3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

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icraq

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Okay I'm almost 90% certain that you can no longer do a running up smash in the beginning of a dash, at least with Rosalina, UNLESS you have tap jump or you jump cancel it. I remember being able to do an up smash at any time after starting my dash in .3. In .4 you can still do an up smash in the first frame or two of a dash but that's it, anything after that you have to wait for a while until you can up smash, otherwise you just dash attack.
 

Yikarur

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Okay I'm almost 90% certain that you can no longer do a running up smash in the beginning of a dash, at least with Rosalina, UNLESS you have tap jump or you jump cancel it. I remember being able to do an up smash at any time after starting my dash in .3. In .4 you can still do an up smash in the first frame or two of a dash but that's it, anything after that you have to wait for a while until you can up smash, otherwise you just dash attack.
I deconfirm this. I feel no changes testing on Marth (who has the longest dash)
 

Firedemon0

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Changes for Pac-Man found

Hydrant HP has been increased to 13%
Galaxian from Bonus fruit damage lowered to 9% (From 11%)
Bounce from Up-B has been reduced slightly for non Pac-man players, Red also places opponents in special fall.
 

Lavani

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Red also places opponents in special fall.
This isn't actually new. I've definitely seen it happen on 1.0.3, but I confirmed on 1.0.1 just now to be safe.

On that note, is there a way to revert to 1.0.3? I assume there weren't many (if any) character balance changes between 1.0.1 and 1.0.3, but the latter would be better for comparison just in case. Especially if an older patch vs no patch at all means I can still use my save data, but I assume save data just doesn't transfer back to previous versions in general.
 
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could someone post in the OP all chars with "unchanged" ? i cant believe that nobody had love to test out samus and fox yet -_-
Already on our to-do list but the best way to know that they are unchanged is to compare the data dump.

No changes to the OP will be made by me for a while though. I just got to work and its going to be a long day :/
 

Elessar

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@ SamuraiPanda SamuraiPanda I removed a few things that were blatant lies, like Link's grab being longer ranged etc
Actually, no one said that it's longer but that now it's accurate. It's not a blatant lie. Before the patch the gab range was actually shorter than the chain. The head of the clawshot would go through the opponent, the grab range being somewhere at 4/5ths of the chain length. That got fixed in that now the range is accurate to the length of the chain. It was a fix, not a buff.
 

Quillion

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WOW that's a lot of outright bugs and glitches.

Did they really want to pull a Bethesda with this game and release it in an unfinished state only to patch it over time?
 

Nobie

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Not that it's going to be really useful until someone is found who can read Japanese but I've found a few videos demonstrating what was in 1.0.3, it doesn't show the changes however it only 'talks' about them.

Part1:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmCHU...
Part2:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYLns...
Part3:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bjwlz...
Part4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUmyc...
Below is a list of the changes claimed by the video. Of course I'm not sure if any of it is accurate. A lot of it is about how there "seem" to be changes, and some of this stuff has been disproven according to this thread. Might be a good list for running tests though. Any notes I make are in [brackets].

Also, the video makes a distinction between "destructive power" and knockback. I'm assuming the former to mean "damage" and have labeled it as such, but am not entirely certain about that.

Mario
-Recovery in general has been reduced [Mainly shows air attacks]

Luigi
-Jumps and Up B go higher
-Has a quicker fastfall

Peach
-No more turnip ledge canceling
-No more ledge canceling

Bowser
-Bowsercide KOs Bowser first

Yoshi
-Yoshi's recovery on dash attack increased
-Neutral B comes out more slowly
-Up B has less range
-no more teleport
-Neutral Air comes out more slowly
-Mega Man is no longer susceptible to grab release -> Up Smash

Rosalina & Luma
-Respawn time on Luma has been increased
-Neutral B has less range, Luma moves more quickly when returning to Rosalina
-Luma can't be controlled after the opponent inputs their throw command
-Neutral Air and Up Smash have been reduced in both damage and knockback

Bowser Jr.
-Forward Smash hits better? [This doesn't quite make sense to me. It might be claiming that the Forward Smash doesn't whiff on up-close opponents as much, but when I tested it the attack missed opponents who were "inside" Bowser Jr.]

