Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[KuroganeHammer]

The character (Bayonetta) is literally busted and will kill the game if she isn't removed. She's without a doubt better than Sheik.

Casually quoting this here, let it be known that this 3 week old character is competing with Sheik, a character who's been out for way over a year.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The rise of Bayo and Emo Cloud and their repeated teabagging of the higher tiers may spur more experimentation with the lower tiers to see if something clicks. Might not be the worst thing in the world, honestly.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Oh, rip my post lost in the sea that is the last page.

#bandlc

 

[Shaya]

Yeah, probably, second to grab of course =p

You couldn't be any more correct haha

M2K lost though, but I feel like he's still organically playing him as a fair character rather than controlling space until limit becomes relevant. Obviously Nairo's ability to punish is superb though. Great set~

If only M2K had another top level player to practice with frequently again with his Cloud, he needs to find his patience again.

As it's going to be Tweek vs Nairo now, I think we may really see the difference in mindset that counts.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Casually quoting this here, let it be known that this 3 week old character is competing with Sheik, a character who's been out for way over a year.

Devil's advocate but that's exactly what Cloud did too.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Devil's advocate but that's exactly what Cloud did too.

yeah well cloud is also broken as **** so

 

[Nidtendofreak]

We'll see.

I think he's well past the new character hype stage, especially after he beat MVD.

He had this kind of phase with Roy that lasted a while.

And has been pointed out, twitter suggests he's not dropping Ike. Corrin might become the Sheik/Diddy option or something like that. Which is fine, why fight through a 35-65 against Sheik when you can switch to a 40-60 you're comfortable with?

Really he tends to use pretty much every FE character + Palutena to some degree. Maybe Cloud as well.

Speaking of Cloud, Cloud people: tell me why Limit Break Side B > Down B. I would think Down B would work better in a number of situations?

 

[TTTTTsd]

He had this kind of phase with Roy that lasted a while.

And has been pointed out, twitter suggests he's not dropping Ike. Corrin might become the Sheik/Diddy option or something like that. Which is fine, why fight through a 35-65 against Sheik when you can switch to a 40-60 you're comfortable with?

Really he tends to use pretty much every FE character + Palutena to some degree. Maybe Cloud as well.

Speaking of Cloud, Cloud people: tell me why Limit Break Side B > Down B. I would think Down B would work better in a number of situations?

Limit Side-B is faster, has reliable conversions into it from Nair, has startup invul, and is...well, faster.

Finishing Touch is kind of a joke outside of the one or two confirms into it, it starts up really really slow vs. Limit Side-B. Another reason is that Limit side-B also does more than 1% and additionally is active for much longer.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Speaking of Cloud, Cloud people: tell me why Limit Break Side B > Down B. I would think Down B would work better in a number of situations?

Limit break side b is faster and still kills at 70% anyway

 

[L9999]

bayonetta and cloud could take zss/rosa spot in not much time
and sheik's

Cloud and Bayonetta were a mistake.

 

[Shaya]

He had this kind of phase with Roy that lasted a while.

And has been pointed out, twitter suggests he's not dropping Ike. Corrin might become the Sheik/Diddy option or something like that. Which is fine, why fight through a 35-65 against Sheik when you can switch to a 40-60 you're comfortable with?

Really he tends to use pretty much every FE character + Palutena to some degree. Maybe Cloud as well.

Speaking of Cloud, Cloud people: tell me why Limit Break Side B > Down B. I would think Down B would work better in a number of situations?

On top of what was just said, you can be punished for messing up finishing touch.
And Limit Side-B will beat air dodges and attacks.
So ZERO options for the opponent vs many options against finishing touch (the most obvious one being likely not being in hit stun long enough to have it combo).

Cloud and Bayonetta were a mistake.

I think I blame this thread universe for saying ZSS and Sheik are the worst things to ever happen and are going to kill the game guaranteed within the next 2 weeks.
About 8 months ago.
Daily.
Until now
~

LET'S AVOID JUST SAYING QQ ONLY LINES THOUGH
or something~_~

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ryu's gotten worse with time so maybe Bayo and Cloud will too? It's a damn thing to cross your fingers on but we'll see how things play out at EVO. Like I said, might be time to see what people in the lower tiers might be able to do.

 

[NairWizard]

I find it hilarious that after nerfing prepatch Diddy, Luigi, and Sonic across numerous balance patches, they come up with Cloud, who is similar in terms of reward and how easy it is to get that reward.

It's almost like going back in time.

Almost.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

don't know if there's ever been a more overpowered move in any smash game tbqh. Tornado decides games, as does Shine... but neither purely win in every situation like this thing does.

cloud's whole limit system doesn't even compare to 's shuttle loop.

