Official 4BR Tier List v2.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Y2Kay]

Mewtwo players are undergoing some growing pains.

Keep in mind he's been a top tier character for a shorter time compared to nearly all the other top tiers in the game.

 

[|RK|]

Cloud is pretty oppressive against characters that have trouble approaching.
Like Ness and Kirby. I would go as far and say optimal Cloud play would result in a +3 Kirby and Ness MU.

Would you mind elaborating on what optimal Cloud looks like?

 

[TDK]

Mewtwo is the only one of our widely-agreed top 10 to not have started off as a top tier.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Top 3 has to be a combination of Sheik, Diddy, and Bayonetta at this point in time. I could see Sonic in theory bumping Diddy out, but there's only one guy really getting close to playing him optimally for the moment so he's not there yet. Bayonetta I would not be surprised if she took first overall. And have ban talks about her again once she grows more and more optimized. Her design just goes against too much of how most SSB4 characters work: she's already top 3 with a much shorter timespan for growth compared to the other 2. Pretty much anyone who mains Bayonetta should quietly dabble in another top tier at this point, just so they don't get the carpet pulled out from under them. Don't have to bust them out in a tournament ever, no need to really, but that would be the intelligent thing to do at this point. She's climbing too high too fast even after her nerf, wax might start melting off of her wings soon.

Sonic and Cloud are fighting for 4th and 5th. Sonic is on the way up, Cloud is... kinda bouncing up and down will probably eventually move down a bit but I don't see him ever leaving the top 10. Sonic, when optimized, will be an absolute nightmare. An answer for every character, even the tiny handful he loses slightly to. And those handful will be mostly due to how many times he has to successfully outplay them (basically just losing the effort:reward ratio by too much to actually call it even, but more than manageable still and still very frustrating for the other character even if they do win the MU).

6th-10th is Fox, Rosalina, Mario, ZSS, Mewtwo. Its probably pretty close to that order as well. Mewtwo to me, is very much the character I can see falling out of top 10 years down the road. People talk about how mentally exhausting Sheik is to play, I fail to see how Mewtwo isn't even more exhausting. Sheik has to work for her kills, using all her different kill set ups. A mistake costs her a bit, mainly having to go back to neutral for the umpteenth time and having to remember which set ups work now with her new level of rage. Mewtwo? Mewtwo messes up twice in a stock and he dies. Sheik can mess up a good four times and still be hanging on. That's just too small of a window once the metagame tightens up more and more.

Who would take Mewtwo's place if he did fall out? Gets murky there, as right now I'd say all of the other characters have a clear gap. Might be less somebody taking Mewtwo's place and more it being a "top 9 and then high tiers" vs "top 10 then high tiers". As it stands right now, I don't see a way for Marth, Ryu, Pikachu, Meta Knight or the like overtaking Mewtwo on their own merits outside of maybe the super theoretical Ryu actually happening.

 

[Yikarur]

Would you mind elaborating on what optimal Cloud looks like?

I wish I had the Purple~H vs. S1 set recorded. (Double 2 Stock) but optimal Cloud might look like the first game of this set:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xWztymzNxA

 

[|RK|]

I wish I had the Purple~H vs. S1 set recorded. (Double 2 Stock) but optimal Cloud might look like the first game of this set:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xWztymzNxA

Man, that's depressing lmao. Surprised the Pika did so badly at chasing. Would have expected the thunder more often, and maybe even taking advantage of the platform himself. Looks like he got too scared at low percents and put himself in a worse position later on.

In general, the best way to discourage this is by taking the lead yourself and holding it. There's little to no reason to chase after Cloud while he's charging his limit. As Pikachu, this was a chance to take the platform himself, without bothering to engage with Cloud. As Kirby, I'd just copy (or hammer if I'm feeling *really* risky.

That said, Cloud's ability to run away is a problem - I mentioned that in a previous post. In fact, it's *the* main issue we have against him. Of course, blade beam is a slightly better projectile than thunderjolts for the purposes of heckling a platform camping Cloud (no need to jump on the platform) and a command grab (even a poor one) is useful too.

