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Official 4BR Tier List V3 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

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Finh009

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Kofu

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With the variety of characters and thus number of players I'm expecting a higher number of team kills, honestly. Maybe not ditto kills though.
 

NINTENDO Galaxy

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I found two Lucas players in the Shoqdown Battle Royal 2 bracket; Cilvanis and Siderus.
 
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Illusion.

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ARFI 18 (74 entrants: Austin, Texas)

1st. Vinnie :4sheik:
2nd. SU | Megafox :4fox:
3rd. Hakii :4zss:
4th. Jumbolias :4ryu:
5th. Jerma :4robinf: :4lucina: :4tlink:
5th. Deluxemenu :4bowser: :4pikachu:
7th. SU | BC :4cloud:
7th. Whispy :4diddy:
 

Aaron1997

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Doesn't Larry 2nd :4dk:? Or am I thinking of someone else?
Bowser vs DK is awful because Bowser has a Small Ding Dong % while Bowser has a much higher window.

Also Maki knows the DK vs Bowser MU so well
 
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I thought they were the same person...........Okay then.
Light is a common tag. There's also a Light from Germany who plays Sheik and is currently participating in Syndicate 2017. At least Light the Lantern was a bit creative with his tag; otherwise, it'd be annoyingly confusing as to identity who is who.
 
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Finh009

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Sumabato 20 (Kansai, Japan) (222 Enatrants)
Bracket: http://challonge.com/Sumabato20T

1st: Aki :4sheik:
2nd: Ron :4mario::4luigi:
3rd: Edge :4diddy:
4th: Sigma :4tlink:
5th: HIKARU :4dk:
5th: 2GG | Komorikiri :4feroy:
7th: Nietono :4diddy::4sheik::4fox:
7th: Nishya :4falcon:
9th: Masha :4diddy:
9th: Rampel :4mario:
9th: Masashi :4cloud:
9th: Rizeasu :substitute:
13th: Shogun :4fox:
13th: NGA :4megaman:
13th: Kiosk :4sheik::4fox:
13th: Matcha :4mewtwo:

Agehasama :4lucas: 2-1 Sigma :4tlink:
Aki :4sheik: 2-1 Gomamugutya :4lucario:
Kisha :4bowser: 2-1 Edge :4diddy:
OCEAN :4rob: 2-0 FILIP:4mario:
Kazmi :4shulk: 2-1 Chanshu :4ryu:
Tatsutsuyo :4mario: 2-0 Ri-ma :4tlink:
Arc :4falco: 2-1 Kuro :4fox:
Agehasama :4lucas:2-0 Gomamugitya :4lucario:
Asui :4greninja: 2-0 Kuro :4fox:
Nishya :4falcon:2-1 Kisha :4bowser:
NGA :4megaman: 2-1 Chanshu :4ryu:
Nishya :4falcon: 2-1 Ri-ma :4tlink:
Aki :4sheik: 2-0 Rizeasu :substitute:
Nishya :4falcon:2-0 Rizeasu :4kirby::4bowser:
Aki :4sheik:3-0 HIKARU :4dk:
Aki :4sheik:3-2 Ron :4luigi::4mario:
Ron :4mario::4luigi: 3-2 Edge :4diddy:

Oisiitofu :4greninja: out at 17th.
Chanshu :4ryu: out at 25th.
Kuro :4fox: out at 33rd.
Kisha :4bowser::4megaman: out at 33rd.
Gomamugitya :4lucario: out at 33rd.
Ri-ma :4tlink: out at 65th.
FILIP :4mario::4cloud: out at 65th.

And yes, Komo went all :4feroy:.
 
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ぱみゅ

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I will always be amazed at how good are Japanese players when running it back from the losers bracket.
Saiya, Sigma and Edge all began their run at Losers Bracket Round 1, got 7, 9 and 10 victories respectively in a row before taking each other out.
:196:
 

Lord Dio

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I know you solidified it afetr the upsets, but still.
Komo went all roy?!?!?!?!
This is strange and fascinating, he's tried Marth at MSMs before, guess that wasn't working out.....
are there vods/youtube videos coming that I can watch? I want to see komo's roy.
 