 

[Das Koopa]

Casually quoting this here, let it be known that this 3 week old character is competing with Sheik, a character who's been out for way over a year.

bayo's competing with a sheik that has no Bayo experience (K9) and otherwise got a 9th place finish with another top 8 through losers side

she's certainly a great character but I'm gonna say you overhyped her just a weeee bit in your post

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Ryu's gotten worse with time

this is a blatant lie, the only way he's gotten worse is by the addition of OTHER ******** DLC characters

 

[BunbUn129]

Pikachu does have uthrow to thunder as a true combo in conjunction with RAR, though. Also, I've seen esam successfully gimp sheik and zss before. Nevermind the countless stage spikes he's gotten vs characters with worse recoveries like rosa, mario, and m2k's cloud.

I didn't say it was impossible. It's unreliable. Onstage KO's are way more prevalent. And gimping Cloud is not a very big achievement. And one inconsistent KO setup is not enough to justify #5 when so many others can KO better.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

bayo's competing with a sheik that has no Bayo experience (K9) and otherwise got a 9th place finish with another top 8 through losers side

she's certainly a great character but I'm gonna say you overhyped her just a weeee bit in your post

I didn't mean K9's Sheik, I mean she's placing top 5 in a HUGELY stacked tournament lol

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think I blame this thread for saying ZSS and Sheik are the worst things to ever happen in the world and are going to kill the game guaranteed within the next 2 weeks.
About 8 months ago.
Daily.
Until now

But now the cycle repeats for the DLC chars!

Very interdasting.

 

[FallofBrawl]

I thought this was a competitive impressions thread, not a whine endlessly thread.

On topic: How does Megaman do vs the DLC characters? II feel he has advantageous or even MUs with most of them.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

But now the cycle repeats for the DLC chars!

Very interdasting.

It's going to get far worse after EVO 2016.

EDIT: finally a lord now yayyyy. I feel more experienced already .

 

[Fatmanonice]

this is a blatant lie, the only way he's gotten worse is by the addition of OTHER ******** DLC characters

Except it's not because Ryu's results have been about as lukewarm as of late as Pikachu's. Not as giant of a fall from grace as Luigi but still noticeable when people largely disagree with his current placing on the tier list.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I thought this was a competitive impressions thread, not a whine endlessly thread.

My competitive impression is that Bayonetta is the best character in the game, sorry if that comes off as whiny.

Except it's not because Ryu's results have been about as lukewarm as of late as Pikachu's. Not as giant of a fall from grace as Luigi but still noticeable when people largely disagree with his current placing on the tier list.

why do you insist on lying

 

[Greward]

I thought this was a competitive impressions thread, not a whine endlessly thread.

On topic: How does Megaman do vs the DLC characters? II feel he has advantageous or even MUs with most of them.

horrible

even corrin is very bad for megaman

 

[Appledees]

Cloud vs Megaman isn't fun at all

Its really hard to do much of your zoning/midrange game when you have some anime blond swinging his big anime sword at you and gets away with it 75% of the time

I almost lost round 2 at my local to a cloud after I beat his not so good Mario which I thought was much worse.
Now I rather fight Mario than Cloud. Cloud honestly ****s on 90% of the mid/lower tiers due to his bonkers set of moves.

 

[Charoite]

And if bayo is a top tier better than sheik, what is the problem in that?? why is outrageous , but sheik not?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

And if bayo is a top tier better than sheik, what is the problem in that?? why is outrageous , but sheik not?

because when you make a mistake against sheik at 40%, you don't die for it.

 

[Smog Frog]

he does have a point. is a very tame top tier for smash standards. is actually that much better than , if better at all?

 

[C0rvus]

She's not better than Sheik, so kind of a moot point, but I personally would be kinda salty if a DLC character was the best in the game. The pay to win vibes would never stop, and I would constantly be reminded of Kokonoe when she was new. Yuck.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

And if bayo is a top tier better than sheik, what is the problem in that?? why is outrageous , but sheik not?

She's weeks old compared to extremely developed sheik, that's the problem that people have Right now. "If she's the best and only 3 weeks old, imagine her optimized! *female scream of terror*"

But she ain't the best, so there's nothing to worry about.

 

[momochuu]

bayo's competing with a sheik that has no Bayo experience (K9) and otherwise got a 9th place finish with another top 8 through losers side

she's certainly a great character but I'm gonna say you overhyped her just a weeee bit in your post

the johns are real

it's ****ing sheik for one. when did we start making excuses for good characters losing to other good characters? also almost everyone has bayo exp for now, even if it's just a little. she's everywhere.

 

[Das Koopa]

Dabuz's patience outdid 9B. 9B out at 5th.

 

[Mario766]

Are people really johning for a Sheik player.

Next I'm gonna hear Melee players johning for a Fox.

 

[Ffamran]

Speaking of Cloud, Cloud people: tell me why Limit Break Side B > Down B. I would think Down B would work better in a number of situations?

