Its still very good, but only at a level of optimization most people dont even consider. Also no one considers counterplay from Shulk's end. Buster Monado Utilts and Jump Monado Uairs are the main subjects when people like to talk about how good it is, even though Shulk has the technology to outright escape them. He could also use his mobility to stall threatening Monados out.
When Shulk uses Smash, I use Jump to stall it out... if this MU is played optimally it's probably
really lame lol. When it's not though, it's generally super fun.
Well.....since we're talking about Kirby and some of his top tier MUs, what about some of his High tier MUs?
Ness was considered pretty tough at first, but iirc, it's seen as near even.
Pikachu is seen as close to even as well, with Pika having the slight edge.
Villager.......I don't really know all I remember is some villager mains and Kirby's before saying it was even, but that was a long time ago.
Peach.....This is one I legit haven't seen so I have absolutely no clue.
Yoshi was considered his worst MU for a short time, but now if you play the MU right, it seems to be yoshi with only a slight advantage apparently.
CF.....yea it seems like we win, judging from Mike's MU chart, and by a noticeable amount too.
Bayonetta, again this one is so rarely done from what I have seen I have absolutely no clue.
Corrin I would assume would definitely be a tougher MU for Kirby.
So I am going off from what I remember/read/heard and judging by this.....his High tier MUs aren't too bad, likely better then his top tier, but we still haven't seen many of these played out, so to come out with a very agreeable results....it's going to be really tough.
Any Kirby mains or mains to the characters above have any clue?
You basically summarized how I feel about most of these matchups. Peach remains one of the few characters in the game I feel we could have a legit advantage over, because nothing about her feels particularly oppressive. Her KO moves are relatively easy to avoid, and she doesn't dramatically outspeed us or have much better frame data/range/damage output.
I talked about this a little while ago, I strongly believe that Kirby's "CP potential" comes from a biased combo of high level players who dont know the matchup lose or almost lose to Kirby on stream & low-mid level players autopiloting their way into Kirby's traps and not having the punish game to abuse his weaknesses correctly.
Yeah I wanted to mention this as well. Matchup inexperience is very real, but despite that, most top players don't even lose to Kirby. Kirby's biggest accomplishments so far mostly include
almost beating top players, which doesn't bode well when MU inexperience is still a factor. The Kirby matchup really isn't hard to figure out. The biggest hurdle for certain characters is that, if he can crouch under some of your most-used attacks, you'll need to suppress your muscle memory for those attacks. Other than that, he's straightforward. He doesn't have any crazy hitboxes to worry about. If he's hitting you with something, you just DI away and/or upward. It's not like some combos in this game, where you need ot mix up your DI to fool your opponent, or stuff like ROB's Upair, which requires unintuitive DI to survive. Kirby grabs you? DI away. Kirby uptilts you and you're a fastfaller? Just take a couple seconds to relax, and then jump out once you start tumbling. The only situation I can think of is if Kirby trips you with Dtilt,
don't just hold away all the time, because rolling away is the most predictable reaction, leading to easy punishes.
Personally, I've thought of
for a while now as a character that's similar to
on the ground, and similar to
in the air... but with better kill throws.
On the ground, Kirby and Fox have extremely similar movesets. Backflip kick Upsmash, propel-forward Fsmash, and a Dsmash that hits on both sides at once. The main difference is that Fox's smashes are weaker, but faster. As for tilts, Kirby and Fox have Jabs and tilts with similar range and frame data that cover similar areas. Dash Attack is... well, Kirby won't be using that.
In the air, Kirby and the Marios have very similar moves. Bair, Upair, and Nair are functionally similar, Dairs are all multihit, but functionally different. Fairs are the biggest difference, with Kirby's being more usable on a regular basis, while (Dr) Mario's Fairs are more useful for ending stocks. Also, most of Mario's aerials are faster and safer.
So why do
and
have much better results than
? Here's a big part of it:
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/AirAcceleration
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/DashSpeed
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/AirSpeed
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/FallSpeed
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Weight
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/DashLength
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/WalkSpeed
etc.
Also, having multiple jumps is usually more detrimental than advantageous, because it prevents characters from being able to ascend quickly and continue combos/pressure. You know all those Upair combos you see Mario/
Fox getting that quickly rack up a ton of damage? Kirby can't dream of that, even if it was technically possible with his Upair, because of his slow airspeed/multijumps.
RIP Upper Cutter.
