ThunderSt0rm
Smash Champion
Same here. We really should focus on getting some completed mu guides up with updated info and all.
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☆ Official Luigi Match-Up Thread! ☆
- Thread starter Luigisama
- Start date
Ice climbersCounter-picks:
Rainbow cruise, Lylat cruise, Frigate orpheon, pokemon stadium 1, and pokemon stadium 2
Bans: Delfino plaza, castle siege, and FD
All stages except ps1 and ps2 have good platforms that can help Luigi avoid ICs grabs.
Each stage transforms and this can conflict with ICs trying to get a grab on Luigi. Also the stage transformations cancel all grabs so if you get caught in a cg it will get canceled.
Rainbow cruise: Chances are the Ic user is going to switch characters, but in the event that they don't. Approach carefully and don't do risky moves. Separate the ics with jab cancel to dsmash , Luigi cyclone, or aerials (preferably fairs). Once you separate the Ics go after Nana with bairs and get her off the stage. Also when you can get the ics in air and prevent them from getting on platforms since they suck at recovering on RC while it is moving.
Lylat cruise: This stage benefits Luigi more than the Ics since the stage tilts a lot this conflicts with the ics' neutral b projectile because it won't travel as far and the stage tilt doesn't conflict with Luigi at all.
Frigate orpheon: Stage transformation is annoying for both Luigi and Ics, but in the event that both characters get caught under the stage WE have THREE ways/jumps of recovering and ics only have two
. Also when Frigate is in the first transformation (when there is only one edge) separate the ics or bair them both into oblivion off the stage towards the right. Since there is no edge on the right of the stage ics will be forced to land on the platform that rises up and down you can get a free hit. Last thing if you have a stock lead and the timer is about to run out Scrooge them. An Edge jump then side b under the stage and recover on the other side.
Ps1 and ps2: Once again Stage transformation cancel grabs and the changes in the stage in ps2 can force the ics to fight instead of grab. The wind part of the stage can help if Luigi can get Ics in the air and at this moment abuse aerials. Also in the wind part the push from the wind helps for early up b kills. Although on Ps2 if it changes to the ice form then Luigi will be screwed because ics don't slide on ice and Luigi slidiness will get him caught in grabs and other attacks. All transformations for ps1 can be both bad and good for both luigi and ics.
Bans
Delfino plaza: It’s the combination of FD and RC. Sure there are platforms to stay away from the ics, but most of stage transformations are flat and all it takes is one grab.
Final destination: Koro has it put best so look at his quote.
Castle siege: It’s pretty much a cage with no escape from Ics. The only beneficial part of the stage is the first one. The second part is bad for Luigi in that the statues will cut off his range for aerials and a smart ics will stay at the bottom or near the edge to cg Luigi to death. The last part is a flat stage although it tilts it doesn't really help in stopping the ics from getting a grab.
Other info. Fire balls go through Blizzard
If you separate the ics and nana flops on the ground. Try to predict where she rolls and up b that harlot.
Jab to dsmash works only on hit box 1 and hit box 2 of jab 1. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199907bo
I hope this info helps. :3 meow
Rainbow cruise, Lylat cruise, Frigate orpheon, pokemon stadium 1, and pokemon stadium 2
Bans: Delfino plaza, castle siege, and FD
All stages except ps1 and ps2 have good platforms that can help Luigi avoid ICs grabs.
Each stage transforms and this can conflict with ICs trying to get a grab on Luigi. Also the stage transformations cancel all grabs so if you get caught in a cg it will get canceled.
Rainbow cruise: Chances are the Ic user is going to switch characters, but in the event that they don't. Approach carefully and don't do risky moves. Separate the ics with jab cancel to dsmash , Luigi cyclone, or aerials (preferably fairs). Once you separate the Ics go after Nana with bairs and get her off the stage. Also when you can get the ics in air and prevent them from getting on platforms since they suck at recovering on RC while it is moving.
Lylat cruise: This stage benefits Luigi more than the Ics since the stage tilts a lot this conflicts with the ics' neutral b projectile because it won't travel as far and the stage tilt doesn't conflict with Luigi at all.