Wario
-Aerial movement bug (Wectoring) removed

Diddy Kong
-Up Air's knockback reduced, recovery increased
-No more Peanut Popgun canceling

Donkey Kong
-DK can hit opponents better when they're standing right next to him [Tested this with a Mario walking into DK, forward smash and forward tilt still don't hit, but they do hit if Mario is standing just a tiny distance away. Not sure if this is a change]
-DK's face on his down taunt has changed [If there's any change here it's really minor]

Pit
-Recovery on Down B and Side B have been reduced

Palutena
-Grab reach has been changed
-Down Tilt recovery has been reduced
-The wind on the Forward Smash has become stronger
-No more meteor on Neutral Air

Kirby
-Recovery in general has been reduced
-Dash attack and Smashes are quicker
-Repeated Down Tilt is quicker
-Reach on forward tilt is greater

King Dedede
-Less damage on Forward Air
-Gordos continue on for longer? [This one seems to not make sense. At first I thought it was claiming that Gordo's stay out for longer, but I think it's saying that Dedede takes a bit longer to act after throwing out a Gordo]

Meta Knight
-No more Meteor on Forward Air
-More damage on Smash Attacks
-Meta Knight can grab the ledge at the end of a Side B [It seems to be claiming that Meta Knight can grab the ledge right after Side B finishes, but I tested it and this isn't the case. Meta Knight can grab the ledge during Side B, but I don't know if this has always been the case]

Marth
-Up Throw into Up Air connects at low percentages
-Side B chains come out more quickly
-Quicker dash
-Forward Air reaches behind Marth
-Recovery in general has been reduced

Lucina
-Same changes as Marth's above
-Meteor hitbox on Down Air has been increased
-"Chest has gotten a bit bigger" [I don't think this is testable]

Ike
-Forward Air comes out more quickly
-Jab is quicker
-Less recovery time on Down Tilt and Forward Tilt

Robin
-Less recovery time on grab
-Quicker dash
-Dash attack has changed [Doesn't specify how]
-Can grab the ledge out of a backwards Up B
-No more Thoron jump restoration bug

Link
-No more bomb canceling
-Back Air recovery time has been reduced
-Motion and range have been changed on Link's Up Tilt and Up Smash [I can't tell any difference]

Toon Link
-No more bomb canceling

Zelda
-Down Air, Up Smash, Side Smash, and Side B all come out more quickly and have their recovery times reduced. Visual effects on these moves have changed as well.
-Longer "hit stop" [Not sure if this means hit stun or freeze frames when hitting] on Forward Air, Back Air, Down Air, and Forward Smash

Sheik
-No more Meteor on Up Air
-No more Bouncing Fish ledge canceling
-The rapid fire on Needles is slower
-Damage on Forward Air and Bouncing Fish have been reduced

Ganondorf
-Quicker dash
-Quicker [sharper?] movements in the air

Fox
-No more Meteor on Forward Air
-Recovery on Up Smash is longer
-Side B travels less distance [Looks to be the same to me]

Falco
-Recovery on Neutral B (lasers) has been reduced
-Recover on Up Tilt has been reduced

Pikachu
-Recovery on Forward Air has been reduced
-Recovery on Forward Smash has been reduced

Charizard
-Non-Special attacks in the air come out more quickly

Lucario
-More recovery time on Up B (Extremespeed)
-Damage reduced on Aura Sphere
-Damage reduced on Forward Smash

Jigglypuff
-Spinning Bug [I assume this mean the "Hyper Rollout"] has been removed

Greninja
-Greater recovery time on Water Shuriken
-Greater recovery time on Up Smash
-More damage on Down Smash, less damage on Up Smash
-Up B pushes opponents away less

Mr. Game & Watch
-Bucketing Pikachu's Thunder only fills up one slot

Zero Suit Samus
-Time stuck in Neutral B reduced, less knockback on Neutral B as well
-Easier to hit Greninja with Side Smash
-Recovery time on Forward Air reduced

Ness
-Time stuck in grab increased
-Rapid down tilt is quicker
-Down Air motion has been changed
-More "hit stop" [again, not sure if this means hit stun or freeze frames] in general
-Higher chance of down tilt tripping the opponent

