Official 4BR Tier List V3 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[FeelMeUp]

Dabuz and Mr. R have tried to use Bayo and mostly fail to achieve the projected success. Have to give that one a negatory, captain.

Edit: Why have you not spoken about the MK matchup that most Rosas see as 6:4 at best. Why not speak about Marth, Mewtwo, ZSS, or any of the other characters Rosa seems to have trouble with? The other top ~4 characters don't have any matchups as bad as MK Rosa. Nor do they seem to have trouble in as many as she does.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Dabuz and Mr. R have tried to use Bayo and mostly fail to achieve the projected success. Have to give that one a negatory, captain.

Neither Dabuz nor Mr. R have put even a fraction of the time into learning Bayo that they have into their mains.

Having said that, just because I think Bayo is the best character in the game doesn't mean I think she will be the best possible character for every player. Some characters click better for certain people than others.

But I do think there's a strong possibility that at least some of the current top Smash 4 players could achieve better results than ever if they put as much time into Bayo as they have for their current mains.

Bottom line, this is all guesswork to a certain extent. It's just my opinion that, based on the attributes Bayo possesses, if every character could be played as well as they could realistically be played Bayo would be the best character in the game.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

How many players have actually won a major US national? There's ZeRo, Nairo, Dabuz, MKLeo, Abadango, Ally, and ANTi. I think that's literally the complete list.

Also add Larry Lurr (Mexico Saga), Kirihara (FPS2), and Pink Fresh (KTAR Saga).

 

[Iron Kraken]

Also add Larry Lurr (Mexico Saga), Kirihara (FPS2), and Pink Fresh (KTAR Saga).

Mexico Saga wasn't a major. It was basically just SoCal plus Leo and Hyuga.

The KTAR that Pink Fresh won had a handful of top players, but the vast majority of the top talent wasn't there. Again, this was more of a SoCal tournament with a few other notables like Mr. R and Marss.

Kirihara's win at FPS2 was much closer to being legit, because it had an abundance of the world's best talent there. Even if it doesn't count as winning a major, that one was just as impressive.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Mexico Saga wasn't a major. It was basically just SoCal plus Leo and Hyuga.

Need I also mention it being the only time he's ever beaten ZeRo in tournament?

 

[GS3K]

Need I also mention it being the only time he's ever beaten ZeRo in tournament?

Didn't Larry take ZeRo out at CEO 2016?

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Didn't Larry take ZeRo out at CEO 2016?

I guess I should've been more specific.

Not only taking ZeRo out of the tournament, but also winning the whole tournament.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Need I also mention it being the only time he's ever beaten ZeRo in tournament?

I'm not sure what your point is? Yes, he did beat ZeRo, but if you look at the attendance for that tournament it was basically SoCal plus Leo and Hyuga. It was definitely a very nice win, but it was way too thin to be considered a true major.

 

[Jaguar360]

is there any way to watch this?

Yoshidora vs Komo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SZ7kGLH6Cw
Matches in Yoshidora's pool start around 2:02:00 here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/135925892

 

[Das Koopa]

I'm not sure what your point is? Yes, he did beat ZeRo, but if you look at the attendance for that tournament it was basically SoCal plus Leo and Hyuga. It was definitely a very nice win, but it was way too thin to be considered a true major.

to be fair SoCal is the best region in the U.S.

 

[|RK|]

to be fair SoCal is the best region in the U.S.

Tristate would argue with that, I think.

 

[HoSmash4]

to be fair SoCal is the best region in the U.S.

Is it really?

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Tristate would argue with that, I think.

A decent case could be made for the Midwest as well.

 

[Iron Kraken]

to be fair SoCal is the best region in the U.S.

To be fair...

It was not a major!!!! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)

 

[Skeeter Mania]

To be fair...

It was not a major!!!! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)

I'm having a hard time considering what exactly is a major. Inherently speaking, it sounds subjective.

 

[HoSmash4]

Well depends on what you mean by best region. Socal right now has the best exposure and is close to many strong regions e.g japan mexico and west coast. Tristate probably has the best top 10 still.

 

[YerTheBestAROUND]

I'm having a hard time considering what exactly is a major. Inherently speaking, it sounds subjective.

Because other than the obvious ones like Genesis, Big House, and EVO, etc, it is pretty subjective.

 

[Iron Kraken]

I'm having a hard time considering what exactly is a major. Inherently speaking, it sounds subjective.

I don't believe there's a technical definition for it, but in practice a major is a tournament in which the *majority* of the best players are in attendance. Civil War was an extreme case, because 47 of the top 50 PGR were in attendance. A tournament doesn't need quite that many to qualify as a major, but it needs to have a lot of them.

 

[Das Koopa]

I'd say the top 5 regions are Kanto, Kansai, Tristate, SoCal, & Midwest

Spoiler: Kanto

Abadango
KEN
Kameme
tsu
Kirihara
T
Choco
Raito
Brood
Kisha
Nietono
hayato.