Frigate orpheon: Stage transformation is annoying for both Luigi and Ics, but in the event that both characters get caught under the stage WE have THREE ways/jumps of recovering and ics only have two
. Also when Frigate is in the first transformation (when there is only one edge) separate the ics or bair them both into oblivion off the stage towards the right. Since there is no edge on the right of the stage ics will be forced to land on the platform that rises up and down you can get a free hit. Last thing if you have a stock lead and the timer is about to run out Scrooge them. An Edge jump then side b under the stage and recover on the other side.Ps1 and ps2: Once again Stage transformation cancel grabs and the changes in the stage in ps2 can force the ics to fight instead of grab. The wind part of the stage can help if Luigi can get Ics in the air and at this moment abuse aerials. Also in the wind part the push from the wind helps for early up b kills. Although on Ps2 if it changes to the ice form then Luigi will be screwed because ics don't slide on ice and Luigi slidiness will get him caught in grabs and other attacks. All transformations for ps1 can be both bad and good for both luigi and ics.
Bans
Delfino plaza: It’s the combination of FD and RC. Sure there are platforms to stay away from the ics, but most of stage transformations are flat and all it takes is one grab.
Final destination: Koro has it put best so look at his quote.
Castle siege: It’s pretty much a cage with no escape from Ics. The only beneficial part of the stage is the first one. The second part is bad for Luigi in that the statues will cut off his range for aerials and a smart ics will stay at the bottom or near the edge to cg Luigi to death. The last part is a flat stage although it tilts it doesn't really help in stopping the ics from getting a grab.
Other info. Fire balls go through Blizzard
If you separate the ics and nana flops on the ground. Try to predict where she rolls and up b that harlot.
Jab to dsmash works only on hit box 1 and hit box 2 of jab 1. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199907bo
I hope this info helps. :3 meow
I know a lot of info for the Luigi v.s peach match up so I'll complie up some info on it.
As for Olimar unless I can get a match with a good oilmar I have little info on him.
I know a good strategy for playing against Diddy, but I still need to figure out some good stages to play against him.
As for Olimar unless I can get a match with a good oilmar I have little info on him.
I know a good strategy for playing against Diddy, but I still need to figure out some good stages to play against him.
ThunderSt0rm
Smash Champion
Nice, got some helpful info from that.
yw dude. Also as a little more info on the luigi v.s ics match up. okay this sounds super DUMB,but I have reason to believe that this strategy that I made up works because I've tried it only on a ics player bonk in a tourney. By using this strategy I managed to get Bonk down to one stock and I almost won the match (it was 1-1), but I got to over confident and I got grabbed. I had a healthy stock x_x
Basically apporoach by using your first jump(no attacking) and get close to the ics. Then on Luigi's second jump just jump a little bit high over the ics and land safely. Then repeat it but this time do Luigi's cyclone on the second jump and you might separate the ics. You're pretty much like hovering over the ics and waiting to attack. This is pretty much imo a mindgame because an ics user is so concentrated on getting the grab that they'll do two of the following
1. run back and forth to get a pivot grab.
2. up air or up tilt
Also psycholgically an ics user might get greedy and think that they can get a grab during the Luigi cyclone so they will let go of there shield. If they fail to block the whole cyclone then the ics will be separated.
ThunderSt0rm
Smash Champion
I tend to do a rising cyclone from the ground if I see that ics/someone is shielding the attack. I usually get high enough where they can't grab me after the attack is over.
Peach match up
The thorn in Luigi's side or as I like to say Luigi's aerial rival As stated by Darch pch in the link, peach can pressure Luigi with turnips and most of her air moves are beat Luigi's air moves. Also off stage peach can edge guard Luigi with her turnips and her Fair. Peach's Fair is godly against Luigi since it can kill at the lowest percentage and also the way peach mains set it up is in three ways.
1. One turnip is thrown in the air and if Luigi gets up on the stage by normal get up or attack get up. The turnip will hit Luigi causing hit stun and peach does her Fair. Sure you can roll get up, but in this case a smart that is expecting all of Luigi's way of getting up will skip the hit stun plan and go straight for Fair hitting Luigi during his roll phase.
2. Peach floats close enough to the edge to have Luigi in range for the Fair. Best way to avoid this is to just wait for peach to fall back to the ground or fire ball from the edge to get a chance to get back on the stage. Nadoing back on the stage can work to, unless you're facing a peach that has well timed Fairs you're screwed.
3. (I call this "raining turnips")Peach throws turnips in the air above the edge and holds a turnip in her hand. The one in air will hit Luigi after his invincibility phase ends, unless Luigi re grabs the edge to get the invincibility phase again. Although in the moment that Luigi tries to re grab the edge his head is exposed or the hit boxes for his are like extended and peach can then get close to Luigi to Fair him. I'm not sure how many hit boxes they're, but I know for a fact that I die mostly because of this.
