☆ Official Luigi Match-Up Thread! ☆

[Luigisama]

Can't believe someone that is fast as sonic gets huge stun from luig after the jab
Sonic can't ko us.
He abuse his side b, try down smash into that.

the stun is more in the middle since none of Luigi's jab combos are guaranteed.

 

[BSP]

Oh God sonic

I've been trying this vs. Brawlman, this isn't a fun MU. Maybe not bad, but not fun.

Here's what I think: It's even for the most part. Luigi wins in the strength, range, and priority department in most areas, but He loses TERRIBLY in the mobility department. Sonic will be controlling the pace of this match, whether you like it or not. And if he gets a lead....good luck catching him if he wants to time you out.

Luigi will outbox sonic at close range every time. Anytime something clashes, just mash out a jab. At mid range, you will have to watch out for Fsmash, because it will blow through pretty much any attack that's not a smash.

Being in the air is a double edged sword here. Luigi does win in priority, attack speed, and strength with aerials, but Sonic outspeeds him to a significant degree mobility wise. Put it this way: If Sonic charges you head on in the air, he'll get beat out by your faster aerials. If he chases your landings and spaces his aerials correctly, you will be getting juggled a bit, and there's not much you can do about it.

Also, Sonic can land camp Luigi so hard. Since Luigi is so slow in the air and Sonic is the fastest on the ground, He can almost always have an Fsmash ready for you when you land, and you can't really beat it...And that's not even mentioning the mixup potential from his Side B shield cancels, to ASC shield cancels, etc.

The only thing that keeps Luigi from falling behind in this MU is his sheer strength. Aside from a really well placed Spindash combo, Sonic will probably be getting 15% on you for each mistake, and Luigi can match that, and kill much faster. A two hit combo from Luigi's aerials and smashes will equalize three and sometimes four of sonics hit, but you won't be getting much aside from that since he can spring. Getting inside on Sonic is difficult, but it does pay off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax5qPubde5o <- demonstrates my thoughts exactly. We have strength, but Sonic is just that much faster. Even at best for luigi imo.

Also, Sonic will KO you. His hits rack up so fast, and then we have the landing problems like I mentioned early. It's not that difficult for Sonic to catch you and just beat whatever you're doing with an Fsmash.

 

[holyv]

It's not that difficult for Sonic to catch you and just beat whatever you're doing with an Fsmash.

Idk we don't have laggy moves, and we wouldn't do it to the air...

 

[yoshq]

updated .

 

[Luigisama]

sheik mu info

Luigi can NOT kill you with his jab > up B if you react in time. Sheik is able to shield or jab in time before Luigi can hit with the up B.

Forward smash is devastating. Especially if he tilts it up, which can kill you at around 70% I believe. Maybe even earlier.

luigi has some pretty gigantic priority and some projectiles and some completely absurd kill moves while your kill moves wont be able to kill him until way later I would say luigi has a pretty solid advantage on sheik. To win this match exploit luigis recovery by using shieks excellent gimping tools, another thing to watch out for is luigis Fsmash cant really be punished and he can even cover it with Dsmash if u try to roll behind him.

The only thing's that let luigi break the jab/tilt combos early are nair/upB. The thing about nair though, is that as sheik you can avoid it in the middle of a f-tilt combo by making sure to never try to follow after luigi is knocked too far. Only go for the tilt combo's like 0-60 or so. Also the luigi nair is very easy to bait by either throwing out a tilt and then buffering a shield or to start rapid jabs and also buffer a power shield. It works pretty much every time for me.

DownB can be shielded easily and punished afterwards if they finish near you. Also his fireball's hit boxes are kind of disjointed and can be difficult to powershield if you don't know the timing exactly.

Otherwise luigi is decently easy to gimp using sheik's aerials, also very safe to approach against with nair. If luigi starts doing retreating bair's to nair's approach from below and nair, if he plays the ground, avoid any fireballs and nair from above. I believe sheik's nair out prioritizes luigi's ground options other than F-smash/Charged u-smash. Also if luigi doesn't approach, needles stop everything except fireballs, that includes lugi's downB.

Bottom line, luigi has some very fast early killing high priority moves, but has little range, and almost no run speed. So it comes down to how good the sheik is at baiting and how good the luigi player is at getting close.

Any sheik experienced in jab/tilt combo's if you just experiment a little bit, you will discover which ones you can buffer properly to land on luigi. The important thing is to never chase directly into him after a tilt after like 60% because it will be an easy nair, though again this is easy to bait.

