammate we could team, tru?
GDX
Smash Hero
its not a free win, its to put their character at a disadvantage to give you a better chance of winning. I mean, just cause someone picks rainbow cruise against diddy doesn't mean that its a free win for that other person. it just makes it alot harder for me to win. Why would you pick a stage that the other person is good at with some other character? All you did was make them change chars. If they're still comfortable, the purpose of your counterpick hasn't been met
like earlier, whats the point of you picking rainbow cruise when im using diddy when ill just change to one of my chars that have an easier time on that stage, like game and watch. you had might as well not picked anything. and now you, the counterpicker, are in an even worse situation than before because now you have to play against a character with insane killing power and insane recovery who's probably better at the counterpick stage than you are!
I say either change the counterpick method to characters first then stage, or not have counterpicks at all, but add a few of the calmer counterpick stages as neutrals (like, adding PS1 as neutral, keeping the current neutrals including lylat, and banning the rest)
HRNUT (Honey Roasted)
Smash Master
Truu....if other people don't see this making sense then somethings wrong with them...the whole word "counter" means to overtake with something better thus a better stage, but it doesn't work if the loser counter gets countered by another character...which would result in a worthless counterpick anyways...the current method is pretty idiotic.
- Status