(」・ω・)」 MARS la Marf in Smash 4 (／・ω・)／

[Shaya]

Thx for that link

**** you Mr "I threw away two opportunities to meet the best guy in the universe". 444444444444444444444
4
4444444447777777776777777777777874444477777777144441

trying to get something stuck under my keyboard.

And I'm out.

 

[Raziek]

All you can do is say oh well, it's the past, it won't happen again, and move on.

Yeah but I can't seem to do that.

That's why I'm asking.

 

[Shaya]

It's about knipping it in the butt (aussie phrases yo) after the first match (or as early as possible). Realise when you're iffy and rather than becoming complacent (or put it off to something 'eh' and think I'll win the next one for sure), really really really try to focus on what you need to do to pull it off.

"Take a breather" (do some inhaling/exhaling and maybe attempt that clutch in-tournament 9billion decibel background noise meditation)
drink some water, loosen up your hands and the rest of your body.

If it's something like a match up inexperience or something else that was just a personally badly matched (like I'm bad against rollers, throw a roll spamming Olimar at me pre-recent US trip and see me get 3 stocked) then you "got outplayed" and as disappointing as that can really be, you're either striving competitively to go further or you lose that drive (or it was already waning). Otherwise you just need to think more about what was going wrong and what you need to avoid. If something dumb happens and that's the reason you lost it's either going to end you (which if you tell anyone that's the reason you get the "OH NO JOHNS" crap, and it sucks) or you get over it and push further. I've lost sets that started off with heavy leads but a random trip costs me the first match and the frustration got me for the rest; all I can say is that you need to keep these to your locals (or not worry about them at all [hard, I know]).

The should've won thing is a curse, but you WILL get over it by your next tournament probably (although some losses / tournament disappointments **** with you forever passively...) but if you can't move on, then that's a whole other problem.

So essentially
All you can do is say oh well, it's the past, it won't happen again, and move on
or be super ****ing proactive when you're in danger of disappointment.

All

 

[NH Cody]

Last tourney I tripped into an fsmash game 3 when I had a 30% lead and died.

fun times

 

[Nike.]

SUP GUISEEEEEEEEEEE

What's happened lately?

 

[Zano]

We replaced you with some new guy cause you were gone too long.


Also I play LoL now, the seed that was planted months ago finally took root.

 

[Shaya]

That 'accidental' social ostracising that occurred all the time while everyone else talked about or played LoL together.

"ANYONE WANT TO PLAY BRAWL?"
"NO" they said to Zano.

 

[Zano]

Hey, that only happened once and it was a year ago : (

 

[Kel]

CJ! Help me with the ICs and Falco MU!

 

[C.J.]

Hit them more and harder than they hit you!

What specifically/do you have matches?

 

[cannedbread]

the title of this thread makes me giggle every time i see it on the front page. just thought i would let you all know.

 

[Kel]

CJ, you're just usually super helpful at breaking things down and explaining things in case I missed something. I went from losing to Infern's Snake one week to beating him (convincingly) the next after picking up Marth a couple weeks before just because you told me the power of full hop Fair.

I just watched Calico cat Vs 9B. Now I am mad haha. The MU is a lot of full hop fair to dolphin slash and pray the ICs mess up. Does not seem very promising. Most of Calico cat's recent matches are vs Snake, MK and Olimar from what I see on youtube.

 

[clowsui]

Calico cat is the best vs Olimar for sure.

I want a mikeneko =(

as for ICs vs marth i think delux provides the most reliable/best answer in the post he responded to you w:

Believe it or not yours was pretty difficult for me. I think it comes down to fair and landing precision since the frame advantage is there if done right. I actually wasn't running forward and shielding looking for a grab. I was running in and hoping you'd get nervous about running out of stage and then try to hit Nana lagging behind me from the grab setup cool down so I could run past and pivot grab you so I didn't have to worry about the fair. That situation only happened like once in our set. The rest were strictly mistake punishers iirc.

also Infern's snake is *** he almost lost to me too LOL

 

[Player-3]

delux is nob i 3 stocked him marth v ics at apex on delfino

Spoiler

everything else was close or i lost iirc

then he 3 stocked me consistently vs my luigi


damn you delux

 

[Lord Chair]

from the fact that Motherless is now the first thing to pop up rather than Marth when i type the letter M in my firefox i can deduct that you guys are now officially more boring than the most amateuristic of pornos

chapeau

 

[Shaya]

Well chair.

You may have an amateur porn fetish.

 

[Lord Chair]

does the invincibility of upb on frame 1 also cancel all shield pushback (increasing its effective range)?

never really thought of it like that but it seems reasonable

 

[Shaya]

I don't think so, but there are some "never looked at technically by anyone" parameters to how you can angle dolphin slash that may nullify it.

 

[Zano]

mikeneko won a tourney in japan, discuss.

 

[Shaya]

He probably used Meta Knight.

 

[clowsui]

Shaya is a non-believer.

 

[PEACE7]

Word who did he beat there?

 

[C.J.]

Random, random, Abadango, Brood (WQF), Shu (WSF), Otori (WF), lost to Otori (GF1), beat Otori (GF2)

 

[PEACE7]

WoW he had a tough bracket and still won good **** can't wait for the videos

 

[NH Cody]

Fantastic stuff!

 

[GOofyGV]

I saw stream GF 2 was really hype but then when the real end came they stoped the stream and 10 minutes later we saw results with Mikeneko being 1st.

 

[Shaya]

He probably played MK in those last 10 minutes.

 

[Zano]

it was a coverup

smash illuminati

 

[clowsui]

I made this post in a diff thread, but it's good for here too.

Q: Is Mikeneko the best Marth?