Spaced bair beats everything luigi has in the air.

bair space her, she doesnt have anything to stop it really. nair breaks her tilt combos, easy air combos, and super light so smashes kill early

This is a pretty even match up, but not a lot of info on it.
No jab combos work on Sheik.

Video references
Biglou v.s reflex
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdPs5fDiyDw&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLC9AB675617A8B16E

Stage
BF
SV

Ban
FD

 

[Luigisama]

Ganondorf mu info

Both of us are solid killers, Luigi can N-air ganon out of virtually everything. Main thing to say is that Luigi's priority overwhelms. Just be really careful of the pesky down air and up air. Don't down b too often as your asking for a down air.

Luigi's camping also doesn't really threaten Ganon a whole ton because he'll be able to powershield it most of the time, and Jab -> Up-B is blockable.

Ganondorf's best neutral: Final Destination. Luigi can probably do some nasty stuff on platforms, so it's best to have Ganon in a long stage so that he can avoid Luigi's comboes easier. If you ban FD, Ganon would probably like Smashville as an alternative option.

Luigi's best neutral: Yoshi's Island. I hate this stage with a passion as Ganondorf, especially if it's against a character with as good of a CQC game as Luigi. Luigi can just pressure him and **** him all day long, Ganondorf doesn't have the room to do anything. I, in particular, almost always ban Yoshi's Island, so your next best neutral is Lylat (if it's a neutral).

Counterpicks: Nothing particular comes to mind, just keep note that Ganondorf wants long stages so he doesn't get zoned as easy, and Luigi wants stages with small areas so that he can trap Ganondorf into huge amounts of damage/death.

Possible side b follow ups:

1.) side b > Down Tilt
2.) side b > Forward Tilt
3.) side b> Jab (If he try's to do anything but roll behind you)
4.) side b > Dash Attack
Luigi's range is almost close to Mario's, a bit more. His KO power's higher then Mario's though. Be out of his range, we out range most of his attacks. Stay around Mid-range, use D-tilts for quick pokes.
If Luigi tries to approach from the air, I expect Ftilt and Uair can take him out, but odds are they won't approach that way.
the tornado can be countered with Dtilts

Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to up b on the first hit box
jab to dsmash, ftilt, dtilt

Video references
Boss v.s Clai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PsRSiNHK28&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL5BEE952EC26D96E4

YoshQ v.s DLA 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN7ZK3SaPQE&feature=BFa&list=PL5BEE952EC26D96E4&lf=results_video

Yoshq v.s DLA 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsf9Id_aRZY&feature=BFa&list=PL5BEE952EC26D96E4&lf=results_video

Yoshq v.s DLA 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooiJxO_PMH4&feature=BFa&list=PL5BEE952EC26D96E4&lf=results_video

Stages
BF
YI

Ban
FD

 

[Luigisama]

Mario Mu info

~Approach~
Mario is one tough cookie to approach. Anything you can do, he can do better, he can do anything better than you~!
- Fireball Approaches are a big no-no. His Fireball > Yours and Cape just doesn't help.
- Fireballs cancel out your tornado. By the time you're done colliding with every fireball he throws at you you're in the perfect position for a combo start.
- Aerial Approaches probably have a better stand against Mario. The classic DAir => NAir helps.

~Patterns And Moves~
Mario has a very wide arsenal of moves to retaliate.
- All Smashes: They all outrange you slightly to outright looong. A Stutter Stepped FSmash has quite the range. DSmash and USmash outrange your own by a smidegen.
- UAirs from Marios usually will lead to an FSmash onstage or an FAir Offstage. Be wary of those chains; break em with NAir!
- Marios have Jab => Move combos like us, so be wary! Jab => Grab and Jab => DSmash can be hard to predict, but don't forget you can do it too!
- BAirs are just as deadly combo wise. Except to see a good Mario use this as much as you should use YOURS <_<
- Super Jump Punch (Mario's) is much like Dolphin Slash (Marth) as it has invincibility frames, can be done OOS quite effectively and it's unexpectiedness in a battle.

~Style Adjustment~
Battling against the man in red requires some momentum. It's more evident in this matchup than other ones.
- Offensive: Don't be afraid to take the offensive when you have the upper hand. Get in his face, and be smart about it. Your Fireball may not be as good as his, but it's not USELESS. Use it, just not a obviously as you would though.
- Defensive: If you start to feel the pressure, start mixing in some FTilts to get some breathing room and think about your next move.
The key is being dynamic in style, adjust according to the Mario's agressiveness and tactics.

