4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v2.0

Many fighting game communities will often make a tier list for their game, often as a reference for discussion of tournament viability. Smash is certainly no exception, with tier lists for all Smash games, and with Back Rooms often being the main body that organizes and crafts them with the help of correspondents and members.

The first Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U tier list was released in Spring 2016, for Patch 1.1.3. It's been nearly half a year, and the meta has seen shocking shifts in its rulesets, character viability and more thanks to 3 new patches and 2 new characters.

As a disclaimer, the 4BR acknowledges that tier lists aren't always accurate and are often controversial. However, we do want to study the game and give a take on the current meta, adding yet another important snapshot to the history of the game.

The community has been vigilant for this game since the very beginning, with 2016 being a fantastic year thus far for Smash. From competitors and dataminers to content creators and tournament organizers, it's been quite the ride. And with the future for Smash 4 getting bigger and brighter, it's only natural to say that the meta will constantly evolve as time goes on. With that out of the way, we'd like to introduce you to the second official tier list for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U.

Procedure

Starting in early June 2016 (after Smash 'N' Splash 2), we asked 4BR members to distribute all the characters in the game (with the exception of Mii Fighters due to a lack of consistency regarding their legality) across tiers; players could have as many tiers as they want, and even order characters within their tiers. Players had to assume that this was under Version 1.1.6 of the game and that customs were off. In addition, players were allowed to place Miis (either under their 1111 loadout, or an XXXX loadout) if they so desired for an addendum. At this time, the 4BR does not have an official stance or recommendation on ruleset matters, including Mii Fighters. As with the previous vote, we also reached out to correspondents from outside the 4BR to help with this project and added a handful of applicants to the 4BR to help partake in this project.

For example, here is my vote, which was ordered within tiers:

Spoiler: Example Vote

We decided to run voting until August 8th, the week of Super Smash Con, to allow for more thoughts about July's tournaments to run in, especially EVO 2016. Eventually, we ended up with a total of 56 votes, with 31 US voters and 25 international voters.

The following people submitted a vote:

Spoiler: List of Voters

@---
@-6WX-
@~Pink Fresh~
@AeroLink_the_SoulMaster
@Alphicans
@Ambrose
@Camalange
@Catana
@CHOMPY
@CYVE
@Dabuz
@earth_tyt
@EcneBanjo
@Espy Rose
@Fox Is Openly Deceptive
@FullMoon
@Ghostbone
@istudying
@JJROCKETS
@John12346
@kameme8808 (Kamemushi)
@KENisbg (KEN)
Gunla
@Luco
@M@v
@Marc
@Marcbri
@Meru.
@Mr E
@Mr-R
@Myran
@NickRiddle
@Player-1
@Pugwest
@qb9b (9B)
@Ray_Kalm
@Raziek
@Red Ryu
@Remzi
@RichBrown
@rintarosu10 (RIN)
@san.
@Slice~ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Seagull Joe
@Shaya
@SS_and_TH (Komorikiri)
@SSB_Ned (Ned)
@SShane (SS)
@Thinkaman
@Trela
@Tweek
@UltimateRazer (GrimTurtle)
@vyQ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Xiivi
@Zan-
@Zigsta

As with the previous tier list, we will not be publicly releasing individual votes; however, all voters are free to share their votes with the public.

Results

Thanks to @Locuan (vote formatting) and @Shaya (processing), we were able to generate the average placements and groupings (tiers) of the cast. Furthermore, we have included standard deviations for both of these results and the weighted group score, which considered characters per group and the placement differences between v2.0 and v1.0 (with Marth and Mewtwo having the biggest jumps, both in the positive direction).

