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☆ Official Luigi Match-Up Thread! ☆

DE_Desti

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
296
Location
Luxemburg
Yes you can punish the nado after mk finishes it since he goes into free fall. I've done it before. It is impossible to SDI nado, but I will agree that you can DI after the last hit which is when the nado stops completely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kAX5O1ftpo (keep the annotations on)


Yeah I already stated that you hit mk from above the nado. Bair and fireball can only go through the nado during the start up of the nado because it has less priority. Also it is true if you hit the nado it will cancel it out forcing mk to do a side b, but it is hard to punish that when he goes across the stage.


I agree, but the Fair thing I've tried doing that and all I get is a fair hitting mk and his shuttle loop hitting me at the same time. Then mk does another shuttle loop and I die. Also you're right just read mk movement, but I always end up recovering in the two ways I listed and I manage to make it back safe to the stage.
what do you talk bro Oo, impossible to Sdi out of nado? as long as your are not complete in it, you can sdi where you want. I already show it to jbandrew (and it was wifi) Offline is it easier to do. There is no other way to punish mk after a good used nado. His hasn't any landing lag after this, so he can move with the next nado away.

I don't know exactly the prios of all frames during the nado, but i'm sure that the fireball can stop it also in the middle at the attack.

And bside is ur dead. I can garanteed you, even if europe hasn't that much mks, they would all punish this bside move. The Fair is just good if you haven't any other options free. Every move of luigi is ofstage punishable.

But how can it be, that you guys, who have so much mks in the country, haven't found yet a way to be better against mk??
Luigi vs Snake is also -3 for us, but I didn't lose to Snakes. I also played against Ally on BBI, where we have really close matches (and I had just started to replay this awesome character)
 

DE_Desti

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
296
Location
Luxemburg
Zero suit Samus mu info









Most of the info here helps, but I'm going to try to add some info to this. I never played PatG or nickriddle. But I have played enough ZSS online and this exp has helped me against any ZSS mains that I have encountered in tourneys.

Luigi has to be careful when getting in because ZSS will just stop his advances with side b or well spaced Dsmashes. Use fireballs for both damage and for fakes so you can get inside. If the ZSS that you're fighting against uses side b or neutral b a lot bait it by running towards them then jump Dair, but don't FF the dair or you'll land in the tether of the side b. You can also do this with Nair.

Save your bthrow when ZSS is at high percents because ZSS is really good at DI and it won't kill her so just use Dthrow to nair or upsmash. Jabs are really useful, but don't expect to get up b since Zss is a fast faller and has short landing lag so it might work and it might not. Jab to cyclone can work, but only if ZSS DI into you. If you do manage to get the cyclone if ZSS airdodges do it again to rack up damage or at least punish the airdodge.

Also Jab to dsmash, dtlit, and ftilt always works on the first hit box of jab 1 and sometimes on the second hit box. Mix it up when you get the chance to do any of these moves.
1. you could spam jab1 to dsmash and rack up damage.
2. jab1 to dtlit at a high percentage it will cause Zss to bounce of the ground and try to buffer a upsmash or fsmash. Nair after dtilt they might not expect it.
3. Use jab1 to ftilt to create space. This can be your "get away from" move or use it to push ZSS to the edge and edge guard.

Most importantly jab cancel to jab cancel. By doing this not only do you get some damage on ZSS, but you could get a up b out of this if ZSS starts to DI away from you. Stop the jab cancel and they'll go in that direction, read it and up b as punish.

Lastly and I can't stress this enough. Be careful of dsmash to down b down b spike. I almost always fall for this because I tend to undermine the chances of it happening. Look out for it if ZSS hits you towards the edge and look out for it when you recover.

Video references
none atm.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIJr9UdRrw8 I'll put this video for now.
Since I played a lots (i would say 100 of matches against Quiksilver) I can say one thing to this. Every move has more prios than yours or are even. Jab upB doesn't work, also Zss will just use jabs too to come out of ours.
 

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
2,957
Location
New york
But how can it be, that you guys, who have so much mks in the country, haven't found yet a way to be better against mk??
Luigi vs Snake is also -3 for us, but I didn't lose to Snakes. I also played against Ally on BBI, where we have really close matches (and I had just started to replay this awesome character)
yeah it is very confusing. Frankly the last tourney I went to I was ready to fight an mk, but I didn't get one.

oh btw De_ Desti I can see your reasoning for some of the things you have posted and I think maybe if you really have good knowledge on a mu or something you should post more. I would like to see your info posted because this could probably helps us U.S.A luigi's since what we see in tourneys isn't exactly the same thing Europe Luigi's see. After all we have different stage list. So I really recommend that you use Google translate and put your native language than translate it to english then copy and paste it here. Like I'm really being serious right now this cooperation could help us both. ;)

This also goes for Luigi mains in any other country.
 

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
2,957
Location
New york
R.O.B mu info
Tornado has a much higher reward in this matchup than in others. Punish ROB with it for easy air setups, since ROB sucks once he goes in the air, and he sucks at getting back down. Not to mention he's horribly easy to punish if he goes to the edge.

Keep in mind however, he's good at punishing predicted Tornadoes. Watch out for lasers...powershield his lasers and then try to punish.

Up-smash is incredible in this matchup. Predict his DI and you can get one off really easy especially if you're good at outtiming air dodges.

