3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Shaya]

Any noted Marth/Lucina changes?

gotta get rid of my conspiracy theories :<

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Before updating my brother's 3DS I went on to check on Meta Knight and compared him to how he was on my updated 3DS:

-Range and visual effects remain the same.
-N-Air has been buffed from 7% to 10% and now KOs ~45% earlier.
-Dimensional Cape sends the target in a more horizontal angle and now KOs ~15% earlier.
-Forward Throw has been changed, it now has two hitboxes that total 9% on all characters. It previously did 3% on some character and 9% on others, so it's more of a fix than anything else.
-Back Throw has received slightly increased knockback and KOs ~5% earlier.
-Back-Air's knockback has been increased a lot and now KOs a whopping ~30% earlier.
-Forward-Air can no longer spike.

All tests were performed on Pit at the spawning point of FD in Training Mode. These are definite changes, I did not write anything that I wasn't 100% sure on was changed. The buffs feel nice, but I don't feel like they're enough to boost him from lowish mid-tier obscurity, his range is still a huge problem. Despite that it's nice to see some acknowledgement of the problem, and the N-Air and B-Air buffs are still potential game changers.

I unfortunately don't have any reliable way to show these changes, but if anyone has a way of showing them I can guarantee you they're very clear.

 

[icraq]

Before updating my brother's 3DS I went on to check on Meta Knight and compared him to how he was on my updated 3DS:

-N-Air has been buffed from 7% to 10% and now KOs ~45% earlier.

holy crap he stole rosalina's nair's damage and knockback, give it back!

 

[Shaya]

NEUTRAL AIR ON MK BUFFED?

YESSSSSSSSSSS.

And it killing now potentially? That's going to change his capabilities drastically, he really needed this.

 

[Captain Norris]

any Falcon buffs/nerfs?

 

[Archimedes]

Is there any changes besides dthrow doing 2% less? I don't see any.

 

[glasses]

iono, I could be insane
also hard to get same scale pictures of older things, fudge (the pairs of vertical/horizontal lines are the same length)
Pretty sure it's just my imagination.

U-Air has more range now?!

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I compiled a list of changes to ZSS.

Stuff I am sure of:

- Side-b now connects properly (first hit always launches into second hit if you're close, though you still get some weird rogue hits on the outer part of the whip). Total animation time is reduced heavily, making it safer.
- Fsmash is now faster to recover and thus safer on block. By how much I'm not sure.
- Down throw launch angle changed slightly; the opponent is now launched less horizontally and at lower percents a little bit lower.
- Same change for down tilt; the opponent is now launched less horizontally and at lower percents a little bit lower.
- Close range down smash is better on block. By how much I'm not sure, though in testing it seems I can jab before the opponent can drop shield (like brawl).
- Paralyzer Shot's small shot range reduced, however you can now release the attack before it finishes charging.
- Air dodge lag increased to 22f from 15f

Less sure about:
- Fsmash's angle of KB seems different, more horizontal instead of a corner KO angle.
- Up b seems to connect better in the air. (now with more "probably for real this time™")
- Zair ledge tether range reduced

- ****ing bugged:
Up-b's KB doesn't seem to be staling at all.

Would like confirmation on these before adding to OP. Also would I be spoiled if I asked for you to compile them to one post? I'm doing this from my tablet, makes copy pasta hard :X

 

[MasterOfKnees]

any Falcon buffs/nerfs?

As far as I tested he's more or less unchanged. Only gave him a quick run-through though.

 

[icraq]

- Nair decreased knockback, killing Zelda at 170% from 140%.

I'd change that to - Nair reduced damage by 3% and decreased knockback, killing Zelda at 170% from 140%

 

[Pikabunz]

Knockback increase on thunder, skull bash, and parts of fsmash.

0% | Damage | 100% | 150% | 200%
Forward Smash (Mid) | 18% | 130 > 130 | 165 > 165 | 199 > 199
Forward Smash (Close) | 15% | 99 > 107 | 124 > 136 | 150 > 165
Forward Smash (Tip) | 12% | 110 > 112 | 143 > 145 | 175 > 178
Thunder | 15% | 108 > 113 | 133 > 139 | 157 > 165
Skull Bash (Full Charge) | 22% | 112 > 115 | 145 > 149 | 177 > 183

If anyone wants to do a knockback comparison on a character's move, all you need is 2 sd cards. One with patch 1.0.4 and the other with an older patch. All you have to do is set lvl 1 cpu Mario's damage to 150% (for more accurate data) and at the start of the match use the move you want to test on Mario once and quit the match. Look through stats in the results screen and find Max Launcher Speed and write that number down. Do this for every move you want to test. After you have all your data written down, turn off the game and insert the other sd card. Do the same tests on lvl 1 Mario and compare your results. This way is much more accurate than using kill percents for finding a moves new knockback.

