Official 4BR Tier List V3 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[Finh009]

Sumabato 20 is tonight!

Featuring many notable players such as:

2GG | Komorikiri
HIKARU
Edge
Kuro
Masha
Zaki
Gomamugitya
Chanshu
Sigma
Rizeasu
Ginko
Ron
Shogun
DNG | Nietono
Kisha
FILIP
Oisiitofu
DIO
Ri-ma
Masashi

This will also be the last notable Japanese Tournament for about a month.

Pools: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...HjtrPGIq5zqXm0hprEZqBqkyI/edit#gid=2133813691
Bracket: http://challonge.com/Sumabato20T
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/shi_gaming

 

[Rizen]

unlike vs someone like Bowser where he wants to camp like crazy.

This sentence is awkward

This oughta be good. Hopefully there won't be too many FE team kills in this tournament.

Flashbacks to the saga.

 

[Kofu]

With the variety of characters and thus number of players I'm expecting a higher number of team kills, honestly. Maybe not ditto kills though.

 

[Routa]

Syndicate is going on today and tomorrow. Here is the link to the pools and who will continue to the top 64: https://smash.gg/tournament/syndicate-2017/events/wii-u-singles-1/brackets/123479

 

[TDK]

Meanwhile in Michigan...

JohnsstR 2-1 Javi

Stream is here: https://go.twitch.tv/unrivaledtournaments

 

[MrGameguycolor]

JohnsstR 2-1 Javi

Should of went Doc. :D

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

I found two Lucas players in the Shoqdown Battle Royal 2 bracket; Cilvanis and Siderus.

 

[Illusion.]

ARFI 18 (74 entrants: Austin, Texas)

1st. Vinnie
2nd. SU | Megafox
3rd. Hakii
4th. Jumbolias
5th. Jerma
5th. Deluxemenu
7th. SU | BC
7th. Whispy

 

[Aaron1997]

Meanwhile In Arkansas.

https://smash.gg/tournament/spa-con-showdown-2017-ft-larry-lurr/events/wii-u-singles/brackets/151836

Larry Lurr 3-2 Makibaz




Spa-con Top 8

Winners
Larry Lurr Vs Jayson

Lima vs Sonido



Losers

NWA Danbi vs Makibaz

Nevvs Phenom



Out

9th

TKO Cheezeballer

Sen. Swaft

Light The Lantern

Zurge

13th

TKO Elrox

RevenAndMalak

Jaebock

DragonZoid

 

[Rizen]

Meanwhile In Arkansas.

https://smash.gg/tournament/spa-con-showdown-2017-ft-larry-lurr/events/wii-u-singles/brackets/151836

Larry Lurr 3-2 Makibaz




Spa-con Top 8

Winners
Larry Lurr Vs Jayson

Lima vs Sonido



Losers

NWA Danbi vs Makibaz

Nevvs Phenom

Doesn't Larry 2nd ? Or am I thinking of someone else?

 

[Aaron1997]

Doesn't Larry 2nd ? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Bowser vs DK is awful because Bowser has a Small Ding Dong % while Bowser has a much higher window.

Also Maki knows the DK vs Bowser MU so well

 

[Lord Dio]

Light the Lantern plays ZSS? Nice, thought he was just fox......

 

[The-Technique]

Light the Lantern plays ZSS? Nice, thought he was just fox......

i think you're confusing Light the Lantern with Light from New England, who mains Fox.

 

[Lord Dio]

i think you're confusing Light the Lantern with Light from New England, who mains Fox.

I thought they were the same person...........Okay then.

 

[Game7a1]

I thought they were the same person...........Okay then.

Light is a common tag. There's also a Light from Germany who plays Sheik and is currently participating in Syndicate 2017. At least Light the Lantern was a bit creative with his tag; otherwise, it'd be annoyingly confusing as to identity who is who.

