3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Thinkaman]

Too many casuals to even try. Damn you casuals supporting a simplified smash bros.

Behold.

THE ALPHA JOHN.

 

[Berserker.]

Wait a minute, I thought we all agreed that Kirby was unchanged....

 

[the101]

Despite popular belief, I have encountered some things new with Kirby.
- neutral-aerial has greater range
- automatically cancels out when Kirby touches the ground with no lag, making it very easily to transition into another attack for combos
- n-air does have aerial end-lag, however. One cannot immediately jump after performing this attack

I don't believe Kirby was like this previously, and I use him regularly, but I could be wrong. I may just not have noticed this ability in 1.0.3.

 

[Shog]

Just a question:
Did someone already try to ask Nintendo for Patch Notes? Even if no specific infos would be given, atleast character names could have been named

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Below is a list of the changes claimed by the video. Of course I'm not sure if any of it is accurate. A lot of it is about how there "seem" to be changes, and some of this stuff has been disproven according to this thread. Might be a good list for running tests though. Any notes I make are in [brackets].

Also, the video makes a distinction between "destructive power" and knockback. I'm assuming the former to mean "damage" and have labeled it as such, but am not entirely certain about that.

Mario
-Recovery in general has been reduced [Mainly shows air attacks]

Luigi
-Jumps and Up B go higher
-Has a quicker fastfall

Peach
-No more turnip ledge canceling
-No more ledge canceling

Bowser
-Bowsercide KOs Bowser first

Yoshi
-Yoshi's recovery on dash attack increased
-Neutral B comes out more slowly
-Up B has less range
-no more teleport
-Neutral Air comes out more slowly
-Mega Man is no longer susceptible to grab release -> Up Smash

Rosalina & Luma
-Respawn time on Luma has been increased
-Neutral B has less range, Luma moves more quickly when returning to Rosalina
-Luma can't be controlled after the opponent inputs their throw command
-Neutral Air and Up Smash have been reduced in both damage and knockback

Bowser Jr.
-Forward Smash hits better? [This doesn't quite make sense to me. It might be claiming that the Forward Smash doesn't whiff on up-close opponents as much, but when I tested it the attack missed opponents who were "inside" Bowser Jr.]

Wario
-Aerial movement bug (Wectoring) removed

Diddy Kong
-Up Air's knockback reduced, recovery increased
-No more Peanut Popgun canceling

Donkey Kong
-DK can hit opponents better when they're standing right next to him [Tested this with a Mario walking into DK, forward smash and forward tilt still don't hit, but they do hit if Mario is standing just a tiny distance away. Not sure if this is a change]
-DK's face on his down taunt has changed [If there's any change here it's really minor]

Pit
-Recovery on Down B and Side B have been reduced

Palutena
-Grab reach has been changed
-Down Tilt recovery has been reduced
-The wind on the Forward Smash has become stronger
-No more meteor on Neutral Air

Kirby
-Recovery in general has been reduced
-Dash attack and Smashes are quicker
-Repeated Down Tilt is quicker
-Reach on forward tilt is greater

King Dedede
-Less damage on Forward Air
-Gordos continue on for longer? [This one seems to not make sense. At first I thought it was claiming that Gordo's stay out for longer, but I think it's saying that Dedede takes a bit longer to act after throwing out a Gordo]

Meta Knight
-No more Meteor on Forward Air
-More damage on Smash Attacks
-Meta Knight can grab the ledge at the end of a Side B [It seems to be claiming that Meta Knight can grab the ledge right after Side B finishes, but I tested it and this isn't the case. Meta Knight can grab the ledge during Side B, but I don't know if this has always been the case]

Marth
-Up Throw into Up Air connects at low percentages
-Side B chains come out more quickly
-Quicker dash
-Forward Air reaches behind Marth
-Recovery in general has been reduced

Lucina
-Same changes as Marth's above
-Meteor hitbox on Down Air has been increased
-"Chest has gotten a bit bigger" [I don't think this is testable]