 

[Captain Norris]

As far as I tested he's more or less unchanged. Only gave him a quick run-through though.

good. Better than nerfs

 

[VivaReverie]

Megaman: Super reduced recovery on Leaf Shield.
Ganondorf: Sliightly reduced landing lag on nair.
Pac-Man: Fresh bair no longer sends the hydrant flying.
Falco: Blaster (On ground only) is slightly faster.
ZSS: Neutral B paralyzer has slightly more recovery frames.
Ness: Dthrow reduced from 9% to 7%.


^This is all the stuff I found/confirmed on my own and isn't in OP (At time of posting). I don't have any sufficient evidence, I'll let other people try it all out for themselves to confirm themselves.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Megaman: Super reduced recovery on Leaf Shield.
Ganondorf: Sliightly reduced landing lag on nair.
Pac-Man: Fresh bair no longer sends the hydrant flying.
Falco: Blaster (On ground only) is slightly faster.
ZSS: Neutral B paralyzer has slightly more recovery frames.
Ness: Dthrow reduced from 9% to 7%.


^This is all the stuff I found/confirmed on my own and isn't in OP (At time of posting). I don't have any sufficient evidence, I'll let other people try it all out for themselves to confirm themselves.

Sexy, but I'd like confirmation and/or direct comparison to 1.0.3 and/or actual frame data before adding. Cept the downthrow.

 

[Captain Norris]

Megaman: Super reduced recovery on Leaf Shield.
Ganondorf: Sliightly reduced landing lag on nair.
Pac-Man: Fresh bair no longer sends the hydrant flying.
Falco: Blaster (On ground only) is slightly faster.
ZSS: Neutral B paralyzer has slightly more recovery frames.
Ness: Dthrow reduced from 9% to 7%.


^This is all the stuff I found/confirmed on my own and isn't in OP (At time of posting). I don't have any sufficient evidence, I'll let other people try it all out for themselves to confirm themselves.

that backair Pac Man Nerf is huge. That is terrible for the Pac Man players.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Any D3 news? Working atm or otherwise I'd be trying to figure **** out.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Is there any evidence that movement speed has been tampered with for some fighters? Some users are claiming that Rosalina is slower than she was before the patch update.

Based on what Aerodrome recorded before the patch, Rosalina is tied with Luigi with her walking speed, and her running speed is greater than that of Duck Hunt. Has this changed in any way?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Pac-Man: Fresh bair no longer sends the hydrant flying.

*Pac-Mains dying in the distance*

Why, why?! This was such a mean tech and so easy to do too.

Kirby's buffs though. Gonna miss that reliably quick N-Air but his kicking moves seem worth it, they really feel good to hit as and extend nicely.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Rosa stuff: (Tested mostly by me, write up courtesy of Xaltis)


Rosalina:

Nair damage got a slight nerf in percent it does.

Grab got a cooldown increase

Down Smash cooldown increase

Forward Smash Slight start up Increase? (We couldn't get a 100% for sure answer on this)

Nair knockback is decreased

Luma:

Gains 15 more HP (Edit: This is wrong)

Shoots a shorter distance with fully charge Luma shot. (Which is better)

Comes back faster when you call him back.

Luma shot got cooldown decrease.

Can still break grabs.

Doesn't do anything that the Wii U help tip says about him.

On stages with walls that go all the way down. (Yoshi's Island Brawl, and other Omegas) if Luma doesn't make it back to the stage with his 3 jumps, he will fall to his death, but on stages with these walls instead of dying, he glitches back to the middle of the stage.

Can you tell me how you obtained this data so I know if its accurate?

 

[TTTTTsd]

- Dair is better for combos, 5 hits, less damage, less landing lag, less KB overall means followups from Dair after D-Throw at fresh % are now possible!

That's all I can find with Doc so far.

 

[Captain Norris]

Well I gtg. If anyone finds anything with Falcon just quote me.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Kirby's dash may be faster. I cannot confirm this but my initial test had him ground movement feel jarring abnormal beware possibility of placebo affect.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Ike:
-SH Fair now autocancels. Startup is also much faster.
-Bair does 1% more damage, slight increase in knockback(?)
-Nair has reduced knockback allowing for more opportunities for followups.
-Dtilt trajectory is upwards now, less recovery, does 1% more damage.
-Ftilt recovers slightly faster.
-Dsmash trajectory is slightly more horizontal.
-Jab now works as intended, including comboing properly on Greninja. Does not combo properly on Yoshi still. :/

Need confirmation, frame data, or other things that add credibility to the list.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Kirby's dash may be faster. I cannot confirm this but my initial test had him ground movement feel jarring abnormal beware possibility of placebo affect.