ROB
-Air attacks, Down Smash come out more quickly
-Less mobility in the air

Pikmin & Olimar
-Pikmin follow Olimar better when starting the match with a dash? [The video creator seems to not be so certain about this]
-Longer range on Forward Smash
-Can no longer call back Pikmin who have been tossed off stage

Little Mac
-Neutral A has been weakened
-Less distance on Side B

Villager
-No more ledge-canceled Lloid Rockets
-Up Smash is stronger
-Something feels uncomfortable about Up Tilt
-Recovery time on air dodge increased

Wii Fit Trainer
-The back side of Forward Air no longer hits through shields
-Deep Breathing is more difficult

Shulk
-Easier to connect with both hits of Forward Smash and Up Smash. The inside of the attacks do more damage but is more even or more "Marth-like" [Honestly don't know what that second part means, might refer to the fact that the first hit doesn't send the opponent flying]
-Less time needed to wait for Monado arts to restore themselves? [The wording on this is strange]
-Something about the Down Air Meteor and complete death [I think he means it's easier to kill with it?]
-More invincibility on the Down B counterattack
-Down B's timing is stricter but the move is quicker overall
-Forward Air comes out more quickly
-Harder to pivot out of a dash [I assume this means the time it takes to go from pivot back into dash]
-Throws are stronger
-Back Air is faster

Pac-Man
-Harder to launch the hydrant, neither Back Air nor Melon can break it.
-Grab works up close [Tested this, it works. Previously it would miss if the opponent was too close to Pac-Man]
-Greater recovery on Smash Attacks
-Water bug removed [According to the video, the melon could be launched at super speed after Pac-Man walked up against the hydrant water a couple of times, as if the momentum of the water transferred to the melon]

Mega Man
-More recovery time on Slide
-Slightly less landing lag on Forward Air and Back Air
-Feels like Up Smash and Down Smash come out more quickly and have greater range
-The Up Air Tornado has gotten bigger
-No more Rush Canceling

Captain Falcon
-Up Taunt does damage [Doesn't work, as far as I can tell]
 
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Locuan

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Actually, no one said that it's longer but that now it's accurate. It's not a blatant lie. Before the patch the gab range was actually shorter than the chain. The head of the clawshot would go through the opponent, the grab range being somewhere at 4/5ths of the chain length. That got fixed in that now the range is accurate to the length of the chain. It was a fix, not a buff.
While I do not know if this was fixed, I can confirm your observation that the claw shot would not grab at full length in 1.03. It was indeed around 4/5th's of the actual chain length. The claw itself would be "touching" the opponents character but it would not grab.
 
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Zelda
-Down Air, Up Smash, Side Smash, and Side B all come out more quickly and have their recovery times reduced. Visual effects on these moves have changed as well.
-Longer "hit stop" [Not sure if this means hit stun or freeze frames when hitting] on Forward Air, Back Air, Down Air, and Forward Smash
All false.
 
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I've been testing some characters out, and here are some conclusions. These may not be accurate, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but here's what I gathered:

:4ganondorf:
He runs faster.
F-Tilt deals 1% more damage.
D-Tilt deals 2% more damage and more knockback, KO'ing under 100% now.
Dash Attack now deals 14% damage instead of 12%, especially at late frames.
F-Smash deals much more knockback, capable of KOing opponents at ~60% instead of ~70%.
N-air deals 22% damage instead of 18% (if I remember correctly; I almost never look at damage racking).
F-air deals more knockback and 17% damage instead of 15%-16%, and comes out faster.
D-Air can now KO under 110% damage at meteor.
Neutral Special can KO at 40% when used backward, and 60% forward, now being much stronger.

:4link:
Jab now deals 10% damage instead of 9%
Dash Attack deals 12% damage near the tip instead of 14%, but deals more knockback.
F-Smash 2 has Melee's trajectory near the base of the sword, while also having better vertical knockback.
N-Air:
On the initial kick, it will deal 11% damage now instead of 9%.
After the first few initial frames, it will deal 9% damage.
Near the ending frames, it will deal 6% damage.
It also deals more knockback than before.
F-Air 1 has more knockback, though can still lead up to F-Air 2.
F-Air 2 deals more knockback.