SV would be fine. T&C can be a genuine problem with the triple layout, and Duck Hunt is obviously insta-banned. Everywhere else has some level of counterplay. IMO.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

After the Midwest Mayhem tourny this is what I am seeing so far, my opinion is always changing

View attachment 120713

I feel Bayo has enough good arguments and evidence to be the best character in the game right now tbh. I also feel that Cloud was a bit overrated when both patch 1.15 and 1.16 droped, which is why I dont feel he is top 5 at this point (by a tad bit, I still rank him as 7th tho). Besides a few nuisances in minuscule placements in the top tiers, I feel the mid and low tiers are pretty stagnant and concrete at this point. Besides rises from stuff like Megaman and Marth, I feel they will all kinda stay sedentary in there spots due to the power gap between them and the top tiers. Others thoughts?

P.S I might even see the argument to put Olimar in B tier due to Dabuz really showcasing the character's potential.

I would not say Bayo is the Absolute best now, but with her results just getting better and better I can see an definitely argument for how she is define top 5 or even in the top 3
BTW Don't see Lucina anywhere on the list. but I would place her either at the lower end of B or higher end of C

 

[Funbot28]

I would not say Bayo is the Absolute best now, but with her results just getting better and better I can see an definitely argument for how she is define top 5 or even in the top 3
BTW Don't see Lucina anywhere on the list. but I would place her either at the lower end of B or higher end of C

Ya I decided to not rank Lucina on purpose due to the fact that her and Marth have specific uses in particular cases which makes it harder to rank them differently.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why should I think she is?

You don't have to.

You'd be wrong if you didn't. But you don't have to.

 

[my_T]

I think if anybody will be dropping out of the top 10 it will be Mario. He's just not as oppressive as all the other characters that are widely perceived as top ten.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

I thin Esam was on to something when he said is becoming something similar to pre-patched or of the 1.1.6 meta

Yea Bayonetta "technically" has a somewhat lacking neutral game among other weaknesses and she "technically" has bad MU's but the thing is that her ridiculous punish game and overall insane jank factor is so ridiculous that it can render all that moot at times . To where if your opponent makes a mistake or plays incorrectly, there at best going to be comboed for obscene damage or lost the stock early at worst . Which makes her easily top tier and among the despite lacking one or more the extremely good things other top tiers have such as top neutral/ frame data/ grab game

Also she has a top tier offstage game too like and still have.. and likely has the biggest comeback/turnaround ability next to

 

[Bowserboy3]

You don't have to.

You'd be wrong if you didn't. But you don't have to.

Aaaaand yet another reason why this thread is ridiculous sometimes.

What gives you the right to say somebody is wrong for having a view that is just a subjective as yours?

Opinions are opinions. Nothing is set in stone until proven otherwise.

There's still decent argument against Bayonetta not being "top 2" like you claim we should just agree.

I'm not even saying you are wrong; I think Bayonetta may as well be top 3 at this point (sure it's not "top 2", but boy it's one place), but comments like that don't encourage discussion. The passive aggressiveness in this thread sometimes is unsettling.

---

On the topic of characters falling out of top 10, I don't see how Mario will fall out of the top 10 unless he suddenly sees a fall in results.

But a good comment I saw a few posts back (might have been Nidtendofreak ) made a good point; who would we even put in the place if one of the top 10 fell down? I can't see anybody super deserving of that at this current moment in time. Marth has results that rival the top tiers, for example, but overall, he doesn't have the insane options most of them have (i'm in no way insinuating that Marth should replace a character in top 10, but from my explaination, I hope you get my point). I can only really see Ryu going there, if only based on the "potential" that everybody has failed to live up to. I suppose Mega Man can do some crazy sh*t, but is he really deserving of top 10? That's the kind of thing I am wondering.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You don't have to.

You'd be wrong if you didn't. But you don't have to.

I was hoping for reasoning rather than this.

I want to be open to ideas like this and it would help me if you provided something for me here even if short and brief.

 

[Y2Kay]

You don't have to.

You'd be wrong if you didn't. But you don't have to.

Never change, Gheb.

Never change.

 

[Krysco]

Rather interesting to see how Mewtwo can be viewed as high as top 3-4 and as low as potentially leaving top 10. Makes sense with his glass cannon nature and unlike say Mewtwo doesn't have oppressive enough tools to be even or better against every character in the game. Plus there's the whole, getting bodied by Diddy thing going against him.

