Official 4BR Tier List V3 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[TheRabidChipmunk]

I think Yoshi's playstyle is underdeveloped and that a lot of players, even most of the ones who are deemed to be a high-level Yoshi, play him pretty badly for the long run.

Most Yoshi player do well against people who don't know the match-up but get completely destroyed from people who do.

There is a huge difference in playstyles you can attempt as mid-level and high to top level.
The playstyle you can use to beat mid-level players gets demolished in top level play. I've seen a lot of Yoshis who have this exact problem.

The other problem is wifi playstyle vs. offline playstyle. Yoshi is a monster on wifi, his combos and punish windows are at a range where the few frames cut of your reaction time by wifi make an extreme difference.
A lot of Yoshis are stuck in that wifi playstyle that doesn't work offline. It straight up doesn't work.
We have a Yoshi in germany who wins a lot of wifi tournaments. Even takes sets of our very best players. But he drowed in pools one tournament and almost ran 0-2 in another.

So then what would you say is the optimal way to play Yoshi at high-to-top level play?

 

[ShadowGamerOmega]

Ness being a mid tier saddens me, but at least Mewtwo jumped up a spot.

 

[Heracr055]

I agree that this formatting (less tiers) looks cleaner than the previous list. I have very few gripes with this list.
I kinda like where Ryu is at. With the way the meta may head (the presumed rise of Lucario), he's in a good position to be a roadblock to him.
I'm looking forward to see where Greninja goes from here; he's up a tier but down Some places from the previous list. He had his highest placing at Frostbite and hopefully that'll encourage people to explore the character and advance Greninja's meta.
I think people are sleeping a bit on ZSS, and this was very apparent in the last few discussions of the previous thread. We'll see how things work out for her in the coming months.

 

[money1246]

@Emblem Lord During Frostbite, Tsu used Ryu (another Ryu beating Shiek...). Trela also said a couple months ago that he has begun to pick up Lucario again instead of using Mewtwo. What is it that makes players want to use the Ryu Lucario combo? What does that say about the player's personality and playstyle?

 

[L9999]

Ness being a mid tier saddens me, but at least Mewtwo jumped up a spot.

Well, Ness has flaws that make him earn that spot, and the other characters moved up for meta advancements and continous results.

 

[ShadowGamerOmega]

Well, Ness has flaws that make him earn that spot, and the other characters moved up for meta advancements and continous results.

Oh I completely understand why he's ranked there, but it just kinda gives me a bitter taste since he was my main for two years and I just recently switched to Mewtwo.

 

[Yonder]

S and A tier look fantastic. I'd swap Rosa and ZSS though because Rosa hasn't made waves in a while, and Dabuz is drastically decreasing her usage.

Hate to bandwagon but Corrin is ridiculously high also. What player base besides Ryuga and Cosmos does he have? Do these players regularly make top 16? (Not sure, but they should at least have a few notable top 8s for being right next to the top tier.) I think Corrin's lackluster neutral and poor mobility really will be exploited as time goes on. He has an amazing button in side B and a great counter.

Ness and Bowser should be behind Luigi. Has Nairo made a splash with Bowser again? A non solo splash compared to Elegant's major 13th placings? Lately Bowser seems to get thrashes when he is whipped out by Nairo. I can see Olimar on high tier before Peach. Great results from Shuton placing well in the top 8s and Dabuz must be making the switch for a good reason. He's a shadow of his Brawl self, but a big shadow. I think Robin and Rob have proven themselves above the Pits...i have little faith in the Pits. Balance is pretty futile when the meta revolved around either a good camp game or explosiveness currently.

No complaints about low and bottom.

I think Middle is such a massive mesh that it's hard to accurately place everyone. We really do have a massive mid tier in this game that can only grow bigger, sucking up low tiers up to Pac Man over a long course of time. Samus I think would be the first to escape though, her buffs do show and has had a few notable results like a lot of bottom mid tiers.

Good tier list. I think C tier is a bit of a murky bog but otherwise, pretty solid.

 

[Browny]

Official Smash Wii U Backroom List V3 (Wii U Version 1.1.6)

-TOP-
S:
A:
-HIGH-
B:
-MID-
C: ()
D:
-LOW-
E:
F: [][]

Text Version

7 tiers...

approximately following a normal distribution...

Bayonetta and Falco where they belong, Falcon approaching mid tier, Ryu out of top 10 and Mewtwo in it...