:4drmario:
He runs slower.
He jumps lower.
U-Smash doesn't retain its Melee knockback, and can no longer chain itself into other U-Smashes after 40% instead of 60%.
His recovery is shorter.

Please correct me if any of this information is wrong, or tell me if some is correct.
 

Thinkaman

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We continue to get conflicting reports on this for everything except Nair. I'd like one more person to confirm these before I add them to the OP.
I can definitely confirm the (small) decreases on dair and fair.

I've ran the bair and uair tests several more times now. At this point, I'm convinced there is a change, but it's only 1 frame less, 2 tops. It's really hard to see.
 

SolCalibre

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Pretty sure Dr. Mario has always had this nature in smash, I use him and he doesn't feel like he's changed. The recovery has ALWAYS been shorter than normal Mario.
 
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Oh, I remember something that isn't listed for Little Mac:

F-Smash Upward deals 17% damage instead of 19%.
F-Smash Downward deals 23% damage instead of 20% damage.

Pretty sure Dr. Mario has always had this nature in smash, I use him and he doesn't feel like he's changed. The recovery has ALWAYS been shorter than normal Mario.
Except I feel that between 1.0.3 to 1.0.4, his recovery is just a tad bit shorter.
 

Robertman2

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Below is a list of the changes claimed by the video. Of course I'm not sure if any of it is accurate. A lot of it is about how there "seem" to be changes, and some of this stuff has been disproven according to this thread. Might be a good list for running tests though. Any notes I make are in [brackets].

Also, the video makes a distinction between "destructive power" and knockback. I'm assuming the former to mean "damage" and have labeled it as such, but am not entirely certain about that.

Mario
-Recovery in general has been reduced [Mainly shows air attacks]

Luigi
-Jumps and Up B go higher
-Has a quicker fastfall

Peach
-No more turnip ledge canceling
-No more ledge canceling

Bowser
-Bowsercide KOs Bowser first

Yoshi
-Yoshi's recovery on dash attack increased
-Neutral B comes out more slowly
-Up B has less range
-no more teleport
-Neutral Air comes out more slowly
-Mega Man is no longer susceptible to grab release -> Up Smash

Rosalina & Luma
-Respawn time on Luma has been increased
-Neutral B has less range, Luma moves more quickly when returning to Rosalina
-Luma can't be controlled after the opponent inputs their throw command
-Neutral Air and Up Smash have been reduced in both damage and knockback

Bowser Jr.
-Forward Smash hits better? [This doesn't quite make sense to me. It might be claiming that the Forward Smash doesn't whiff on up-close opponents as much, but when I tested it the attack missed opponents who were "inside" Bowser Jr.]

Wario
-Aerial movement bug (Wectoring) removed

Diddy Kong
-Up Air's knockback reduced, recovery increased
-No more Peanut Popgun canceling

Donkey Kong
-DK can hit opponents better when they're standing right next to him [Tested this with a Mario walking into DK, forward smash and forward tilt still don't hit, but they do hit if Mario is standing just a tiny distance away. Not sure if this is a change]
-DK's face on his down taunt has changed [If there's any change here it's really minor]

Pit
-Recovery on Down B and Side B have been reduced

Palutena
-Grab reach has been changed
-Down Tilt recovery has been reduced
-The wind on the Forward Smash has become stronger
-No more meteor on Neutral Air

Kirby
-Recovery in general has been reduced
-Dash attack and Smashes are quicker
-Repeated Down Tilt is quicker
-Reach on forward tilt is greater

King Dedede
-Less damage on Forward Air
-Gordos continue on for longer? [This one seems to not make sense. At first I thought it was claiming that Gordo's stay out for longer, but I think it's saying that Dedede takes a bit longer to act after throwing out a Gordo]

Meta Knight
-No more Meteor on Forward Air
-More damage on Smash Attacks
-Meta Knight can grab the ledge at the end of a Side B [It seems to be claiming that Meta Knight can grab the ledge right after Side B finishes, but I tested it and this isn't the case. Meta Knight can grab the ledge during Side B, but I don't know if this has always been the case]