Spoiler: Voting Data

Character | Ordered Average | Standard Deviation (Order) | Grouped Average | Standard Deviation (Group) | Weighted Group | Difference from v1.0
Diddy Kong | 1.32 | 1.501 | 9.88 | 0.391 | 9.95 | +8
Cloud | 2.18 | 2.18 | 9.84 | 0.418 | 9.91 | +10
Sheik | 2.66 | 2.734 | 9.65 | 0.7 | 9.82 | -2
Rosalina | 3.39 | 2.085 | 9.66 | 0.634 | 9.85 | -1
Mario | 4.88 | 2.443 | 9.33 | 0.786 | 9.62 | +3
Sonic | 5.39 | 2.756 | 9.29 | 0.733 | 9.61 | ±0
Fox | 5.88 | 2.376 | 9.15 | 0.776 | 9.56 | ±0
Zero Suit Samus | 7.09 | 2.182 | 8.83 | 0.782 | 9.28 | -6
Ryu | 8.41 | 4.165 | 8.68 | 0.874 | 9.14 | -5
Mewtwo | 8.46 | 3.07 | 8.72 | 0.73 | 9.21 | +27
Bayonetta | 8.93 | 3.914 | 8.74 | 0.885 | 9.14 | New
Pikachu | 13.88 | 3.274 | 7.67 | 0.9 | 8.26 | -7
Meta Knight | 14.54 | 5.931 | 7.62 | 1.092 | 8.17 | -4
Villager | 15.07 | 4.358 | 7.51 | 0.806 | 8.08 | -3
Mega Man | 15.93 | 5.837 | 7.4 | 0.937 | 7.95 | +13
Ness | 16.39 | 4.916 | 7.41 | 1.068 | 8 | -3
Toon Link | 16.64 | 3.739 | 7.23 | 0.836 | 7.82 | +5
Corrin | 17.85 | 6.337 | 7.15 | 1.107 | 7.66 | New
Marth | 19.36 | 6.852 | 7.01 | 1.063 | 7.47 | +23
Captain Falcon | 20.95 | 4.615 | 6.72 | 0.922 | 7.26 | -6
Greninja | 21.11 | 5.731 | 6.8 | 1.052 | 7.32 | +4
Lucario | 21.52 | 5.405 | 6.63 | 0.968 | 7.14 | +1
Yoshi | 23.64 | 5.201 | 6.42 | 0.984 | 6.9 | -8
Pit | 23.73 | 6.264 | 6.39 | 1.115 | 6.83 | -6
Donkey Kong | 24.41 | 4.854 | 6.27 | 0.98 | 6.68 | +2
Peach | 24.52 | 5.898 | 6.2 | 1.079 | 6.64 | -7
Dark Pit | 24.89 | 5.888 | 6.27 | 1.044 | 6.68 | -10
R.O.B. | 25.64 | 5.393 | 6.08 | 1.17 | 6.51 | -8
Luigi | 27.34 | 6.583 | 5.95 | 1.126 | 6.26 | -13
Olimar | 30.93 | 7.914 | 5.62 | 1.338 | 5.94 | -6
Robin | 30.98 | 6.396 | 5.42 | 0.931 | 5.61 | ±0
Bowser | 31.55 | 5.812 | 5.23 | 1.018 | 5.4 | -2
Lucas | 32.18 | 7.071 | 5.17 | 1.149 | 5.34 | +3
Wario | 32.61 | 4.471 | 5.26 | 0.943 | 5.43 | -13
Ike | 32.68 | 5.711 | 5.06 | 1.03 | 5.08 | -7
Lucina | 34.52 | 7.746 | 4.95 | 1.178 | 5.08 | +13
Mr. Game & Watch | 37.8 | 6.637 | 4.38 | 1.337 | 4.33 | +1
Pac-Man | 38.73 | 6.016 | 4.34 | 1.097 | 4.18 | -6
Little Mac | 38.8 | 6.891 | 4.21 | 1.149 | 4.01 | +7
Palutena | 38.91 | 5.881 | 4.11 | 1.156 | 3.94 | +12
Kirby | 39.27 | 6.413 | 4.23 | 1.166 | 4.06 | -5
Duck Hunt | 40 | 7.697 | 4.21 | 1.303 | 4.05 | +3
Link | 40.64 | 8.186 | 4.09 | 1.338 | 3.94 | +1
Shulk | 41.77 | 6.753 | 3.86 | 1.267 | 3.6 | -2
Samus | 42.66 | 6.459 | 3.71 | 1.186 | 3.49 | +8
Bowser Jr. | 43.18 | 5.907 | 3.61 | 1.138 | 3.33 | -10
Wii Fit Trainer | 43.18 | 5.465 | 3.65 | 1.043 | 3.35 | -5
Dr. Mario | 45.16 | 4.554 | 3.47 | 1.051 | 3.11 | -1
Falco | 45.75 | 4.141 | 3.25 | 1.036 | 2.86 | -9
Roy | 46.02 | 5.323 | 3.38 | 1.191 | 3.08 | -15
Charizard | 48.27 | 3.763 | 2.82 | 1.077 | 2.48 | ±0
King Dedede | 49.02 | 4.06 | 2.7 | 1.146 | 2.32 | -6
Mii Gunner | 51.26 | 6.322 | 2.28 | 1.124 | 1.7 | +2
Mii Brawler | 51.89 | 6.696 | 2.26 | 1.316 | 1.76 | -3
Zelda | 52.07 | 2.235 | 1.92 | 0.616 | 1.49 | +3
Ganondorf | 52.66 | 2.254 | 1.9 | 0.651 | 1.47 | ±0
Mii Swordfighter | 53.85 | 3.951 | 2.04 | 0.947 | 1.53 | -2
Jigglypuff | 53.98 | 1.433 | 1.72 | 0.604 | 1.35 | -1