Ike
-Forward Air comes out more quickly
-Jab is quicker
-Less recovery time on Down Tilt and Forward Tilt

Robin
-Less recovery time on grab
-Quicker dash
-Dash attack has changed [Doesn't specify how]
-Can grab the ledge out of a backwards Up B
-No more Thoron jump restoration bug

Link
-No more bomb canceling
-Back Air recovery time has been reduced
-Motion and range have been changed on Link's Up Tilt and Up Smash [I can't tell any difference]

Toon Link
-No more bomb canceling

Zelda
-Down Air, Up Smash, Side Smash, and Side B all come out more quickly and have their recovery times reduced. Visual effects on these moves have changed as well.
-Longer "hit stop" [Not sure if this means hit stun or freeze frames when hitting] on Forward Air, Back Air, Down Air, and Forward Smash

Sheik
-No more Meteor on Up Air
-No more Bouncing Fish ledge canceling
-The rapid fire on Needles is slower
-Damage on Forward Air and Bouncing Fish have been reduced

Ganondorf
-Quicker dash
-Quicker [sharper?] movements in the air

Fox
-No more Meteor on Forward Air
-Recovery on Up Smash is longer
-Side B travels less distance [Looks to be the same to me]

Falco
-Recovery on Neutral B (lasers) has been reduced
-Recover on Up Tilt has been reduced

Pikachu
-Recovery on Forward Air has been reduced
-Recovery on Forward Smash has been reduced

Charizard
-Non-Special attacks in the air come out more quickly

Lucario
-More recovery time on Up B (Extremespeed)
-Damage reduced on Aura Sphere
-Damage reduced on Forward Smash

Jigglypuff
-Spinning Bug [I assume this mean the "Hyper Rollout"] has been removed

Greninja
-Greater recovery time on Water Shuriken
-Greater recovery time on Up Smash
-More damage on Down Smash, less damage on Up Smash
-Up B pushes opponents away less

Mr. Game & Watch
-Bucketing Pikachu's Thunder only fills up one slot

Zero Suit Samus
-Time stuck in Neutral B reduced, less knockback on Neutral B as well
-Easier to hit Greninja with Side Smash
-Recovery time on Forward Air reduced

Ness
-Time stuck in grab increased
-Rapid down tilt is quicker
-Down Air motion has been changed
-More "hit stop" [again, not sure if this means hit stun or freeze frames] in general
-Higher chance of down tilt tripping the opponent

ROB
-Air attacks, Down Smash come out more quickly
-Less mobility in the air

Pikmin & Olimar
-Pikmin follow Olimar better when starting the match with a dash? [The video creator seems to not be so certain about this]
-Longer range on Forward Smash
-Can no longer call back Pikmin who have been tossed off stage

Little Mac
-Neutral A has been weakened
-Less distance on Side B

Villager
-No more ledge-canceled Lloid Rockets
-Up Smash is stronger
-Something feels uncomfortable about Up Tilt
-Recovery time on air dodge increased

Wii Fit Trainer
-The back side of Forward Air no longer hits through shields
-Deep Breathing is more difficult

Shulk
-Easier to connect with both hits of Forward Smash and Up Smash. The inside of the attacks do more damage but is more even or more "Marth-like" [Honestly don't know what that second part means, might refer to the fact that the first hit doesn't send the opponent flying]
-Less time needed to wait for Monado arts to restore themselves? [The wording on this is strange]
-Something about the Down Air Meteor and complete death [I think he means it's easier to kill with it?]
-More invincibility on the Down B counterattack
-Down B's timing is stricter but the move is quicker overall
-Forward Air comes out more quickly
-Harder to pivot out of a dash [I assume this means the time it takes to go from pivot back into dash]
-Throws are stronger
-Back Air is faster