Marth
-Up Throw into Up Air connects at low percentages
-Side B chains come out more quickly
-Quicker dash
-Forward Air reaches behind Marth
-Recovery in general has been reduced

Lucina
-Same changes as Marth's above
-Meteor hitbox on Down Air has been increased
-"Chest has gotten a bit bigger" [I don't think this is testable]

Ike
-Forward Air comes out more quickly
-Jab is quicker
-Less recovery time on Down Tilt and Forward Tilt

Robin
-Less recovery time on grab
-Quicker dash
-Dash attack has changed [Doesn't specify how]
-Can grab the ledge out of a backwards Up B
-No more Thoron jump restoration bug

Link
-No more bomb canceling
-Back Air recovery time has been reduced
-Motion and range have been changed on Link's Up Tilt and Up Smash [I can't tell any difference]

Toon Link
-No more bomb canceling

Zelda
-Down Air, Up Smash, Side Smash, and Side B all come out more quickly and have their recovery times reduced. Visual effects on these moves have changed as well.
-Longer "hit stop" [Not sure if this means hit stun or freeze frames when hitting] on Forward Air, Back Air, Down Air, and Forward Smash

Sheik
-No more Meteor on Up Air
-No more Bouncing Fish ledge canceling
-The rapid fire on Needles is slower
-Damage on Forward Air and Bouncing Fish have been reduced

Ganondorf
-Quicker dash
-Quicker [sharper?] movements in the air

Fox
-No more Meteor on Forward Air
-Recovery on Up Smash is longer
-Side B travels less distance [Looks to be the same to me]

Falco
-Recovery on Neutral B (lasers) has been reduced
-Recover on Up Tilt has been reduced

Pikachu
-Recovery on Forward Air has been reduced
-Recovery on Forward Smash has been reduced

Charizard
-Non-Special attacks in the air come out more quickly

Lucario
-More recovery time on Up B (Extremespeed)
-Damage reduced on Aura Sphere
-Damage reduced on Forward Smash

Jigglypuff
-Spinning Bug [I assume this mean the "Hyper Rollout"] has been removed

Greninja
-Greater recovery time on Water Shuriken
-Greater recovery time on Up Smash
-More damage on Down Smash, less damage on Up Smash
-Up B pushes opponents away less

Mr. Game & Watch
-Bucketing Pikachu's Thunder only fills up one slot

Zero Suit Samus
-Time stuck in Neutral B reduced, less knockback on Neutral B as well
-Easier to hit Greninja with Side Smash
-Recovery time on Forward Air reduced

Ness
-Time stuck in grab increased
-Rapid down tilt is quicker
-Down Air motion has been changed
-More "hit stop" [again, not sure if this means hit stun or freeze frames] in general
-Higher chance of down tilt tripping the opponent

ROB
-Air attacks, Down Smash come out more quickly
-Less mobility in the air

Pikmin & Olimar
-Pikmin follow Olimar better when starting the match with a dash? [The video creator seems to not be so certain about this]
-Longer range on Forward Smash
-Can no longer call back Pikmin who have been tossed off stage

Little Mac
-Neutral A has been weakened
-Less distance on Side B

Villager
-No more ledge-canceled Lloid Rockets
-Up Smash is stronger
-Something feels uncomfortable about Up Tilt
-Recovery time on air dodge increased

Wii Fit Trainer
-The back side of Forward Air no longer hits through shields
-Deep Breathing is more difficult

Shulk
-Easier to connect with both hits of Forward Smash and Up Smash. The inside of the attacks do more damage but is more even or more "Marth-like" [Honestly don't know what that second part means, might refer to the fact that the first hit doesn't send the opponent flying]
-Less time needed to wait for Monado arts to restore themselves? [The wording on this is strange]
-Something about the Down Air Meteor and complete death [I think he means it's easier to kill with it?]
-More invincibility on the Down B counterattack
-Down B's timing is stricter but the move is quicker overall
-Forward Air comes out more quickly
-Harder to pivot out of a dash [I assume this means the time it takes to go from pivot back into dash]
-Throws are stronger
-Back Air is faster

