Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Emblem Lord]

Troubling neutral?

Hmmmm?

I disagree. His neutral is in fact, real af.

 

[Wintermelon43]

@Dabuz Can you please explain Marth being top tier? All you listed where that many players are doing good with him. Is it really only because of that? Because his strengths aren't good enough for top 29, let along top 15, and his matchups aganist the top tiers are pretty bad.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Troubling neutral?

Hmmmm?

I disagree. His neutral is in fact, real af.

he has a limited number of good pokes (Dtilt, Fair, Nair, Ftilt) and if he's not controlling the match, he struggles. Not to mention his reward is not good enough for his efforts (imo at least).

 

[Wintermelon43]

Can someone help me out?

I'm starting to feel like Roy isn't actually so bad again.

Please beat me down with cold, unrelenting facts.

A skilled roy simply could not beat a Fox

 

[Emblem Lord]

he has a limited number of good pokes (Dtilt, Fair, Nair, Ftilt) and if he's not controlling the match, he struggles. Not to mention his reward is not good enough for his efforts (imo at least).

Ok so for the record, Roy has 4 solid pokes while most chars have maybe two that can't be punished on block.

Roy is in a good spot in terms of pokes, especially since nair is really good.

 

[dakotaisgreat]

A skilled roy simply could not beat a Fox

Of all the things said so far this is the most haunting to me.

The up airs... so many up airs...

 

[Y2Kay]

Yeah Roy's neutral isn't really the issue. It's ultimately the disadvantage that holds him back.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm expecting Aba to, as per usual, carry the best results from Japan.

I think it's gonna be Komorikiri this time. Unless he makes poor decisions aka 'opting' to use Cloud over Sonic at wrong time he'd have to be pretty unlucky to not make it very far.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Ok so for the record, Roy has 4 solid pokes while most chars have maybe two that can't be punished on block.

Roy is in good spot in terms of pokes, especially since nair is really good.

Roy's pokes are pretty subpar though compared to the cast, and even if he wins neutral, he has like pre-buff Marth punish game lol.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Oh I agree. Generally his best pokes don't lead to anything substantial. To get the goods, Roy has to take a risk.

He is not rewarded for being safe. He is rewarded for being a little reckless. But what happens when recklessness gets you hit or you lose stage control? That is his issue.

 

[JustSomeScrub]

Tried to watch the video and I just couldnt.

Just could not help but focus on the plethora of bad decisions Void kept making. Dude did a point blank bair on Ryu while rising. what in the nine levels of hell was that?

This is the type of play people use to justify why Ryu is godlike? Void had a SIGNIFICANT percent lead and INSISTED on trying to rushdown Ryu and he did so VERY unsafely.

Guys....seriously. What in the world?

I went over this earlier.

If Sheik just tries to lame out Ryu she's only increasing the chances of him living to ridiculous percent where Ryu will kill her even earlier than normal. And eventually she'll have to approach anyway unless she's trying to time him out. It's pick your poison.

I agree that was a really bad option but if you choose to be aggressive, you're going to over commit eventually. Nobodies perfect.

@Dabuz Can you please explain Marth being top tier? All you listed where that many players are doing good with him. Is it really only because of that? Because his strengths aren't good enough for top 29, let along top 15, and his matchups aganist the top tiers are pretty bad.

Where are you getting Marth doing poorly versus top tiers?

It's well known sword characters can be an issue for Mario.

I'd argue he does okay versus Rosalina too.

Leo used Marth versus Mr. R's Sheik recently and took several games.

 

[Emblem Lord]

That was just a one example. He just made a series of really poor choices. A player of his caliber shouldnt be tilting so hard when they are winning. That is madness. Rising Bair? While the opponent is holding shield?

What?!?!?

Void HAD that game. Actually to be honest most of his games vs Trela were HIS to win.

He has given Trela wins several times.

You either get outplayed or give your opponent victory. Watch his sets and tell me Trela outplayed him EVERY single time. Yes yes mistakes happen but mistakes are not the same as just straight up making really poor choices and bad gambles.

One is an error in judgement. The other is LACK of proper judgement to begin with.

To compare watch the match he lost to Darkshad and made many many good choices. He DID lose a game (idk if he lost or won the set) but the game he lost was due to Dark betting it all and really just getting a lucky hit where Void most likely didnt dare to think he would take such a risk. That sucks, but he DID play well.