ITS BEAUTIFUL. I don't even care about minor gripes. It just feels SO MUCH BETTER when you can look at a characters like doctor mario/ike, robin and corrin and them only being 1 tier apart. Having fewer tiers makes it so much less controversial.

 

[Lord Dio]

Very pleased with this new list.
I know that a couple months back, there was a very small spike, but a spike nonetheless, of Charizards, with Zard placing in top 5 in tournaments for what i think was a week in one of the last months of 2016. What else earned Charizard such a large rise?
Also, would it be fair to say that Shulk rose a little thanks in part to the efforts of Nicko and Kome? They appear to be putting in a lot of work with Shulk, and doing well with him.

 

[L9999]

Very pleased with this new list.
I know that a couple months back, there was a very small spike, but a spike nonetheless, of Charizards, with Zard placing in top 5 in tournaments for what i think was a week in one of the last months of 2016. What else earned Charizard such a large rise?
Also, would it be fair to say that Shulk rose a little thanks in part to the efforts of Nicko and Kome? They appear to be putting in a lot of work with Shulk, and doing well with him.

Not only Nicko and Kome, but also Darkwolf, Soronie, M, Masha, and Tremendo Dude. Shulk's entire playerbase pushed their limits to make people respect Shulk as a competent character, and that is impressive.

 

[Deleted member]

Not only Nicko and Kome, but also Darkwolf, Soronie, M, Masha, and Tremendo Dude. Shulk's entire playerbase pushed their limits to make people respect Shulk as a competent character, and that is impressive.

Just want to clear stuff up with this post.

- Soronie has been inactive for a while recently due to school. Getting 6th on NorCal PR when she was though is pretty nice, and she tended to perform well in her region. Outside that though her placements at majors are pretty poor, save for a 49th at Abadango Saga where she eliminated Samsora.

- Tremendo Dude tends to drown at majors whenever he goes (97th at EVO is alright, 97th at Smash Con 2016, 129th at CEO, 129th at G4 are ech). He's much moreso a better labber/teacher than a player.

- Masha comains MK alongside Shulk now, he doesn't pop up as often as he used to but he still puts in the work.

It's very nice to see how far the character has come, and it makes me happy to see the 4BR see it as well.

 

[Mario766]

Still advocating Ike low tier.


Can we go back to Pre-San Brawl days when Ike won all low tier money.

 

[AusJJV]

This tier list is SO much better. It definitely reflects the past six months really well. I do have a few minor gripes, which aren't that bad in the first place:

• being pretty overrated, unless they took Cosmos' performances in online tournaments (which he has won the PG Key tournaments). Yes s/he does have "potential", but honestly I'd rather have Corrin mid to bottom of B tier.
• Overrated just a bit. I can understand the potential but bottom of A tier is a bit too much. I'd honestly just put him a couple spots down, but we'll see. It's not really that much.
• and below . Just something really minor but again, not that big of a deal. Even if Bowser is only a secondary, Ness' results are relatively slightly worse.
• I'm gonna be careful with this one, since I don't know much about him. It's just that I'd put him bottom of C Tier at the moment. Honestly, I can see Yoshi being higher in the future, and better results are possible. Just for this moment, I really don't see that much for this character in relation to this tier list.

But other than that, this tier list is actually really good. The low/bottom tier especially is much better, and mid tier will be debatable as always (although much better). Even then, if the specific characters aren't correct in their spots, they're all in their imo, respective tiers (except for , who just doesn't have the same results as other S and A Tiers, but is still very good).

 

[Chalice]

I think the only gripe I have with the new list is the top tier. Diddy and Bayonetta should swap spots as well as Cloud and Sheik. Cloud is the worst out of the S-tier but is still better than the tier below him.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

So in some amount of seriousness, beyond me wanting to set fire to puppies over Corrin's placement:

I'm neutral on Ryu's placement. Top of high tier would have been better maybe, but if you wanna stick him on the bottom of top instead for his psychological game I don't particularly mind.

ZSS not in top 10 does not feel right at all. I'd probably go ZSS, Rosalina, Mewtwo, Marth for that stretch.

Cloud over Sheik is weird, but understandable so -shrugs-

Just... take Corrin's spot, change the letter beside him from "B" to "C". Fix'd. He's a great mid tier... but he's a mid tier.