Don't worry man. It won't just be you if that is the case.

I think Kirby's dash did get a slight boost...also, can you confirm buffs for Kirby's range and speed for some of his attacks? They gave him a clear overhaul with the hitboxes, from my experience.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

So... What you're telling me is that Greninja was Dante all along?!

NO, IT WAS ME DIO
Anything confirmed for Link?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Bowser's Fsmash use to do 34% fully charged, which was the highest in the game, now it does 32%. King Dedede and Ganon's fully charged Fsmash remain tied as the highest damaging at 33%.

 

[Metalex]

I don't like all this nerfing and removal of some of the more fun bugs... In earlier games some of them would be called advanced techniques but that will probably all be patched from now on.

Anyway, I have tested everything i can with Falcon and i have noticed no changes whatsoever (At first i thought Uair had recieved a slight KB buff, but that was just my imagination). Good for us Falcon mains!

 

[TTTTTsd]

I just tested Ike;s SH Fair. That **** autocancels. OH MY LAWD

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Got this from the Ganon boards:

"Ganon's fair has less ending lag. Jab seems slightly faster (not entirely sure). Ganon's downthrow has less ending lag, and can be comboed from more easily. Another confirmation; the lag on nair has been greatly reduced".


Wizkick seems to start up a tad bit faster and travels just a little more distance. Bair sweetspots more often.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Im late for work thanks to you people. If someone compiles a good list of data (and puts info about how it was obtained so it fits the criteria to add to the OP, including WHO the knockback is tested on) then tags me, it will be added to the OP much faster than other stuff which will have to wait until later tonight probably.

 

[Puppyfaic]

Peach no longer has instant turnips or air dodge cancels. RIP.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Monado speeds damage modifier is no longer .72. Its .8 or hovering around .8
It's mathematically impossible to be .72 anymore and some quick calculations were done in shulks thread.

Tl:Dr Monado speeds damage debuff decreased.

Given base damage on several moves if not all but back slash and counter from what is currently absorbed + speed having less of a debuff. Shulk gets quite the reward from his rush down now if successful. 10.x % damage on ftilt in speed now and ftilt was 12% in 1.03. Basically Vanilla in 1.03 is only 20% stronger then Speed *now* factoring both buffs.
Excuse me Marth I'm busy being the fastest swordsman.

 

[Azule07]

Little Mac's KO Punch got buffed! :D

I have both versions 1.03 amd 1.04 and am able to test out everything, but thankfully I already made a list of
KO Percentages from the KO Punch during 1.03

I've only tested three characters thus far. The lightest, an average, and a heavy. This is also in training mode as I don't have a second 3DS with 1.04 so this is without freshness or rage, meaning the percentages will be even lower in normal play.

Jigglypuff's minimum KO percentage with max vectoring is now 13% down from 19%.
Ness's minimum KO percentage with max vectoring is now 22% down from 29%.
Dedede's minimum KO percentage with max vectoring is now 34% down from 42%

Happy Patching Day everyone!

Any confirmation on this? I hated that KO punch before it was buffed. A skilled player can almost always land that.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

zelda utilt does 1% more damage

LUMAS RECALL SPEED HAS BEEN INCREASED DRAMATICALLY WHEN SEPERATED FROM ROSALINA

jab does ~2% more damage
usmash does ~1% more
dsmash does ~1% more
dtilt does about 1% more
ftilt does about 1% more
fsmash does about 1% more
uair does like 2 to 3% more

actually i might as well list the ones that just do more:

1%
dair
bair
air slash
nair
utilt
dash attack
fthrow
bthrow
uthrow
dthrow

Unchanged:

backslash

EDIT

LITTLE MAC JAB NERFED BY ABOUT 30% DAMAGE

32 HITS OF JAB = 27% DAMAGE

PATCH 1.0.3 20 HITS OF JAB = 26% DAMAGE

@ SamuraiPanda

Also Ike's fair and nair are much faster, people are reporting his movement speed has increased but no official testing has been done on that

 

[thatoneguyintheback]

Need confirmation, frame data, or other things that add credibility to the list.

