3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Phoenon]

It's worth noting Link/Toon Link Bomb Canceling got removed as well.

 

[Shaya]

Marth's down throw and forward throw are combo throws [now].
REJOICE.

Down Throw -> Up air comboing up until 80%.
CHUGGA CHUGGA.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Not a damn thing changed for DK as far as I can tell.

Awesome.

So he still has his awesomely broken Up B custom?

 

[Attila_]

Falco grounded laser speed is SIGNIFICANTLY increased. Like, almost twice as fast. Lag to put the gun away seems pretty similar though.

Falco fair has changed quite a lot; characters don't get sucked in anymore, and get hit further and higher than before. This makes it better for killing but worse for gimping. This is really obvious too.

I think dair has slightly less start up, but this change seems less clear.

 

[Shaya]

Fair losing the gimping sucks... guess it was kinda cheesy against a lot of characters.
yeah, single hits don't spike on it anymore.

Seems like multi hit moves that had spiking properties have been tuned out a lot?

Also not seeing laser being that much faster, but eh, probably could be 10 frames shorter, it was still horrendous.

Could see down air being a tad bit faster too.

 

[PokemonyeWest]

Welp, Kirby and Mario got buffs. I'm content.

 

[Tristan_win]

Marth's down throw and forward throw are combo throws [now].
REJOICE.

Down Throw -> Up air comboing up until 80%.
CHUGGA CHUGGA.

I know I said I wouldn't post anymore but holy cow that's a massive buff!

That deeply empowers Marth and now makes future patches very mind boggling as seemly anything is possible.... This could very easily help push him into high tier.

 

[Jabejazz]

Multi hit spiking properties have been universally removed it seems.

RIP TripleD UAir chaingrab

 

[PokemonyeWest]

Multi hit spiking properties have been universally removed it seems.

RIP TripleD UAir chaingrab

What do you mean. Does Kirby's dair no longer spike? That's a huge nerf if so damn

 

[Shaya]

I know I said I wouldn't post anymore but holy cow that's a massive buff!

That deeply empowers Marth and now makes future patches very mind boggling as seemly anything is possible.... This could very easily help push him into high tier.

I'm sure there's DI saving you a lot, but yeah, lag on the end of the throw and base knock back on the move seems to have been changed bit. Wish I frame tested how laggy throws were, haha.

Forward throw -> fair seems to combo up to 30-40% now too.

 

[DblCrest]

Are the the kirby buffs legit ?
Also Wario 's issues with escaping grabs got fixed. I can no longer get a free shuttle loop after releasing him with metaknight. He jumps further way now

 

[Meru.]

Peach

Removed stale negation/ instant turnip throw/ ledge turnip pull
Decreased Dair knockback slightly. Combos easier. (kind of sure of this one, but not guaranteed)
Decreased turnip pull recovery slightly (not sure about this one) EDIT: I think I'm wrong about this one. I would like someone to test it though but I think I'm just seeing things.

Other than that nothing seems changed. She's still ridiculous . Haven't tested customs yet. EDIT: Tested customs, no changes.

Zelda

Dins Fire's lag seems slightly decreased
Nayru's Love reflects for a longer time.
There's also something better about Nayru's Love attacks. Maybe less lag? Very unsure about this one.

Can't find anything else. Haven't tested customs yet.

 

[Jabejazz]

What do you mean. Does Kirby's dair no longer spike? That's a huge nerf if so damn

Multi hit moves had a property where they could spike when you cancelled them earlier.

As in you'd input a UAir, fast fall it so it doesn't complete, and it would spike your opponent.
Kirby's dair has a spiking property on its last hit I believe, so that shouldn't have been removed.

 

[Phoenon]

Marth's down throw and forward throw are combo throws [now].
REJOICE.

Down Throw -> Up air comboing up until 80%.
CHUGGA CHUGGA.

Also works with Lucina *obviously* as I've tested.

Down throw actually combo'd into Up air with Lucina against Marth until around 100%, though vectoring/DI might nullify that.

 

[Black Mantis]

Marth's down throw and forward throw are combo throws [now].
REJOICE.

Down Throw -> Up air comboing up until 80%.
CHUGGA CHUGGA.

Marth moving up

 

[Phan7om]

What do you mean. Does Kirby's dair no longer spike? That's a huge nerf if so damn

Idk im downloading now, but im pretty sure thats not what he meant. Multihits would spike no matter if they spiked in previous games before, Kirby's dair has always been a meteor so i doubt its any different.

 

[Shaya]

I didn't test with frame perfection, usually I can pull off an extra 10% or so on 'combos' if I do the 1/4 skipping.
Like Down Throw -> Turn Around Dash -> Up Smash is comboing as well, at 0% to some point. Doubt anyone's going to bother trying that in tournament though.

 

[Cherubas]

I don't have both versions so I can't do a detailed test, but simply based on comparing my current findings with Balloonicorn's Bowser Jr guide, that guide claims that Bowser Jr's Dthrow does 8% damage, but currently it does 7% damage.

Someone want to look into this further?

 

[Black Mantis]

Anything on Bowser.Jr or Captain Falcon?

 

[FimPhym]

It's not in the OP yet but the Dedede board has noted that down throw has a more vertical trajectory, and forward air has gone from 13% to 12%.