 

[JustSomeScrub]

That was just a one example. He just made a series of really poor choices. A player of his caliber shouldnt be tilting so hard when they are winning. That is madness. Rising Bair? While the opponent is holding shield?

What?!?!?

Void HAD that game. Actually to be honest most of his games vs Trela were HIS to win.

He has given Trela wins several times.

You either get outplayed or give your opponent victory. What his sets and tell me Trela outplayed him EVERY single time. Yes yes mistakes happen but mistakes are not the same as just straight up making really poor choices and bad gambles.

One is an error in judgement. The other is LACK of proper judgement to begin with.

Well that's my point.

Thanks to rage and kill power differences Ryu doesn't necessarily have to outplay the Sheik to win the matchup. He can lose neutral 80+ percent of the time and end up winning anyway.

If Ryu's recovery or disadvantage state in general was as bad as other heavy hitters, it would be reasonable to expect the likes of Sheik to get enough off every opening to make up for this. But Ryu's disadvantageous state is pretty darn good for a heavy hitter when you compare him to the likes of DK, Falcon or Ganon.

Now even if you want to argue that Void's decisions were so bad it doesn't accurately reflect how the matchup should go or makes Ryu seem stronger than he actually is, keep in mind Trela has beaten a lot more than just Void. He's also beaten Vinnie (another top Sheik). He's taken multiple sets off the likes of Larry.

Also good players of any character tend to make you do stupid things you quickly regret.

 

[Illuminose]

i should post my EVO predictions

But related, and among them; I doubt Ranai will crack top 32. Bold guess, but I'm expecting Aba to, as per usual, carry the best results from Japan.

Ranai straight up has one of the easiest possible brackets of any top player at EVO. His run is Wrath -> Xzax -> Trela -> Nairo -> Abadango (most likely, at least) starting at r2 pools, in order to get to top 8 winners side.

Ranai literally spent a year annihilating Komo's Sonic -- I don't really think Wrath has a fighting chance. He dropped a game 2 to Xzax at Genesis 3 and subsequently double 2 stocked him -- unless Ranai's play is very poor I don't see him losing. Ranai vs Trela is pretty much a guaranteed wash that I don't think I need to explain. Not only does Villager beat ZSS, but Nairo is not good at the matchup -- he has a loss to MJG ffs, lol. It was a while ago, but when Ranai played Nairo in USA vs World crews at FAT, Nairo got destroyed. I'd chalk the close set against Marss up to Marss being better at the matchup than Nairo and the absurd level to which Marss was playing. And Abadango has lost to kept and Nyaha Villager, which leads me to believe that he won't do well agaist Ranai.

If Ranai doesn't do well at EVO I'd be extremely surprised. He's not going to be rusty due to how much he's been practicing and his bracket is easy. By any odds you could muster, Ranai should make it to top 8 winners side.

 

[Emblem Lord]

She can def exploit his recovery. His disadvantage is ok, but hard to exploit if Ryu says screw it and goes for the ledge.

I just feel Sheiks have to learn to chill a bit and be cool with the fact that Ryu will live awhile. Take the easy kill set-ups like ftilt to uair at 140ish and be content. No need to get wild. Needle his tatsu or bouncing fish. Keep it simple and effective. Going for crazy landing traps gets you FAed in the jaw. Don't do it fam.

Also high level Sheik vs Ryu is almost always close. This indicates to me that its probably even. Ryu does not steam roll this character. I dont think her neutral really allows that.

 

[ARGHETH]

@Dabuz Can you please explain Marth being top tier? All you listed where that many players are doing good with him. Is it really only because of that? Because his strengths aren't good enough for top 29, let along top 15, and his matchups aganist the top tiers are pretty bad.

What? He has decent MUs against top/high tiers. At worst, he's in the top half of the cast (~27th).

 

[JustSomeScrub]

She can def exploit his recovery. His disadvantage is ok, but hard to exploit if Ryu says screw it and goes for the ledge.

I just feel Sheiks have to learn to chill a bit and be cool with the fact that Ryu will live awhile. Take the easy kill set-ups like ftilt to uair at 140ish and be content. No need to get wild. Needle his tatsu or bouncing fish. Keep it simple and effective. Going for crazy landing traps gets you FAed in the jaw. Don't do it fam.

Also high level Sheik vs Ryu is almost always close. This indicates to me that its probably even. Ryu does not steam roll this character. I dont think her neutral really allows that.

