Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[thehard]

1st: Marss

2nd: Salem

3rd: #THE Tweek

4th: DMG James

5th: iQHQ Raptor

5th: Pugwest

7th: CT Vex

7th: Detonate | Jtails

....

13th: Dabuz

17th: Liquid | Nairo

 

[FallofBrawl]

It must be rather disheartening for Pugwest to use Marth against Cloud. It's almost sad to see how superior (barring recovery) he is compared to Marth.

Pugwest played amazingly, but he should consider a more viable main, he will only put a handicap on himself. Tweek has apparently done so, it seems like it works great so far.

Well I mean he already beat Tweek in winners, I don't see him handicapping himself that much if at all, especially with his level of understanding Marth. Even when Salem beat him, the games were nothing but close. Marth is still viable in this game IMO.

 

[Jaguar360]

1st: Marss

2nd: Salem

3rd: #THE Tweek

4th: DMG James

5th: iQHQ Raptor

5th: Pugwest

7th: CT Vex

7th: Detonate | Jtails

....

13th: Dabuz

17th: Liquid | Nairo

Nairo went ZSS for his earlier matches and against Salem Game 1. Bayo was only for Salem game 2 and against Dabuz. James might have also went Luigi in some matches, but I never saw any of his matches on stream.

 

[thehard]

I was more encouraged than anything with the Pugwest/Tweek set, they kept it close. Marth's looking good to me.

Btw Frostbite results:

Sheik gonna dominate the game and all that

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I've just realized just how much of a help having a kill-confirm-based meta is going to help us with our neutral. Not having to focus on reading your opponent for kills (which leads into inconsistent punishes and doesn't spread the message to your opponent that they should do everything in their power to not get hit and to not do things that may lead up into getting hit) leaves only room for the neutral (this is what makes ssb64 and trad. Fighters play like they do).
This is so awesome. Totally thankful Ryu, Metaknight, Bayonetta, ZSS, Sheik and Rosa are good characters with awesome advantage states. Just a random revelation lol. I may be picking up Ryu btw he's super fun.

 

[Hippieslayer]

I've just realized just how much of a help having a kill-confirm-based meta is going to help us with our neutral. Not having to focus on reading your opponent for kills (which leads into inconsistent punishes and doesn't spread the message to your opponent that they should do everything in their power to not get hit and to not do things that may lead up into getting hit) leaves only room for the neutral (this is what makes ssb64 and trad. Fighters play like they do).
This is so awesome. Totally thankful Ryu, Metaknight, Bayonetta, ZSS, Sheik and Rosa are good characters with awesome advantage states. Just a random revelation lol. I may be picking up Ryu btw he's super fun.

Cannot comprehend, syntax exoticism limit breached; double negations abound. Chunking capacity insufficient for processing of parenthesis whilst retaining adjoining sentence in working memory. However; yes.

 

[Luco]

Lucas....like...BY FAR!!!

Cuz like..hes not actually low tier and stuff.

If you have a hit confirm into a kill and can confirm from 0 to 45% off a grab, you are not low tier.

It's a rule.

Or something.

It's also relevant to mention Lucas goes even with or outright beats quite a few random higher tiers. For the record I don't think he does particularly badly against Bayo.

He's a pretty awesome secondary for my Ness though, because he does vastly better against the likes of Sonic, Rosa, Ryu and probably even chars like Link / TL. Pacman I wouldn't know about though.

 

[FlynnCL]

How does he confirm that much damage? Unless you're talking about footstool stuff, but that is super difficult! It's a shame that neutral-aerial is probably his best combo starter and it's the easiest attack to SDI in the game...

From a down throw you can cover some horizontal SDI, but vertical isn't much of an option unless you waste your double jump which already cuts your combo. Even if they don't SDI enough in time, a decent amount of SDI diagonally away cuts his combos early.

Neutral-aerial at short hop heights can be SDI'd up or away, and due to its inability to auto cancel at that height means it can be punished on hit... I mean, even Bowser can get out from one side of Lucas to another with mediocre SDI inputs and he's massive!

I used to think this move was amazing but against opponents that wiggle that control stick like there's no tomorrow it definitely makes his punish game very restricted...

 

[Megamang]

Most lucas i play against mix it up between fair and dair, both of which can easily lead to regrab situations if they play their cards right/read you/pursue advantage. Uair forgoes the regrab chance instead for quick damage and placing you above him, which ranges from fine to terrible depending on who you are.

If i get confirmed into the grab, 45 to 50% is definitely a possibility.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Although I wouldn't say he can easily confirm 0-45% off a grab. Outside of extremely difficult footstool stuff his main tool for combos seems to be neutral-aerial, which might be one of the easiest attacks to SDI in the whole game due to its multi-hit properties, high hitlag, 2.0 SDI multiplier and relatively small hitbox.

From my experience SDI is just too good against this move. From a down throw you can cover some horizontal SDI, but vertical isn't much of an option unless you waste your double jump which already cuts your combo. Even if they don't SDI enough in time, a decent amount of SDI diagonally away from Lucas also cuts his combos early.