The best way to get back on the stage against a peach is side b either towards the edge or just bit below the stage then recovery with 2nd jump to up b. The danger in recovering overall is that peach can throw her turnips and stop Luigi from recovering with side b and Peach can hurt Luigi by dropping her turnips above Luigi during his cyclone. This will could stop the cyclone entirely causing Luigi to fall to his death.
approaching: It is really difficult to approach peach because of her turnips and her aerials beat most of Luigi's. The best way to approach peach imo is by jumping then fireball then land with a Fair. Bair and fire balls is good to use, but Peach's Fair destroys the fire balls and the Fair will go through hitting Luigi. Also predicting and fire balling when Peach is going to float is helpful. Up air can be used on Peach, but only when Peach is going to start floating because she is vulnerable when she starts floating. Lastly Luigi's Up tilt can kill peach at 110% since Luigi's up tilt is pretty much a quick up smash.
Tips and tricks: Sliding dsmash can be helpful to use against peach before she lands or when she is trying to reach the edge. If Luigi lands his dsmash before Peach grabs the edge it could cause a stage spike because of the way that Luigi's dsmash works. Also there is a great combo to pull off on peach.
1. Knock peach away from the stage
2. 1st jump fair then 2nd jump fair
3. Luigi cyclone back to the edge and Up b if needed
The way this works is that when peach is knocked away from the stage peach will do either float to the edge or use her 2nd jump. Before she does anything The 1st Fair will stop Peach from floating and trying to re float or it will waste her 2nd jump. Then peach will be forced to use up b, but the 2nd Fair will stop the up b knocking peach away from the stage. Although there is a chance that peach might recover, but with good edge guarding this can be prevented and as a bonus if the Luigi cyclone hits Peach it will knock her farther from the stage preventing her from recovering.
Counter picks: Halberd, Final destination, pokemon stadium 1, battlefield
Halberd: The platform in this stage is closer to the death zone of the top screen and it helps in getting up tilts, nair, or up smash kills.
Final destination: Peach can float all around the stage she wants, but the large amount of space of the stage helps Luigi in playing defensive. Jump fire ball and bair spacing is helpful in play defensive on FD and watching what peach does to counter it. Also the combo fair fair can be used on this stage and if Luigi can get peach under the stage it is a free kill.
Pokemon stadium 1: just like Fd because it has a lot of space for Luigi to play defensive. Also Luigi can do his combo listed in tips and tricks, but this stage also helps peach. Peach can use "raining turnips" when Luigi is at the edge. Lastly when the stage transforms into the wind mill part Luigi has not space to run and is trapped with peach.
Battlefield: The four platforms help in getting an up tilt kill just like in Halberd and peach can't reuse her turnips because if the turnips land on the platform they disappear.
Bans: Yoshi's Island, Rainbow cruise, Pictochat(in the event it is legal)
Yoshi's Island: This stage hurts Luigi because of the 3 ways that Peach can set up her Fair kill and since the stage has a flat side Luigi has to get back on the stage otherwise "raining turnips" will happen. The only good thing about this stage is the tilting of the platform which helps in getting up tilt kills.
Rainbow cruise: Sure lets see who can stay in the air the longest. Peach will torment Luigi on Rc especially since Luigi's fire balls only travel so far while Peach can throw turnips at Luigi and all Luigi can do is shield. The only good thing about this stage is that once Rainbow cruise is at the high point of the stage near the top of the screen up tilt kills are made easier.
(only if its legal)Pictochat: All the obstructions in the stage both help and hurt Luigi and peach. But just like Yoshi's Island the side of the stage is flat and "raining turnips" will occur. Although the stage is large so Luigi can play defensive against peach unless that stack of boxes forms Luigi will have to get inside.
The thorn in Luigi's side or as I like to say Luigi's aerial rival As stated by Darch pch in the link, peach can pressure Luigi with turnips and most of her air moves are beat Luigi's air moves. Also off stage peach can edge guard Luigi with her turnips and her Fair. Peach's Fair is godly against Luigi since it can kill at the lowest percentage and also the way peach mains set it up is in three ways.
1. One turnip is thrown in the air and if Luigi gets up on the stage by normal get up or attack get up. The turnip will hit Luigi causing hit stun and peach does her Fair. Sure you can roll get up, but in this case a smart that is expecting all of Luigi's way of getting up will skip the hit stun plan and go straight for Fair hitting Luigi during his roll phase.
2. Peach floats close enough to the edge to have Luigi in range for the Fair. Best way to avoid this is to just wait for peach to fall back to the ground or fire ball from the edge to get a chance to get back on the stage. Nadoing back on the stage can work to, unless you're facing a peach that has well timed Fairs you're screwed.