~Ground Game~
- As said before, Mario's Smashes > Yours. Both of you can be deadly when you're up close, but you have the upper hand in that case. Jab to Grab => DThrow into FAirs/BAirs will work wonders! Whatever the Mario does to you, you can do back to him, but stronger!
- UTilt juggling will rack up damage a tad faster. If you're stuck in Mario's UTilt though, SDI outta it pronto!
- Play normally, but a bit more defensive the clsoer you are to the edge. The farther away you're from the edge, the better.

~Air Game~
- Battle of the combo kings! Apply your own UAir/DAir/FAir/BAir combos. Remember though; Mario's Tornado has quite the priority, But Luigi's NAir will rival that. Use the Tornado Infinite Jump (It DOES have a purpose, you know!) to stay in the air and keep Mario on his toes...in the air...yeah, perfect sense.
- Fight a Mario in the Air much like a Luigi. Better mindgames and better spacing will win you the fight.
- Be wary of the FAir Paounch. Other than the spike, it can send you horizontially pretty far... And you thought Dr. Mario was dead.

~Edgeguarding~
- Face it, Mario can edggaurd you better, and he has ANTI Edguarding strats too. Be smart about Fireball Spam and the like. He can throw his own fireballs back at you, and suddenly turn the tables!
- Tornado, Tornado, Tornado.
- Super Jump Punch can be thrown at you almost any time to stop your attempts!
- When YOU'RE being edgeguard, be wary of Green Missiling, as the FLUDD will stop you form moving forward and the Cape will send you off to your doom. Tornado at the right time.

~Killing Options~
- Luigi is much better at killing than Mario. That, and a lot of his great kills are vertical, so you don't need to worry about edgeguarding!
- Fire Punch is punishable with Cape if a Mario is smart to see it coming. Take caution.
- Up Tilted FSmash is wonderful here, however. Very awesome.
- NAir, BAir chains and the like also work wonders.

I've said it a million times. vs Luigi is even.

Mario has an edge camping, and to a lesser extent edgeguarding, while Luigi has an edge KOing ridiculously early if he can land one of his short ranged KO moves, and then some of his combos do slightly more damage.

Luigi's N-air is very manageable if you know what to expect. Just U-tilt whenever he's above you. It will always beat his N-air or D-air. And I do in fact mean it when I say "always".

The hardest thing to deal with in this matchup is just Tornado, since he will generally use it to punish your ending lag on stuff. Fireballs can stop it in its tracks, and if you predict it, F-smash can beat it.

Mentioning F-smash, Mario's F-smash is so ridiculously good in this matchup, it very much makes up for Luigi's crazy KO power by being a solid counter to a lot of his moveset and physics. F-smash is safe on block in this matchup, and it outranges Luigi's entire movepool. This allows you to consistently mindgame the **** out of him for some clutch KOs in this matchup. If Mario's F-smash KOed just a little earlier, this matchup would swing to Mario's favor. It's that good in this matchup.

In short, both combo the heck out of each other, and while Luigi may have some dirty tricks up his sleeve, Mario can F-smash him in the nuts to put him back in his place.

Fireballs destroy Luigi's ForawrdB recovery...It's the same thing as hitting a brick wall.

Jab combos that need SDI
Jab to Nair
jab to Cyclone
Jab to Shoruyken

Jab combos that always work
Jab to Dsmash, Ftilt, and Dtilt

Video references

Stages
BF

Ban
FD
Brinstar

 

[Luigisama]

Link Mu info

55:45 luigi on platforms

5/5 flat stages give or take

luigi ps everything, link should go aggro camping with alot of zair spacing

once luigi stays inside, he'll stay for a while, link's spaced jab and his frame 5 dsmash is the general distance he wants
link's options when knocked off stage is reduced greatly

- Ducking Link's z-air gives you a little more time to react to it.
-This rarely happens, but Link's boomerang + Weegee's traction= a faster approach if done correctly.
-spaced back-airs tend to beat out most of his aerials.

Luigi's best tools for gimping is back air. Link's f-smash and z-air are a pain to get bye. This is one of the few matchups I struggle to kill, mostly due to Link's wtf good momentum cancels. Luigi want's a down throw or an up tilt to start something. Link has to space and camp. I also personally like Luigi's down smash in this matchup, it seems quite useful vs heavy character.
Luigi's fireballs stay even with boomerang I think + a bunch of other moves while virtually all of our aerials goes even with the arrows. Use the slight lag at the end of z-airs and approach. Its the main way I have approached Link and it seems to work fine. Also, this is one of the few matchups where Luigi does better on a non-vertical kill stage, mostly because Link can also kill way too quickly. Go to BF, YI, or PS1/LC. Ban FD, strike Smashville. I personally am a big fan of Frigate in this matchup. The switching of the stage forces Link to approach. Link can also down air Luigi out of down b, so be careful recovering.
Pick small stages or platforms.