So anyhow, watch out for lasers, and his tilts. Those are probably his hardest attacks to get past if he's smart about using them. And keep in mind, he can be a nasty juggler too. Getting regrabbed after a D-throw is not cool.
watch out for nair, dsmash, dtilt and lazers
jab cancels, using follow-up options (dsmash, tilts, upb etc) Is easier to use because of robs size and weight.if you manage to get a hold of the gyro you can glide toss into some deadly results like any smash attack, upb also...but that's more of a side note thing shouldn't always be going for the glide toss, too predictable.
ok if Rob ledgecamps, I usually wait for him to use his gyro. Once he throws it out, try to catch it to limit him and spam fireballs to put more pressure on him. The laser does have a recharge time so try to get him then. :O
Luigi vs. Rob:
Make sure your not gimped well.
As Biglou said….fireballs work pretty well and back air is great vs. his recovery. Up air works well on platforms and tap a combos work well.
If you get close, up b combos work well and so does down throw to up air.
Abuse platforms. Seriously, if you want to beat a good Rob on a neutral, Battlefield is your best bet. Up air on platforms help a lot. Either that or Yoshi’s due to the low ceiling

Best neutral is Battlefield or Yoshi’s
Worst neutral is FD by far probably followed by Smashville
Lylat is fine…if the stage is allowed for neutrals

Ban FD and Frigate Orpheon

Counterpick stages with a low ceiling or something that allows luigi to recover better by aid of hazards. I personally like Norfair, Haliberd, and for neutrals BF.
Rob- bait the spotdodge. Luigis jab comes out before rob can do anything out of the spotdodge so its pretty much an instant up b. I like to spam bair in this matchup, a well spaced bair beats robs nair. It also owns his recovery. Robs really easy to combo too. Fireballs can help in this matchup but robs fair can just swat it away, if your smart with it though it can set up for up bs.
In this match-up, Luigi must be moderately aggressive but also conscious of spacing himself properly so as to not get punished. R.O.B. has his Laser beam and Gyro projectiles; they cannot be stopped with fireballs but luckily are not spammable. The Gyro is canceled by your tornado. Beware of horizontal recovery as R.O.B.'s F-air can gimp you pretty easily. Also, his ground attacks have very little start up lag; they come out at you lighting quick, especially his D-smash. U-smash is also very deadly. He is heavier and can be juggled fairly well, but be weary of his D-air. Most of your aerials have higher priority as well, so take advantage of fighting in the air. Note that it is very difficult to edgeguard against R.O.B. as his recovery is extremely versatile. For the most part the match-up is even, but R.O.B. does have a slight advantage in his recovery and ability to gimp yours.
ROB's Advantages:

Luigi slides a lot. Down smashing his shield is safe.
ROB outranges luigi by a lot. Camp hard, tilt a lot.
Good edgeguarding game.

ROB's Disadvantages:

Luigi can combo ROB pretty hard because he's floaty and his aerials are so fast.
Forward smash also kills early. About 90% pre hit with good DI if tilted up.
Luigi can also air dodge to the ground almost seamlessly, if he does this expect him to grab or attack immediately. If he gets in on you I simply recommend rolling away -- it'll minimize the combo.
What ROB should try to do:
Camp and poke until mid-high percents. Then edgeguard. Be wary of misfires (Fair out prioritizes a misfire though, you just have to react); avoid combos, don't spotdodge/airdodge predictably or you'll eat an early death. Don't be above luigi -- obvious I would think. Upair beats everything he has if he approaches from above. Constantly space by moving in and out of ftilt range. Note that attacking his shield is especially safe.
Counterpicks :
ROB should pick Frigate Orpheon.

Bans:
ROB should ban Battlefield or Halberd. Always strike Battlefield first.

Preferred Neutral:
I think Final Destination is our best neutral for this matchup. I don't like Yoshi's Island, but I don't think it's ban worthy.
The first thing on the beginning of the match, will be either a lazer ro your face or a charging up gyro or charging up and throw it immediately. It's usually the 2nd or 3rd option. The most problematic matchup is approaching here. If Rob or you approach, you'll eat unnesscary %.

If he throws the gyro, obviously take it because it'll cut his projectile game in half, and giving yours a temporily boost. And for your stupidity, do not throw it as soon as you get it. Make openings with fireballs, and learn how to glide toss with the gyro. Gliding toss luigi gives sexy results, he slides far and can lead to possible shoryukens, upsmashs and other stuff.

If you have to approach without the gyro and if he has it in his possession, just simply throw fireballs, SH aerials or empty SHs, or Z-catch it (I'm pretty sure luigi can Z-catch a item as well with no lag what so ever, get at me this later tho). Gyro's can be easily caught, but of course watch out for Rob's glide toss as it leads to things like Fsmashs. So again, just go with fireballs, well spaced Bairs and suprising tornados as it will wreck their spotdodge game. Rob's ftilt is the most problematic one since its what I believe disjointed, his best ground game spacer, and outranges everything luigi has on the ground and possible on the air. Tornado approach clank with his ftilt. Rob's won't keep ftilt forever though. Remember creativity will help you work inside Rob's range. Once your inside you'll rack up damage very quick.


Rob's approach option's actually suck. The only reliable approach option is either Fair or well placed Nair. You can shield his double Fair if he does it or do a upsmash OOS. Just make sure you watch out if he has a gyro. In general, both luigi and rob just have about near the same approach options.

I'll discuss offstage since it's abit easier to summarize. Few thing's though. Force rob to use fuel. If he recovers high, juggle trap, follow DI, airchase him down/use rising tornado if it's safe. What I find helpful is Bair stage spikes completely wreck him. Places like BF and final destination prove useful here. Your Bair is about equal or near outrange his Fair (I'm not completely sure but I know Mario's Bair trades off hits with his FAir so I'm assuming luigi's will be the same as well.) if he's at a correct distance he'll have a lazer and a gyro so becareful of that. WAlls of pain actually work here if you do manage to get him far if he doesn't DI properly. Fireballs partially help here too. Sometimes tornado gimps/stage spikes also hurt him. Just be aggressive offstage just don't get below him or else you'll get spiked.