Again, if the Sheik is letting Ryu live to 140+, she better be prepared to die at 50 or lower (I've seen Sheik die at 59 when Ryu was only at 90, so not even near full rage yet).

I agree that the matchup is probably even if the Sheik plays defensive.

 

[Das Koopa]

Ranai straight up has one of the easiest possible brackets of any top player at EVO. His run is Wrath -> Xzax -> Trela -> Nairo -> Abadango (most likely, at least) starting at r2 pools, in order to get to top 8 winners side.

Ranai literally spent a year annihilating Komo's Sonic -- I don't really think Wrath has a fighting chance. He dropped a game 2 to Xzax at Genesis 3 and subsequently double 2 stocked him -- unless Ranai's play is very poor I don't see him losing. Ranai vs Trela is pretty much a guaranteed wash that I don't think I need to explain. Not only does Villager beat ZSS, but Nairo is not good at the matchup -- he has a loss to MJG ffs, lol. It was a while ago, but when Ranai played Nairo in USA vs World crews at FAT, Nairo got destroyed. I'd chalk the close set against Marss up to Marss being better at the matchup than Nairo and the absurd level to which Marss was playing. And Abadango has lost to kept and Nyaha Villager, which leads me to believe that he won't do well agaist Ranai.

If Ranai doesn't do well at EVO I'd be extremely surprised. He's not going to be rusty due to how much he's been practicing and his bracket is easy. By any odds you could muster, Ranai should make it to top 8 winners side.

The only "Easy" one on that list sounds like Xzax.

2015 doesn't matter anymore and I wouldn't rely on it to determine how Wrath or Nairo will stand against Ranai. It's plausible for Ranai to do really well judging by his G3 run but I have a lot more faith in Komo, Aba, and even Kamemushi since all three have been active for most of the year.

 

[JustSomeScrub]

Ranai straight up has one of the easiest possible brackets of any top player at EVO. His run is Wrath -> Xzax -> Trela -> Nairo -> Abadango (most likely, at least) starting at r2 pools, in order to get to top 8 winners side.

Ranai literally spent a year annihilating Komo's Sonic -- I don't really think Wrath has a fighting chance. He dropped a game 2 to Xzax at Genesis 3 and subsequently double 2 stocked him -- unless Ranai's play is very poor I don't see him losing. Ranai vs Trela is pretty much a guaranteed wash that I don't think I need to explain. Not only does Villager beat ZSS, but Nairo is not good at the matchup -- he has a loss to MJG ffs, lol. It was a while ago, but when Ranai played Nairo in USA vs World crews at FAT, Nairo got destroyed. I'd chalk the close set against Marss up to Marss being better at the matchup than Nairo and the absurd level to which Marss was playing. And Abadango has lost to kept and Nyaha Villager, which leads me to believe that he won't do well agaist Ranai.

If Ranai doesn't do well at EVO I'd be extremely surprised. He's not going to be rusty due to how much he's been practicing and his bracket is easy. By any odds you could muster, Ranai should make it to top 8 winners side.

Does Komo play as campy as Wrath though? Ally usually beats SGK but lost to Wrath and 6WX when they timed him out.

Also can someone explain what makes Villager terrible for Ryu? Is it just because he can't catch him? In which case I'd point out lately Ryus have been doing better versus top Sonics and Sonic is much better at running away then Villager. But I'm assuming there's more to it than that.

At any rate if Ranai or Kamemushi win Evo it will be the first time in Smash 4 history a perceived non-top 10 character (by NA tier lists) won a super national solo.

I guess there's also Aba with Mewtwo at Pound but that was after the buffs and he's generally seen as top 10 material now plus he used other characters along the way.

 

[Djmarcus44]

The quote in question is the exact same with context.
You don't just ignore a character's negative qualities and deem them a top tier just because one world-class potentially top 5 player did fantastically with them.
"He's still top tier if Ranai does well at EVO" is a bad statement no matter how you slice it.

This is a pretty common problem that happens on this board. When people think that a character is underrated, they sometimes ignore obvious weaknesses in the character. People also overexaggerate weaknesses (or claim that a character has weaknesses in areas where weaknesses aren't there) when they think that a character is bad or overrated.

I have seen several people claim that Mewtwo has a great disadvantage state even though it isn't true. Furthermore, I have also seen a lot of people claim that Diddy Kong is better than Sheik at everything even though Sheik's disadvantage state is better than Diddy Kong's disadvantage state by a considerable margin.