This is something extremely obvious that you could see for yourself

 

[Yosher]

Just a quick note a friend of mine just found out on Bowserciding (not sure if it needs pointing out, but I haven't seen it pointed out yet); if the opponent is fast enough, they can actually still recover due to Bowser dying first. Test it in Training especially on opponents with high vertical recoveries like Dedede and Pit, they'll live. So those who are on the verge of being Bowsercided just need to spam jump and hope they time it right or something.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Loaded up an older patch to test what I think is happening
-@SamuraiPanda


I was wrong about a few things:

1. Fsmash KB angle wasn't changed, pretty sure.
2. Side-b has more interruptable frames, but the total animation time is still the same
3. Paralyzer was, embarrassingly, always releasable before the full charge, but this was extended to her custom moves this patch (didn't exist before). Oops! O:')

Hitbox fixes:
- Side-b works better now; the first hit doesn't launch directly into the sweet-spot in earlier versions. Also recovers faster due to more interruptable frames.
- Forward Smash connects better and is easier to sweetspot, working better on Greninja among others. It is a little safer on block now.
- Neutral air has a different subtly knockback angle now which makes some old combos not work but enables some new (better) ones.
- Down Smash is safer on block, enough that you can jab before the opponent can drop their shield
- Up-B connects better from down throw now (in the air).
- Down throw knockback is different; it starts lower, and instead instead of growing to eventually become more vertical, they are now launched at a set distance in front Zero Suit and the growth is vertical from that set point. I don't know how to explain this in technical terms, but opponents are no longer at a very vertical point from Zero Suit at high % after down throw.
- Zair recovery tether distance reduced when above the stage or too far below the stage. When she is lateral with the stage it is the same.
- Airdodge penalty increased to 22f of lag from 15
- Paralyzer Shot's uncharged shot has a few more frames of recovery. Full charge is unaffected.
- Grab has more recovery.

Customs:
- Blast Shot and Spreading Shot can now be released before being charged fully.
- Spreading Shot now lasts long enough for ZSS to get a follow-up
- Whip Lash got the same buff as normal side-b, it is interruptable from an earlier point
- Impact Kick now properly absorbs the target so that the final hit connects properly
- Lateral Kick now allows ZSS full aerial movement during special fall
- Low Flip travels faster across the field

 

[SamuraiPanda]

@ SamuraiPanda

Also Ike's fair and nair are much faster, people are reporting his movement speed has increased but no official testing has been done on that

Damn you. Im going to stop reading thsi thread while shaving now that I'm EVEN LATER TO WORK

 

[Puppyfaic]

I'm not entirely sure but Game and Watch's down tilt may have less active frames. I can't compare the two versions though so I need someone to test this for me.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Loaded up an older patch to test what I think is happening
-@SamuraiPanda


I was wrong about a few things:

1. Fsmash KB angle wasn't changed, pretty sure.
2. Side-b has more interruptable frames, but the total animation time is still the same
3. Paralyzer was, embarrassingly, always releasable before the full charge, but this was extended to her custom moves this patch (didn't exist before). Oops! O:')

Hitbox fixes:
- Side-b works better now; the first hit doesn't launch directly into the sweet-spot in earlier versions. Also recovers faster due to more interruptable frames.
- Forward Smash connects better and is easier to sweetspot, working better on Greninja among others. It is a little safer on block now.
- Neutral air has a different subtly knockback angle now which makes some old combos not work but enables some new (better) ones.
- Down Smash is safer on block, enough that you can jab before the opponent can drop their shield
- Up-B connects better from down throw now (in the air).
- Down throw knockback is different; it starts lower, and instead instead of growing to eventually become more vertical, they are now launched at a set distance in front Zero Suit and the growth is vertical from that set point. I don't know how to explain this in technical terms, but opponents are no longer at a very vertical point from Zero Suit at high % after down throw.
- Zair recovery tether distance reduced when above the stage or too far below the stage. When she is lateral with the stage it is the same.
- Airdodge penalty increased to 22f of lag from 15
- Paralyzer Shot's uncharged shot has a few more frames of recovery. Full charge is unaffected.
- Grab has more recovery.

Customs:
- Blast Shot and Spreading Shot can now be released before being charged fully.
- Spreading Shot now lasts long enough for ZSS to get a follow-up
- Whip Lash got the same buff as normal side-b, it is interruptable from an earlier point
- Impact Kick now properly absorbs the target so that the final hit connects properly
- Lateral Kick now allows ZSS full aerial movement during special fall
- Low Flip travels faster across the field

stahp i have to work

Added to OP aleady so tag me again if you add/change anything.