Neutral-aerial at short hop heights can be SDI'd up or away, and due to its inability to auto cancel at that height means it can be punished on hit. I've been hit by Mario's back-air even when trying to fade back to cover SDI away. Even Bowser can get out from one side of Lucas to another with mediocre SDI inputs and he's massive!

I used to think this move was amazing but against opponents that wiggle that control stick like there's no tomorrow it's definitely problematic and requires reads just to even deal its full damage.

One of my online sparring partners regularly hits those difficult foostool combos and hes no execution monster so it cant be THAT hard.

 

[Luco]

One of my online sparring partners regularly hits those difficult foostool combos and hes no execution monster so it cant be THAT hard.

If we're talking footstool combos, you can get those things up to 70%+ damage in one go if you do it from 0%.

But it's different execution based on different characters and it's easy to miss the second footstool. Probably about the level of difficulty of pulling off a complete 0-death CG from ICs without screwing up once, although they're very different types of combos.

 

[Peppermint1201]

One of my online sparring partners regularly hits those difficult foostool combos and hes no execution monster so it cant be THAT hard.

are you talking about Xanos?

 

[Yikarur]

I could look for it but would you mind elaborating on what that is (if it's anything special that's not just fully allowing Mii sizes and customs). I'm highly interested in seeing the Miis receive access to their full kit, though I'm kind of the opinion that they should either be restricted to standard or guest size, or the "optimal" size (which IIRC is 25/0 for both?) for consistency.

Guest Miis only + Free Move choice. I think almost no one is trying to make sizes legal. They are pretty stupid to handle logitstically.

 

[Linkshot]

Guest Miis only + Free Move choice. I think almost no one is trying to make sizes legal. They are pretty stupid to handle logitstically.

The blanket rule I want for Miis is that you can use anything as long as you don't have to exit the game (Home -> Close Software) to do so, which means that sizes are allowed if you have a personal Mii on your 3DS to upload.

 

[Routa]

Or what if... Just listen to me... Every system... Every system had 4 different sizes already made: 0:0, 25:0, 50:0 and 0:100 (thous are the most common ones). You know systems already had them in before the tournament? Am I a genius or what?

But seriously this is more "ideological" problem than anything. Anyways let's jump to our ordinary discussion shall we?

 

[Yikarur]

The blanket rule I want for Miis is that you can use anything as long as you don't have to exit the game (Home -> Close Software) to do so, which means that sizes are allowed if you have a personal Mii on your 3DS to upload.

You have to use an extren hardware to use a character.
That should not be allowed.
Guest Mii's only because they are the inherent mii's on every single set-up. You should not need to "modify" the game with outside hardware to make a character playable.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I was more encouraged than anything with the Pugwest/Tweek set, they kept it close. Marth's looking good to me.

Btw Frostbite results:

Sheik gonna dominate the game and all that

I'm from Sheikago so pardon my bias on this....but at Mashfest 2 last week....
1. ZeRo (Sheik, Cloud, Duddy)
2. Tyroy (Sheik)
3. Akiro (Sheik)
4. Big_Mak (Sheik)
5.Mikey Lenitia (Peach)
5. Ned (ZSS)
7. XAV (ZSS)
7. Can't recall ATM
(I really may have mixed those results up bar the top 3)

Yesterday at the House of Pain series
1. Big_Mak (Sheik)
2. Tyroy (Sheik)
3. Thor (Cloud)
4. Nicole (ZSS and Cloud)
5. Arma (ZSS and Sonic)
5. Shevy (Mario)
7. Sage (Bayo)
7. Jswiss (ROB)

So don't get it twisted,.... Sheik still dominates (no duh), but she has a little competition now. Also both NJ and Michigan were lacking a really strong Sheik main (Vinnie wasn't in attendance to KTAR IIRC).

 

[MF Viewtiful]

This maybe off topic but the excessive amounts of complaints on social media about Bayo is actually some super embarrassing clown shoes ****. Maybe cause I play a lot of Guilty Gear and MvC, but Bayo (or any other Smash character imo) ain't that cheap. Here's some good advice for some people out there

Spoiler: Words of Wisdom

But whatever, Street Fighter V is coming in two days and GG Revelator is also not far off. I know what I'll be spending more of my time on. #RiseUp #PleaseAddBaikenToConsoleRelease

 

[Gawain]

This maybe off topic but the excessive amounts of complaints on social media about Bayo is actually some super embarrassing clown shoes s**t. Maybe cause I play a lot of Guilty Gear and MvC, but Bayo (or any other Smash character imo) ain't that cheap. Here's some good advice for some people out there

Spoiler: Words of Wisdom

But whatever, Street Fighter V is coming in two days and GG Revelator is also not far off. I know what I'll be spending more of my time on. #RiseUp #PleaseAddBaikenToConsoleRelease

Yo, you KNOW I'm getting Revelator. It's looking good, I'm hyped up for it. If only UNIELst would get a console release now...