 

[Finh009]

Sumabato 20 (Kansai, Japan) (222 Enatrants)
Bracket: http://challonge.com/Sumabato20T

1st: Aki
2nd: Ron
3rd: Edge
4th: Sigma
5th: HIKARU
5th: 2GG | Komorikiri
7th: Nietono
7th: Nishya
9th: Masha
9th: Rampel
9th: Masashi
9th: Rizeasu
13th: Shogun
13th: NGA
13th: Kiosk
13th: Matcha

Spoiler: Notable Upsets

Agehasama 2-1 Sigma
Aki 2-1 Gomamugutya
Kisha 2-1 Edge
OCEAN 2-0 FILIP
Kazmi 2-1 Chanshu
Tatsutsuyo 2-0 Ri-ma
Arc 2-1 Kuro
Agehasama 2-0 Gomamugitya
Asui 2-0 Kuro
Nishya 2-1 Kisha
NGA 2-1 Chanshu
Nishya 2-1 Ri-ma
Aki 2-0 Rizeasu
Nishya 2-0 Rizeasu
Aki 3-0 HIKARU
Aki 3-2 Ron
Ron 3-2 Edge

Oisiitofu out at 17th.
Chanshu out at 25th.
Kuro out at 33rd.
Kisha out at 33rd.
Gomamugitya out at 33rd.
Ri-ma out at 65th.
FILIP out at 65th.

And yes, Komo went all .

 

[ぱみゅ]

I will always be amazed at how good are Japanese players when running it back from the losers bracket.
Saiya, Sigma and Edge all began their run at Losers Bracket Round 1, got 7, 9 and 10 victories respectively in a row before taking each other out.

 

[Lord Dio]

I know you solidified it afetr the upsets, but still.
Komo went all roy?!?!?!?!
This is strange and fascinating, he's tried Marth at MSMs before, guess that wasn't working out.....
are there vods/youtube videos coming that I can watch? I want to see komo's roy.

 

[Radical Larry]

Solo Ganon main adom got 9th out of 338 at Syndicate.

 

[Hippieslayer]

meanwhile glutonny... might've lost to KEN, but the man is insanely good at the game

lost 2-3 to KEN, but that was 2-3 vs japans best and sonic, using wario

using wario he also bodied cyve and purple H, destroying both completely, bayo and cloud respectively, his damage output and general combo game is insane, those footstools are really scary because even if there's no waft, f-smash will kill at like 50% by the ledge

 

[Finh009]

I know you solidified it afetr the upsets, but still.
Komo went all roy?!?!?!?!
This is strange and fascinating, he's tried Marth at MSMs before, guess that wasn't working out.....
are there vods/youtube videos coming that I can watch? I want to see komo's roy.

The VODs aren't online yet, but they should be up on SHI-G YouTube Channel soon. In the mean time you can check out the full stream if you to see it right now.

I personally find Komo's Roy to be very entertaining. It's very interesting to see such a defensive and patient player such as Komo play a hyper aggressive character like Roy. I hope we see it again sometime in the future.

 

[JB333]

Showdown: Battle Royale 2 (152 entrants, MI) https://smash.gg/tournament/showdown-battle-royale-2/events/wii-u-singles/brackets/154602

1. Fatality
2. Manny
3. WaDi
4. Cosmos
5. Mistake
5. 6WX
7. Samsora
7. Shoyo James
9. Javi
9. dyr
9. tyroy
9. Mr. E
13. JJROCKETS
13. DarkShad
13. Myran
13. Ryuga


17. CaptainZack
17. Zinoto
17. Blacktwins
25. Day




Notes: •Fatality played on point.
•Captain Zack lost 2-3 to tyroy in winners, and he tweeted this out: https://twitter.com/captainzack_/status/911988255255613442

•Cosmos repping Corrin well with a 4th place finish, really good stuff.

•No Bayos in top 4. With players like Zack and Mistake in attendance, that's very surprising.

 

[Lord Dio]

Lets go Fatality! WOO!
Also been waiting for someone to bring up the Zack tweet, since the community's blowing up about it.......

 

[R3D3MON]

Lets go Fatality! WOO!
Also been waiting for someone to bring up the Zack tweet, since the community's blowing up about it.......