As for luigi getting hit offstage it's abit trouble some too. Gyros/Lazers mess up your wreck recovery. He has a DAir spikes, and his other petty aerials. He can stage spike you too. The first thing you'll want to see is what he'll do and his habits. If he likes to shoot gyros/lazers, airdodge it that's if espically your very high offstage. Mix up on aiming for the sweetspot edge with your green missle, and slightly on the stage because he can dair spike you. If they actually go offstage, 50% of the time you'll land a tornado gimp on the way back depending on how reckless or open they are. Rob has slightly the advantage (IMO) when luigi's offstage compared to vice versa.

Now for the onstage stuff. Quick few tidbits. Rob's are known for spotdodging to dsmashs. This however can be avoided. You won't eat the full damage of a dsmash if you DI up (hold the C-stick and control stick up). Here's the vid on DI incase you need help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy...e=channel_page (it's 2:02 for DIing out of the dsmash). I'm pretty sure you can DI out of his upair as well too.
oh and the dsmash is quick as a spotdodge, so you can spotdodge it too.

Once your inside his range. Luigi can take over this matchup. All your regular combos should work and getting him in the air is a no problem. His best GTFO moves are spotdodge+dsmash, Fsmash for the kills, Dtilts for the trips and that's about it. Jab Dthrows, follow DI/bait airdodge works wonders. If he decides to use a aerial, most likely it'll be a Nair which has start up lag so you can shield that. Dair Nair still works wonder just becareful in getting shield grabbed. Spaced bairs work. You must note that Rob's blind spots are from below and slightly behind him. These are spots where luigi highly excels. Upair strings to Nairs rack up damage very quickly. Utilt juggles to around a decent 30%.

Rob has ftilt range, But rob can't do much when luigi's inside him. But when rob spaces he'll ****. Shoryuken's kill rob at 53% no DI, a non angled Fsmash kills rob at 101% no di, up angled fsmash kills at 85%, 123% kills with Nair,reverse upsmash kills at 110%. I'm pretty lazy to find out rob's killing power and options and I can't find rob's frame data to see if luigi's jab and his nair comes out faster than his spotdodge and dsmash but its w/e.

I find this match up around 55:45 in luigi's favor or at best 60:40 for luigi. Rob rules the ground game and slightly offstage, and luigi for his kill options/power (still needs to be finalized between rob and luigi but i think its luigis favor), fast racking up damage game, and air game.
Jab to Nair works only if ROB SDI into Luigi
Jab to Cyclone always hit ROB if it hits on the first hit box of the jab.
Jab to Up b almost always works, but if the jab hits on the 3rd hit box it might not work
Jab to grab is the same as Up b
Jab to Dsmash, Dtilt, and Ftilt work the same way as Up b and Grab.
Video references
Boss v.s Bert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FE-koKH6dM&feature=related

Stages for Luigi
BF
SV

Ban
Frigate
FD
 

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
2,957
Location
New york
Game and Watch Mu info
This is a match where it pays off to play defensively. You need to be more cautious about using fireballs in your approach/projectile, as he can bucket them (G&W's Down-B, the bucket, catches projectiles. After it catches 3 projectiles, it becomes a powerful attack). Instead of using your fireballs as a projectile or a tool in an approach, use it to set up combos. Even if the G&W does bucket it, the Fireball is a surprisingly good set-up attack for combos. Note that when G&W buckets one of your fireballs, he has considerable lag; this is an opportune moment to use Up-b (if he is greater than 45%) This may cause your opponent to be wary of catching fireballs and you could turn some mindgames on him. Additionally, G&W has a number of good options to use against you, whether in the air or on the ground. It is important to play defensively and find openings to attack, as G&W is extremely light and is very susceptible to a FireJumpPunch or an Up-angled F-smash. You may also notice that, unlike other characters, G&W does not seem to be able to block after a quick jab. This can be used to your advantage with a Jab > Up-B combo. Patience is key in this match; look for the ending lag on G&W's moves (especially his ground moves) and then proceed to punish. Be aware of G&W's projectile (chef) as an edguard, they will cancel out your tornado and hurt your recovery. Also note that your aerials come out faster than his, but his D-air and B-air should be avoided. Also take note of G&W's F-Air; not his best move but not to be overlooked either. Spacing your aerials is crucial; don't leave yourself open for punishment because of lag in the air. Luigi can do two aerials in one SH, so you can "fake" the first and land a second. In this case, N-air is very effective, as it will open up a few options for you. Your U-tilt becomes less useful in this match, as it puts him in good position to use his D-air. A more ground-based approach in this match-up might work as many of G&W's ground attacks have very punishable lag. Overall this match is about playing conservatively; stay on the defensive and wait for the opportune time to attack.
Priority and range are not luigi's forte at all. If anything his tornado has the most priority of his attacks. Bair probably has the most range, but not enough priority to pierce gw's attacks.
His main kill moves are probably the fsmash and up b. Beyond that nairs, upsmash/dsmashes, misfires, and maybe bairs will make up the rest of his kills. Mainly you need to watch out for the first two, up b will kill you at 40% on most stages, and the fsmash probably in the 70's.

Luigi probably can't edgeguard you very well. Fireballs work against most characters to pressure them, but those can be bucketed off stage. Nair/Up b will probably be able to take out any aerial attempts.

Luigi can be tricky to edgeguard, your best bet is probably to dair him on his way up, fair attempts off the stage will work to interrupt his side b as well.