Hippieslayer

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meanwhile glutonny... might've lost to KEN, but the man is insanely good at the game

lost 2-3 to KEN, but that was 2-3 vs japans best and sonic, using wario

using wario he also bodied cyve and purple H, destroying both completely, bayo and cloud respectively, his damage output and general combo game is insane, those footstools are really scary because even if there's no waft, f-smash will kill at like 50% by the ledge
 
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Finh009

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I know you solidified it afetr the upsets, but still.
Komo went all roy?!?!?!?!
This is strange and fascinating, he's tried Marth at MSMs before, guess that wasn't working out.....
are there vods/youtube videos coming that I can watch? I want to see komo's roy.
The VODs aren't online yet, but they should be up on SHI-G YouTube Channel soon. In the mean time you can check out the full stream if you to see it right now.

I personally find Komo's Roy to be very entertaining. It's very interesting to see such a defensive and patient player such as Komo play a hyper aggressive character like Roy. I hope we see it again sometime in the future.
 
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JB333

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Showdown: Battle Royale 2 (152 entrants, MI) https://smash.gg/tournament/showdown-battle-royale-2/events/wii-u-singles/brackets/154602

1. Fatality:4falcon:
2. Manny:4sonic:
3. WaDi:4mewtwo::4rob:
4. Cosmos:4corrinf:
5. Mistake:4bayonetta:
5. 6WX:4sonic:
7. Samsora:4peach:
7. Shoyo James:4luigi::4diddy:
9. Javi:4sheik::4cloud:
9. dyr:4diddy:
9. tyroy:4bayonetta2:
9. Mr. E:4lucina:
13. JJROCKETS:4diddy:
13. DarkShad:4ryu:
13. Myran:4olimar:
13. Ryuga:4corrinf:


17. CaptainZack:4bayonetta:
17. Zinoto:4diddy:
17. Blacktwins:4cloud::4mario:
25. Day:4lucario:




Notes: •Fatality played on point.
•Captain Zack lost 2-3 to tyroy:4bayonetta: in winners, and he tweeted this out: https://twitter.com/captainzack_/status/911988255255613442

•Cosmos repping Corrin well with a 4th place finish, really good stuff.

•No Bayos in top 4. With players like Zack and Mistake in attendance, that's very surprising.
 

Lord Dio

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Lets go Fatality! WOO!
Also been waiting for someone to bring up the Zack tweet, since the community's blowing up about it.......
 

TDK

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Spa-Con Showdown (109 Entrants) (Arkansas)

1st: Lima :4bayonetta2:
2nd: Larry Lurr :4fox: :4bowser:
3rd: JaySon :4fox:
4th: Sonido :4sonic:
5th: Makibaz :4bowser: :4mario:
5th: Phenom :4fox:
7th: Nev :4mewtwo:
7th: Danbi :4yoshi: :4cloud2:

Syndicate 2017 (338 Entrants) (Europe)

1st: Mr. R :4sheik:
2nd: KEN :4sonic:
3rd: Glutonny :4wario:
4th: Cyve :4diddy: :4bayonetta2:
5th: Purple~H :4cloud2:
5th: iStudying :4greninja:
7th: quiK :4zss:
7th: S1 :4ness:
9th: Adom :4ganondorf:
9th: WiiASE :4ryu:
9th: Griffith :substitute: (History of :4megaman: :4fox: :4bayonetta2: :4mario: :4zss: and many more)
9th: Supahsemmie :4mario:
13th: Wusi :4fox:
13th: LoNg0uw :4rob:
13th: IxisNagus :4sonic:
13th: DKHo :4sheik: :4dk:

SuperGirlKels :4sonic: placed 25th, losing to Rameses :4corrinf: and Pefo :4sonic:

I'd really like to have a conversation about :4ganondorf:.
 
