Official 4BR Tier List V3 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[ARGHETH]

So we've got 8 Japanese players in top 32 winners side (including a Link and DK!) in an American major no less. People still think they are inconsistent?

I thought they were only thought to be inconsistent in Japan, because of the Bo1 pools/lack of a monetary prize.

 

[BSP]

Isn't Dair a nice multihit?

Ryu can always true shoryuken Mario for dair on hit. It's super risky unless perfectly spaced so Ryu can't punch you for it (and he controls the spacing when he initiates the focus)


@Diamond Octobot

Cape is ok but Mario is still at risk because Ryu can input the punch in the reverse direction and still hit Mario for the cape.

Fludd could work, but either way Mario has to give Ryu lots of respect on his landings. It sucks

 

[Floor]

I posted a bit back in the Civil War discussion but I'll bring up a similar point here; what's up with MKLeo losing to another Ryu? People are saying he might have a Ryu block? Not sure if that's true or not and I guess we're all allowed out matchup blocks... But out of MKLeo's secondaries (Meta Knight, Cloud, Sheik) he still can't beat Ryus? What would happen if he fought Locus or Darkshad? Having a Ryu block kinda makes the case for top 3 PGR difficult. And all of this is odd considering Marcina doesn't have a particularly bad matchup against Ryu. Like it's even and they definitely have worse matchups that MKLeo does better against.

 

[ARGHETH]

I posted a bit back in the Civil War discussion but I'll bring up a similar point here; what's up with MKLeo losing to another Ryu? People are saying he might have a Ryu block? Not sure if that's true or not and I guess we're all allowed out matchup blocks... But out of MKLeo's secondaries (Meta Knight, Cloud, Sheik) he still can't beat Ryus? What would happen if he fought Locus or Darkshad? Having a Ryu block kinda makes the case for top 3 PGR difficult. And all of this is odd considering Marcina doesn't have a particularly bad matchup against Ryu. Like it's even and they definitely have worse matchups that MKLeo does better against.

It was a Sonic, actually, not Ryu. Meteor being a Ryu was apparently just a Twitch rumor that spread.

 

[Das Koopa]

from what I've been told, MKLeo was quite ill during the tournament. He was going MK dittos by the end of his set with Ac (which he apparently almost didn't even make it too)

so him being ill happened to fall on a day where everybody else was getting flushed down by the upset toilet. Unless it happens again I wouldn't take it as indicative of anything on Marth or MKLeo's career as a whole.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

People still think they are inconsistent?

Their tournament results *are*, in fact, quite inconsistent.

 

[FeelMeUp]

looked over the ZeRo vs Luhtie(sp?) set a few more times.

When are the non-Bayo players going to get punish games this strong and consistent? I doubt it's a super regular thing for him, but he killed ZeRo almost every time a hit connected and did a fantastic job of dodging with movement to pick his openings. Neutral was very similar to what I see from players.

 

[Deleted member]

Only two Ike mains (and Lycan who will occasionally use Ike but I don't think he did this tournament). In Ryo's case I think he ran into match up inexperience x2: Kome and then Shaky. No clue about SM.

Did Ryuga show up for Corrin? Because if so that's a pretty major blowout. I know Cosmos didn't. Xion beat Wrath but that was about it for them. But the overall lack of Corrin results outside of "maybe Earth" is just furthering my belief that Corrin is mid tier and not high tier. If his MU spread was as good as claimed, he'd have at least one sure fire rep in the top 65. Time to put that thinking away and accept he ain't so great. Because quite frankly even if Ryuga didn't show up I'm pretty sure Corrin had more reps there than all of those characters you mentioned. Possibly combined.

Wario ran into "giant sword character issue" aka Shulk.

Marth took a beating as well considering how many of his reps showed up and how few made top 32.

Bowser... FinalBoss lost to a Ganondorf. Don't know anything beyond that.

Ryo has fought Tremendo Dude before and has played him after quite a bit in friendlies. He doesn't lack MU experience vs. Shulk at all.

Though Dude is merely just a mid level player while Kome is able to viably compete with a lot of the PGR, so a difference is there.

Shulk/Ike is also a pretty even MU anyway.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Ignore the character tags. Anyway, does anyone have Wonderbreads twit longer on the Vash v Pugwest thing?

 

[YerTheBestAROUND]

Consistency and Civil War in the same sentence is an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Nvm, found it:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spo14t

 

[HoSmash4]

How many chars can true combo kill at 20-60 off a stray aerial? ZSS punish game is absurd despite not being the easiest/most consistent to land

 

[Man Li Gi]

Mk, Bayonetta, ryu and a few more.

 

[verbatim]

Anyone with an item, bar BJR.

 

[Das Koopa]

Nvm, found it:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spo14t

haha oh wow **** Pugwest if this is accurate, I'll never root for him again in tournament

Between this and the Wrath/Shope incident I don't like all the grime going around lately.

 

[Frihetsanka]

haha oh wow **** Pugwest if this is accurate, I'll never root for him again in tournament

Vash may have beaten Cringe in pools, but this is really cringe worthy...

Little Mac should've made it to top 96, then. Based on that twitlonger it sounds like Vash beat Pugwest. At the very least, Pugwest should have allowed a rematch. He didn't, and then he went on to lose the next two games in a row anyway.

With that being said, WonderBread should not have been couching mid-set, especially since he was the designated coach.

 

[Wintermelon43]

haha oh wow **** Pugwest if this is accurate, I'll never root for him again in tournament

Between this and the Wrath/Shope incident I don't like all the grime going around lately.

Wait, what was the Wrath incident?

 

[TDK]

Wait, what was the Wrath incident?