Put Lucina at the top of B. Lucario's spot obviously would have been higher if the list had been delayed slightly so I'll leave that one alone. Toon Link and Falcon should be farther ahead though, and Peach should be down in C. Probably right behind Corrin. I do not see her surviving a meta with Marth/Lucina on the rise well.

Really, I kinda think part of B and part of C should have been combined together into their own tier between those two current ones. That's where I'd throw Peach, Ness, Bowser, Luigi, MegaMan, DK and Corrin (not in that order).

Robin should have been higher, with ROB, Pit, Lucas, and Yoshi below him. Frankly you could argue Yoshi at least should have been in the next tier down as well. Maybe Pit as well.

To me if you ain't moving the characters mentioned above down, Ike and Wario should have been tacked onto C tier and then the rest of D should have moved down into Low Tier, with Palutena, Roy, Charizard added to the list. Maybe Samus.

---

But really, everything outside of Corrin, Robin, Peach, and Lucina are mainly nick-picks from me. Overall reasonably happy with this list.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Very pleased with this new list.
I know that a couple months back, there was a very small spike, but a spike nonetheless, of Charizards, with Zard placing in top 5 in tournaments for what i think was a week in one of the last months of 2016. What else earned Charizard such a large rise?
Also, would it be fair to say that Shulk rose a little thanks in part to the efforts of Nicko and Kome? They appear to be putting in a lot of work with Shulk, and doing well with him.

He spiked recently as a pocket counter-pick to cloud, specifically cloud. Charizard literally has the best tools of a mid tier to low tier to fight him.

Outside of that, Shapryzard is still top 3 in his region using solo zard in the Dominican republic.

Also in result, most players agree he's not bottom 5, he is at bottom of mid tier at best, imo, but he still is useful in competitive play and has traits like fast ground speed and huge damage with knock-back on one read to help him a lot. With Cloud those straits matter a lot, you have huge hitboxs that actually challenge his and you edgegard him like no other. Flamethrower to Dsmash is a stock without limit.

Charizard need to prove he can to better than be a counter pick to cloud to be better than what he is.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

Charizard's placement is a lot more fair this time around, but I still feel like he's better than where he's at right now.
Honestly he and Wario should trade places, Wario's gameplan is based on a single bull**** option while Charizard is a much more balanced character overall with tools for a lot more situations. Wario is also one of the few characters that I can say Charizard has more representation from

 

[Nathan Richardson]

^ this, I fully agree, charizard has many tools that help him in neutral including flamethrower, jab, not to mention his tilts and the super armor on his other specials. He doesn't have to centralize his gameplan around a single option. Not to mention his edgeguarding is phenomenal against a lot of the cast but especially cloud. He just feels a touch too low on the list for being essentially a more punishable but more offensively balanced version of bowser. (yes yes I know that's a ridiculous comparison but you have to admit both bowser and zard have a unique special in fire breath and flamethrower that work in similar ways. Someone can correct me in fact I WANT to be corrected but it just feels that way to me)

 

[ぱみゅ]

Okay so.... The final result is very interesting.
The top 4 is pretty much undisputed.
The A Tier can have some minor shuffles but it is overall fine.
As for the rest, I kind of understand why Corrin is so high in the list: she's possibly the most threatening character out of the Top 12, has one of the best buttons in the entire game with the Instapin and the second best counter. Very anti-meta.

Now, I do not know how much I am allowed to say this, but I'll go ahead anyway:
A lot of the Japanese votes were very wild and had a lot of outliers from the "standard" positions.
However, most of them seemed to have some coincidences that seem to have affected the final result:
-Sonic was generally #1 or #2.
-Kirby was bottom tier for most of them.
-Robin and Wario were very low, too.
-Pikachu was in the middle of the mid tier.
-Luigi had possibly the most extreme deviation (and possibly can provide a reason behind his final position in the list), he mostly was present at the lower portion of the Mid Tier.

I am not sure if I can pinpoint other more impacting group of votes, but those really struck me for some reason.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Now, I do not know how much I am allowed to say this, but I'll go ahead anyway:
A lot of the Japanese votes were very wild and had a lot of outliers from the "standard" positions.
However, most of them seemed to have some coincidences that seem to have affected the final result:

-Robin and Wario were very low, too.

Everyone who put Yoshi, ROB, and the Pits above Robin, get together and explain why.

Single file, please.

