Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[juddy96]

Losers

ESAM 2-0 C3PO
MVD 2-1 John Numbers

 

[Flux0r]

Nice to see Tweek getting some actual results with a rewarding character. Hope he never looks back at Bowser Jr.

 

[Peppermint1201]

The interesting thing about ESAM's 2-0 over C3PO is that when he tweeted his victory, he attached an image of the match-end stats. According to them, he only dealt 45% in game 3, meaning he gimped C3PO pretty hard.

https://twitter.com/PG_ESAM/status/706629441477283840

 

[momochuu]

My god, that is the most ridiculous losers bracket ever.

 

[PK Gaming]

ahahaha

That was absolutely disgusting

 

[Mr. Johan]

#IHopeSakuraisWatching

 

[Das Koopa]

Tweek is the first Cloud to make top 8 at a Supermajor

Good on him

 

[juddy96]

Losers

Ryo ?? 2-1 Ling Ling

LL is pretty damn good. He has solid results in New England and has a case for top 5 Peach.

 

[MachoCheeze]

#IHopeSakuraisWatching

Patches are done friend.

 

[juddy96]

I could see Mr.E pulling off a victory on Salem's Bayonetta.
Salem could be on tilt, which is a shame, but I do think the match up between the two is more than doable.

Not to be on this occasion. Salem wins 2-0

 

[Das Koopa]

I can't tell if Nairo has gotten worse or if everybody else has just closed the gap. It's pretty clear that K9 would've taken the set if he didn't SD in Game 5.

 

[hypersonicJD]

My god... K9 was doing an amazing performance... Those SD were heart breaking. But even then he was giving Nairo a really good fight.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I can't tell if Nairo has gotten worse or if everybody else has just closed the gap. It's pretty clear that K9 would've taken the set if he didn't SD in Game 5.

During the entire set K9 SD'ed 2 times :[

 

[Smog Frog]

blue lost 2-0 to ranai .

why did i hope for anything else to happen?

 

[Peppermint1201]

Ryo, using Corrin, has defeated MVD
https://twitter.com/PG_MVD/status/706642502418309120


EDIT: Salem over Hyuga

https://twitter.com/CLASHTournament/status/706643049972146177

 

[juddy96]

Losers R2

Hyuga 2-0 Dark Wizzy
6WX 2-0 Venom
Ranai 2-0 Blue

Losers R3

Ryo 3-1 MVD

 

[thehard]

Cloud's fadeback nair is the most amazing roll punish

 

[juddy96]

Ally 3-2 6WX

BTW Ryo beat MVD with Corrin not Ike https://twitter.com/PG_MVD/status/706643579381358592

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Ryo used Corrin, apparently.

EDIT: 'd

 

[FullMoon]

ahahaha

That was absolutelydisgusting

Man Dabuz is crushing hard on Luma.

 

[Das Koopa]

Mew2King completely destroys 9B 3-0

Two clouds in Top 8. Interesting.

 

[Shaya]

Two clouds in Top 8. Interesting.

Interestingly nearly every tournament everywhere since 2016.

If it wasn't due to limit side-b, this character would not be winning / bringing things back as much as he has.
3-0 against 9B although just about everything came from SDs or limit side-b reversals/clear winning situations.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ranai has lost every set that he's played against top-level Clouds IIRC. Maybe it's time we start talking about that MU.

It's dumb. Combine the combo happiness of Mario with the kill power and range of Ike with the mobility and lack of aerial end lag of Sheik and you pretty much have Cloud. If it weren't for the possibility of early gimps, it'd probably be one of his worst match ups.

 

[NotLiquid]

At this point Ally might as well be considered 6WX's inner demon

 

[Kofu]

blue lost 2-0 to ranai .

why did i hope for anything else to happen?

Curious to know how well Blue did, since I'm fairly certain Villager beats Mewtwo despite Mewtwo mains insisting it's even. The skill gap is probably a big part too though.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Interestingly nearly every tournament everywhere since 2016.

If it wasn't due to limit side-b, this character would not be winning / bringing things back as much as he has.
3-0 against 9B although just about everything came from SDs or limit side-b reversals/clear winning situations.

It is hilariously accurate to FF7 where you get beat up a lot and then LIMIT BREAK OH GOD comeback/momentum.