Bucket with caution, if at max range, or if your on a platform, you might be able to avoid taking serious damage, but if your too close, the up b will find its way to you. When off the stage, you are likely to only take an aerial for bucketing.
Make sure you up b to get out of his combos, its your best bet. Don't worry about trying to interrupt him with keys, just regroup and start pressuring at range again.
Remember that the dtilt can help if you want to play defensively.
Game and Watch is so-so. You're disadvantages- G&W has insane smash attacks and pretty good aerials.
You're advantages- G&W is very lightweight. So you should be able to KO each other around the same %. G&W might have some great aerials, he doesn't have as much aerial mobility as you, so the trick is is to see things like the bair coming and simply getting out of the way. You can't punish his bair, but in the long run that's okay.
I am a Luigi main and I will like to put in a little bit of input
Luigi's Slide works both ways. It helps him out of combos but makes it harder for him to punish opponents with definite note to game and watch's f-smash and Down Smash.

GaW Strengths
GaW smashes over luigi smash's in terms of priority
Down air has INSANE priority
Up Smash over Luigi Down air
At longer ranges, Luigi can't fireball camp due to Bucket
Better recovery overall than Luigi in terms of abusing it.
Luigi Floatiness + Game and Watch Float Moves (up air, up B) = annoyance.
Better overall Priority.
Up tilt combos don't work well vs lighter chars like game and watch.
If your opponent can't DI out of turtles abuse it.

Luigi Strengths
He is heavier and can escape aerial combos due to floatiness.
Up B Kills ridiculously fast.
Tilted F-Smash kills Game and watch incredibly fast and is an incredibly good shield poke
Back air helps immensely
Game and Watch's Shield is Horrible. Abuse it Well.
Luigi's N-air also kills well and does reasonably well vs all of Game and Watch's aerials.
Better recovery in terms of range
Grab combos don't work well vs Luigi.
DI out of the turtle, PLEASE.

Game and Watch strategies: Abuse your hitboxes. Abuse Game and Watch's priority. Abuse Down air and the extra hitboxes.
Luigi strategies: When you need a Kill, GET IT. Up B combos, Back air, N-Air, and F-Smash are incredibly good at killing. DI out of the turtle.

Game and Watch stages
Anything without a short ceiling. ban Haliberd. For neutrals, ban Yoshi's due to lower ceiling or Lylat. BF is a good stage or any stage with a good high ceiling like FD.

Luigi Stages: ban any stage with a high ceiling. I personally ban FD.
I really couldn't find a lot about this Mu

SDI G&w bair because that moves does a lot of damage. Move the control stick up and down rapidly you should end up behind g&w.
Jab1 to up b is guaranteed on the first hitbox.
Jab to dmash, dtilt, and Ftilt always work.
You actually can counter G&w's dair with a well spaced bair after he does it and use up tilt as a quick kill move or at least a "get out of my face" move

video references (none)

Stages

Ban
 

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
2,957
Location
New york
Ike Mu info
Use Fireballs, everytime, until he is forced to approach you.
Luigi's main strategy should be "wait and punish." Many of Ike's moves have considerable ending lag and are highly susceptible to punishment. Although Ike greatly outranges you with his sword, you never have to approach him; keep pressure on with fireballs until he approaches you, then launch your attack on his ending lag. If your opponent refuses to approach you can do an empty SH and Double jump backwards avoiding any attack, and then punish the lag. Note that in this match-up, spamming fireballs is of great use, as Ike has no way to counter it. His F-smash, though deadly if it connects (can kill you at 40%, but can be survived up to 60% if DI'ed properly) has a large amount of ending lag, leaving him open to a Fire Jump Punch, which kills Ike at 60%. Because Ike is heavy, he is easily juggled and combo'ed into higher percents. It is also fairly easy to edgeguard Ike's recovery; push him offstage with B-airs. To gimp his Foward-B recovery all you have to do is be in front of him and airdodge at the right time; he will strike out at you, miss, and fall short of the edge. Ike's jab combo is vital for him in this match (because of Luigi's fireballs), but it forces him into a very predictable pattern. Note that Ike's jab has higher priority than a fireball or a tornado, but clanks with U-tilt. Overall, this match is about being patient and playing intelligently. Spam fireballs, gimp his recovery, and punish punish punish!
The main problem is landing a KO move on Ike because it's fairly unsafe to completely miss him due to his long range and high KO power on other moves, and his Jab combo does outspeed your KO moves.
Recovering from below is BEGGING for a D-Tilt spike, and if you're sloppy, Ike can D-Air spike you.
Fireballs are used to annoy an Ike who keeps waiting for you to rush into his moves. But if you fireball carelessly you do make yourself an easy target(in contrast to spamming aerials carelessly, you don't actually give a lot of openings), so you need to use them sparingly. They aren't an all-dominating projectile to be used aggressively. Luigi is as fast as hell in his attacks, but he doesn't have high mobility outside of the tornado.
Not a lot of info on ike but I'll try to sum it all up.

-Fireballs can be used to force Ike to approach, but it will only help you punish moves.
-You can combo ike, but be careful since some of the ike's that I have played manage to squeeze out a nair and or a strong move. Also Ike will use counter stop any more combos.
- Always stay alert when playing ike because one wrong move and fsmash or Upsmash will take one of your stocks.
- mix up recovery options since Ike can stop Luigi from sweet spotting the edge with Fair.
- Not a lot of our jab follow ups work on Ike. Most of them are only possible if Ike SDI into us. We can Jab to Cyclone, Up b, Dsmash, dtilt, and Ftilt.
- Because of Ike's weight we have a short Fthrow CG till 20%, but you can mix it up since two grabs will get Ike to 20%. You can consider the 2nd grab as a free grab to do a combo of your choosing.

Video Reference
No legit Luigi v.s Ike has been uploaded.