Also surprised that only Mewtwo and Mario have been brought up to potentially leave top 10. I can see the thought process behind believing either case but no mention of ZSS or to a lesser extent, Rosa. Opinions on ZSS seemed to drop pretty hard when she was hit by the last batch of nerfs. She went from being one of the 3 godesses or whatever prepatch Sheik, ZSS and Rosa were called to not even being mentioned for top 3s or 5s or whatever arbitrary number people like to pick. As for Rosa, people getting better at fighting her by disposing of Luma more frequently and her bad MK mu but then I guess Mewtwo probably has more reason to leave top 10 than her with his lower weight and not having a pincushion to help him out.

As for a potential replacement in the event that someone in the current top 10 gets booted out, I find it rather amusing how people are skeptical to say Marth, Mega Man, Ryu or whoever doesn't quite have what it takes to be ranked among the rest when the exact same thing happened with Mewtwo. Granted, thatwas right after his buffs and people didn't know how much it meant to him but still.

 

[FeelMeUp]

T People talk about how mentally exhausting Sheik is to play, I fail to see how Mewtwo isn't even more exhausting. Sheik has to work for her kills, using all her different kill set ups. A mistake costs her a bit, mainly having to go back to neutral for the umpteenth time and having to remember which set ups work now with her new level of rage. Mewtwo? Mewtwo messes up twice in a stock and he dies. Sheik can mess up a good four times and still be hanging on. That's just too small of a window once the metagame tightens up more and more.

you're forgetting that a mewtwo combo does 30-40% and he caps your stock around 90-120
he has a top 5 neutral and still only has to win neutral a handful of times. him being that light doesn't matter when he has some of, if not the best, kill power of all the top tiers.
sheik wins neutral 98 times and still can't kill you off a stray hit until 180 if she misses the setup window.
i would kill to be as relaxed as a mewtwo main knowing that any single move touching the opponent would kill them. nothing about that is remotely as mentally exhausting as Sheik.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Not sure if will ever be Top 10 material, especially since , and exist, but I don't see him being any less than top 15 at best, and half the upper cast at worst.

 

[Y2Kay]

you're forgetting that a mewtwo combo does 30-40% and he caps your stock around 90-120
he has a top 5 neutral and still only has to win neutral a handful of times. him being that light doesn't matter when he has some of, if not the best, kill power of all the top tiers.
sheik wins neutral 98 times and still can't kill you off a stray hit until 180 if she misses the setup window.
i would kill to be as relaxed as a mewtwo main knowing that any single move touching the opponent would kill them. nothing about that is remotely as mentally exhausting as Sheik.

A lot of the newer Mewtwo mains neglect neutral play. His neutral is very good and his reward off of winning neutral is almost ridiculously high.

I constantly see this from Mewtwo mains, even high level ones. They spam high reward options like Nair, Down Tilt, Shadow Ball, and Forward Air and they get punished - and killed - for it.

Mewtwo players need to understand that predictability leads to death, which happens a lot earlier for Mewtwo than most of the cast. Mewtwo players need to be selective about which move they throw out, as the choice can quickly become life or death for him.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Well whatever the opinion on tier placement end up, As long as she wreksand takes him down a peg. I welcome her rise with open arms

 

[Nidtendofreak]

A lot of the newer Mewtwo mains neglect neutral play. His neutral is very good and his reward off of winning neutral is almost ridiculously high.

I constantly see this from Mewtwo mains, even high level ones. They spam high reward options like Nair, Down Tilt, Shadow Ball, and Forward Air and they get punished - and killed - for it.

Mewtwo players need to understand that predictability leads to death, which happens a lot earlier for Mewtwo than most of the cast. Mewtwo players need to be selective about which move they throw out, as the choice can quickly become life or death for him.

Which doing successfully, adds more mental strain and then circles back around to my point.

Once M2s start getting punished more for playing unsafe they'll have to change it up. And that change will be a mentally taxing one because by that point it will be "one mistake in neutral means I lose half of my stock, but me winning neutral only takes about 1/3 of their stock and I can't do it on autopilot".

He has a giant list of options to be sure for neutral, which means the odds are in his favour for each neutral exchange, but its still a gruelling mental game to carry out for a whole tournament. I just think his size + weight combo is going to (very slowly, over time) drag him down at the top level in comparison to other top tiers.