ヨシ、ロボット、ピットをリフレよりも上に置いた人は一緒に集まり、理由を説明します。

単一ファイルでお願いします。


Fair enough on Sonic though. Ken's a beast.

 

[Floor]

Charizard's placement is a lot more fair this time around, but I still feel like he's better than where he's at right now.
Honestly he and Wario should trade places, Wario's gameplan is based on a single bull**** option while Charizard is a much more balanced character overall with tools for a lot more situations. Wario is also one of the few characters that I can say Charizard has more representation from

For once i can agree; not to mention Charizard has a better MU spread imo. There's a case being made that Zard goes even against non-Cloud swordies while Wario get's shut out pretty hard by swords. Not sure I'd call Charizard more balanced but he's amazing at some things while Wario is amazing at nothing really.

 

[ぱみゅ]

ヨシ、ロボット、ピットをリフレよりも上に置いた人は一緒に集まり、理由を説明します。

単一ファイルでお願いします。


Fair enough on Sonic though. Ken's a beast.

You misspelled ヨッシー and ルフレ.
But I guess their meta is very different.

 

[Deathcarter]

I think is placed one tier too low and should be at the opposite end of high tier but this tier list looks a lot more solid than the previous 2 efforts.

 

[Das Koopa]

WNF 1.3

komorikiri 2-1 Nicko
NAKAT 2-0 Rich Brown
Zenyou 2-0 VoiD
Elegant 2-1 Ranai
komorikiri 3-0 NAKAT
Ranai 2-1 VoiD

 

[The-Technique]

Holy ****, Komo got 3-0'd by Elegant.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I personally don't agree with Bayo being first.
It's pure theorycrafting to put her in first. She doesn't have the results to back up the claim, that she's the best character in the game. It's solely based on theory

Bayonetta is #1 purely based on 'B tier players' upsetting established top players, and the sheer quantity of strong Bayonetta players.

Can she win a Supermajor? This is yet to be proven. Her prowess and success on the top 8 stage is somewhat underwhelming.

I am very much in the same vein of these two quotes; I am glad there are others that do think this way.

I have no problem with Bayonetta being the best character sometime down the line in the future, but as of now, right now, the metagame has no reason for her to be the best character other than people being scared of her and putting her at the top.

As mentioned, her top 8 supermajor results are much to be desired, but please remember that it is no meme that SDI does indeed make it much harder for her to perform. Remember ESAM at UGC? I do. People like to dismiss/forget this, but this is actually a prime example that there is indeed relevant counterplay to the character, counterplay that makes her noticabley struggle. The good thing about this is that this counterplay is that it isn't character/MU specific; any character can do this. Whether people like to forget about it because it's ESAM (ESAM opinions boiz), I don't know, but it's there.

But right here, right now, Bayonetta has no reason to be the best character in the game outside of people putting her there out of fear.

Again, sometime down the line, when she proves to be the best character, by winning a few supermajors, I'll gladly accept her as the best character in the game with open arms. Not yet though, certainly not yet.

Samus is almost mid-tier

THIS. EXCITES. ME.

I'd swap Rosa and ZSS though because Rosa hasn't made waves in a while, and Dabuz is drastically decreasing her usage

Actually, while Rosalina hasn't outright won anything for a big while (Dabuz did win a relatively big German event a couple of weeks back with solo Rosalina; in fact, there was a German Rosalina that came 3rd as well IIRC), she commonly places top 8 at most events (that aren't minor weeklies) across the globe.

And we cannot drop her down because Dabuz said he might be dropping her, because as of yet, this has not happened - in fact, it's been more the opposite; Dabuz saying he'd be decreasing his usage of her because it's hard for him/doesn't enjoy her, yet at Frostbite, he went the vast majority as Rosalina (there were a couple of games he used Olimar; just for one game in his top 16 run, against Salem, after he won the first two games with Rosalina, which I will add is supposedly a losing MU), and he was visibly happy with his performance with her. He has also notably improved his game when he's in the 13 seconds without Luma, which likely helped.

I'm happy with 8th place for Rosalina personally. I think it's an accurate representation of the character's tools and representation in the current metagame.

I do agree that ZSS is a bit too low, though. I would personally put her on either side of Rosalina. Both of these would make sense for both characters IMO.

