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Upper mid tier. Her camping ironically is weak because laggy projectiles but her burst and combo games are great. Charge shot is a scary kill option and her frame data is very impressive for a character with that range and mobility. Like Envoy said, she has a slow grab that makes dealing with shields hard and while good, Samus is outshined by better characters.
I think so. I remember that someone that MK was one her worst MUs due to this, even after the uair nerf. Samus's midrange game can help keep MK in check though the MU is still very skewed to MK (though I don't know much about either characters so I may be wrong).
She needs better buttons up close. She's dominant at mid-range vs most of the cast and can set herself up nicely to play at that range against a majority of the cast but when she can't set up her gameplan she gets mercilessly bullied.
I am no expert at Smash Brothers, but I will mention Ryu for you. ( Please do not get steamed at me and criticize me If I make some kind of mistake or something... )
Scrolls over to MU list. Yeah IcyMist has MK as one of Samus' worst MUs
Only even or slight loss to Cloud Diddy Bayo Sheik Rosa, but loses hard to Duck Hunt and Greninja? That's crazy, either Samus is top 10 or we have another case of "strange-character-opinion"-itis.Scrolls over to MU list. Yeah IcyMist has MK as one of Samus' worst MUs
("Sammy", damnit Gandrayda)
A lot of these charts, even by good players are pretty wack. Lord Mix has Bowser with 4 losing MUs, Ven thinks Zelda goes even with or beats 2/3ths the cast, don't get me started on ESAM's.
While seemingly optimistic (especially the Diddy MU) it looks more like the spread of a top 20 character, moreso than top 10. Way too many losing MUs and three hard counters seems pretty rough actually.
Samus's weaknesses typically involve the fact that she's not very good at zoning. That said, you shouldn't just be running into her. Charge Shot is frame 3 while she's charging it, so it's usually more effective to get her to stop charging before rushing her down.
if you have another projectile that's fast and can disrupt charging, it's really useful in the mu. Also gaining stage control is really important.
I always give my thanks to kind people, it can be really useful for those annoying For Glory Samus types players. Thanks!Samus's weaknesses typically involve the fact that she's not very good at zoning. That said, you shouldn't just be running into her. Charge Shot is frame 3 while she's charging it, so it's usually more effective to get her to stop charging before rushing her down.
Characters with reflectors and good burst range punishes make it riskier for her to mixup grab/charge shot/etc. That's one of the reasons Fox is horrible - then you take his juggles into account and it can be absolutely miserable for her.
For specific and personal MU advice, consider asking the Samus boards or Samus Discord. It'd be much more useful than what we can get into here
also, sometimes the best thing to do is to play the character that troubles you the most. you'll gain a lot more insight that way.
Your welcome, it's just this chat is very active + I try to get in the conversation with the others to make interesting claims or to support one another, like what everyone else does in here. This chat is probably the most interesting one so far in my opinion. Thanks for your recommendation, I will give it a try!
Wifi Samus is imo harder than offline. FG has questionable players and connections. You can probably improve more here:
Right when I read this post, Mr. R steamrolled Tyroy 3-1. So, uh, yeah.
3-1 ZeRo
I feel like I have to preface this by saying I'm a fan of both players... But I actually don't feel as bad if he SDI'd up, high-key.according to captain zack, zero SDI'd upward causing his own death
still though...
's hitbubbles are freaking HUGE; upB beat's Link's Dair. Her Uair is like Ganon's in size. She doesn't have cut and paste combos all the time but always has a strong advantage state. She can side/upB twice and doesn't freefall. Watch game 2 of Raito vs Captain Zach. Raito does escape several times but can't punish Bayo. Then at 5:52 bayo side Bs out of a disadvantaged state, combos a few times, drops for a split second as a read, and proceeds to kill off the top with upB>Uair. This is the true potential of Bayo. She doesn't need 100% true combos when she can turn disadvantage into an easy read and react kill chain off the top at almost any %. She also has Fair with optional hits and the best recovery in the game for side kills. or think she needs to be banned or have rules made against her but do find her annoying. I think the character design is poor and over-tuned. She has so many things going for her. Bullet arts that can't be reflected and can extend most of her attacks. Other attacks with variable commitment like Fair having optional hits. Taunts don't matter but the whole point of taunting is to make yourself vulnerable as a middle finger to the opponent; they shouldn't be cancelable. A supposed weakness in slow startup largely negated by a frame 4 upB that is her key combo starter and doesn't cause freefall. Supposedly bad dodges but with bat within making her spot/air dodge effectively start frame 1. A combo starting/extending sideB that can be used more than once in the air along with witch twist. Impressive hitbubbles on most of her attacks and specials that are even hard for a sword to challenge (upB beats Link's Dair). UpB with set BKB on the initial hit pared with rage and her unique counter for easy single hits. Witch time, the best counter in the game that can slow opponents from projectiles hitting with an AOE effect. This means lingering hitbubbles like bombs, crash bomber and bananas are dangerous to use against WTime but safe against every other counter if spaced a few character lengths away. This also endangers Zairs and other disjointed 'counter-safe' pokes. WTime allows any attacks including combo starters or your choice of smashes or spikes, unlike other counters which are mainly KO style single hits. A ladder combo factoring in WTime and all the crazy up/side B stuff. Things like the above mentioned Fair, bullet arts, upB hitboxes, dunking Dair and leggy Bair/Nar paired with possible the best recovery in the game. Dair like that using Sheik and you won't come back up. A kill Fthrow so you have to respect her grab at high %s, unlike Fox, for example. Shield cancel Bullet climax for almost no risk.
I dont know about the comparison playwise that sounds more like a social thing where you see widespread dislike for Puff exists, she's "killing Melee" and so on is the same things you hear about Bayo. Puff uses her multiple jumps and extreme floatiness combined with a few silly hitboxes to walk out and fish for openings, she also has a extremely high risk extremely high reward KO move in Rest tha she is able to employ once her constant weaving and zoning has gotten the opponent to do something unsafe in a effort to hit her and she can get her setups into it. Puff is also the lightest character in Melee so she's at risk to die extremely early at all times.
Bayonetta is kind of like Melee Jiggs in a way, except Bayonetta sends you into the northern horizon and jiggs in Melee pushes you off so you can not recover. It is kind of hard to compare them because of how different Jiggs in Melee and Bayonetta in Smash 4. Both can be checked, Jiggs being checked by Melee Fox and Bayonetta being checked by Sheik, DIddy Kong I am not sure. Sorry if this information is lacking, but here you go!
I'd argue it's just the opposite. Bayonetta is probably notably more powerful than Brawl MK, but the overall power level in Smash 4 is a lot higher than it was in Brawl, where half the cast was either legitimately terrible or straight-up didn't function.