Pac-Man
-Harder to launch the hydrant, neither Back Air nor Melon can break it.
-Grab works up close [Tested this, it works. Previously it would miss if the opponent was too close to Pac-Man]
-Greater recovery on Smash Attacks
-Water bug removed [According to the video, the melon could be launched at super speed after Pac-Man walked up against the hydrant water a couple of times, as if the momentum of the water transferred to the melon]

Mega Man
-More recovery time on Slide
-Slightly less landing lag on Forward Air and Back Air
-Feels like Up Smash and Down Smash come out more quickly and have greater range
-The Up Air Tornado has gotten bigger
-No more Rush Canceling

Captain Falcon
-Up Taunt does damage [Doesn't work, as far as I can tell]

Sadly, that Kirby info is fake. It's exactly the same across versions.

 

[GreenFlame]

Conquest is overrated. You actually get more loot from single player. And with 1.03 you can use less laggy greninja to farm single player, yay!

I actually think the hat drop rate might have gone up slightly to account for the excessive difficulty in 100%ing the game, and it might have been at the expense of custom move drops (though it could have been at the cost of equip drops instead)

I'm also upset about all these Sheik nerfs, yet ZSS gets buffed through the roof. I'm hesitant to update.

Also the reason I wanna contribute Conquest is because I want to rep Luigi (the best character ever).

 

[an1bal]

@ SamuraiPanda Megaman's uair is quite obviously been enlarged visually, and hitboxes are larger as well.

or not... wait im checking again

 

[popsofctown]

I'm also upset about all these Sheik nerfs, yet ZSS gets buffed through the roof. I'm hesitant to update.

Also the reason I wanna contribute Conquest is because I want to rep Luigi (the best character ever).

I will play a Conquest Luigi game that I wouldn't have otherwise if you don't update :D

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ganon's aerials all have decreased lag.

 

[Radical Larry]

All of this is incorrect.

Then explain at least some of my misinformation then. (Because honestly, I don't look much to stuff)

 

[Elessar]

While I do not know if this was fixed, I can confirm your observation that the claw shot would not grab at full length in 1.03. It was indeed around 4/5th's of the actual chain length. The claw itself would be "touching" the opponents character but it would not grab.

Thank you. Now it has been fixed and the range matches the chain.

@ Thinkaman , could you please confirm this so it gets added to the OP again. Thanks.

 

[Thinkaman]

I'm also upset about all these Sheik nerfs, yet ZSS gets buffed through the roof. I'm hesitant to update.

Also the reason I wanna contribute Conquest is because I want to rep Luigi (the best character ever).

Most the ZSS changes listed are not real.

 

[GreenFlame]

I will play a Conquest Luigi game that I wouldn't have otherwise if you don't update :D

Go to For Fun, Free-for-all, and win the match. If you do it in a four player match and you win, you controbute more points (like 12 poits or something).

If you can win a For Fun free-for-all with Luigi, I will probably not update.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wario's moves are also exactly the same btw. They only fixed bugs including his VI, grab release and his bike.

 

[Thinkaman]

Then explain at least some of my misinformation then. (Because honestly, I don't look much to stuff)

I'm not sure what there is to explain. None of these moves have been changed.

Thank you. Now it has been fixed and the range matches the chain.

@ Thinkaman , could you please confirm this so it gets added to the OP again. Thanks.

Confirmed fake, or trivially undetectable if it is there.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Despite popular belief, I have encountered some things new with Kirby.
- neutral-aerial has greater range
- automatically cancels out when Kirby touches the ground with no lag, making it very easily to transition into another attack for combos
- n-air does have aerial end-lag, however. One cannot immediately jump after performing this attack

I don't believe Kirby was like this previously, and I use him regularly, but I could be wrong. I may just not have noticed this ability in 1.0.3.

This is fake, too. The N-Air "changes" regarding lag was in 1.0.3 and the range is placebo.

 

[GreenFlame]

Most the ZSS changes listed are not real.

Then who decided to list them in the OP without confirming them?

 

[Thinkaman]

Then who decided to list them in the OP without confirming them?

I have no idea. They were but there early on. I disproved a couple and they were never changed.