A standard deviation of (close to) 0 means that voters generally placed the character close to the average (mean), while a higher standard deviation shows that the character had a diverse range of placements. As expected, the further down the tier list one goes from the top, the larger the deviations tends to be. While the top and bottom tiers have lower standard deviation results, the middle and lower tiers were highly opinionated.

For the first time, our procedure for the Tier List asked voters for two things concurrently - tiers or groups of characters (similar to Wii U v1.0) and the orders for characters within them (overall 1-58, similar to many other past BR lists). The resulting lists were not completely congruent, with several small position swaps (orders were still maintained in the release). However, this gave us the means to decide our tier separations, reflecting how closely our voters put characters together in contrast to the volatility of ordered placements.

The Top/High/Mid/Low/Bottom divides were decided by the group score's range (9.88 - 1.72) split equally into five. The tiers primarily express point gaps of 10-9, 9-8, etc., with two exceptions. We merged the bottom tiers (2.82 - 1.72; 1.10 range), and to coincide with the high tier's split (8.25 - 6.62), we bumped up Captain Falcon, Greninja & Lucario, creating two tiers.

As such, we would like to present you with the...

Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v2.0 (Wii U Version 1.1.6)

--------------------TOP--------------------
S:
A:
-------------------HIGH--------------------
B:
C:
--------------------MID---------------------
D:
E:
--------------------LOW-------------------
F:
G:
------------------BOTTOM----------------
H:

Text Version

--------------------TOP--------------------
S: Diddy Kong, Cloud, Sheik, Rosalina, Mario, Sonic, Fox
A: Zero Suit Samus, Ryu, Mewtwo, Bayonetta
-------------------HIGH--------------------
B: Pikachu, Meta Knight, Villager, Mega Man, Ness
C: Toon Link, Corrin, Marth, Captain Falcon, Greninja, Lucario
--------------------MID---------------------
D: Yoshi, Pit, Donkey Kong, Peach, Dark Pit, R.O.B., Luigi
E: Olimar, Robin, Bowser, Lucas, Wario, Ike, Lucina
--------------------LOW-------------------
F: Mr. Game & Watch, Pac-Man, Little Mac, Palutena, Kirby, Duck Hunt, Link
G: Shulk, Samus, Wii Fit Trainer, Bowser Jr., Dr. Mario, Falco, Roy
------------------BOTTOM----------------
H: Charizard, King Dedede, Zelda, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff

Graphic Version

Smashboards Tier List Maker Version:

Addendum for Mii Fighters:

Of the votes we collected, 27 of them had Mii Fighters. While we were not able to accrue enough data for XXXX Miis, we did find results with 1111 Miis, which placed them into the bottom tier as follows:

H:

Conclusions

With the Summer of Smash coming to a close, there have been many unique advancements in the Smash 4 metagame that will be reflected within this tier list. Ever since the first tier list was released, Bayonetta took the world by storm; two of the top tiers in the last list received big changes, knocking them down a tad; everyone picked up Cloud; and Mega Man became a big threat. Other characters became relevant thanks to buffs, such as Marth and Mewtwo. Even though future patches are unlikely, it's safe to assume that the tier list will evolve quite fruitfully, as seen with previous Smash games.