Stages
BF

Ban
FD
 

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
2,957
Location
New york
Toon link info
Toon Link has the spamy arrows, bombs, and the boomerang. Don't underestimate his projectiles espically the boomerang, as it can go pretty far distance. The projectiles may tick you off but try to keep your cool.
The reason I say the projectiles are only a minor hassle is because all of Luigi's aerials can cancel or catch all of Toon Link's projectiles(and catching a bomb with a fair is faster than an airdodge too), and he can't spam projectiles faster than Luigi can attack nor does it put Luigi in a bad position. In addition, an aerial tornado will eat boomerangs and arrows and on the ground will clank with everything else Toon Link has except bombs. This means a shorthop aerial can cancel one projectile while giving you flexible spacing and no punishable lag, a falling aerial tornado can cancel out a second projectile and Luigi can tornado towards the opponent where at best the third attack or projectile will clank.

In addition, the aerial tornado's priority over Link's projectiles counters the effect of projectiles aiming at Luigi while off the stage. When you're off the stage Link's projectiles are a problem because they will interrupt your attempts to green missile for distance, you'll lose height quickly and fall to your death. However instead of come in low with the green missile and using the second jump, tornado and up-B to rise back up to the stage, a second jump to a rising tornado both gives you defense against projectiles and lifts you out of his projectile zone so you can fall and charge a green missile to sweet spot the ledge or come over the stage.

Toon Link is one of the few characters that can potentially successfully ledge hog a green missile sweetspot through his tether recovery invincibility, and that means you need to be prepared to up-B after the green missile, or sometimes it means you can end up underneath the lip of the stage on the green missile lag. These last two points- link's tether edge hogging and projectiles gimping your recovery.

Toon Link's aerials aren't so much as better than Luigi's Aerials as they are equal. Both Luigi and Toon Link have fantastic aerials. For the most part, Toon Link's Aerials aren't as fast as Luigi's because they have more after-lag, his bair being the exception. But in the Air Toon link out ranges Luigi with some of his aerials.
Boomerang and Arrow clash with Luigi's tornado. Don't pull out a bomb near Luigi or you'll be punished pretty hard, pull it out when away.
Also, Luigi kills us at 73% with F-smash angled up.
Reverse Aerial rush Bair is a good way to approach. Use the tornado or just hit and run with tornado to stop Toon link's camping.
obviously any flat stage TL excels on and anything with platforms helps luigi with some combo game.

Best Stage to fight Luigi on:



Worst Stage to fight Luigi on:



Luigi has very good aerials. His upair is a very deadly juggling tool, his nair is a frame 3 gtfo move with a lot of priority, his fair has almost no cooldown lag, his back air has a lot of range and his dair is also very good and can spike.

Toon Link must play very careful and not use any lag inducing moves even less than in other matchups. Never ever try to grab in this matchup as it will lead to an early upB kill for Luigi if you happen to miss. The risk outweighs the reward, even if you are sure that you will grab him do not do it and go for something else.
Our projectiles give him a lot of trouble when he is trying to approach. Luigi will often try to get past your projectiles with his downb (tornado) because it travels fast and cancels arrows. Just throw a bomb at him if he's doing that or zair him out of it, you can also shield it and nair OoS. He might also approach with short hopped fireballs.
What gives Luigi a lot of trouble in the matchup is getting past our projectile brickwall (mainly angled up boomerang for aerial approaches and bombs/arrows/forward rang/zair for ground approaching) without eating a lot of damage in the process
Ban stages with platforms like battlefield/Halberd as it aids Luigi in his combo/juggling game. Counterpick flat stages with a lot of space to keep our camping game going like Final Destination and Delfino Plaza. If you get hit by his jab at 50 to 60 percent, make sure to DI it down or away.

Jab to Nair works on TL only if he SDI's into you. Very helpful at high percents.
Jab to Down B works on TL only if he SDI's into you.
jab to Shoruyken always works on the first hit box of jab. If any other hit box hits it will only work if TL SDI's into you.
Jab to Dsmash, Dtilt, and Ftilt always works on both Hit box 1 and 2. Hit box 3 needs SDI to work

Video references
Boss v.s Jash MM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy2Reu2S44c&list=FLjB5ITZthAFo-7YOBg-43yQ&index=50&feature=plpp

Yoshq v.s Near
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQCVC9-AKhU

Samboner v.s Amari
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq0NBIfmPtc&list=FLjB5ITZthAFo-7YOBg-43yQ&index=8&feature=plpp

Stages
BF
Yoshi's Island(brawl)

Ban
FD
Delfino
Castle siege
 

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
2,957
Location
New york
Fox mu info (wow no one really discussed this)
Stage Striking: Battlefield, Yoshi's Island(brawl)

Stage Banning: Brinstar

Stage CP'ing: FD, PS1,

Luigi:

Jab Frame 2
AAA Frames 2, 3, 5

U-tilt Frame 5
D-tilt Frame 5

Nair Frame 3
Fair Frame 7
Dair Frame 10
Bair Frame 6
Uair Frame 5

Fsmash Frame 12
Dsmash Frame 5 *Front* Frame 14 *Back*
Usmash Frame 9

Up-B Frame 6

Approach/Ground Game/Killing: Your approach to luigi is to camp, Don't hit him with dash attack below 40%, it will result in you getting Nair'd before you shield and/or U-tilt. You can have a jab battle with him but be careful,he jabs just as fast as you do and his jab has slightly more hitstun. Dthrow him early to rack up massive damage. Lasers lasers lasers, again this opens him up alot and must be abused in this match-up. Shield grabbing luigi is highly reccommended as well. JJC'ing is a problem too because he can't hit you back before you start another JJC so if you connect with the first one shine afterwards(JJCS). Once you hit him with that he'll get sent flying and now you can start you laser game all over again.U-smash is your answer, and since luigi has these wacky physics to him using Dair to trip him into U-smash is easier than normal.

Laser Technique: SHDL

Summary: Play the camp game, Dance around him to open holes, NO JJC'ing instead use JJCS. Grab ALOT, U-smash is you kill answer.