The mods have really had their hands full with this topic; multiple people editing a post at once is problematic.

 

[popsofctown]

Go to For Fun, Free-for-all, and win the match. If you do it in a four player match and you win, you controbute more points (like 12 poits or something).

If you can win a For Fun free-for-all with Luigi, I will probably not update.

Go to For Fun, Free-for-all, and win the match. If you do it in a four player match and you win, you controbute more points (like 12 poits or something).

If you can win a For Fun free-for-all with Luigi, I will probably not update.

Ok. I will try

 

[Elessar]

I have no idea. They were but there early on. I disproved a couple and they were never changed.

The mods have really had their hands full with this topic; multiple people editing a post at once is problematic.

It might've been a better idea to reduce the number of people contributing rather than having everyone pour out information. While massive input has it's benefits, it also has the steep downside of too much confusion and misinformation being thrown around.

Also on Link's grab. I've tested it throroughly yesterday and it did seem as if they fixed the reduced disjoint of the grab box. In th eprevious version the grab was noticeably shorter than the chain. That's odd. I'll be editing the Link boards patch notes to test that further. Thanks again.

 

[Locuan]

Now it has been fixed and the range matches the chain.

While I saw it happen constantly in 1.03, I still cannot say if it has been changed for 1.04. I have not seen its difference at least in my recent matches. But I have not had a lot of matches against Link at this point in the current game's iteration. Which is why I said I could not confirm or deny the claim for 1.04 at least in my case. The best thing you could do if you want to confirm it is get an image with both the grab at full range in 1.04 and compare it to 1.03. Same distances etc.

 

[Lavani]

Brought Link into training in 1.0.4 to check and I literally had the claw fully inside his chest without grabbing him. Doesn't look any different to me.

 

[foxyopiumfun]

I dont know if anyone mentioned this but it seems like pac-mans D-air keeps them in the kicks for the full duration instead of just knocking them around.

 

[Elessar]

While I saw it happen constantly in 1.03, I still cannot say if it has been changed for 1.04. I have not seen its difference at least in my recent matches. But I have not had a lot of matches against Link at this point in the current game's iteration. Which is why I said I could not confirm or deny the claim for 1.04 at least in my case. The best thing you could do if you want to confirm it is get an image with both the grab at full range in 1.04 and compare it to 1.03. Same distances etc.

Problem is that I don't know anyone who hasn't updated their Smash yet, so I can't create that image. I tested the grab yesterday (one of the first things I tested since I missed so many grabs due to that disjoint) and now it seemed to match the chain. I'll see if I can find a way to test it further though because I haven't missed a grab due to disjoint in any of my matches yesterday, whereas before it was common. Thanks.

 

[Thinkaman]

These are all confirmed false:

Hitbox fixes:
- Side-b works better now; the first hit doesn't launch directly into the sweet-spot in earlier versions. Also recovers faster due to more interruptable frames.
- Forward Smash connects better and is easier to sweetspot, working better on Greninja among others. It is a little safer on block now.
- Neutral air has a different subtly knockback angle now which makes some old combos not work but enables some new (better) ones.
- Down Smash is safer on block, enough that you can jab before the opponent can drop their shield
- Up-B connects better from down throw now (in the air).
- Down throw knockback is different; it starts lower, and instead instead of growing to eventually become more vertical, they are now launched at a set distance in front Zero Suit and the growth is vertical from that set point. I don't know how to explain this in technical terms, but opponents are no longer at a very vertical point from Zero Suit at high % after down throw.
- Zair recovery tether distance reduced when above the stage or too far below the stage. When she is lateral with the stage it is the same.

These are all true:

- Airdodge landing lag increased to 22f of lag from 15
- Paralyzer Shot's uncharged shot has a few more frames of recovery. Full charge is unaffected.
- Can no longer footstool infinite Robin.

I am unable to directly compare customs; my 1.0.3 game has no ZSS customs unlocked.