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adom4

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Spa-Con Showdown (109 Entrants) (Arkansas)

1st: Lima :4bayonetta2:
2nd: Larry Lurr :4fox: :4bowser:
3rd: JaySon :4fox:
4th: Sonido :4sonic:
5th: Makibaz :4bowser: :4mario:
5th: Phenom :4fox:
7th: Nev :4mewtwo:
7th: Danbi :4yoshi: :4cloud2:

Syndicate 2017 (338 Entrants) (Europe)

1st: Mr. R :4sheik:
2nd: KEN :4sonic:
3rd: Glutonny :4wario:
4th: Cyve :4diddy: :4bayonetta2:
5th: Purple~H :4cloud2:
5th: iStudying :4greninja:
7th: quiK :4zss:
7th: S1 :4ness:
9th: Adom :4ganondorf:
9th: WiiASE :4ryu:
9th: Griffith :substitute: (History of :4megaman: :4fox: :4bayonetta2: :4mario: :4zss: and many more)
9th: Supahsemmie :4mario:
13th: Wusi :4fox:
13th: LoNg0uw :4rob:
13th: IxisNagus :4sonic:
13th: DKHo :4sheik: :4bayonetta2:

SuperGirlKels :4sonic: placed 25th, losing to Rameses :4corrinf: and Pefo :4sonic:

I'd really like to have a conversation about :4ganondorf:.
Ganon still sux :yeahboi:
 

Yonder

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AHAHAHAHA
He might hit Fortune levels of community distain with tweets like that...but that's another subject.

Someone said Ganon discussion, and he's still bad yeah. But bad as in top of the bottom tier...I fear him more than DDD at least. But I just can't see someone who has probably the worst mobility in the game with no way to zone or defend themselves well too seriously. But his frame data is...ok, and he's a damn scary edgeguarder. He has a decent performance once in a blue moon. I mean, he's eons better than Brawl but I just can't see him higher than anyone else on the current list sides DDD. He could maybe move up a tier though, right at the bottom of it. Fear is a very underrated mental tool in the smash player's arsenal.
 

Lord Dio

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If Ganon ever moves up a tier then I'd expect Zelda to do the same and the bottom tier to be BJR, kirby, Puff, and DDD.......but that's just me.
Super bad? yeah. Bottom of the bottom? Nah, better than Puff imo, and I think it's a general consensus he's better than d3.....somewhat decent frame data. Once in a blue moon? I wouldn't say THAT rare, considering we had Gungnir getting 13h at Umebura 1st half of the year.......certainly not as rare as results for people in the tier above him are becoming sadly.....It'd be a miracle to o up a tier, but bottom of it would be about right.
Edit, oh yeah, and it feels like his edgeguarding game is criminally underrated.....
Ganon still sux :yeahboi:
yeeeeahhhh, but you make him look good!
 
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Kofu

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Ganon still sux :yeahboi:
Out of curiosity, do you think he wins any matchups?

Ganon's highly susceptible to getting camped out like a lot of low tiers and his recovery is bottom 5. He packs good range, exceptional power, and decent burst options, though. EDIT: His edgeguarding game has been terrifying since Brawl, honestly. If he actually had air speed/recovery in general he's be a monster.

I really don't like the matchup as Game & Watch, honestly. Too volatile. I think Game & Watch wins, but his weight makes it risky.
 
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Lord Dio

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Actually, I'd like to ask adom (or anyone who wants to answer really) about two MUs I've been wondering about for a while now: Lucario and Ryu.
I understand why Ryu wins (combos, good kill power, shoryu is hard to intercept), and why Lucario wins (AS being a good projectile and aura can beat rage ganon), but in the right player's hands could either these be at least somewhat doable?
 

Rizen

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I'd say Ganon is better than DDD- except DDD can actually exploit his weight and live forever. Ganon dies at 130% from side launches because his recovery is garbage.
imo he beats swordfighter, jiggs and goes even with low tiers like Zelda.

Ganon belongs in bottom tier. That's not a horrible thing like in Brawl; he's simply worse than other characters not named Mii Swordfighter and a few others.
 
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The-Technique

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that's what i like about this game, a character can be bad but you still have to respect their tools. like Ganon charging up smash, Jigglypuff baiting a roll to Rest, etc
 

ILOVESMASH

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I'd say Ganon is better than DDD- except DDD can actually exploit his weight and live forever. Ganon dies at 130% from side launches because his recovery is garbage.
imo he beats swordfighter, jiggs and goes even with low tiers like Zelda.