Defense: Your defense is your approach technically. seriously don't be afraid to just run away. Your too fast and luigi can't catch up Defensive moves like F-tilt are great, as soon as your in F-tilt range just hit him with it and he'll get sent flying. It's a great spacing tool so use it.

Aerial Game: In a aerial confrontation Fox leaves the ground faster than luigi does. Hitting luigi with fair is awesome and there is not much luigi can do about it. Multi hit moves hurt him a lot, spacing Uair underneth luigi is great, and it may even get you a KO. Both of your Bair's look like they have the same range but here's the catch since luigi has crazy aerial manuverability his bair's are edge guarding tools as to your bair is a KO shot. Stay away from his Uair and Fair they both are crazy combo tools. All in all you don't have to meet him in the air if you don't want to. Just run underneth him or SHDL everytime he is in the air.

Edge Game: You can't play the edge game against luigi it's that simple. You can time his options of recoveries that he has though and find a way to shine him to death. His edge game is crazy and he has several options edge guarding you if you recover wrong. Just get back onto the stage as fast as you can because luigi can make quick work with wrong decisions on the ledge.
I actually got to play Nakat so most of the info here is right. Luigi's best way to counter Fox's short hop laser is to punish him before he lands with down b. Then from there we have to stay inside pounding on fox.

None of our Jab combos work on Fox because he falls to fast but don't be afraid to pull them out since your opponent might not shield it. Jab cancel to Jab still works. Also because of Fox's weight we can fthrow chaingrab him to 20%. Lastly Fox has RCO lag so if he does side b onto the stage or grabs the edge with Up b or side b be ready to up b his landing lag.

video reference
Iblis v.s Biglou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viTbdWVxHrM&list=FLjB5ITZthAFo-7YOBg-43yQ&index=12&feature=plpp

Stages
BF

Bans
FD
 

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
2,957
Location
New york
Wolf mu info (BAIR)

his blaster beats everything we have, so our only approach options are shielding/dodging or a short hopping aerial approach, both of which are somewhat predictable.
Luigi's up b kils around 60%
Luigis :

Floaty, overall better air game, craptard ground game compared to wolf's, combos, slightly safer recovery.

Wolfs:

Superior ground game, better defensive options, ***** hard with range.
At most, luigi's problems is mostly wolf's ground game and specifcally, ftilt, fsmash, blaster. At times, wolf's shine can break some combos out of luigi's. The problem is that if you are going to follow up a combo after you've landed a shine, luigi's traction screws himself over and slides too far.
There is like no info on this mu at all so I'll add some more info. I've only played two wolf mains pane and Seagullman.

Wolf can really put up a wall on us with his lasers, but Luigi can approach by powershielding or at least shielding the lasers. Mix in some jumping with the shielding and bair, fireball, dair, or down b to attack wolf. OOS options work too as you approach wolf. Be cautious though because Wolf will see that you're approaching and he'll attack you with a Bair or Fair. Don't ever try to approach with down b because Wolf can just shine it. Also try to keep your cool in this match up because most of the time when you start comboing wolf he'll just shine it breaking the combo.

jab to grab really helps in this match up for combos because even though none of our jab to(dsmash, up b, or etc) work we can still do this since it won't be blocked. Just don't be surprised if wolf pulls a shine in the middle of the combo. Just like fox and other heavy characters we have a short fthrow cg on Wolf up till 20%. Also do jab to ftilt. It may and may not work, but it creates space between you both when it does work.

This is where it gets tough to stay inside. Once you're inside rack up some damage with up tilt juggling and finish with Upsmash then get out before Wolf shines you. Bair can be a major problem when wolf isn't shooting lasers since a good wolf will space it right and it will hit you all of the time. The only way Luigi can counter the bairs is to either predict it, jump away, and counter with an aerial of your own or Powershield it to grab. Fireball can be used against wolf, but only as a fake to get him to shield or reflect the fireball. Wolf sometimes fsmashes or dsmashes after a bair landing so be careful of that.

Once wolf is around 60% look for the up b. NO not jab to up b it won't work because wolf will either shine or shield it. I would recommend air dodge into up b or dodge to up b. But if you have foresight like boss you could up b wolf during his roll. Also fsmash kills wolf around 90% and upsmash kills wolf around 110%.

At edge: When you're sent off stage use Luigi's missile to move towards the stage and if you can sweet spot the stage, but chances are wolf will shoot lasers to interrupt your recovery and wolf can stop Luigi's side b with bair. Rising cyclone isn't a bad choice to recover, but rise gently and not too much otherwise you'll eat a dsmash from wolf(Seagull got me with this and I was O_O never knew wolf could do that). Up b works to just be careful of RCO and try get back on the stage safely. Get rid of the RCO with a landing nair or a short hop since its much more safer than a hard landing with 30 frames. This is just asking wolf to kill you. At high percents(100%) don't be afraid to get up attack since this move has range and is like a "Give me some space" move.

Wolf is at the edge: There are three things you can do
1. Stay near the edge and wait for wolf to get back on the stage and attack him with a nair or dair. Doesn't matter if the nair is lagged you get some damage.
2. shoot fireballs, but don't stand to close to the edge or wolf with come back on the stage reflecting the fireballs into your face.
3. When wolf is coming towards the stage use luigi Cyclone to mess up his recovery. If you don't know how to do this look at Samboner v.s Amari.
Lastly as wolf gets back on the stage if he used up b or side b to grab the edge. He will have some RCO lag on him so try to watch where Wolf lands and fsmash him or up b him.