 

[Yikarur]

I tested it a lot too. Links Grab seems unchanged.

 

[Thinkaman]

Problem is that I don't know anyone who hasn't updated their Smash yet, so I can't create that image. I tested the grab yesterday (one of the first things I tested since I missed so many grabs due to that disjoint) and now it seemed to match the chain. I'll see if I can find a way to test it further though because I haven't missed a grab due to disjoint in any of my matches yesterday, whereas before it was common. Thanks.

I'm doing them side by side. It's unchanged. The tether can go inside Mario's body without grabbing him the same amount, from the same range.

 

[Jasku]

Seriously? Sonic has no changes?

 

[Thinkaman]

Seriously? Sonic has no changes?

Unfortunately, yes. I think he was the only prospective top tier not nerfed, sadly.

 

[Jasku]

Unfortunately, yes. I think he was the only prospective top tier not nerfed, sadly.

Top tier? I don't really think he is top tier, he's a good character, but not one of the best.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Too much misinformation is being posted. People need to stop posting random impressions on a whim. This is not an impression thread. Only post things if you have actually tested them.

Unfortunately, yes. I think he was the only prospective top tier not nerfed, sadly.

Fox and Peach have no character-specifics nerfs that I know of.

 

[Thinkaman]

I found a topical old article I wrote:

http://www.fantasystrike.com/forums/index.php?threads/everybody-hates-balance.3514/

 

[ZombieBran]

Top tier? I don't really think he is top tier, he's a good character, but not one of the best.

This is probably no place to discuss this but Sonic was a prospective top tier before the patch.
Now that two of the top tiers have been nerfed significantly, he is definitely up there.

 

[Lavani]

Fox and Peach have no character-specifics nerfs that I know of.

If we aren't taking Peach's bugfixes to be nerfs, then Diddy wasn't nerfed either.

I don't think a tier list discussion is very conducive to this thread's purpose though.

 

[Berserker.]

100% on this.

The only custom that was modified with Shulk that I know as of the moment is.... Advancing air slash. It deals 1% more damage on the first hit like default air slash. I did not try out mighty air slash yet, but very other custom is the same from 1.03

@ ZombieBran you're in my sig lol. dat sarcas--- I meant truth

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Unfortunately, yes. I think he was the only prospective top tier not nerfed, sadly.

That isn't unfortunate to me lol. Also Sonic is good but not top tier. He's no Yoshi, ZSS, Sheik, or Rosalina.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

*shrug* I don't know, just my opinion, hopefully more movement techniques will be discovered as the game is released on the WII U in the US, but whatever.

They probably would exist for 2 weeks before being patched. Some speed tech was already discovered (Link Toss thing) and it's gone.

 

[theta64]

SO one notable change to LITTLE MAC is that his KO meter now takes 100%+to charge instead of 80%. 80% was the max damage until it was fully charged

 

[Myran]

I tested it out in Training on 1.0.4, and Rosalina can still pull in purples with Down B.


I took an in-game screenshot of Olimar using Fsmash from the left edge of Battlefield Omega in 1.0.3. Then I took another screenshot in 1.0.4 with the exact same conditions and compared the two, as screenshots are not affected by patch changes. From what I took, Fsmash seems to go about the same distance as before.

As for Pikmin Throw...

Interesting, glad someone could reliably test it. I will admit that I took others word on this topic since I didn't have the most reliable method to test that.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I have been trying out a lot of things and I was hoping to get some help testing this out between versions.

Can someone (@ Thinkaman ) test to see if all air dodges now properly AC when the IASA kicks in instead of after (which required you to buffer an aerial to circumvent landing lag). I feel like this is the case, but I'm not sure if this is a universal change or just character specific.

Also, is it possible to Roll Cancel Pivot Grab while standing in place in 1.04? I can't seem to do it anymore.

I got the roll cancel backwards grab (while standing still) to work, if that's what you wanted. I only practiced the forward one so it took a while... Not sure if timing is different, but still in.f