Etc. etc.

Is anyone going to argue with the idea of Top 10 Cloud now? I've been believing it since Week 2 or 3.

 

[Das Koopa]

I'd agree Cloud is Top 10 atm but when a character can get gimped easy I'd always say "wait and see the long-term meta"

 

[Solfiner]

Glad to see that M2K finally found his character.

I actually slept pretty hard on Cloud because of his recovery, but multiple players have proven me wrong lately.

 

[juddy96]

ANTi 3-1 Ally
Ranai 3-1 ESAM

https://twitter.com/dcwastaken/status/706647813329952768

 

[NotLiquid]

Ranai eliminates ESAM 3-1
ANTi eliminates Ally 3-1

EDIT: 'd

 

[Shaya]

The only characters who can really pose a threat to his recovery due to the stupendous hitbox sizes are those with valid projectiles/super disjoints.
So his only real weakness is only applicable in probably at most, 10 match ups.

 

[Das Koopa]

The only characters who can really pose a threat to his recovery due to the stupendous hitbox sizes are those with valid projectiles/super disjoints.
So his only real weakness is only applicable in probably at most, 10 match ups.

That's a lot of matchups to exploit a weakness, to be honest

 

[TTTTTsd]

The only characters who can really pose a threat to his recovery due to the stupendous hitbox sizes are those with valid projectiles/super disjoints.
So his only real weakness is only applicable in probably at most, 10 match ups.

To specify, applicable in 10 matchups but in most of them not significant enough to make him lose outside of like, Sheik (who doesn't hold him down very severely IMO, far from gatekeeping his viability if the results don't speak this clearly).

Fun stuff. They can exploit it, sure, but they have to contend with his neutral and advantage states as well as Limit Break.

 

[Das Koopa]

K9 takes it 3-1 vs Ryo's Corrin.

 

[NairWizard]

Sonic is in a similar boat to Pikachu imo, though I wouldn't say he's quite that far down (maybe top 10 still, or top 15). He gets top 32 at nationals often enough, but do you see him get better than that? Very rarely. He's got at least three losing MUs in the top tier (Rosalina, Cloud, and ZSS, maybe Fox and Mario), and tons of even MUs. The problem is that all the patches nerfed his KO power, and now he's been reduced to the same "make a read to get a kill" situation that some other kill-confirm-less characters suffer in. He's got good runaway capabilities but how many characters in the cast are letting him get away with that now?

With Komo preferring to go Cloud in many matchups in which Sonic was relevant before, I don't have much hope for the character's future.

 

[HoSmash4]

I'd agree Cloud is Top 10 atm but when a character can get gimped easy I'd always say "wait and see the long-term meta"

Cloud is not ' easy' to gimp. You'd think ranai of all people would do it on tweek.

 

[Shaya]

That's a lot of matchups to exploit a weakness, to be honest

You need to honestly think a bit harder about what that implicates.
Doesn't even mean they get guaranteed gimps on him. Just means that he doesn't have a 95%+ chance of getting back against them.

 

[Das Koopa]

I feel like Pikachu's story is even more tragic than Sonic's

Sonic has a decently high top saturation. Pikachu mostly relies on ESAM and occasionally Nakat, and ESAM has gone from undisputed(?) 4th best worldwide to not even being a top 5 NA imo.

 

[PK Gaming]

So it looks like Ryo is leaning more into using Corrin, which is exciting.

I'm interested to see how far he takes the character.

 

[Das Koopa]

You need to honestly think a bit harder about what that implicates.
Doesn't even mean they get guaranteed gimps on him. Just means that he doesn't have a 95%+ chance of getting back against them.

I'm talking about a more developed meta. This is the first NA Major where Cloud has done really well, so unless we see Tweek/M2K take it pretty decisively, I'm skeptical of how well Cloud will do the more exposure he gets. It's typical for weaknesses to get exploited to maximum efficiency, hence why something that might be small (Cloud's semi-gimpability) might end up defining an inability to stay high in the meta long-term.

This is definitely more indicative of a higher tiered placement over, say, Ryu, who had little more than hype or theorycrafting backing him. I'm not disputing Cloud's high-tier/Top 10 status, but given how hype almost never adequately represents the end results, I'm iffy on saying things like "He's S-Tier"!