As a Mii Gunner main, I have even more examples of people overexaggerating the weaknesses my character. For some reason, some people think that Mii Gunner's recovery is worse than Robin's even though Gunner's recovery is objectively better in almost every way. In addition, Mii Gunner gets more people claiming that the character's CQC is bad than and combined even though Gunner has a better CQC than both of these characters.

Characters that are thought to be low tier aren't the only characters whose weaknesses get overexaggerated. There are also plenty of instances where people have claimed that ,,, and have bad neutrals.

In conclusion, results are important, but we also must account for the tools of each character when we try to place them in a tier list.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If you can beat Komorikiri, you can beat any Sonic.

Though I agree that calling Ranai's bracket 'easy' is a bit of an exaggeration it's probably among the best he could've possibly gotten. Xzax is actually his hardest opponent before facing off against Abadango.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What? He has decent MUs against top/high tiers. At worst, he's in the top half of the cast (~27th).

He got backhanded by Shaya last time he was spouting his Marth nonsense. He's just been hiding until now hoping that we forgot.

He's basically another version of Larry nowadays and should be ignored as much. Marth's pretty good. I would say potentially the best FE character but Corrin finally started getting some results so I have to hold off on that until I see if Corrin keeps getting said results or if it was a standard midtier "2-3 week long splash in the pan before fading away again". Marth's results have been solid for months now, he's clearly better than the ignorant say like over on Reddit or whereever. Just a question of where exactly he falls in the upper 40% of the cast.

 

[Wintermelon43]

I went over this earlier.

If Sheik just tries to lame out Ryu she's only increasing the chances of him living to ridiculous percent where Ryu will kill her even earlier than normal. And eventually she'll have to approach anyway unless she's trying to time him out. It's pick your poison.

I agree that was a really bad option but if you choose to be aggressive, you're going to over commit eventually. Nobodies perfect.



Where are you getting Marth doing poorly versus top tiers?

It's well known sword characters can be an issue for Mario.

I'd argue he does okay versus Rosalina too.

Leo used Marth versus Mr. R's Sheik recently and took several games.

What? He has decent MUs against top/high tiers. At worst, he's in the top half of the cast (~27th).

Not really. He beats Mario, but he loses to every other top tier (Except maybe Rosalina). imo aganist the top and high tiers, he goes -2 aganist , maybe as well as losing -2 to That's A LOT of -2s. I don't think a top 27 or so character would lose -2 to 9-12 characters

 

[Das Koopa]

Like, to explain it this way - ZeRo is a better player than Ranai, and he was out for a significant period of time, and he came back and had to cling to life against every top player he fought against sans Nairo at GOML. It should've been "easy" for him to beat some of the players he struggled against, but it wasn't, because those players got better in ZeRo's absence and one of them (Ally) ultimately reverse 3-0'd ZeRo into second place.

Players have gotten better in just the last several months, and Ranai has had an even more extensive absence, with his brief performances at tournies being considerably poor compared to his max potential we had seen. I question his ability to go the distance because he's going up against players who have all gotten remarkably better and most of which who've had insanely good runs the last few months.

-Trela, in spite of his CEO bust, has bodied all of SoCal's regulars.
-Wrath is probably the Southeast's best player at the moment and has done remarkably well at numerous tournies, including a 13th at CEO, and a win on Ally that forced Ally to go Cloud on the runback.
-Nairo's loss to MJG in September of 2015 doesn't say anything about his chances now, nearly a year later.
-Abadango has had consistently good performances at majors all year outside of his start at G3. He's one of the most consistently good players when he comes to the U.S., in fact.

I could see Ranai losing to any one of them, and while I'd love to see Ranai succeed and I'd love to see Villager be seen as a dangerous meta threat again, I'm leveling my expectations and considering the (imo likely) possibility that Ranai won't do very well compared to his best. Add onto all of this the fact that upsets are happening on the regular, and you have a recipe for him plausibly getting the dreaded unexpected 49th.

 

[Wintermelon43]

He got backhanded by Shaya last time he was spouting his Marth nonsense. He's just been hiding until now hoping that we forgot.

He's basically another version of Larry nowadays and should be ignored as much. Marth's pretty good. I would say potentially the best FE character but Corrin finally started getting some results so I have to hold off on that until I see if Corrin keeps getting said results or if it was a standard midtier "2-3 week long splash in the pan before fading away again". Marth's results have been solid for months now, he's clearly better than the ignorant say like over on Reddit or whereever. Just a question of where exactly he falls in the upper 40% of the cast.