---

Overall though, this is a pretty solid list - minor gripes aside (because those minor gripes would still be move X character a space or two; Marth is an example who I would move down a spot, Bayonetta down a spot or two etc.), this is probably the best list so far.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see Lucario rise a few spots, especially when you consider that Frostbite was not included in the voting. This starts a good trend for the character.

I am even more pleased to see Peach rise, too! I have been using Peach a little more these days, and it makes me happy to see opinions on her improving, because mine too, has improved.

And yes, SAMUS IS NEARLY MID TIER!

 

[Das Koopa]

Zenyou 2-0 Rich Brown
Elegant 3-0 komorikiri
Ranai 3-2 Zenyou

 

[FeelMeUp]

Does any other character have 2 top players that would make an unstoppable force if they blended their tools together?
I know the players have been talking about it a bit. While sitting and studying games a bit more(while I should be practicing...) I've come unearthed another layer of how dichotomous VoiD and Mr. R's playstyles are.

Mr. R utilizes her broken defensive options to play a hyper aggressive game that gives the opponent no room to breathe. Constant dash>shields at proper tipper fair spacing so he can react to your dash grab attempts and still start combos or dash away to safety. Difficult to predict rolls on whiffed grabs. Abusing Sheik's myriad of lightning quick OoS options to start massive combos from any percent. Using shield at the ledge to cover all options but one. Can rarely punish any of his aerials because of how well-spaced they are.
There's a lot of very safe shield-based aggression that gives characters with bad data/poor grabs no room to breathe. If your character can't deal with dash>shield>fair OoS safely he usually destroys you as the pace spirals out of your control.

VoiD uses her incredible faux-offensive, passive pressure in neutral to whiff punish. Everything. Proper needle usage to always force you into that zone he wants you in WITHOUT making the mistake of shooting too often and forgoing stage control. Has excellent recovery and landing mixups so that he virtually never gets hit while offstage, much less gimped. The minute you do get hit he'll make you feel it for the next minute of the game.
Uses her unusually high walk speed to play a SF-esque ground game with jabs, ftilt and crouch.

Seeing how high this character can go while already having top ~3-4 results makes it impossible to think of any other as the best.

 

[Rizen]

He spiked recently as a pocket counter-pick to cloud, specifically cloud. Charizard literally has the best tools of a mid tier to low tier to fight him.

I can see that.

ヨシ、ロボット、ピットをリフレよりも上に置いた人は一緒に集まり、理由を説明します。

単一ファイルでお願いします。

Lol.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Elegant 3-0 komorikiri

Let's discuss Luigi a bit. Should Luigi have been high tier? His results have been very good lately, and Elegant's MU chart is pretty optimistic, certainly good enough to qualify for high tier. It is, of course, possible that Elegant is being too optimistic in his MU chart, and while his results have been good neither he nor Mr. ConCon have gotten top 8 at any major recently (unless you count 2GGT: Abadango Saga as recent, I suppose).

 

[Bowserboy3]

Let's discuss Luigi a bit. Should Luigi have been high tier? His results have been very good lately, and Elegant's MU chart is pretty optimistic, certainly good enough to qualify for high tier. It is, of course, possible that Elegant is being too optimistic in his MU chart, and while his results have been good neither he nor Mr. ConCon have gotten top 8 at any major recently (unless you count 2GGT: Abadango Saga as recent, I suppose).

I think Luigi being high tier is very much a possibility.

Then again, you can argue that for a couple other characters in one way or another; Bowser, Olimar are a couple of examples.

IIRC, Mr Concon recently said Luigi could be top 12... I certainly don't agree with that. But, I would be happy with say, expanding the high tier a little to make room for a few characters; the ones I stated, including Luigi of course.

 

[The-Technique]

I think Luigi the character can compete at top level (3-0 Komo, made short work of his Sonic too). However, certain matchups require a LOT of patience, and at tonight's WNF you could see Elegant getting very mentally exhausted by Komo's clean spacing and ledge guarding, which was why Elegant got 3-0'd after the bracket reset.

 

[Rizen]

Let's discuss Luigi a bit. Should Luigi have been high tier? His results have been very good lately, and Elegant's MU chart is pretty optimistic, certainly good enough to qualify for high tier. It is, of course, possible that Elegant is being too optimistic in his MU chart, and while his results have been good neither he nor Mr. ConCon have gotten top 8 at any major recently (unless you count 2GGT: Abadango Saga as recent, I suppose).