I'd say this is 55 : 45 for Luigi, unless you're on a flat stage, then it's even. Link has the tools to keep Luigi at bay. He has arrows, boomerang, bombs, and that stupid z air. The first three aren't that bad, but that z air is really annoying, coupled with the fact that link has no lag from landing with it. Link's sword is also a problem since it'll beat some of Luigi's aerials if spaced properly (maybe not bair). Luigi has to fight to get close and try to start racking damage on link, while Link has to keep luigi away. With good DI, link won't be getting gimped easily, and he won't die early either.

Jab combos that need SDI to work
Jab to Cyclone
Jab to Shoruyken
Jab to Dsmash, ftilt, and Dtilt

Video references


Stages
BF

Ban
FD

 

[yoshq]

btw rob doesn't need sdi for jab upb to work, it's guaranteed. where did you get that information?

 

[Luigisama]

btw rob doesn't need sdi for jab upb to work, it's guaranteed. where did you get that information?

True, but on the third hit box of the jab(luigi's shoulder) up b might not work.

 

[Pachinkosam]

i think luigi need more easy moves and combos like mario

 

[Vinylic.]

Wat teh ****.

I thought weegee is easier than mario.

What is this blasphemy!?

 

[Luigisama]

i think luigi need more easy moves and combos like mario

Wat teh ****.

I thought weegee is easier than mario.

What is this blasphemy!?

Fighting styles described with one word.
Luigi= Troll
Mario= fancy

(h)

 

[yoshq]

True, but on the third hit box of the jab(luigi's shoulder) up b might not work.

it works as long as your upb is in range to hit him. as far as i've experienced, any part of jab allows you to upb.

 

[Luigisama]

Captain Falcon mu info

has a lot of run speed, so he can play a bait and punish game, and his U-air is a GREAT juggle tool.
At best Falcon will be an annoyance if he uses his air mobility to play "gay".

Getting Luigi above Falcon is the best option. Luigi's air game is definantly one of the best in the game and it can be extremely stressful for a Falcon to get around it if Luigi forces us above him. Uair is our best friend when going against Luigi in the air. Quick, range, best option for spacing and easily spammable.

For our ground game, don't do anything that's easily punishable. As much as I love using Raptor Boost, avoid using it in this match-up. Utilt, Jab, Grab and Shield.

I like FD. Just because I end up going there in most matches anyways. Sure Luigi has odd knockback properties, but I think FD is the easiest place to handle him.

However, Brinstar and stages like it do limit his approaches. He won't be able to ground-nado his way, and adding two more levels on which you can stand causes fireballs to be easier to evade. What this stage does add is a chance to approach vertically, but because I find falcon moving from place to place relatively fast in competitive play, green machine would have a hard time doing that so its no issue.

If we can get under luigi, then that's good. Brinstar and BF are stages to try.

in this matchup your best move is utilt, followed closely by dsmash and uair. the jab is also significantly less useful against luigi than other chars.

. What Falcon takes advantage in this MU is his bad mobility, and that he doesn't have a jab shoryuken set up on Falcon.

The big thing of this matchup is that Luigi can combo us, they can break our combos with nair, he might space with bair. We can block his tornado with jab, so he shouldn't approach with it. Our best way to deal with this matchup is to make him approach, because of his mobility and most of our moves are safe on shield, because his traction.

Up-tilt, F-tilt (angle), bair, up+ b, down-tilt will cause hindrance to Luigi, just keep him away, if he get to close, they will get a chance to **** us. His projectile is not that useful against Falcon. Just don't stay in one place for a long period of time. If we both take the air, he will usually win the fight.

Most of our moves are safe on shield so we can pressure better. This matchup is still a disadvantage for Falcon. If everyone wants, I can bring some of the Luigi players to discuss the matchup in their perspective.

Try not to use Falcon Kick. They can punish it with a shoryuken. Only use it if you are sure they can't punish it, or offstage.

Jab to dsmash, ftilt, and dtilt is the only jab combo that works and it needs SDI to work on the first hitbox of the jab.