Video references
Boss v.s Kain 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taRSEKYJa60&feature=related
Boss v.s Kain 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2aqT8pr9jU&list=FLjB5ITZthAFo-7YOBg-43yQ&index=6&feature=plpp

Stages
BF

Ban
FD
 

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
2,957
Location
New york
Felt like quoting this lol

Is bair really that good against us?
yes it is. Its like not even funny either. He also said that Bair poops on Luigi.
What is more interesting is that in the video of Kain v.s Boss Kain never uses bair on him, but the current wolf mains spam it a lot. lol
 

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
2,957
Location
New york
DK Mu info
Things to watch out for-

-Double aerials
-Fireballs (better than you think)
-Nair break
- Jab cancels
-SHORYUKEN!!!!!!!!!
Luigi can basically keep connecting moves until you are around 50% and then he's going to go for more grab combos.up tilt will be his main juggle move then he'll take to the air and hit you with a couple up aerials. You'll want to spam bair all day long. luigi can't punish bair because of how far he slides and if he unshields to tornado you can f tilt before he reaches you or you can bair again. just spam bair.

Killing power for luigi is sooooo good it's not even funny. up angled Fsmash and Shoryuken can kill DK before he even reaches 80%. what's even worse is that jab cancels lead up to these moves and luigi gets us to that % really fast with his combos. sometimes luigis will bait a grab by attacking your shield with one aerial and then backing off so they can F-smash you. you should not have to worry about this because DK can actually punish luigi's shield pressure. as soon as he hits your shield with an attack you should shield drop to a aerial.
DK outranges Luigi on the ground, take the fight into the air. At least from there you don't have to deal with a Headbutt+Pitfalled => FSmash/Giant Punch Combo. Some of DK's Aerials, like his BAir, NAir and UAir are as fast as yours, so try to get him in front.

Recovery is where it get s a little hairy. Always try to stay above DK, that means even the side somewhat hinders you. Your BAir < His BAir because it outranges you (I think, otherwise they're equal) and recovering from below literally asks you to be DAir Spiked.
DK has some decent range on the ground and has some big hitboxs espically for his smashs. Take it to the air by starting off with a tornado or Dthrow. juggle him with u-tilts, then combo him with aerials Fair,Nair,Dair, Bair. Throw fireballs at DK so you can pressure him and he'll be forced to approach you.
Learn to tech off the stage when he does the cargo throw, I'm pretty sure every good DK main does that. The one I play against does, but I've learned how to tech the stage so I don't get spiked and die. Luigi can recover anywhere if he techs the stage, even on the bottom.
Just to add more info to this. Watch out for the Charge punch because DK players like Will just use it to counter your moves since a fully charged punch has super armor. Also DK has awesome DI so try to kill with Up b, fsmash, or upsmash.
Jab combos that Need SDI
Jab to Nair
Jab to Cyclone
Jab to Shoruyken

Jab combos that don't need SDI
Jab to Dsmash, Ftilt, Dtilt. (has to be hitbox 1 to work)

Video references
Boss v.s Will pound V
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQhjTFf6pKI&list=FLjB5ITZthAFo-7YOBg-43yQ&index=46&feature=plpp

Boss v.s Will 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ehvsSwpGB8&feature=related
Boss v.s Will 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kL73J-f6to&feature=related
Boss v.s Will 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITZP9j3h1lo&feature=related

Stages
BF

Ban
Delfino
Yoshi's island (brawl)
 

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
2,957
Location
New york
Kirby Mu info

Kirby has a great aerial game almost relatively equal to Luigi's and has a great ground game as well. Throwing a shorthop fireballs and some grounded fireballs can pressure Kirby and forcing him to approach you. Also a SH fireball to a tornado is a great racking up damage as well as utilts.
You must approach carefully when their near the edge because they can inhale you, drop down and spit you out underthe stage where you can't possibly recover or they'll just suicide.

Also Kirby's pretty lightweight and Luigi has alot of killing power against Kirby espically with his shoryuken. It kills Kirby around 41% so that's pretty early. Watch out for Kirby's Fsmash and hammar as they can kill and have decent range
Approaching him: Might as well use the Fireball/Tornado Approach

Kirby is an aerial monster much like Luigi, his FAir can't be Air Dodged for the whole duration and his BAir is much like your BAir, except your BAir slightly outranges Kirby to a small amount. Use it.

Don't stay on the ground too much. Kirby's FSmash lunges forward and has a deceptive hitbox. DThrow into FAir/BAir=>UAir. Keep him above or behind you. The occasional NAir will screw up momentum for Kirby.

DO NOT LET HIM COPY YOUR ABILITY; Heck, don't even let him inhale you. He's a lot better at spamming your Fireballs. Dodge Final Cutter and the projectile if necessary and Punish with a FIRE PUNCH (If you're close enough!) Or a grab or an FSmash.

Don't even try to edgeguard him. If you're gonna try, try a DAir Spike; you might get lucky and KO him off the side instead.

Kirby’s Pros and Cons:

+ Great gimper.
+ Solid defensive options
+ Strong kill moves

- Light = lower % kills
- Lack of useful projectile


Luigi's Pros and Cons:

+ Lightness helps avoid chaingrabs
+ Spammable projectile
+ Useful repertoire of moves

- Crappy recovery
- Predictable approach
- One/Two kill options
- Lightness = early kills as well


Watch out for:
Angled Up FSmash – It's his kill move, incredibly predictable but fast and deadly. Once you reach that 80% range, make sure to limit aerial approaches to insure a longer life.

NAir – Out of inhale, or even as an approach; it's fast and combos into itself easily. Kirby's Ftilt is useful to counter this attack.

Luigi Cyclone. It helps Luigi in recovery and as an approach, and has a surprisingly long duration. Kirby AAA jab combo beats/ clashes.

Fireballs – Don't eat damage unnecessarily.

UpB – Shoyruken!! Get *****. Or once you get to 80% avoid the aerial approach when possible.


How to win:
Gimp. – Do it. Luigi gets beat by Dair spike, or rock, or hammer. Use Dair spike though to avoid any chance of possible recovery.