3. (I call this "raining turnips")Peach throws turnips in the air above the edge and holds a turnip in her hand. The one in air will hit Luigi after his invincibility phase ends, unless Luigi re grabs the edge to get the invincibility phase again. Although in the moment that Luigi tries to re grab the edge his head is exposed or the hit boxes for his are like extended and peach can then get close to Luigi to Fair him. I'm not sure how many hit boxes they're, but I know for a fact that I die mostly because of this.
The best way to get back on the stage against a peach is side b either towards the edge or just bit below the stage then recovery with 2nd jump to up b. The danger in recovering overall is that peach can throw her turnips and stop Luigi from recovering with side b and Peach can hurt Luigi by dropping her turnips above Luigi during his cyclone. This will could stop the cyclone entirely causing Luigi to fall to his death.
approaching: It is really difficult to approach peach because of her turnips and her aerials beat most of Luigi's. The best way to approach peach imo is by jumping then fireball then land with a Fair. Bair and fire balls is good to use, but Peach's Fair destroys the fire balls and the Fair will go through hitting Luigi. Also predicting and fire balling when Peach is going to float is helpful. Up air can be used on Peach, but only when Peach is going to start floating because she is vulnerable when she starts floating. Lastly Luigi's Up tilt can kill peach at 110% since Luigi's up tilt is pretty much a quick up smash.
Tips and tricks: Sliding dsmash can be helpful to use against peach before she lands or when she is trying to reach the edge. If Luigi lands his dsmash before Peach grabs the edge it could cause a stage spike because of the way that Luigi's dsmash works. Also there is a great combo to pull off on peach.
1. Knock peach away from the stage
2. 1st jump fair then 2nd jump fair
3. Luigi cyclone back to the edge and Up b if needed
The way this works is that when peach is knocked away from the stage peach will do either float to the edge or use her 2nd jump. Before she does anything The 1st Fair will stop Peach from floating and trying to re float or it will waste her 2nd jump. Then peach will be forced to use up b, but the 2nd Fair will stop the up b knocking peach away from the stage. Although there is a chance that peach might recover, but with good edge guarding this can be prevented and as a bonus if the Luigi cyclone hits Peach it will knock her farther from the stage preventing her from recovering.
Counter picks: Halberd, Final destination, pokemon stadium 1, battlefield
Halberd: The platform in this stage is closer to the death zone of the top screen and it helps in getting up tilts, nair, or up smash kills.
Final destination: Peach can float all around the stage she wants, but the large amount of space of the stage helps Luigi in playing defensive. Jump fire ball and bair spacing is helpful in play defensive on FD and watching what peach does to counter it. Also the combo fair fair can be used on this stage and if Luigi can get peach under the stage it is a free kill.
Pokemon stadium 1: just like Fd because it has a lot of space for Luigi to play defensive. Also Luigi can do his combo listed in tips and tricks, but this stage also helps peach. Peach can use "raining turnips" when Luigi is at the edge. Lastly when the stage transforms into the wind mill part Luigi has not space to run and is trapped with peach.
Battlefield: The four platforms help in getting an up tilt kill just like in Halberd and peach can't reuse her turnips because if the turnips land on the platform they disappear.
Bans: Yoshi's Island, Rainbow cruise, Pictochat(in the event it is legal)
Yoshi's Island: This stage hurts Luigi because of the 3 ways that Peach can set up her Fair kill and since the stage has a flat side Luigi has to get back on the stage otherwise "raining turnips" will happen. The only good thing about this stage is the tilting of the platform which helps in getting up tilt kills.
Rainbow cruise: Sure lets see who can stay in the air the longest. Peach will torment Luigi on Rc especially since Luigi's fire balls only travel so far while Peach can throw turnips at Luigi and all Luigi can do is shield. The only good thing about this stage is that once Rainbow cruise is at the high point of the stage near the top of the screen up tilt kills are made easier.
(only if its legal)Pictochat: All the obstructions in the stage both help and hurt Luigi and peach. But just like Yoshi's Island the side of the stage is flat and "raining turnips" will occur. Although the stage is large so Luigi can play defensive against peach unless that stack of boxes forms Luigi will have to get inside.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
If you wanna beat ICs
-Jab > Dsmash
-Jab > SH Aerial
-Fireball through blizzard walls
-Tornado their landing
-Do Luigi things once they are off the ground.
-Jab > Dsmash
-Jab > SH Aerial
-Fireball through blizzard walls
-Tornado their landing
-Do Luigi things once they are off the ground.
wow I was editing my post on peach and I was logged out so my whole edited post is gone. Aw I'll redo it when I get home.