What do you think of the tier list? Do you agree with the placements, or would you place certain characters differently? Let us know what your thoughts and questions are and we will try to address the most common ones in a followup article, which will include statements from various members of the 4BR.

Special thanks goes to Shaya and Locuan for their help with processing the votes and results; Camalange, Shaya, @Marc, Vayseth and Events2Compete (Joe Fattal) for assisting with the collection of outside votes; and shrooby for creating the tier list image. Lastly, I'd like to give a special thank you to all the voters for their time and input into crafting this tier list. I was proud to take the mantle for the second tier list and receive help from so many people.

 

This looks MUCH better than the first tier list; I can actually take this one seriusaly. However, there are still a few flaws. The biggest ones are:

• and are nowhere near where they are placed. Looking at the top tier on the list, Marth goes -2 aganist a ton of them, as well as Mega Man and Pac-Man. And I doubt Corrin does much better. They aren't anywhere near as good thertictially as people say they are either. Their strengths and matchup charts are worse than people say. I would put them in the mid-low section of D tier.

What? The only characters that Marth goes -2 against above him are Sheik, Sonic, and Diddy Kong.

 

I understand that sonic is used to beat #5 on the tier list sonic is now S tier list awesome i'm glad I play that Blue Hedgehog despite sonic doesn't need the buffs or nerfs sonic is fine without it

 

Diddy being #1 reminds me of pre-patched sm4sh.

 

if were just counting 1111, why not just put them in the official tier list anyway

 

Wii Fit And G&W Placings are EEWWW

 

Corrin an almost mid-tier character what is wrong with you people???

 

MARIO IS 5TH!!! Way to go major Mario mainers! This really made my day <3

And finally ahead of Sonic for the first time since the early Brawl days I think.

 

Tch Lucky.

 

Overall awesome tier list back room. I agree with almost every single position. I was looking forward to the opinion you guys had on the evolution of the meta game for a while now, and here we are. I look forward to showing my friends back at college and discussing character placements and such.

 

They did.

"Addendum for Mii Fighters:

Of the votes we collected, 27 of them had Mii Fighters. While we were not able to accrue enough data for XXXX Miis, we did find results with 1111 Miis, which placed them into the bottom tier as follows:

H: "

They didn't get enough information for custom Miis. Standard Miis are bottom tier, but custom Miis (different sizes and moves) could be higher. What I didn't like is that only 27 people remembered Mii fighters

 

1) Thanks for throwing this together, takes so much work between coordinating votes, getting data, and assembling it all into a final tier list. 2) How much longer will Top Players ignore Robin, Peach, and Olimar? If I were to guess: not much longer. 3) Zero and 4BR Tier Lists...? 1.1.7 confirmed

 

I love this tier list! It's not perfect, but it's better than what I've seen recently from unofficial sources.
Cloud and Ryu being that high, I disagree with however.

 

2) How much longer will Top Players ignore Robin, Peach, and Olimar? If I were to guess: not much longer. 3) Zero and 4BR Tier Lists...? 1.1.7 confirmed

Depends on if Nintendo is even still going with this Sm4sh or a fifth smash in the first place. Cloud is definitely high he's like a quicker, better version of Ike. As for Ryu, you should see the ridiculous plays the mains pull off then see if he doesn't deserve to be that high. Overall I really don't care just pissed they don't respect Corrin as much as I'd like aw well.

 

Zard is def low tier and not bottom but besides that nice list, the ordering in tiers is not the best but the ones that are in that designated tier are good.

 

... Zard what???
Oh whoops I realize you meant Charizard... stupid!! I'm also kinda shocked that Gren is that good, I almost want to go back to my boy (if he wasn't that hard to play him again).