Spoiler: SoCal

VoiD
Larry Lurr
Tyrant
Zenyou
Elegant
Falln
Rich Brown
Nicko
Ac
Aarvark
K9sbruce
Charliedaking

Spoiler: Tristate

Nairo
Dabuz
ANTi
Tweek
6WX
Mr. E
Shoyo James
DKwill
False
John Numbers
Vinnie

Spoiler: Kansai

komorikiri
Ranai
HIKARU
9B
ikep
Edge
You3
Ri-ma
Kie

Spoiler: Midwest

ZeRo
Ally
Zinoto
Ned
Ryuga
Tyroy
DarkShad
JJROCKETS
Rayquaza07

Tristate is really top heavy. The thing that really defines a region imo is how deep the skill pool goes and places like Kanto and SoCal have that down on lock better than anybody else. Midwest has been getting way up there, but the only big new breakout from tristate I can think of recently is James.

 

[Wintermelon43]

I thought ZeRo was tristate?

 

[Frihetsanka]

Let's talk about Pikachu () for a bit. Pikachu is a character who could be, in theory, #13 or so, but his results have been somewhat lacking. Is Pikachu secretly this "top of high tier" character with a lot of potential, or is Pikachu a bit worse than many believe?

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Let's talk about Pikachu () for a bit. Pikachu is a character who could be, in theory, #13 or so, but his results have been somewhat lacking. Is Pikachu secretly this "top of high tier" character with a lot of potential, or is Pikachu a bit worse than many believe?

I assume this came into fruition because of CEO Dreamland?

 

[Jaguar360]

I'd say the top 5 regions are Kanto, Kansai, Tristate, SoCal, & Midwest

Spoiler: Kanto

Abadango
KEN
Kameme
tsu
Kirihara
T
Choco
Raito
Brood
Kisha
Nietono
hayato.

Spoiler: SoCal

VoiD
Larry Lurr
Tyrant
Zenyou
Elegant
Falln
Rich Brown
Nicko
Ac
Aarvark
K9sbruce
Charliedaking

Spoiler: Tristate

Nairo
Dabuz
ANTi
Tweek
6WX
Mr. E
Shoyo James
DKwill
False
John Numbers
Vinnie

Spoiler: Kansai

komorikiri
Ranai
HIKARU
9B
ikep
Edge
You3
Ri-ma
Kie

Spoiler: Midwest

ZeRo
Ally
Zinoto
Ned
Ryuga
Tyroy
DarkShad
JJROCKETS
Rayquaza07

Tristate is really top heavy. The thing that really defines a region imo is how deep the skill pool goes and places like Kanto and SoCal have that down on lock better than anybody else. Midwest has been getting way up there, but the only big new breakout from tristate I can think of recently is James.

Tweek, False, NAKAT, and some other Leap of Faith members are gonna be Midwest soon, but I still think the top 5 won't change much from that. Also a bit nitpicky but you probably meant Corrin or Marth instead of Sheik for John Numbers' secondary.

Let's talk about Pikachu () for a bit. Pikachu is a character who could be, in theory, #13 or so, but his results have been somewhat lacking. Is Pikachu secretly this "top of high tier" character with a lot of potential, or is Pikachu a bit worse than many believe?

I mean ESAM just top 8'd a major and Rideae got top 32 beating saj and Fatality as well. It's pretty clear that lack of top level rep + ESAM inconsistently is what has been holding Pikachu back results-wise.

Like he loses to at the very worst (and imo it's only Mario, Ness, G&W, M2, Rosa for his bad matchups) which would make him like bottom of high tier at worst. Not losing to is a really good trait to have. He does have the Sheik problem of hating rage which can also make Bowser/DK/Zard annoying, but it should be clear that Pika's really good.

 

[Lord Dio]

Is Florida/Florida and the neighboring states a region? Because that could be a strong contender for sixth best region (Fatality, Scatt, Esam, Samsora, Day, m2k, Salem, Cashmere)

 

[TDK]

I thought ZeRo was tristate?

ZeRo moved to the chicago area recently.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

. Socal right now has the best exposure and is close to many strong regions e.g japan mexico and west coast.

Didnt know the west coast was close to the west coast and the pacific ocean didnt exist

 

[Frihetsanka]

I assume this came into fruition because of CEO Dreamland?

A reasonable assumption, but no, the reason I bring it up is that somone put Pikachu at #23 in their tier list, when Pikachu could be like #13. This makes Pikachu a character worth discussing.

Personally, I think Pikachu is somewhere around #13-15, though one could easily make the case that characters like Villager and Toon Link also have breakout performances from time to time.

 

[TDK]

ANTi posted his top 10 players on Twitter earlier.