 

[Yikarur]

why does Mewtwo have a Top5 neutral? I don't get what qualifies Mewtwo for this.
Sheik, Diddy, Rosalina, Sonic, Mega Man, Fox and I think even more have a better neutral than Mewtwo.

 

[Monete]

Olimar will rise as a top 15 character.
Good mu vs Diddy, Rosa, Zss, MegaMan,worst mu are Sheik, Sonic, Corrin, not worse than 60-40 and improving i think.

Not very popular but with Shuton in Japan, and Dabuz there are 2 top 15 players maining the lovely astronaut (also Myran and Angbad)

 

[|RK|]

why does Mewtwo have a Top5 neutral? I don't get what qualifies Mewtwo for this.
Sheik, Diddy, Rosalina, Sonic, Mega Man, Fox and I think even more have a better neutral than Mewtwo.

Sheik, Diddy, and Rosa for sure. The rest is a little muddy, IMO. Mewtwo beats shield really well, which is more than I can say for the rest.

 

[FeelMeUp]

why does Mewtwo have a Top5 neutral? I don't get what qualifies Mewtwo for this.
Sheik, Diddy, Rosalina, Sonic, Mega Man, Fox and I think even more have a better neutral than Mewtwo.

Fox and Sonic's neutrals aren't that amazing compared to the tip top ones.
For best neutrals off memory I'd say it's something like this, in no order:

Mewtwo has an amazing reward off touching you with any of his neutral tools that are relatively safe
chargeable projectile that can be canceled rockets you up there, and the fact that it increases mobility while doing absurd damage(what is it, 26%?)
Good mobility
can kill you or do +20-30% for touching his shield
good jumpsquat
Very big hitboxes with good damage
Decent/good options out of run
Short hop airdodge is ridiculous
His approach options aren't amazing, but like Sheik he almost never has to approach so that doesn't matter
good at converting to death situations once he wins neutral
says "nah" to most attempts at shielding

It's like a Bayo thing where his neutral may look weaker than the others in the top 5 neutrals on paper, but the risk reward is so heavily skewed in his favour that it pushes him up there with the best.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Since this didn't get expanded on earlier, what makes Lucas good Emblem Lord ? I'm honestly curious on your opinion of Lucas.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

why does Mewtwo have a Top5 neutral? I don't get what qualifies Mewtwo for this.
Sheik, Diddy, Rosalina, Sonic, Mega Man, Fox and I think even more have a better neutral than Mewtwo.

Makes sense on paper, high mobility neutral god with high reward who doesn't have to play around shields. Not to mention a great matchup spread, only real bad matchup is diddy

 

[JayE]

Lucas is really good imo. He has a really good grab game and combo game, with his insane footstool shenanigans. I've been a victim to Lucas players who can do that, its terrifying.
All of Lucas' grabs are useful, his up throw, back throw, and f throw are all kill throw options, and of course his down throw is his main combo throw. He has mixups with down tilt to grab which are pretty tricky. Ever since they buffed his grab its even more annoying to punish.
Lucas also has better recovery than Ness with the tether and a farther PK thunder.

 

[Megamang]

And PSI magnet + pkfire means tons of the cast has to approach. As megaman i have to mix up stuff way more, since 3 pellets being absorbed sets me back significantly.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Since this didn't get expanded on earlier, what makes Lucas good Emblem Lord ? I'm honestly curious on your opinion of Lucas.

My bad dude...I shoulda explained more but ya know...SSJ Blue Vegito coming next week in DBS. I am not in my right state of mind. Hype mode has been activated!!!!!

Ok so Lucas

He just plays right into what a strong character is in this series. Strong neutral tools and has the ability to disengage and isn't forced to fight people up front. Zair is strong as a poke and isn't committal. PK Fire is strong keepaway when done off a short hop. His grab is fairly committal although much less so then other tether grabs. But his grab reward can't be understated. He has real KO confirms and very easy mode footstool combos. Overall his normals are solid all around. Nair can be SDIed out of which sucks, but other then that he can go button to button vs pretty much everyone except probably Cloud and other strong swordsman. Well, he can go aerial to aerial vs almost anyone. His ground game is less about control/range and more about get off me pokes and quick strikes. Recovery is solid.