Ike is probably better than both Marth and Corrin though, even if he is a little overrated (Although Corrin has actually been getting results lately so there's a possibility he might be better)

 

[|RK|]

Not really. He beats Mario, but he loses to every other top tier (Except maybe Rosalina). imo aganist the top and high tiers, he goes -2 aganist , maybe as well as losing -2 to That's A LOT of -2s. I don't think a top 27 or so character would lose -2 to 9-12 characters

Bro, where are you getting these MU numbers?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ranai has massive experience against Sonic and ZSS and he's experienced against Ryu in addition to having a clear matchup advantage. I'd say he's solidly favored against Trela and Wrath and slightly favored against Nairo. Xzax and Abadango are up in the air.

 

[JustSomeScrub]

Marth being top tier at any rate is a very interesting idea and as Dabuz said, he's starting to see some serious results including wins over Nairo and Mr. R.

I think a lot of people assumed when Smash 4 came out that he was terrible because he is SO MUCH worse than what he was in Brawl/Melee.

But what we all failed to realize is that just about every Brawl top tier got nerfed hard and Smash 4 toned down OPness a ton in general so a seemingly tame character can be really good in this game.

For some perspective Diddy is still considered top tier in Smash 4 despite only having 1 banana that disappears on hit/block and loses to most moves. In Brawl he had two that didn't vanish on hit/block and beat most moves cleanly and he had an infinite zero-death with a single banana (Zinoto was infamous for it) + extended glide toss dual banana combos/confirms. Despite all this Diddy was only considered 4th at best in the game.

So while comparing Marth to his previous iterations makes him look mediocre, relative to the rest of Smash 4's cast, he might actually be pretty darn good and had we always just looked at him as a Smash 4 character as opposed to a drastically nerfed Brawl/Melee one, he might have been rated a lot higher from the start.

Then add massive Sheik/Diddy/ZSS nerfs and suddenly Marth looks even better.

Like, to explain it this way - ZeRo is a better player than Ranai, and he was out for a significant period of time, and he came back and had to cling to life against every top player he fought against sans Nairo at GOML. It should've been "easy" for him to beat some of the players he struggled against, but it wasn't, because those players got better in ZeRo's absence and one of them (Ally) ultimately reverse 3-0'd ZeRo into second place.

Players have gotten better in just the last several months, and Ranai has had an even more extensive absence, with his brief performances at tournies being considerably poor compared to his max potential we had seen. I question his ability to go the distance because he's going up against players who have all gotten remarkably better and most of which who've had insanely good runs the last few months.

-Trela, in spite of his CEO bust, has bodied all of SoCal's regulars.
-Wrath is probably the Southeast's best player at the moment and has done remarkably well at numerous tournies, including a 13th at CEO, and a win on Ally that forced Ally to go Cloud on the runback.
-Nairo's loss to MJG in September of 2015 doesn't say anything about his chances now, nearly a year later.
-Abadango has had consistently good performances at majors all year outside of his start at G3. He's one of the most consistently good players when he comes to the U.S., in fact.

I could see Ranai losing to any one of them, and while I'd love to see Ranai succeed and I'd love to see Villager be seen as a dangerous meta threat again, I'm leveling my expectations and considering the (imo likely) possibility that Ranai won't do very well compared to his best. Add onto all of this the fact that upsets are happening on the regular, and you have a recipe for him plausibly getting the dreaded unexpected 49th.

Ranai's situation is not the same as Zero.

Zero uses Diddy and Sheik. With or without Zero being at tournaments these are probably the most commonly seen characters are high level play outside of maybe Cloud. You bring up Ally's win over him but Ally plays Zinoto all the time, he could get better at the matchup despite Zero's absence. Larry also lost to Zero several times before he finally beat him.

When it comes to Villager however, no other player comes anywhere near the level of Rana going off results. So he has matchup inexperience at that level on his side. Nobody is practising/studying for Villager as he's not seen as a tournament threat if Ranai is not around.

Now add Evo being B03 giving his opponents even less opportunity to adjust to him. And Smash 4 is not a game where you can steam roll mid tiers (if that's what Villager is) with zero MU experience.

 

[blackghost]

im pretty sure weve talked about this before. marth greatest block to getting more respect is cloud. it doesnt boil down to marth alone. is marth good? yes pretty good id say but theb you look at clouds tools and design and it just seems like marth, the original, is the "other swordsman."