I think Luigi should have been lower high tier. The question is: is elegant carrying Luigi or is Luigi actually that good? Elegant's amazing but imo Luigi's combo game, gimping, freakishly good frame data and fireballs to help get in are better than mid tier tools. Yes he has a distinct weakness but it's not crippling at all and once he does get in he wrecks.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I think Luigi the character can compete at top level (3-0 Komo, made short work of his Sonic too). Certain matchups require a LOT of patience, and at tonight's WNF you could see Elegant getting very mentally exhausted by Komo's clean spacing and ledge guarding, which was why Elegant got 3-0'd after the bracket reset.

Who did Komo use against Elegant?

 

[The-Technique]

Honestly whenever I read (x player carries x character) that statement always rubs me the wrong way. Yes, that player carries the majority of the character's results...but couldn't that also be because no other player has managed to master the character to that level? It's like saying Diddy is carried by Zero since he's the only player that consistently wins majors.

Who did Komo use against Elegant?

Cloud.

 

[Luigi player]

I think Luigi should have been lower high tier. The question is: is elegant carrying Luigi or is Luigi actually that good? Elegant's amazing but imo Luigi's combo game, gimping, freakishly good frame data and fireballs to help get in are better than mid tier tools. Yes he has a distinct weakness but it's not crippling at all and once he does get in he wrecks.

People've been sleeping on Luigi for ages. It was about time he got in great results in the US.

The character does have his problems and some annoying MUs but overall he's pretty amazing.

As long as you can do the jumpless cyclone of course. If not he's kinda trash.

 

[Rizen]

Honestly whenever I read (x player carries x character) that statement always rubs me the wrong way. Yes, that player carries the majority of the character's results...but couldn't that also be because no other player has managed to master the character to that level? It's like saying Diddy is carried by Zero since he's the only player that consistently wins majors.

Have you ever seen competitive smash 64? This god-like player Isia could win with low tier and any character really. I see what you're saying but sometimes an incredible player really does carry a character.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxmW1KkMDj8

Ranai and early in the meta might be another example.


But like I said, is good enough to be high tier without Elegant carrying him.

 

[Das Koopa]

I feel like context is important here. Komorikiri won the tournament by double eliminating Elegant 3-2 then a very swift and solid 3-0. He was clearly just caught off-guard since Japan has no Luigis on Elegant's level but he quickly adapted and likely would've won 3-1 and 3-0 had be not wasted a game in their second set trying Sonic. Komo adapted to completely download Elegant after 2 sets.

 

[Guido65]

My thoughts on the new tier list:

: I feel is too high right now. His results aren't exactly that stellar for where he is. The lower end of high tier would fit better if you ask me. Note that I don't think he's bad per say but corrin is sort of becoming a new pikachu in theory vs results. The theory behind corrin is incredible but the results aren't proving his theory. Plus to me corrin is the most overrated character potential wise.

:Ness is ranked perfectly although he shouldn't be above olimar(by that I mean olimar should move to high tier and Ness should stay where he is). He might be able to move higher in the future if the Ness mains travel and go to tours but for now I think he is fine where he is.

:He's ranked perfectly where he is and I could see him going to upper mid in the future but low mid tier is justified for now.

:She is 3 spots too low and should be ranked #1. Sheik is still clearly the best character imo.I think this because she's the safest character in the game besides maybe and she has no losing mus and a relatively small pool of even mus(her even mus iirc are diddy m2 and mario). These combined with her immensely oppressive neutral amazing disadvantage state and very strong advantage state make her the best in the game. Part of my post from the old thread also had reasons why I think she's the best.

Sheik is easily the most versatile character in the game and most likely has the most potential to branch off into different playstyles. Her versatility is due to the sheer number of options she has at any given moment and the fact sheik has an option for mostly anything and excels at the 3 m's in a fighting game: mobility mind games and mixups

:While I don't think that highly of pit putting him below dk bowser yoshi and Ness is underrating him a bit. He should be in the low end of high tier.

 

[Das Koopa]

Bizzaro Flame is coming to Smash 4 . He's said he wants to focus on Smash 4 temporarily. He'll be at Civil War.

He's a bit of a Melee legend (used to be ranked 90-100 in Melee before going on break) so watch out, I guess, especially if he's focusing on the character. If there's potential for Ganondorf, he'd certainly be somebody to really show it.