Pac-Man
-Harder to launch the hydrant, neither Back Air nor Melon can break it.
-Grab works up close [Tested this, it works. Previously it would miss if the opponent was too close to Pac-Man]
-Greater recovery on Smash Attacks
-Water bug removed [According to the video, the melon could be launched at super speed after Pac-Man walked up against the hydrant water a couple of times, as if the momentum of the water transferred to the melon]

Mega Man
-More recovery time on Slide
-Slightly less landing lag on Forward Air and Back Air
-Feels like Up Smash and Down Smash come out more quickly and have greater range
-The Up Air Tornado has gotten bigger
-No more Rush Canceling

Captain Falcon
-Up Taunt does damage [Doesn't work, as far as I can tell]
Lucina's chest is bigger?
 
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Shulk
-Easier to connect with both hits of Forward Smash and Up Smash. The inside of the attacks do more damage but is more even or more "Marth-like" [Honestly don't know what that second part means, might refer to the fact that the first hit doesn't send the opponent flying]
-Less time needed to wait for Monado arts to restore themselves? [The wording on this is strange]
-Something about the Down Air Meteor and complete death [I think he means it's easier to kill with it?]
-More invincibility on the Down B counterattack
-Down B's timing is stricter but the move is quicker overall
-Forward Air comes out more quickly
-Harder to pivot out of a dash [I assume this means the time it takes to go from pivot back into dash]
-Throws are stronger
-Back Air is faster
Some of this don't have to be double checked (Talking about throw, smash connecting and meteor smash). The rest need double checking

I don't feel any difference with the arts cooldown, vision, bair, fair (coming out quicker) and pivot
 
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GreenFlame

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Would it be safe for me to update now? I would like to so I can contribute to the conquest, but I want to be able to check differences between the versions as well. Are there enough people who have V1.0.3 and V1.0.4 that I can update?

I've also heard there's data mining going on...

So, should I update my 3DS (my brother's 3DS already has the update and is what I used to compare version differences, I want to know if I should update my 3DS' Smash data)?
 
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Thinkaman

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I've been testing some characters out, and here are some conclusions. These may not be accurate, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but here's what I gathered:

:4ganondorf:
He runs faster.
F-Tilt deals 1% more damage.
D-Tilt deals 2% more damage and more knockback, KO'ing under 100% now.
Dash Attack now deals 14% damage instead of 12%, especially at late frames.
F-Smash deals much more knockback, capable of KOing opponents at ~60% instead of ~70%.
N-air deals 22% damage instead of 18% (if I remember correctly; I almost never look at damage racking).
F-air deals more knockback and 17% damage instead of 15%-16%, and comes out faster.
D-Air can now KO under 110% damage at meteor.
Neutral Special can KO at 40% when used backward, and 60% forward, now being much stronger.

:4link:
Jab now deals 10% damage instead of 9%
Dash Attack deals 12% damage near the tip instead of 14%, but deals more knockback.
F-Smash 2 has Melee's trajectory near the base of the sword, while also having better vertical knockback.
N-Air:
On the initial kick, it will deal 11% damage now instead of 9%.
After the first few initial frames, it will deal 9% damage.
Near the ending frames, it will deal 6% damage.
It also deals more knockback than before.
F-Air 1 has more knockback, though can still lead up to F-Air 2.
F-Air 2 deals more knockback.

:4drmario:
He runs slower.
He jumps lower.
U-Smash doesn't retain its Melee knockback, and can no longer chain itself into other U-Smashes after 40% instead of 60%.
His recovery is shorter.

Please correct me if any of this information is wrong, or tell me if some is correct.
All of this is incorrect.
 

popsofctown

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Would it be safe for me to update now? I would like to so I can contribute to the conquest, but I want to be able to check differences between the versions as well. Are there enough people who have V1.0.3 and V1.0.4 that I can update?

I've also heard there's data mining going on...

So, should I update my 3DS (my brother's 3DS is already updated and is what I used to compare version differences, I want to know if I should update my 3DS)?
Conquest is overrated. You actually get more loot from single player. And with 1.03 you can use less laggy greninja to farm single player, yay!

I actually think the hat drop rate might have gone up slightly to account for the excessive difficulty in 100%ing the game, and it might have been at the expense of custom move drops (though it could have been at the cost of equip drops instead)
 
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