Oh, yeah he has an energy absorbing down B, so alot of projectiles from different characters = LOLOL

So yea he is suited to handle characters that want to run and don't have a physical projectile.

Just plain and simple his design works for the engine. He is a good character only outdone by characters that are just much much more stupid than him.

That said all of this is irrelevant.

Lucas does not have the power to win a major. Not by himself.

Sorry if I rained on anyone's parade.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Lucas's better recovery alone makes many MU's better from him than for Ness.Yes, that even includes the dreaded

 

[Y2Kay]

Mewtwo is remarkably good at footsies. Down Tilt has great range and is disjointed. If you can get a hit near the base, you can start up some very strong combos. Hits from down tilt at the tip are also safe on shield. Jab is frame 6, has strong mixups off of it, and also has good range. A very underrated move in Mewtwo's kit. Shadow ball is a grab confirm uncharged on stage, and is frame trap that sets up for Forward Air kills offstage. The charged variant kills early, causes a lot of shield damage, and does a whopping 25% if it lands. Forward Air is a strong kill move, and sets up for ridiculous combos. The killer part about forward air is that if you space it, it doubles as a safe poke! Throw in Mewtwo's SHAD shenanigans and the move just gets ridiculous. It is easily one of the best moves in the game.
These excellent options combined with a good throw game and great ground speed makes Mewtwo really threatening.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Don't talk to me about Mewtwo footsies until peeps start using that glorious d-smash.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Hi. Long time no see people. Well I didn't read all 200+ pages of things I missed on the old thread nor do I want to. I have read 45 of them here......and they're mostly the same.

Anyway I come here to present a question: Why do certain top or high tier characters fail utilize their tools against objectively worse characters?

I have personal thoughts on this, but I want weigh everyone's opinions first. I also bring an example to this discussion.

 

[FeelMeUp]

Hi. Long time no see people. Well I didn't read all 200+ pages of things I missed on the old thread nor do I want to. I have read 45 of them here......and they're mostly the same.

Anyway I come here to present a question: Why do certain top or high tier characters fail utilize their tools against objectively worse characters?

I have personal thoughts on this, but I want weigh everyone's opinions first. I also bring an example to this discussion.

People give all characters too much respect.
You see something like this in Melee with Fox mains fighting characters like Yoshi or Pikachu.
A player of a top tier should be playing the MU like they're using a better character, abusing the tools some others cannot deal with.
Sheik players with needlecamping, Rosa players with jab/uair, Bayo players with Witch Twist/Witch Time, Diddy players with banana/fair and no commitment, etc.

 

[TDK]

Hi. Long time no see people. Well I didn't read all 200+ pages of things I missed on the old thread nor do I want to. I have read 45 of them here......and they're mostly the same.

Anyway I come here to present a question: Why do certain top or high tier characters fail utilize their tools against objectively worse characters?

I have personal thoughts on this, but I want weigh everyone's opinions first. I also bring an example to this discussion.

People just want to play their own game regardless of what character their opponent is.

Adaptation based on your opponent's character and play style isn't really a thing in smash 4 yet.

 

[Laken64]

Don't talk to me about Mewtwo footsies until peeps start using that glorious d-smash.

D smash is one of the more under rated tools M2 has, it has little end lag and if your opponent tries to punish you can easily spotdodge, uptilt and upsmash. I've seen WaDi do this to Ally in TBH6:

 

[PURGE THEM LIKE THE]

Fox and Sonic's neutrals aren't that amazing compared to the tip top ones.
For best neutrals off memory I'd say it's something like this, in no order:

Mewtwo has an amazing reward off touching you with any of his neutral tools that are relatively safe
chargeable projectile that can be canceled rockets you up there, and the fact that it increases mobility while doing absurd damage(what is it, 26%?)
Good mobility
can kill you or do +20-30% for touching his shield
good jumpsquat
Very big hitboxes with good damage
Decent/good options out of run
Short hop airdodge is ridiculous
His approach options aren't amazing, but like Sheik he almost never has to approach so that doesn't matter
good at converting to death situations once he wins neutral
says "nah" to most attempts at shielding

It's like a Bayo thing where his neutral may look weaker than the others in the top 5 neutrals on paper, but the risk reward is so heavily skewed in his favour that it pushes him up there with the best.