Finishing Touch is more of a style and gamble move. Design-wise, it's less of FFVII's Finishing Touch and more of the Death ability. FFVII's Finishing Touch Instant Death effect guarantees you're dead unless you're immune to it while the Death ability has a low success rate, but if it works and you're not immune to it, you're dead. They'd have to go with the Death ability and not be completely true to FFVII's Finishing Touch since it would be really stupid if Cloud could kill with one move at 0% regardless of DI or anything. Also, it has to have low active frames and not actually be a tornado of active frames like Mega Man's Uair. It's still a tornado, but a gentle, I touch you only once tornado.

If anything, Smash 4's Finishing Touch has more in line with Captain Falcon's Falcon Punch and Knee, Ganondorf's Warlock Punch and aerial Flame Choke and Wizard's Foot, Jigglypuff's Rest, Little Mac's KO Punch, and pretty much everyone's Dair spikes. High risk, but very high reward and stylish moves. Limit Cross Slash is more like a Brawl Fox Up Smash or Ryu Shoryuken; low risk, fast, average to high active frames, and powerful.

I wonder if Cloud would prefer his Dissidia Finishing Touch... It'd basically be a vertical Limit Cross Slash if tuned right.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

the johns are real

it's ****ing sheik for one. when did we start making excuses for good characters losing to other good characters? also almost everyone has bayo exp for now, even if it's just a little. she's everywhere.

She's also 3 weeks old lol. Nobody really knows the MU.

 

[Das Koopa]

the johns are real

it's ****ing sheik for one. when did we start making excuses for good characters losing to other good characters? also almost everyone has bayo exp for now, even if it's just a little. she's everywhere.

AFAIK SoCal doesn't have any noteworthy Bayos. It's not johning: Matchup inexperience can tank you. It's kind of ridiculous to be this hostile over it lol.

On a different note: Dabuz seemed to handle the Rosa/Bayo matchup well. It was 3-2, but Dabuz was at his worst in the set when he got impatient. Also, it's a slog to watch. Bleh.

 

[PK Gaming]

Casually quoting this here, let it be known that this 3 week old character is competing with Sheik, a character who's been out for way over a year.

It's really hard to take your position seriously when you continually throw out these crude assertions. Your competitive impression of Bayonetta is that she's "broken", but instead of substantiating that point with rational, cogent points, you instead shift everyone's attention to extreme hypotheticals (this character is doing well week 3, that's surely the sign of a broken character!!) and throw in these reductive one-liners for good measure. Your "arguments" are essentially tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture and bias.

In other words, you're butthurt over the character and it shows.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I thought this was a competitive impressions thread, not a whine endlessly thread.

On topic: How does Megaman do vs the DLC characters? II feel he has advantageous or even MUs with most of them.

In my experience with Megaman vs Cloud and Bayo:

-Very similar to the Bayo vs Villager match up. Hit and run tactics work best and Megaman's plethora of projectiles help keep Witch Time at bay. Leaf shield is good at the ledge and his other projectiles are good at applying pressure there. Megaman's yaoi hands help shield grab dash attack, jab, and afterburner kick with relative ease. Thanks to Bayo's weight, attacks like bair and uair can sneak in kills at fairly low percents. I imagine that glide tossing would be very useful in this match ups because utilt and dsmash can probably kill Bayo at 80% with rage. Nair and lemons are good for interrupting things. All in all, certainly not a hopeless matchup on paper, might even be even, but I have yet to see this match up at higher levels.

- In my experience, it all boils to who can be more annoying to the other. Leaf shield is surprisingly good at interrupting him and can even knock him out of limit if you bump into him right when he activates an attack. Like Bayo, yaoi hands come into play and help him shield grab nair, dtilt, jab, and even ftilt at point blank. Like Mario and Captain Falcon, leaf shield puts on a lot of pressure on the edge and an impatient Cloud on the ledge will find themselves ball tapped into the abyss without limit. Like against a lot of characters, actually getting the kill in is kind of an issue and Cloud definitely benefits more if the match drags on too long. Probably 40-60 at worst.

 

[ARISTOS]

Reposting for posterity sake, just change about as dumb to much dumber lol what was Sakurai thinking

Controversial opinion time.

IMO, as a whole is about as dumb than pre-patch , maybe even moreso, because pre-patch Luigi was never actually *that* good.

Everything a swordsman could ever need, on top of incredibly generous auto-cancels, which leads to being incredibly easy to play.

Nair and Dair combined protect him from almost all aerial challenges against most characters apart from a select few.

Limit is free as ****, no reason you shouldn't be getting this at least three times a game.

Recovery is mediocre but unless you get sent at an unfortunate angle you can often just double jump back to the stage/air dodge right into Up-B, which removes most of the risk.

Love and respect to all the Cloud mains in this thread, you all are hard workers and are innovating for an entirely new character. I don't mean to demean your effort. I think this character is legit bonkers.

 

[momochuu]

can I also point out, that people are making excuses for sheik players losing to bayonetta, but still won't even admit that bayonetta is top 5 at worst. corrin just came out and you don't see corrins bopping sheik players. same as ryu when he first came out. you didn't see ryu players taking out top level sheiks in the first month of him being out.