So Nairo was holding a sub tournament where the prize was a Switch + Breath of the wild. Wrath, who was not a sub, entered under the tag "Shope" (A player who was a sub) to get a low seeding, and won the tournament and the switch.

Once this was found out, Nairo didn't give him the switch and instead gave it to the second placing player.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

So Nairo was holding a sub tournament where the prize was a Switch + Breath of the wild. Wrath, who was not a sub, entered under the tag "Shope" (A player who was a sub) to get a low seeding, and won the tournament and the switch.

Once this was found out, Nairo didn't give him the switch and instead gave it to the second placing player.

Ah, so that's what happened, that's sinking low if you ask me.

 

[YerTheBestAROUND]

Aaaaaaand ESAM 3-1 Ally

ZeRo, Ally, and Leo are all out of the tournament.

 

[BSP]

haha oh wow **** Pugwest if this is accurate, I'll never root for him again in tournament

Between this and the Wrath/Shope incident I don't like all the grime going around lately.

Don't be so quick to roast Pug about this. If I was in his position, I'd be mad too.

I was playing in loser's quarters last night in a local, Mario vs DK. Some onlookers behind me noticed the DK platform camping me and commented on how he had 9 wind punch available. I wasn't going to jump up there anyway, but their comments caused me to think about risk : reward of jumping up there, and that was indirectly coaching me IMO

It didn't decide the set or anything, but I told them to be careful about what they're saying after that game. The DK player wasn't mad, but had the stakes been higher things could've turned out differently.

If your designated coach breaks the explicitly defined rules (I'm assuming they were defined), then unfortunately you've cheated. I would've preferred a rematch of the disputed game of it were me, but again don't label Pug the bad guy so quickly.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Aaaaaaand ESAM 3-1 Ally

ZeRo, Ally, and Leo are all out of the tournament.

Wait, ESAM actually used Samus...

And won...

Against Ally?

Hyyyyyyype!

 

[Das Koopa]

THE PROPHECY OF RADICAL LARRY WutFace

 

[YerTheBestAROUND]

Link is in Top 8. If you're at home and you're not watching, what's wrong with you?

 

[MistressRemilia]

Well nevermind, for both K9 using Sheik actually ( had the result wrong, my apolgoies )
And T breaking into Top 8 with Link, quite a remarkable achievement.
Link showing off his different pros & assets that make him a character you simply can't sleep on, especially in some matchups where this strong raw damage output & raw kill ability out of neutral exchanges is certainly an enjoyable advantage.

 

[Das Koopa]

Winners Side Top 8

RNG | Dabuz v DMG | Captain Zack
T v FS | Fatality

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Corrin, Ike, Bowser, Wario, Yoshi and Lucas kind of flopped this tournament, being unable to top 64. Corrin and Bowser might show up as secondaries for Earth/ESAM and Nairo respectively, but what on earth happened to the other four?

There was only one Yoshi in attendance (Snoop). And Lucas's best player wasn't even able to make it.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

I swear T is just some crazy Link robot Larry built in his basement
Also, Esam got his first win against Ally and now in top 8

 

[Ropalme1914]

Locus 3-2 Nairo, going to top 8 in losers
That's the best placement Ryu has ever got in a tournament this big, isn't? Also, DK, Falcon and even Link. 2gg is such a great thing that happened to Smash 4.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Kirihara takes out Larry 3-1.

It's nice to see Rosalina performing so well at top level recently. The community hasn't been too nice on her in the past few months.

She's certainly having her day now!

 

[Skeeter Mania]

The interesting fact is that none of these players have won a super major before!

Predictions on winner?

 

[Bowserboy3]

The interesting fact is that none of these players have won a super major before!

Predictions on winner?

I thought that FPS2 qualified as a super major? Kirihara?

And I'm not sure who's going to win, though my mind keeps throwing the names Zack, Kirihara and T at me.

 

[outfoxd]

Inb4 people take the piss out of S4 because of lol inconsistency.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

I thought that FPS2 qualified as a super major? Kirihara?

And I'm not sure who's going to win, though my mind keeps throwing the names Zack, Kirihara and T at me.

All this Rosa rep in this month...

If Dabuz or Kiri were to win (not that I would like that to happen for the former)...

 

[Bowserboy3]

If Dabuz or Kiri were to win (not that I would like that to happen for the former)...

Why's that?

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Why's that?

Boring play.

 

[FullMoon]

I took the day for myself and now I find out that Link, DK, Falcon and Ryu are in the top 8 of Civil War

I feel like I just slept through the apocalypse or something.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Mars 3-0 CaptainZack !

 

[Nidtendofreak]

haha oh wow **** Pugwest if this is accurate, I'll never root for him again in tournament.

I won't comment on the second thing, but on this first bit here on coaching?

Yeah no I'd take the win. I'm playing to win... within the rules. The very second somebody steps outside of those pre-established rules I'm roasting them and taking every single advantage I can. Choose your coach carefully. Coaches, learn to keep your mouth shut once the match starts.

This kind of action is how you actually make sure the rules are enforced and people actually bother to pay attention to them instead of constantly pushing the envelope.

---

Outside of that: very crazy tournament. But I'm uh, not looking forwards to the tier list debates for the next several months. Like at all. Its going to be half full of claims that Link is actually high tier and Samus is the upper part of Mid Tier and that both DK and Falcon need to move to the top of their tiers and just.... ugh its going to be a mess of people jumping to conclusions and not moving from them.

 

[Rizen]

I feel like I just slept through the apocalypse or something.

The year is 2112 and the world is ruled by the priests of the temples of Syrinx. Their great computers fill the hallowed halls.


Seriously, hype about Link in the top 8! I still don't see him as a high tier but this shows he's capable in the right hands. You can't rule out the heavy hitters in SSB4. Link has kill power that has to be respected.