AHAHAHAHA

 

[TDK]

Spa-Con Showdown (109 Entrants) (Arkansas)

1st: Lima
2nd: Larry Lurr
3rd: JaySon
4th: Sonido
5th: Makibaz
5th: Phenom
7th: Nev
7th: Danbi

Syndicate 2017 (338 Entrants) (Europe)

1st: Mr. R
2nd: KEN
3rd: Glutonny
4th: Cyve
5th: Purple~H
5th: iStudying
7th: quiK
7th: S1
9th: Adom
9th: WiiASE
9th: Griffith (History of and many more)
9th: Supahsemmie
13th: Wusi
13th: LoNg0uw
13th: IxisNagus
13th: DKHo

SuperGirlKels placed 25th, losing to Rameses and Pefo

I'd really like to have a conversation about .

 

[adom4]

Spa-Con Showdown (109 Entrants) (Arkansas)

1st: Lima
2nd: Larry Lurr
3rd: JaySon
4th: Sonido
5th: Makibaz
5th: Phenom
7th: Nev
7th: Danbi

Syndicate 2017 (338 Entrants) (Europe)

1st: Mr. R
2nd: KEN
3rd: Glutonny
4th: Cyve
5th: Purple~H
5th: iStudying
7th: quiK
7th: S1
9th: Adom
9th: WiiASE
9th: Griffith (History of and many more)
9th: Supahsemmie
13th: Wusi
13th: LoNg0uw
13th: IxisNagus
13th: DKHo

SuperGirlKels placed 25th, losing to Rameses and Pefo

I'd really like to have a conversation about .

Ganon still sux

 

[Yonder]

AHAHAHAHA

He might hit Fortune levels of community distain with tweets like that...but that's another subject.

Someone said Ganon discussion, and he's still bad yeah. But bad as in top of the bottom tier...I fear him more than DDD at least. But I just can't see someone who has probably the worst mobility in the game with no way to zone or defend themselves well too seriously. But his frame data is...ok, and he's a damn scary edgeguarder. He has a decent performance once in a blue moon. I mean, he's eons better than Brawl but I just can't see him higher than anyone else on the current list sides DDD. He could maybe move up a tier though, right at the bottom of it. Fear is a very underrated mental tool in the smash player's arsenal.

 

[Lord Dio]

If Ganon ever moves up a tier then I'd expect Zelda to do the same and the bottom tier to be BJR, kirby, Puff, and DDD.......but that's just me.
Super bad? yeah. Bottom of the bottom? Nah, better than Puff imo, and I think it's a general consensus he's better than d3.....somewhat decent frame data. Once in a blue moon? I wouldn't say THAT rare, considering we had Gungnir getting 13h at Umebura 1st half of the year.......certainly not as rare as results for people in the tier above him are becoming sadly.....It'd be a miracle to o up a tier, but bottom of it would be about right.
Edit, oh yeah, and it feels like his edgeguarding game is criminally underrated.....

Ganon still sux

yeeeeahhhh, but you make him look good!

 

[Kofu]

Ganon still sux

Out of curiosity, do you think he wins any matchups?

Ganon's highly susceptible to getting camped out like a lot of low tiers and his recovery is bottom 5. He packs good range, exceptional power, and decent burst options, though. EDIT: His edgeguarding game has been terrifying since Brawl, honestly. If he actually had air speed/recovery in general he's be a monster.

I really don't like the matchup as Game & Watch, honestly. Too volatile. I think Game & Watch wins, but his weight makes it risky.

 

[Lord Dio]

Actually, I'd like to ask adom (or anyone who wants to answer really) about two MUs I've been wondering about for a while now: Lucario and Ryu.
I understand why Ryu wins (combos, good kill power, shoryu is hard to intercept), and why Lucario wins (AS being a good projectile and aura can beat rage ganon), but in the right player's hands could either these be at least somewhat doable?

 

[Rizen]

I'd say Ganon is better than DDD- except DDD can actually exploit his weight and live forever. Ganon dies at 130% from side launches because his recovery is garbage.
imo he beats swordfighter, jiggs and goes even with low tiers like Zelda.

Ganon belongs in bottom tier. That's not a horrible thing like in Brawl; he's simply worse than other characters not named Mii Swordfighter and a few others.