Mikeneko has a winning record vs Otori, the best record vs M2K in seriouslies, and a winning record vs Maguro. He has an even W/L ratio vs brood, a fantastic ratio vs Nietono (i don't think Nietono has beaten Mikeneko more than twice), never lost vs Abadango. He has a positive record vs Kuroobi, Shu, and dio. He has a positive record vs Yui. He's beaten masha once in pools. He's beaten Havok. He's beaten Suinoko at least once (just barely).

Looking at his losses, most notably he has a negative record vs RAIN. He lost to KyuB once. He's lost to Daiki's MK at least once, idk about the rest of the times. He's lost vs Luminous at least once, maybe twice. He has a negative record vs Shogun (which is wtf, shogun looks like the easiest to beat as Marth lol) - though he lost to Shogun twice at the same tourney.

So i'd actually like to revise my earlier statement about Mikeneko [being better than the other Marths but not a tier better]. He's very clearly a better Marth than all the other ones by virtue of his stellar (and still improving) record, and is arguably a whole tier better than the other Marths by the strength of this record alone.

Possible objections to this claim:
- Suboptimal play in several MUs. Doesn't matter too much in the long run, so long as he gets the W it's what matters.
- Doesn't have to worry about being CP'd. Marth gets weaker the closer your stage list approaches the middle of the spectrum (but gets stronger the more liberal your stagelist is, Marth is seriously good on Norfair Brinstar RC...). This point is difficult to argue against but even with the addition of YI + LC he's done better, so going by that data it's possible to extrapolate that he is unlikely to do worse w a larger stage list.
- Mikeneko only plays in at most one DE bracket and one SE bracket, meaning he plays in 1.5 events as opposed to foreign players that typically play in a full 3 events (singles pools, singles, doubles). He faces the least amount of fatigue wrt all marths. This is probably the strongest argument "against" Mikeneko but also the most subjective one.

 

[Mr-R]

Couple of things regarding mikeneko( vs mk )

- Instead of edgeguarding, he just pressures otori to go for the ledge every time

- His ledge trapping is better than mine /mikes / leons

- Instead of anticipating tornados and reacting to it with counters/up b he holds shield and up's out of it. Theres no risk of missing your counters or up b's this way

- When otori glides at mikeneko he sometimes slightly walks back, crouches, waits for his glide attack to come out and punishes with d tilt

- He almost never uses full hop

- he uses alot of SH retreating fairs

Man wish I had a good mk closeby to practice this on !

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Mikeneko's records from the top of my head:

At least 0-3 with Rain
About 0-3 with Shogun
About 1-3 with Nietono
0-1 with daiki, Luminous and Kyuubi
3-2 or 3-1 with Otori and Yui
About 3-0 with Shu
Slightly favorable vs Brood [like 2-1 or 3-2 or something]
2-0 vs Abadango
1-0 vs Maguro

Those are his records that really matter. His pool win vs Masha was a best of 1 set and is not representative imo.

 

[clowsui]

I'm almost certain he's beaten Nietono more than once...but you're the expert

also just to comment on Ramin's post:

MKs in japan are so good at recovery. it's insane. i respect mikeneko's lack of offstage risk for that reason LOL though I think he could stand to pressure more offstage

it's because of the spacing that he's at i think. you guys aren't as tight w your spacing but you play more movement tricks + aerials tricks. meanwhile mikeneko knows about all that and then some but chooses to take 0 risks and instead focuses on punishing the MK's landing rather than interrupting him. it's a different approach, i like it

i think he should counter vs tornado more to lure them into doing certain kinds of tornadoes

the glide thing is neat. one thing you might wanna take note of too is that he occasionally faces backwards to the MK so that way if the MK decides to gamble w fair or close tilts he's ready to respond w tip DS

fullhopping is so hard to control vs the MK. it requires more prediction than mikeneko would like, i think. he's very reactive.

on that note he uses the SH retreating fair because that's the option that gives him the least risk + most flexibility in terms of adjusting pressure + timing. notice how he how much mileage he gets out of like 3-4 types of fair, i think that's incredible.

i do think that out of all the marths mikeneko is actually the most susceptible to tyrant though. mikeneko's recovery is the worst out of all the top marths (he's starting to learn though). if tyrant is on his game he will outfootsie mikeneko every time and condition the hell out of him...and let's not even talk about offstage rofl

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I disagree with your entire last paragraph.

The reason Mikeneko's spacing and zoning seems more solid is because he hardly ever dashes. If he wants to close a gap between his opponent and himself he always chooses to walk. He only dashes when he can safely follow up with a SH fair. It takes a lot of discipline to pull that off so consistently. I think he covers pretty accurately what the theorists would consider "ideal Marth gameplay". Personally, I think the ideal gameplay for Marth lies somewhere between Mikeneko's play and Ramin's style of applying pressure to gain great rewards. I don't really think there's more room for Marth to grow than that.

 

[clowsui]

I actually think if someone came up w a credible way (ie control scheme) to sticky walk consistently + transition from sticky walking we could see a lot of growth for Marth. It's faster than walking, behaves as a walk and does not bear risk of tripping (iirc)

 

[C.J.]

Ramin is mean =(

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o509/nobody045/RaminsMean.jpg

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ramean.

 

[clowsui]

Nah he's right CJ your tech skill is ***. Fthrow -> Dair on wolf is ez

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Those Clowsui double Phantasms off stage tho...

 

[C.J.]

Ramean.

I laughed

Nah he's right CJ your tech skill is ***. Fthrow -> Dair on wolf is ez

So?

Still mean =(

Those Clowsui double Phantasms off stage tho...

#shotsfired

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

C.J. is like the nicest stalker ever.

He shows up wherever I post but I don't mind. Usually my stalkers are perverted old men trying to get it in. And the occasional Clowsui popping up the random character boards I post in This is refreshing.