 

Only real problems i find is Roy is a bit to low IMO and I really don't understand why Pit and Pittoo are two places apart.

Other then that it seems pretty solid overall

Edit: Okay, why the **** is Link below Game and Watch?

 

I really don't understand why Pit and Pittoo are two places apart.

What I don't get is how DP isn't better that Pit original. His attacks are much stronger than Pit's right?

 

It's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. This one feels more solid than the first, even if I have several gripes about it.

In the interest of not stirring things up too much, here's the less controversial changes I'd make:

: S -> A
: A -> B
: A -> C
: C -> D
: E -> D
: F -> E
: G -> F
: H -> G

I'd also do something about how many letters the last two lists have used. Doesn't it seem a little ridiculous to have so many when the tiers in Smash 4 are closer than in Melee or Brawl? Wouldn't it make more sense to use pluses and minuses, and have the lowest tier be no worse than D or D- since Smash 4 has no true trash tier?

And why is Dark Pit so far below regular Pit?


...Oh well. At least Robin hasn't lost any ground. I thought he'd fall 6 or 7 spots for no real reason because there's still the prevailing thought that he's "too slow to be viable". Convincing people that Robin has an argument for Top 25, now, that'll be hard to do with so many assumptions set in stone...

 

What I don't get is how DP isn't better that Pit original. His attacks are much stronger than Pit's right?

What.. No.

The only moves that are stronger then Pit's are his Arrows (by the smallest amount) and His side B (which actually affects a lot of MU)

Other then that, the only other difference is D.Pit's Ftilt is weaker then Pit's

 

: G -> F

I kinda have to agree on this one Shulk's versatility doesn't make him a "You're screwed" pick and Roy's godlike strength can help him hold his own. Samus??? I don't wanna know.

 

Lol those Roy and Link placements.

 

I did not expect Smash fans to be that Salty about Link and Roy. Link especially.

 

oh look, another tiers list... good, now I know what popular fighters 4G amateurs will flock towards next time I feel like messing around there.

I still fail to understand the big deal about it on some of these posts... all it really should tell is what characters have the best results when played to the best they are at the time.

I'll just listen to the advice in this video and push my characters of preference as far as I can...

 

I don't get it

 

falco is so low :O. other than that everything looks great, still feel like peach is underrated tho

i totally agree with you pikachu is underrated

 

Yeaaaah! Samus isn't in the bottom anymore. :D
Yeah, that's the only thing I care about.

yeah i agree with you i main Samus and she has so much potential

 

So Link has the highest solo standard deviation at 8+. Im guessing there was a lot of controversy on if he should be higher or lower. Judging from his placement now, I'm guessing some people were arguing for bottom of the mid tier. Interesting.

I can't make the call personally for if he is or not, but I hear he has a fantastic rep by the name of T (who is apparently really hard to find videos of, rumor has it), but that's all I know.

And i do agree with Kurogamehammer on a side note, I think Zelda is worse than Jigglypuff or Ganondorf. To add on, Jiggs and Ganondorf always have that 'fear factor'about them to punish mistakes at sub 50. Zelda has...teleport I guess. And at least G dorf and Jiggs can edgeguard very well.

 

It's ridiculous that Cloud is above Rosalina when she has so many better results than him. They should be swapped in my opinion. I also can't believe Charizard is so freaking low... He's seriously not that bad.

And here we are, fellow Mewtwo mains... FINALLY celebrating justice! I always said that Mewtwo was awesome and he'd end up in the high tier, and there he is! I'm so happy!

 

Troll?

Nope. I'm absolutely serious. This tier list is wrong. Just plain old wrong.

 

Nope. I'm absolutely serious. This tier list is wrong. Just plain old wrong.

I'll believe you when Ryu starts to get consistent results and Sheik and Diddy don't.

 

And here we are, fellow Mewtwo mains... FINALLY celebrating justice! I always said that Mewtwo was awesome and he'd end up in the high tier, and there he is! I'm so happy!

Yeah yeah celebrate about you're two bit party that Mewtwo is the new god of smash 4 whatever. I almost want to rant about the ridiculous boost mewtwo got and what not in fact if it wasn't for that insane patch 1.1.5 he wouldn't even be mentioned (I'm totally kidding by the way I really don't care). I might be the first to point this out but Damn ZSS is not doing so hot ouch.