 

[The-Technique]

that's what i like about this game, a character can be bad but you still have to respect their tools. like Ganon charging up smash, Jigglypuff baiting a roll to Rest, etc

 

[ILOVESMASH]

I'd say Ganon is better than DDD- except DDD can actually exploit his weight and live forever. Ganon dies at 130% from side launches because his recovery is garbage.
imo he beats swordfighter, jiggs and goes even with low tiers like Zelda.

Ganon belongs in bottom tier. That's not a horrible thing like in Brawl; he's simply worse than other characters not named Mii Swordfighter and a few others.

Why do you say he beats swordfighter when there are literally 0 people playing the character?

 

[Rizen]

Why do you say he beats swordfighter when there are literally 0 people playing the character?

I can't compare it to high level play but I've learned both characters and played Ganon's side with someone on wifi. It's not much to go on tbt.

 

[ぱみゅ]

The best thing Swordfighter gets with 1111 against Ganon is a good edgeguard tool in Stone Scabbard, but that's about it. Dthrow>Uair doesn't kill until much later, its aerials are all quite unsafe, has no good projectile and its grounded pokes won't keep Ganon away forever and it gets less reward than the latter, who actually has a decent aerial and anti-approach game that works against Swordfighter, given its low mobility.

 

[HoSmash4]

Spa-Con Showdown (109 Entrants) (Arkansas)

1st: Lima
2nd: Larry Lurr
3rd: JaySon
4th: Sonido
5th: Makibaz
5th: Phenom
7th: Nev
7th: Danbi

Syndicate 2017 (338 Entrants) (Europe)

1st: Mr. R
2nd: KEN
3rd: Glutonny
4th: Cyve
5th: Purple~H
5th: iStudying
7th: quiK
7th: S1
9th: Adom
9th: WiiASE
9th: Griffith (History of and many more)
9th: Supahsemmie
13th: Wusi
13th: LoNg0uw
13th: IxisNagus
13th: DKHo

SuperGirlKels placed 25th, losing to Rameses and Pefo

I'd really like to have a conversation about .

I didn't use Bayonetta, but I used DK
Longouw won a set using cloud and fox
Griffith used at least Bayo and megaman

 

[Routa]

The best thing Swordfighter gets with 1111 against Ganon is a good edgeguard tool in Stone Scabbard, but that's about it. Dthrow>Uair doesn't kill until much later, its aerials are all quite unsafe, has no good projectile and its grounded pokes won't keep Ganon away forever and it gets less reward than the latter, who actually has a decent aerial and anti-approach game that works against Swordfighter, given its low mobility.

Indeed. Swordfighter has 3 big flaws which Ganondorf can exploit: no range, low damage output/killpower and exploitable recovery. The MU is a bit more doable if given Chakram and different up-b, but it is still difficult for Swordspider.
Swordspider does well against only couple characters like Kirby, Bjr and Roy. This has to do mainly with his decent combo game, above average ground game (his Jab and Dtilt are ond of the better ones in game) along with good edgeguarding game.

 

[Guido65]

The best thing Swordfighter gets with 1111 against Ganon is a good edgeguard tool in Stone Scabbard, but that's about it. Dthrow>Uair doesn't kill until much later, its aerials are all quite unsafe, has no good projectile and its grounded pokes won't keep Ganon away forever and it gets less reward than the latter, who actually has a decent aerial and anti-approach game that works against Swordfighter, given its low mobility.

His bair and nair(the back hit) are fairly safe. And I think you are ignoring his dair vs ganons recovery and swordies good juggling game vs ganon. The main problem I see is that swordie can't kill ganon that well(killing being his biggest weakness most often he tends to fish for a bair at high %)and his edgeguarding can be silly vs us but otherwise he does fine against ganon to be honest. In my opinion swordie wins but only +1. I also heavily disagree that his reward is low. In terms of mus though his worst ones imo are andwith sheik being hard for the exact same reasons link sheik is a hard matchup(her amazing frame data and strong aggression can overwhelm him very fast and that she ledge traps him hard).

 

[MERPIS]

4th tier list when

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Griffith used at least Bayo and megaman

Is Griffith like the European ANTi?