 

[JustSomeScrub]

im pretty sure weve talked about this before. marth greatest block to getting more respect is cloud. it doesnt boil down to marth alone. is marth good? yes pretty good id say but theb you look at clouds tools and design and it just seems like marth, the original, is the "other swordsman."

Well both characters could be top tier. It's not like if Cloud is number 1 it means Marth can't be number 7 or something. Just because Brawl MK was a much better "sword guy" then Brawl Marth, that didn't mean Marth wasn't also a top tier contender.

Also Marth has some things over Cloud. He has a better recovery, arguably better edge guard game (he can afford to go a lot deeper than Cloud can) and more potential kill power than Cloud when he doesn't have meter provided you get tippers off (how consistent this can be at top level is debatable).

When Leo faced off against Mr. R recently, he chose to go Marth over his Cloud and did extremely well. I believe he took one set (and then Mr. R took the bracket reset). And I doubt that was because he didn't want to use Cloud to win, he probably has a high opinion of Marth and possibly thinks he does better versus Sheik than Cloud.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Bro, where are you getting these MU numbers?

Out of his ass. Doing what he got yelled at not to do: throwing around claims with nothing to back them up or being super vague about them. People need to stop replying to him and just ignore him.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I'm curious- people are beginning to claim that Marth could be arguably top tier, and if not, he should still be placed high in the tier list. At least, that's the simple way to put it. Now while my views are slightly different, I'm not here to argue, I'm here to ask to those of who you do believe this, what does this mean for Lucina?

 

[Pazzo.]

I'm curious- people are beginning to claim that Marth could be arguably top tier, and if not, he should still be placed high in the tier list. At least, that's the simple way to put it. Now while my views are slightly different, I'm not here to argue, I'm here to ask to those of who you do believe this, what does this mean for Lucina?

Good question. I've always wondered how Lucina really compares to Marth, especially with arguably better versions of Marth's normals/Shield Breaker.

 

[Djent]

In order to not get top 32, Ranai will have to lose to both Wrath and Xzax. Even though they'll be challenging, the odds that he does that poorly are slim. He's got one of the easiest brackets to semis, all things considered. You also have to keep in mind that this is the guy who came out of a year+ hibernation to beat 9B in Brawl with a character no one knew he played. The reason I think Ranai will make top 32 is the same reason I refuse to consider Villager top tier based on his performance alone: he is a prodigy, full stop.

The one who's really boned is Earth, who somehow got put in a death pool. His fight vs. M2K is up in the air, but I do think he'll beat Pugwest and/or Z based on matchup experience, so at least he's got that going for him. Other Japanese players who got rough brackets include Raito (Ned, NAKAT, and IC), HIKARU (Fatality and Falln), YOC (Nairo, ImHip, JacobT, and DJ Jack) and Nyanko (Zinoto, Aphro, and Darkshad). I also think 9B could miss out on top 32 again, but only because his Mewtwo actually isn't very good. Finally, Rain might find a way to lose early because he rarely does well overseas.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If Earth beat M2K I would be 0% surprised actually.

 

[Ninety]

Bro, where are you getting these MU numbers?

~~theory~~

 

[Pazzo.]

If Earth beat M2K I would be 0% surprised actually.

How so?

 

[MistressRemilia]

How so?

M2K has absolutely 0 experience in the Pit matchup, Earth does have Cloud experience.
It's not like the skill gap between these two is big either: we're talking about one of the best japanese threats, who's been carrying the results of his character for a while, and giving one of the better representation of Japan's potency in tournaments with his 13th place at Genesis 3.

 

[Ropalme1914]

HIKARU (Fatality and Falln).

https://twitter.com/FatalityFalcon/status/753323828835680257 Fatality will not go to EVO anymore.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Out of his ***. Doing what he got yelled at not to do: throwing around claims with nothing to back them up or being super vague about them. People need to stop replying to him and just ignore him.

Because having a differant opinion totally means I'm saying random crap. I stay generally vague because I don't really feel like writing a five-paragraph essay for it; I COULD do that if I wanted but I don't spend all day going on smashboards.



Also, as for the Ranai debate, imo he should be able to beat Wrath and Xzax for sure (Or at least not lose to both)

As for the others though; I don't think he could beat any of them; maybe Nairo because of Umebura FAT, but Trela has been doing great recently aganist top players,and he lost to Abadango recently iirc