 

Everybody sleeping on . As soon as the edge guard meta evolves she's going to sky rocket to mid tier.

Lol. Roy being slept on hard.

This isn't funny anymore.

 

As a player who mains Lucina, its time she got some respect and got into the mid tier. Sadly, she will have to live in Marth's shadow since people refuse to see her as anything but "Easy Mode Marth", but she is still a really decent character in her right.

Lots of people sleep on her, and they pay the price if they think she can't hold her own. She may not have Marth's tipper game, but she has tons of great tools to be successful.

Shame about Roy though. All that effort to make him a semi-clone, and he crashed and burned on the tier list.

 

Maybe I'm the first to post this, but I really don't see why Dedede should be below Charizard. If anything, they should be swapped.

 

So in v1.0 of the tier list, Sheik was the best and Zelda was the worst.

Now Sheik is third best, and Zelda third worst.

Coincidence? Nah.

 

What? The only characters that Marth goes -2 against above him are Sheik, Sonic, and Diddy Kong.

Ignore him. He just loves to insist that his theories are absolute fact and disregards results that conflict with his theories.

 

Holy crap this tier list sucks. Everybody from B tier and above needs to be shuffled, and a few need to be dropped.

Does Lucina really need to be 2 tiers lower than Marth? Sure, she can't kill at 40 with a charged fsmash near the ledge, but how often does Marth get that? I could almost see 1 tier of difference, but Lucina is really not that much worse than Marth, despite what most people think. Hell, back in the beginning of the game, she was better than Marth, but nobody would admit it because lol no tipper. For that matter, why is Marth that high?

Why is Luigi so low? Why is Ness so much higher than Lucas? I haven't played any threatening Nesses in ages, but Lucas's zair is almsot as hard to deal with than half of Ness's kit combined. How is Zard so low? He's really fast for his weight and power. D3's bad, but he's not that bad. MK isn't that good anymore. BJ is pretty underwhelming, but not that bad.

There are a lot more issues I take with this tier list, but these are the most major. Hell, the EventHubs tier list is better than this.

 

This isn't funny anymore.

I'm sorry, but you have made a huge error in choosing that image.

Spoiler: Best Image

Dude, do you even meme?

---

My thoughts on this, are aside from a couple of characters maybe swapping their positions around 1-2 spots, this is incredibly accurate, There aren't really any characters I feel should make huge rises like before.

Really pleased with how Marth has developed. It's well and truly one of the best rewards players who have stuck with him since release can get.

 

Interestingly enough this tier list is fairly accurate to my own tier list I made. The top 5 being in the exact same positions and the general list being in similar places.

Also I'm quite comfortable with the placement of Yoshi here. My only real complaint is WHY is there a gap between the Pits? They're literally the same character with the same neutral game, combos and general game plan reeeee stop!

 

Hm... My four characters in this tier list.

Lucina: #36
Corrin: #18
Ryu: #9
Link: #43

I'm not gonna bother complain about Lucina's spot. Yes, the ridiculous gap between her and Marth remains existent, and I don't agree with that. I'll just say that I'm happy she rose up 11 spots, even though I think she should be chilling with DK, Peach and the Pits. She's now mid tier, and that's much better than her bottom tier placement.

Corrin's high up too. I don't even think she's top 15 or 20 anymore. Maybe 25ish maybe? Should go down to D tier. Definitely not better than Marth.

Ryu's top ten as usual, though I don't feel he'll be keeping that spot for long. Probably drop down to top 15? I don't know since I'm still on my way to be an expert, but that's what I think, and I could be wrong.

Don't remember where Link was exactly in the first tier list but I can tell he's slowly making his way up. Was hoping he'd be higher, but knowing his competitive statistics, I'm not really surprised either.

Otherwise, this tier list seems pretty solid. Could take some improvements, but I'm not expecting it to be perfect either since it's really just the second. The Competitive Metagame of Smash 4 is growing, and here's that the tier list evolves alongside as well.