 

[PK Gaming]

I'm not trying to bag on him, but ZeRo's video about the futility of complaining was actually really good and it's a shame to see him to go against it.

 

[bc1910]

If you're talking about his latest Twitter rant I think it's more a roundabout way of defending Sheik than it is an attack on Bayo.

Anyway, what's everyone's opinion of a 3 queens, Sonic and Bayo top 5?

 

[Smog Frog]

sounds good to me

make that 4 queens though, counts as a queen doesnt she?

also / spot could be contested by

 

[Deathcarter]

If you're talking about his latest Twitter rant I think it's more a roundabout way of defending Sheik than it is an attack on Bayo.

Anyway, what's everyone's opinion of a 3 queens, Sonic and Bayo top 5?

Replace Sonic with Meta Knight and Top 5 is pretty much set.

 

[bc1910]

sounds good to me

make that 4 queens though, counts as a queen doesnt she?

also / spot could be contested by

Bayo's more than a queen. She's a witch. You don't **** with a witch.

OT: I still feel the sheer stupidity of Sonic makes him better than MK who, while still being stupid, competes with ZSS for his niche. I don't see his neutral game progressing much, either.

 

[Wintermelon43]

I'd put Diddy in top 5 with the four queens. He has great results, a great projectile, great neutral, one of the best matchups aganist Sheik and an advantage aganist ZSS, great aierals, specials, tilts, and smashes, good KO Power, and generally good matchup spread. I don't understand why most people don't think he's top five.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Top ten here we go. Not in order.



These are the most consistent and most nonsense characters in the meta.

honorable mention to

Why no pika? Cuz without ESAM there isnt even an argument for top ten. however he is pretty dang silly overall. Honorable mention to too. some very hard matches vs higher tiers has him just outside top ten imo.

also i ****ing hate mario and think he is unworthy but his results are there.

 

[RedBeefBaron]

I certainly wouldn't rule out Bayonetta being top 5 or top 10 but it's been like a week guys.

 

[kaz99]

What about Fox? He has excellent frame data, speed, and kill power. Plus he has plenty of good players using him in tournament

 

[Wintermelon43]

My top ten (Excluding Bayonetta since I'm not fully sure):



Diddy Kong is explained two posts above

Fox is in 8th because of his good speed, good KO power, good smashes, good up tilt and down tilt, good jab, good dash attack, good aierals, good combos, good reflector, good damage-racking, great frame data, and good results.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Top ten here we go. Not in order.



These are the most consistent and most nonsense characters in the meta.

honorable mention to

Why no pika? Cuz without ESAM there isnt even an argument for top ten. however he is pretty dang silly overall. Honorable mention to too. some very hard matches vs higher tiers has him just outside top ten imo.

also i ****ing hate mario and think he is unworthy but his results are there.

No HM to Fox?
Those 13 characters are the most significant Tournament Threats.

 

[Das Koopa]

I'm watching KTAR. As a brief aside, I play Lucas a bit and might decide to sink my time into him. Would anybody familiar with the matchup say that Lucas/Meta Knight is a 50:50 matchup? Based on watching the VOD, it seems like both characters have trouble getting their strings on one another, turning it into a bit of a slugfest.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I love me some McCloud but doesnt he lose to like....every top tier?

 

[C0rvus]

And Luigi lmao

 

[Kofu]

Fox is an annoying piece of crap but he's good.

Does he lose to anyone lower than him on the tier list aside from Luigi?

 

[wedl!!]

Yoshi? I've always heard that matchup is pretty annoying for Fox, although I can't really tell you why that is.

 

[kaz99]

He loses to a good amount of characters but only slightly. Larry said the only match-up for Fox worse than 45:55 is Sheik, but that's just his opinion

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Fox is better than Mario and definitely top 10.

He loses to Rosalina and Sheik, slightly to Luigi and most Fox players agree that he loses to Ryu [though Larry has beaten Trela recently]. He beats Pikachu, is even with Sonic and has favorable results against Diddy Kong. His matchups vs ZSS and MK are seen as even though few results exist to back it up.

 

[rm88]

Like many other people, I'm definitely being overly dramatic in believing Bayo will be a very, very dominant character, right? It's just super early to tell, I guess. I'm honestly a bit worried that a character can climb to top 5 so quickly.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Fox is better than Mario and definitely top 10.

He loses to Rosalina and Sheik, slightly to Luigi and most Fox players agree that he loses to Ryu [though Larry has beaten Trela recently]. He beats Pikachu, is even with Sonic and has favorable results against Diddy Kong. His matchups vs ZSS and MK are seen as even though few results exist to back it up.

Why is fox better than mario?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Like many other people, I'm definitely being overly dramatic in believing Bayo will be a very, very dominant character, right? It's just super early to tell, I guess. I'm honestly a bit worried that a character can climb to top 5 so quickly.

Pretty sure people will eventually figure her out and she'll drop quite a bit.
Still Top Tier, but not as dominant or broken as people want to believe she is.