1st: ZeRo
2nd: Dabuz
3rd: Nairo and others
4th: MKLeo
5th: Mr. R
6th: Ally
7th: Abadango
8th: Komorikiri
9th: Captain Zack
10th: Marss

His actual twitter post was somewhat different (Nairo and Dabuz were swapped, Larry/VoiD tied over Marss) but in several comments he said he would put Dabuz above Nairo and when asked about Marss he said he'd put him above Larry/VoiD. He also fully acknowledges he's not top 10 this season.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

I'd say the top 5 regions are Kanto, Kansai, Tristate, SoCal, & Midwest

Spoiler: Kanto

Abadango
KEN
Kameme
tsu
Kirihara
T
Choco
Raito
Brood
Kisha
Nietono
hayato.

Spoiler: SoCal

VoiD
Larry Lurr
Tyrant
Zenyou
Elegant
Falln
Rich Brown
Nicko
Ac
Aarvark
K9sbruce
Charliedaking

Spoiler: Tristate

Nairo
Dabuz
ANTi
Tweek
6WX
Mr. E
Shoyo James
DKwill
False
John Numbers
Vinnie

Spoiler: Kansai

komorikiri
Ranai
HIKARU
9B
ikep
Edge
You3
Ri-ma
Kie

Spoiler: Midwest

ZeRo
Ally
Zinoto
Ned
Ryuga
Tyroy
DarkShad
JJROCKETS
Rayquaza07

Tristate is really top heavy. The thing that really defines a region imo is how deep the skill pool goes and places like Kanto and SoCal have that down on lock better than anybody else. Midwest has been getting way up there, but the only big new breakout from tristate I can think of recently is James.

Assuming you're also counting non-PGR players, couldn't you also add Raptor to Tristate?

 

[Rizen]

I'd say the top 5 regions are Kanto, Kansai, Tristate, SoCal, & Midwest

Spoiler: Midwest

ZeRo
Ally
Zinoto
Ned
Ryuga
Tyroy
DarkShad
JJROCKETS
Rayquaza07

Midwest has been getting way up there, but the only big new breakout from tristate I can think of recently is James.

What geographic size is the midwest? I know Ally's from Canada and ZeRo's in Chicago IL. This area sounds huge.

 

[TDK]

What geographic size is the midwest? I know Ally's from Canada and ZeRo's in Chicago IL. This area sounds huge.

Ally's living in Michigan.

 

[verbatim]

Ally lives in Michigan for half of the year.

There's a slightly different grouping of states that's used for the geographical midwest, but I would argue that the active Smash scene's with traveling players that make up the midwest is...

Michigan
Illinois
Minnesota
Ohio
Wisconsin
Indiana
Kentucky
Missouri
Iowa
Someone correct me if I missed something, I'm mainly going off of states that have sent people to Midwest Mayhem's (in Illinois).

Canada is generally considered a seperate region

 

[Rizen]

Ally lives in Michigan for half of the year.

Oh. Thanks.

 

[outfoxd]

More than half, i think he's here like 10 to 11 months a year. Not sure if he straight immigrated or not.

 

[Vyrnx]

FL and GA are pretty separate Smash regions (even FL itself has pretty isolated sub regions). GA is a fairly strong region with some of the best players of many non top tier characters. Louisiana is too far from either FL or GA to be grouped with them imo.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

Yeah as far as the South East goes Florida is pretty much it's own thing and then everyone else is separate with some mingling here and there.

As far as Smash regions go in the US the major ones would be SoCal, NorCal, Midwest, Tristate, MDVA, Florida and Texas. Not saying you got nothing going on anywhere else but these areas see the most activity.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Ally lives in Michigan for half of the year.

There's a slightly different grouping of states that's used for the geographical midwest, but I would argue that the active Smash scene's with traveling players that make up the midwest is...

Michigan
Illinois
Minnesota
Ohio
Wisconsin
Indiana
Kentucky
Missouri
Iowa
Someone correct me if I missed something, I'm mainly going off of states that have sent people to Midwest Mayhem's (in Illinois).

Canada is generally considered a seperate region

You forgot Kansas, Nebraska and the Dakotas albeit less so.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Ally lives in Michigan for half of the year.

There's a slightly different grouping of states that's used for the geographical midwest, but I would argue that the active Smash scene's with traveling players that make up the midwest is...

Michigan
Illinois
Minnesota
Ohio
Wisconsin
Indiana
Kentucky
Missouri
Iowa
Someone correct me if I missed something, I'm mainly going off of states that have sent people to Midwest Mayhem's (in Illinois).

Canada is generally considered a seperate region

Geographically speaking, Kentucky is not considered a Midwestern state.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

BTW ANTI recently tweeted hus own personal list of the current top 10 Smash 4 players currently taking in results and overall skill.

He made several changes so I will just put the final list

1. ZeRo
2. Dabuz
3. Nario
4. MKLeo
5. Mr.R
6. Ally
7. Abadango
8. Komokiri
9. Captian Zack
10. Marss

Note. Larry Lurr and Void where his other potential choices for #10. But ANTi decided to go with Marss at the end


So what does anyone think of ANTI'S picks?

 

[The-Technique]

Solid list for the most part, but personally I wouldn't place Abadango in top 10 given his somewhat lackluster placings as of lately. Maybe VoiD as 10th?