There's quite a bit of incorrect or misleading stuff here.

Shadow ball is not limit. It doesn't affect his mobility.

Besides a 13% throw, kill throws, and up smash, Mewtwo's fastest out of shield options are a total of 11 frames for forward air and 12 for neutral air. Forward air and neutral air are the only ones with any chance of doing 20-30%, but why would you get on the character for the enemy misspacing an attack that badly? Mewtwo has bottom-tier traction. Hitting his shield safely isn't that hard. Also, frame 11 for an out of shield option is pretty mediocre. Down tilt isn't an out of shield option, though it would only be 1 frame behind neutral air. However, you won't get 20-30% off of it if you don't hit the base of his tail. Consider that with his bad traction.

What hitboxes are that large? Down tilt? I guess it's pretty big, but only the base combos beyond a simple forward air, so it's not that big of a deal. Up tilt is pretty big, I suppose. It's totes unsafe, though. It can at least combo into an aerial if you get the right hitbox. I guess it's a decent anti-air. Back air is his biggest aerial, but it's frame 13 and extends his hurtbox before it even comes out. It also has the inverse tipper while being unsafe on shield up close. You could autocancel it to make a retreating base hit back air safe, but, like.....why? Up air reaches about as high as Captain Dashgrab's, so if you consider that very big, no comment. The hitboxes don't even exactly match the animation, though that isn't a big deal. Forward air is not a big hitbox. Neutral air loses every trade, so who cares?

Confusion is his biggest disjoint in the front. It does 9% and leads to nothing.

Mewtwo has 3 options out of a run that are any different from the rest of the cast: confusion, shadow ball, and jump-canceled up smash. I mention up smash because he slides far. It's in no way safe. Confusion is worthwhile only for retreating, and it's just 9%. Shadow ball is good. Wavebounce/b-reverse it, and you have a totes safe on shield 25% killing hitbox-beating shield-slamming projectile that moves you forward or backwards.

Mewtwo has only 3 combos of which I know that actually convert to death, two of which require the inconsistencies of neutral air: down tilt-neutral air-up air-forward air at the ledge (works at like 30% on Shiek), down tilt-forward air-up air-forward air also at the ledge (also at like 30% on Shiek), and landing neutral air to up smash/ up throw (at, well, kill percents).

I suppose one could use the last hit of neutral air to lead to a kill move by autocanceling it, but that's so easy to see coming and just shield that I don't think it should count.

Mewtwo really only solidly beats shield at kill percents, when up and back throw are relevant. Blocking a fully charged shadow ball won't break your shield. However, it comes out on frame 23, so it's not TOO hard to dodge. It's frame 6 from the charging animation, but that leaves Mewtwo immobile. I wouldn't call taking like 15% from a pummel and a throw saying "nah" to shield. It's decent damage.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

Something I would love to see M2 players do more is use pp dtilts
If performed correctly you can hit with the base hit and end up with the same distance as a tipper dtilt meaning it doubles as a combo starter and safe poke. I would also like to see Teleport oos, it gets him out of most bad situations for free and if can even be ledge canceled to make it nearly unpunishable

 

[Man Li Gi]

People just want to play their own game regardless of what character their opponent is.

Adaptation based on your opponent's character and play style isn't really a thing in smash 4 yet.

When does it happen? I mean, when does it permeate across the board? I doubt there's a sudden aha moment in character development because even after being through 3 smash games and 3 SF and multiple MK games, and countless Tekkens, I still see categorical upsets. I don't know how higher tier characters can lose at all if they are evenly killed.

In other words, I doubt it's an adaptation that happens. It could just mean either the low tier can square up, or fear.

 

[TDK]

When does it happen? I mean, when does it permeate across the board? I doubt there's a sudden aha moment in character development because even after being through 3 smash games and 3 SF and multiple MK games, and countless Tekkens, I still see categorical upsets. I don't know how higher tier characters can lose at all if they are evenly killed.

In other words, I doubt it's an adaptation that happens. It could just mean either the low tier can square up, or fear.

What I meant is, instead of your opponent saying "Oh it's Ganon if I keep hitting Up Air you can't do anything" he decided to hang back and give you countless opportunities to get in, and once you got one hit he started playing scared.