Ganon belongs in bottom tier. That's not a horrible thing like in Brawl; he's simply worse than other characters not named Mii Swordfighter and a few others.
Why do you say he beats swordfighter when there are literally 0 people playing the character?
 

Rizen

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Why do you say he beats swordfighter when there are literally 0 people playing the character?
I can't compare it to high level play but I've learned both characters and played Ganon's side with someone on wifi. It's not much to go on tbt.
 

ぱみゅ

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The best thing Swordfighter gets with 1111 against Ganon is a good edgeguard tool in Stone Scabbard, but that's about it. Dthrow>Uair doesn't kill until much later, its aerials are all quite unsafe, has no good projectile and its grounded pokes won't keep Ganon away forever and it gets less reward than the latter, who actually has a decent aerial and anti-approach game that works against Swordfighter, given its low mobility.
:196:
 

HoSmash4

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Spa-Con Showdown (109 Entrants) (Arkansas)

1st: Lima :4bayonetta2:
2nd: Larry Lurr :4fox: :4bowser:
3rd: JaySon :4fox:
4th: Sonido :4sonic:
5th: Makibaz :4bowser: :4mario:
5th: Phenom :4fox:
7th: Nev :4mewtwo:
7th: Danbi :4yoshi: :4cloud2:

Syndicate 2017 (338 Entrants) (Europe)

1st: Mr. R :4sheik:
2nd: KEN :4sonic:
3rd: Glutonny :4wario:
4th: Cyve :4diddy: :4bayonetta2:
5th: Purple~H :4cloud2:
5th: iStudying :4greninja:
7th: quiK :4zss:
7th: S1 :4ness:
9th: Adom :4ganondorf:
9th: WiiASE :4ryu:
9th: Griffith :substitute: (History of :4megaman: :4fox: :4bayonetta2: :4mario: :4zss: and many more)
9th: Supahsemmie :4mario:
13th: Wusi :4fox:
13th: LoNg0uw :4rob:
13th: IxisNagus :4sonic:
13th: DKHo :4sheik: :4bayonetta2:

SuperGirlKels :4sonic: placed 25th, losing to Rameses :4corrinf: and Pefo :4sonic:

I'd really like to have a conversation about :4ganondorf:.
I didn't use Bayonetta, but I used DK
Longouw won a set using cloud and fox
Griffith used at least Bayo and megaman
 
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Routa

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The best thing Swordfighter gets with 1111 against Ganon is a good edgeguard tool in Stone Scabbard, but that's about it. Dthrow>Uair doesn't kill until much later, its aerials are all quite unsafe, has no good projectile and its grounded pokes won't keep Ganon away forever and it gets less reward than the latter, who actually has a decent aerial and anti-approach game that works against Swordfighter, given its low mobility.
:196:
Indeed. Swordfighter has 3 big flaws which Ganondorf can exploit: no range, low damage output/killpower and exploitable recovery. The MU is a bit more doable if given Chakram and different up-b, but it is still difficult for Swordspider.
Swordspider does well against only couple characters like Kirby, Bjr and Roy. This has to do mainly with his decent combo game, above average ground game (his Jab and Dtilt are ond of the better ones in game) along with good edgeguarding game.
 

Guido65

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The best thing Swordfighter gets with 1111 against Ganon is a good edgeguard tool in Stone Scabbard, but that's about it. Dthrow>Uair doesn't kill until much later, its aerials are all quite unsafe, has no good projectile and its grounded pokes won't keep Ganon away forever and it gets less reward than the latter, who actually has a decent aerial and anti-approach game that works against Swordfighter, given its low mobility.
:196:
His bair and nair(the back hit) are fairly safe. And I think you are ignoring his dair vs ganons recovery and swordies good juggling game vs ganon. The main problem I see is that swordie can't kill ganon that well(killing being his biggest weakness most often he tends to fish for a bair at high %)and his edgeguarding can be silly vs us but otherwise he does fine against ganon to be honest. In my opinion swordie wins but only +1. I also heavily disagree that his reward is low. In terms of mus though his worst ones imo are :4bayonetta2:and:4sheik:with sheik being hard for the exact same reasons link sheik is a hard matchup(her amazing frame data and strong aggression can overwhelm him very fast and that she ledge traps him hard).
 
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