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- † King DeDeDe's MetaGame Discussion † -

Jupz

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
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Perth, Australia
I'll test it out soon :)

I'm also having a little trouble with dededes jab lock as he has such a slow jab (relative to others) so I can usually only get two in. He can finish it off with a dash attack :)
 

Bwa

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
40
Footstool => jab lock takes so long time, even bot can escape =x

U tilt => footstool , not tested against a human, but it seems like it works.

Full hop D air => footstool

But we have no follow after a footstool, or maybe the Nair => U tilt :(

Our jab lock sucks, because our jab sucks, it's too slow, so ddd can't walk, and it comes out too late, opponent can go away.

If you can jab lock, it's 2~4 jabs, followed by a dash attack :)
 

Jupz

Smash Master
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Perth, Australia
As said above, we can Dair some characters after a footstool, I made a list of characters it can be done to. Thanks for the help on setups though :)
 

Sensei Seibrik

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
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My Mind's Eye
I was actually doing a lil testing with ddd the other day on BF.

He can utilt someone a platform above him, if they shield near the edge, then they'll fall off, and u can hit them with two jabs of a jab lock.

If they smash DI away, u can only really hit with a DA, which isn't bad. but if they dont DI/DI toward u, you can do a side smash, which they can shield, but assuming they didnt have a perfect shield from before the utilt, if if it took two utilts to knock 'em off, the fsmash will break their shields :)


I tested this on MK btw.


oh, and the reason the fsmash works close and not far, is if its far, with the shiled they can roll away, and be out of range, if its close, rolling away only seals their fate further.
 

Jupz

Smash Master
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Messages
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Perth, Australia
Wow cool, interesting info seibrik :) Couldn't they tech as they were falling though? But most people forget I know :p
 

Gates

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
9,316
You know what I found out today?

Bthrow/Fthrow off ledge -> Dededecide

AWESOME.
 

Gates

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
9,316
Umm...it does?

If they don't cancel out of hitstun immediately you have enough time to sh an inhale off the stage and drop down to kill them and you. I did it to a Pit today in tourney and it helped me win the match.
 

AnDaLe

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
2,373
Location
IL
U could always Dthrow off ledge, and reverse swallowcide, I do it, usually they just jump towards the ledge into the swallow.

ANd, of course, snake/MK can get out of footstool>dair >.>
 

CRASHiC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
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Location
Haiti Gonna Hait
Umm...it does?

If they don't cancel out of hitstun immediately you have enough time to sh an inhale off the stage and drop down to kill them and you. I did it to a Pit today in tourney and it helped me win the match.
Oh **** really :O
Awsome sauce.
 

Gates

Banned via Warnings
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Mar 22, 2008
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Oh **** really :O
Awsome sauce.
lol

I'm gonna test it on most of the cast first. I'm sure there's a bunch of people with fast aerials who can get out of it quickly (MK, etc), characters with long range aerials who can get out of it if you take too long (Marth, etc), characters who often have projectiles in their hands that they can use to cancel momentum faster and hit you out of inhale (Diddy, etc), and also characters who are too light and sent too far (Jiggs, etc) or even characters who aren't sent far enough and can DI back to the edge to avoid it (Bowser, other Dededes). Also, the guy wasn't mashing out of it too much, so I'll have to get someone to really mash the **** out of a controller to try and break out.
 

Sensei Seibrik

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best thing i've seen on edge vs any character,

mixup between

D-throw Ftilt to catch jumps

then when they dont jump immediately

D-throw, run off fast fall Fair =kill at higher %, or just the best way to build % instead of b-throw.

the fair is GARRUNTEED if they dont jump immediately, or just falling airdodge, but who does that, that low lol
 

Jupz

Smash Master
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Jun 21, 2008
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Perth, Australia
Lol I never though about Dthrow->Ftilt to catch their jump, thanks seibrik :) But the second one wouldn't work against people like MK or Marth as you could get stagespiked, but still a great trick to catch almost everyone else once they get the hang of your Dthrow->Ftilt. Couldn't you also FF off and bair to stage spike them just to mix it up? :)
 

Gates

Banned via Warnings
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Mar 22, 2008
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On some characters I do dthrow -> dtilt to catch their jump, but it only really works if you're really close to the ledge.

And Jupz, bairing them into the stage only really works if they're at the right position.
 