-Fireball through blizzard walls
No this doesn't work. The blizzard walls disintegrates the fire balls. Also Ics neutral b is stopped by the fire ball, but Luigi can't fire ball again quickly enough to stop the second one.
-Fireball through blizzard walls
No this doesn't work. The blizzard walls disintegrates the fire balls. Also Ics neutral b is stopped by the fire ball, but Luigi can't fire ball again quickly enough to stop the second one.
yoshq
Smash Master
what? no it doesn't.
yoshq
Smash Master
that's the only thing luigi has against the blizzard, i remember that even though i haven't played the mu in a long time.
John12346
Smash Master
Someone explain Luigi vs Diddy to me.
Does Weegee have any advantages offside the fact Diddy can't banana combo him? What should I generally be doing in this matchup?
Does Weegee have any advantages offside the fact Diddy can't banana combo him? What should I generally be doing in this matchup?
yoshq
Smash Master
BigLøu
Smash Lord
You need to rush down diddy with Luigi before he can set up his banana camping game.
Honestly other then the fact luigi can kill diddy early, he doesnt really have many advantages. (well other then jab of course)
Honestly other then the fact luigi can kill diddy early, he doesnt really have many advantages. (well other then jab of course)
boss8
Smash Hero
that matchup isnt as bad for diddy as u think it would be...though i should warn u to keep him at a one banana limit...
John12346
Smash Master
Okay, so I basically gotta stay close. Similar to a lot of other characters' matchups against Diddy.
How good is Fireball in the MU? Is Utilt any good, either?
How good is Fireball in the MU? Is Utilt any good, either?
ScAtt77
Smash Journeyman
Fireball isn't really that special in this match up. It'll help you camp though if you manage to get a banana in hand. Utilt can still juggle relatively well.
Oh, and Luigi's cyclone wrecks Diddy's recovery.
Oh, and Luigi's cyclone wrecks Diddy's recovery.
John12346
Smash Master
When you say Cyclone, do you mean I should drop down onto Diddy with my second jump still in hand? You're probably referring to when Diddy recovers low, right?
ThunderSt0rm
Smash Champion
I'm guessing that's what he meant. Like, go off the edge and rising cyclone just enough to stall inbetween diddy and the ledge.
Right?
Right?
yoshq
Smash Master
no, falling cyclone until you hit diddy, then jump and upb. risky but effective.
boss8
Smash Hero
you do realize luigi's up-b comes out faster then some characters grabs?
ThunderSt0rm
Smash Champion
You mean don't make an attempt to rise at all? Is this when diddy is recovering with up b below the ledge?
Chaosgriffin
Smash Ace
well if you go straight down with cyclone you will have some trouble getting back, try to stall it out a bit by mashing b, but yeah, essentially just fall with it
ThunderSt0rm
Smash Champion
What about doing it if diddy isn't right below the ledge? Should we only do this if they're using up b from somewhere to get back?
yoshq
Smash Master
this is only during his upb, because when hit out of it, there's super hitstun
ThunderSt0rm
Smash Champion
And cyclone outprioritizes diddy's up b?
Chaosgriffin
Smash Ace
i think its just the fact that we hit him out of it, not sure if we just straight up beat it
exdia_16
Smash Journeyman
i think this will give you an idea of wat to do and not to do. also watching the whole set can show you also how to pressure Diddy.
Game one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfDUMBuVEbA
Game two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAglBLaSV40
Game three: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrNP_bh4qKY
This was MM for $5.
Game one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfDUMBuVEbA
Game two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAglBLaSV40
Game three: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrNP_bh4qKY
This was MM for $5.
John12346
Smash Master
As far as Diddy's UpB, I'm pretty sure you're gonna end up trading hits with him, which is good, because it actually stops you from falling any further with Cyclone and allows you to begin your recovery/edgeguard.
John12346
Smash Master
Did you get hit as well? Or did you keep falling?
Chaosgriffin
Smash Ace
^ wait wut?
yoshq
Smash Master
Updated. Removed old videos, added some new ones, and filled in Olimar and Peach.
Hmm just wondering what do you guys think about adding Crouch canceling to every move of luigi's?
So far on testing it with crouch cancel Luigi can get his shield out on the following moves.
fire ball
bair land
fair land
upair land
sadly it doesn't affect the the lag after Luigi cyclone and a landing up b. I honestly find this useful.
So far on testing it with crouch cancel Luigi can get his shield out on the following moves.
fire ball
bair land
fair land
upair land
sadly it doesn't affect the the lag after Luigi cyclone and a landing up b. I honestly find this useful.