Grab and jab – Grabs is a easy way to rack damage especially with a pummel thrown in for lulz. Dont bother chaingrabbing as Nair comes out extremely fast and with Luigi's general lightness you won't get the second grab.
Spit out or Swallow?
It's your choice. Spit for the added damage or gimp set-up off stage, or swallow and have an effective approach/ defensive option. Watch out for the Nair that follows a copy of Luigi's power.


YI – Easy killing as far as gimping goes. The small indent helps to avoid fireballs while the platform gives you a way to approach without eating too much damage.
FD – Flat and open is never fun. It's not really bad though since it limits Luigi's approach as much as it hinders Kirby's.
[/INDENT]


all kirby has to do is bair.....and luigi cant do anything....GG
The hard part about dealing with Luigi is that we have to stop our habits of running up to the opponent and continuing our strings, since your nair either clashes with us or beats us while we're starting up attacks due to how fast it is. We have to hit you guys at small intervals, so that you don't nair and hit us but we still hit you.
Jab combos that need SDI
Jab to Nair
Jab to Cyclone
Jab to up b

These jabs sometimes work and sometimes don't.
Kirby's and Jigglypuff's landing animations have them squish down and will duck under some things. All 4 frames of their landing they are low like this, so if an attack would normally hit during this time and doesn't reach low enough it will miss.

Jab combos that always work
Jab to Dsmash, Ftilt, and Dtilt


Video reference
Biglou v.s Y.B.M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMG3Bc4I35M&list=FLjB5ITZthAFo-7YOBg-43yQ&index=18&feature=plpp

Boss v.s Chudat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzjff...2&feature=plpp
Boss v.s Chudat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzyrUllVc0I

Stages

Ban
Yoshi's island(brawl)
 

holyv

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
454
Location
Brazil
Disvantage to wario...
Nice, cuz cyclone get past tiers and grab release angled fsmash is pretty hittable >.<
 

yoshq

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
3,390
Location
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
to grab release him you need to get him while off the edge, he doesn't gr normally with luigi. upsmash and utilt fsmash randomly thrown out in this mu do quite **** though.
 

Luigisama

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
2,957
Location
New york
Sonic Mu info

you really gotta abuse the high priority/long ranged moves here. When you catch luigi hanging on the ledge almost everything he does is punishable since his get up attack is seriously bad you can just sit outside his range, as soon as invincibility wears off begin the b-air spam and drop a spring on his head or usmash him if he wont get up. Fireball spam is annoying but extremely punishable. Dthrow like crazy, it sends luigi across entire stages and if you grab him at the edge, pummel-release for an easy b-air stage spike.
Play a grounded game and abuse your Uair. That is the only move that can reasonably beat out Luigi's in terms of priority. Bair might work in a few instances but overall, just stay to the ground. once he starts chucking fireballs, you've limited him and you can approach safely. Just beware the Utilt traps and his Dsmashes.
Sonic's ground game, the aerial just won't cut. Luigi will stay in air, but he can't stay there forever. Block aerials, shieldgrab if possible. F-smash should be saved for kills.
Oh God sonic

I've been trying this vs. Brawlman, this isn't a fun MU. Maybe not bad, but not fun.

Here's what I think: It's even for the most part. Luigi wins in the strength, range, and priority department in most areas, but He loses TERRIBLY in the mobility department. Sonic will be controlling the pace of this match, whether you like it or not. And if he gets a lead....good luck catching him if he wants to time you out.

Luigi will outbox sonic at close range every time. Anytime something clashes, just mash out a jab. At mid range, you will have to watch out for Fsmash, because it will blow through pretty much any attack that's not a smash.

Being in the air is a double edged sword here. Luigi does win in priority, attack speed, and strength with aerials, but Sonic outspeeds him to a significant degree mobility wise. Put it this way: If Sonic charges you head on in the air, he'll get beat out by your faster aerials. If he chases your landings and spaces his aerials correctly, you will be getting juggled a bit, and there's not much you can do about it.

Also, Sonic can land camp Luigi so hard. Since Luigi is so slow in the air and Sonic is the fastest on the ground, He can almost always have an Fsmash ready for you when you land, and you can't really beat it...And that's not even mentioning the mixup potential from his Side B shield cancels, to ASC shield cancels, etc.

The only thing that keeps Luigi from falling behind in this MU is his sheer strength. Aside from a really well placed Spindash combo, Sonic will probably be getting 15% on you for each mistake, and Luigi can match that, and kill much faster. A two hit combo from Luigi's aerials and smashes will equalize three and sometimes four of sonics hit, but you won't be getting much aside from that since he can spring. Getting inside on Sonic is difficult, but it does pay off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax5qPubde5o <- demonstrates my thoughts exactly. We have strength, but Sonic is just that much faster. Even at best for luigi imo.

Also, Sonic will KO you. His hits rack up so fast, and then we have the landing problems like I mentioned early. It's not that difficult for Sonic to catch you and just beat whatever you're doing with an Fsmash.
not a lot of info on this mu. I have never played a pro sonic(should have played one of the sonics at Ktar6) But all I can say for now is this.
Spring gimps can work on Luigi
If it is a really good sonic prepare for a long match so be patient.

Jab combos that need SDI
Jab to Cyclone works only on the first hitbox of the jab
Jab to up b, turn around up tilt, grab
Jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt

Video references
Boss v.s Speed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-3iSUtQyfo&list=FLjB5ITZthAFo-7YOBg-43yQ&index=6&feature=plpp

Stages
BF

Ban
FD
 

holyv

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
454
Location
Brazil
Can't believe someone that is fast as sonic gets huge stun from luig after the jab
Sonic can't ko us.
He abuse his side b, try down smash into that.
 
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