Video references


Stages
BF

Ban
FD

 

[Luigisama]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R25luLqHeHc&list=FLjB5ITZthAFo-7YOBg-43yQ&index=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I26SNXdP7-4&feature=BFa&list=FLjB5ITZthAFo-7YOBg-43yQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Tytp4wv88&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R25luLqHeHc&feature=related

I think these videos should be added to the mk stuff. Also the fair on nado also works in the air.

 

[yoshq]

what's with this talk of sdi.... that isn't even relevant. tons of jab comboes work without sdi on almost everyone but falco/yoshi/peach. (1 frame jabs

 

[Luigisama]

what's with this talk of sdi.... that isn't even relevant. tons of jab comboes work without sdi on almost everyone but falco/yoshi/peach. (1 frame jabs

well yeah of course no one is going rely that their opponent SDI wrong then these moves work or on hitstun, but it doesn't mean that the opponent will know that a jab to up b is coming. Vice versa the opponent is shield happy and shields the up b.

You may think that these things are pointless, but after learning this I feel so stupid when I remember my tourney matches where I try to Jab to up b then I just get a fail up b then I die. By knowing this Luigi players should be more careful with trying up b or more mindful of how the jab allows Luigi to do so many things. Other than that this helps me remember what I can and can not do with jab. Or maybe I should just print out magus' jab chart for myself lol.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Speaking of that, I still don't fully understand that chart so I just go to the section of what it says I can do after a jab :/

 

[yoshq]

no my point is, it's making it more complicated than it is. it's like saying, you will get hit by mk's nado only if you don't ps with perfect timing and jab. the way i think of it is: most chars can't be jab upbed, rely on air dodge reads. there's a list of like 13 that can be, otherwise don't mention the jab upb. always jab grab, which almost always works, or if you're feeling lucky, jab dsmash... and jab combo always always works, even on 1 frame jab chars.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Yea, I'd rather just remember which characters have the guaranteed jab>upb such as Olimar or D3

 

[Luigisama]

no my point is, it's making it more complicated than it is. it's like saying, you will get hit by mk's nado only if you don't ps with perfect timing and jab. the way i think of it is: most chars can't be jab upbed, rely on air dodge reads. there's a list of like 13 that can be, otherwise don't mention the jab upb. always jab grab, which almost always works, or if you're feeling lucky, jab dsmash... and jab combo always always works, even on 1 frame jab chars.

yeah I see what you mean. up b doesn't need the jab and jab grab is more helpful since it can't be blocked.

 

[Luigisama]

Yoshq um the video references for Marth are Luigi v.s wario. Could you move those to the wario section? just to avoid confusion.

 

[yoshq]

hey, you put a lot more time into this than me. you should have the op. contact a mod about it

 

[holyv]

hey, you put a lot more time into this than me. you should have the op. contact a mod about it

No sarcasm right?

Just kidding

---------------

We don't have video references to DDD?
Where's that set with coney?

 

[Luigisama]

hey, you put a lot more time into this than me. you should have the op. contact a mod about it

really? oh shoot I'd be honored to take this over. Thank you very much.

 

[yoshq]

really? oh shoot I'd be honored to take this over. Thank you very much.

there, you have it

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Sama going places lol

 

[Luigisama]

YAY TAO IS SUPER HAPPY!!! lol thanks.

 

[Luigisama]

Anyone ok with some of the pictures of put for some characters? if you have suggestions link to one.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Ehh, I couldn't tell Yoshi was Yoshi until I read the name under the pic :/

 

[Luigisama]

Ehh, I couldn't tell Yoshi was Yoshi until I read the name under the pic :/

lol idk I saw the pic and felt like using it.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

I feel like there should be a bit clearer pic for yoshi though :/

 

[Luigisama]

I feel like there should be a bit clearer pic for yoshi though :/

your wish is my command.

 

[Luigisama]

FINISH MU THREAD WOOOO!!!. Well some are pretty vague, but if anyone else can contribute or wants to verify something post in here.

 

[FIREL]

Hooray... =P

 

[Luigisama]

Hooray... =P

hooray new pic and finished Mu before SSB4 came out. :3

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

I would finish up Luigi's Matchups but I would have to discuss it in wi-fish way not in a offline way.

 

[holyv]

Wow. We made progress, srsly.
All the other boards have like 5 or 6, instead of metaknight, that has 110:-10 against everyone, sure.
I felt glad to know that i helped a little, i`m finally doing something!

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Sama going places lol

Isn't that Yugioh card?