The down throw change is odd in that it is not obvious to me if its a buff or nerf. It takes away fair combos at certain percents, but opens up uair combos.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Might honestly be better for him since Uair kills better.

 

[DarkKyanite]

used both versions on falcon's dtilt, it now moves falcon forward by a little bit, means that crazy good move has even more range now

edit. its utilt not dtilt

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

It's worth noting Link/Toon Link Bomb Canceling got removed as well.

Came here to say this.

As for Ganondorf, he no longer has landing lag after a full hop Air Dodge. I believe that previously Ganondorf would have landing lag even if he air dodged from the peak of his double jump. A welcome change.

 

[Phoenon]

Link's Forward Smash now functions more like Toon Link's and he has a much easier time landing the second hit of it at higher percentages like 100%

 

[Jabejazz]

Might honestly be better for him since Uair kills better.

DThrow to Uair doesn't feel like it can be reliably done at kill %.
DThrow > Fair being hardly possible means we can no longer send the enemy off-stage reliably.

So far, it feels like most of the changes are minor (fair damage) to significant (UAir spiking) nerfs for TripleD.

I need to play around with gordos, and test if their KB resistance changed.

 

[Nobie]

I'm not sure if this is actually the case, but Mega Man's Up Smash and Up Tilt on the ground feel like their hitboxes have been increased. Did the Up tilt always have a weaker grounded hitbox from about one Mega Man away?

 

[preternaturalism]

i don't know if this has been mentioned already, but 'ness' no longer gets aerial dodge landing lag from doing a short hop > aerial dodge after the aerial dodge animation has already come to an end. so "dodge canceling" that no longer seems to be a necessity.

edit: i'm not sure if this is because the animation itself has been shortened, but i seem to able to do short hop > aerial dodge > u-tilt (and land the u-tilt). i can't recall if this was possible before, but if my memory serves me right, only n-airs would come out at that point in the past.

 

[Muster]

Shulk's fair and nair now do 7% as opposed to 6%. fair does 6% on monado speed while nair does 5%

 

[byebye]

Peach
Decreased Dair knockback slightly.

reading upto this point. yeah nerf this, nerf that.

Combos easier. (kind of sure of this one, but not guaranteed)

less knockback = buff!
always loved dair -> followup aerial.

 

[ZHMT]

No noticed changes so far with Jigglypuff (damage and knockback are the same), which is a good thing. Frame data is unconfirmed.

 

[DunnoBro]

Was it because people spammed Bowercides or is it because Koopa Klaw comes out faster than Flame Choke making it easy to spam? So, if people spammed Ganoncides, would a new patch just revert both to the originals of Bowser/Ganon killing themselves first?

I'm guessing it's because of the dash grab custom. It travels much further horizontally on the jump, you can bowsercide from the middle of FD and it's extremely easy to get the grab with all that extra range.

Add that to the fact it's a ridiculously good move on it's own which punishes the hell out of landings, can be used for recoveries, in general can just be thrown out haphazardly for easy grabs I think this was the reason.

I was actually training a custom bowser for this reason, it was absolutely bonkers.

 

[Kofu]

Just a quick note a friend of mine just found out on Bowserciding (not sure if it needs pointing out, but I haven't seen it pointed out yet); if the opponent is fast enough, they can actually still recover due to Bowser dying first. Test it in Training especially on opponents with high vertical recoveries like Dedede and Pit, they'll live. So those who are on the verge of being Bowsercided just need to spam jump and hope they time it right or something.

So Bowser dies before the opponent for real and cannot recover from Bowsercides regardless? That benefit has been given to the victim? Doesn't make sense from an animation standpoint but it's funny. Thanks, folks, for abusing Bowsercides to the point where it got nerfed. Even though it was nearly impossible to pull off against anyone with a brain anyway.

I'll do some testing on Game & Watch and Villager later. I doubt Game & Watch's DTilt has less active frames; it was already heavily nefred from Brawl and about half the animation doesn't even do anything.

 

[VivaReverie]

Megaman: Super reduced recovery on Leaf Shield.
Ganondorf: Sliightly reduced landing lag on nair.
Pac-Man: Fresh bair no longer sends the hydrant flying.
Falco: Blaster (On ground only) is slightly faster.
ZSS: Neutral B paralyzer has slightly more recovery frames.

Need confirmation, frame data, or other things that add credibility to the list.

Tah daaah, video proof

 

[Jabejazz]

Tah daaah, video proof

I'm fairly certain you couldn't send the hydrant flying with a fresh bair in 1.0.3.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Thank goodness for a Meta-knight buff, that's always good.

 

[VivaReverie]

I'm fairly certain you couldn't send the hydrant flying with a fresh bair in 1.0.3.

You could and I know you could, I did it all the time in For Glory mode.

 

[Jabejazz]

Guess it had something to do with the fresh bonus in vs. games. I know I couldn't pull it off in training.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Megaman's Up Air is definitely larger now.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Dragon Rush's damage has been nerfed from 15% when all hits connect to just 11% now.

Only difference I've noticed thus far for the Zard. He seems mostly unchanged.

 

[VivaReverie]

Guess it had something to do with the fresh bonus in vs. games. I know I couldn't pull it off in training.

That's exactly it, and why in my video I did it in Versus mode over Training mode.