Raimundo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
184
Location
Montgomery AL
Our loveable penguin has many set ups. As most should know, we are considered the best counter for snake. So i'll start with that. For approach issues, may i suggest that we start using (and abusing) a full-hopped Dair to approach and start new combos? For example, Full-hopped Dair leads to another Dair, a fastfalled jumped Fair/Bair, or a Uair. If you miss a combo attempt, grab and Bthrow. Of course, since snake's nades never suffer from SMN, we have to use waddles to stop the projectiles head on. And with the occasional Gordo and waddle doo, it can either just cancel or automatically blow up the nade. I'll stop there for Snake for now.

Next is Meta Knight. Meta Knight can abuse his B button and C-stick pretty easily. Which is why I suggest we start with double jumped dair (to lower the height of the attack and not have a laggy ending) as a approach and retreat with a Fair. From there we can at least attempt to throw a waddle/gordo and use dtilt to space ourselves. Since Meta Knight has an unstoppable recovery, I suggest actually using bair to cancel out shuttle loops and if all that fails, wait for the right opportunity to Utilt or Dsmash (although utilt is recommended because of its speed.)

I'll stop here because I havent exactly worked out a strategy for Olimar and Diddy
 

Raimundo

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 24, 2008
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184
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Montgomery AL
Best counter against Snake is Olimar. DeDeDe goes even. While Lolimar seems to **** me no matter what if they do it right.
Olimar has an advantage over Snake because of the attributes he has along with his inability to escape grabs.
 

Commander_Beef

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
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Redondo Beach, California
Best counter against Snake is Olimar. DeDeDe goes even. While Lolimar seems to **** me no matter what if they do it right.
I was going to say the same thing. Olimar can mess him up.
I agree with the matchup with us is even because Snakes are getting better and can stay away from King Dedede a lot.
 

Bwa

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
40
"may i suggest that we start using (and abusing) a full-hopped Dair to approach and start new combos?"

DDDs didn't do that before? I thought they did, not only against snake or MK, it surprises a lot of the cast, because they think we'll use an other Bair.

So, this Dair is a very good move, shield pressure and poke sometimes, combos, and FF to grab / inhale (easiest to land, but less effective than a grab, choose) after a spotdodge. :)
 

Raimundo

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 24, 2008
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"may i suggest that we start using (and abusing) a full-hopped Dair to approach and start new combos?"
Dair is already commonly used. Or at least by me it is. For Meta Knight, you need to double jump the Dair so it can hit every hit and not have a laggy ending.
 

AtotheZ

Smash Lord
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May 3, 2008
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Woodhaven, MI
Dair is already commonly used. Or at least by me it is. For Meta Knight, you need to double jump the Dair so it can hit every hit and not have a laggy ending.
You can full jump without double jump to get an auto-cancel. I like doing it on a platform so I can combo into a fast falling bair
 

Monkey Wrench

Smash Apprentice
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Nov 3, 2008
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Falcon Punching people with Jigglypuff.
Near useless bit of trivia: You can angle the waddle toss like you would some tilts or smashes. An up angled waddle flies in a noticably longer, higher arc, about 1/2 a custom stage square farther.

Also, I think it might be possible to walking cg Wario. I tried it a few times in 1/4 speed and it looks inescapable. The timing is tight though.
 

Raimundo

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You can full jump without double jump to get an auto-cancel. I like doing it on a platform so I can combo into a fast falling bair
It auto-cancels after a double jump. You will land perfectly if you do it right. And if there is a platform above you the wise thing to do is fullhop it.
 

AtotheZ

Smash Lord
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It auto-cancels after a double jump. You will land perfectly if you do it right. And if there is a platform above you the wise thing to do is fullhop it.
Try it with a full hop. it works, you can even throw in a bair if you're fast enough
 

CRASHiC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
7,267
Location
Haiti Gonna Hait
GUYS GUYS GUYS!!!

I was looking into pummel breaks, and if you space your grabs right, you can chain grab to where the opponent is just off the edge, pummel break, and they will break as if they are hitting the ground, but fall down, you then grab the edge, and some characters, LIKE SNAKE!!! have no viable recovery option you can't block from low. If you can also land a grab like this on one of the space animals, it is essentially grab to death. Don't hang to far over, or they will air break. Its ****ing sweat, going to go test more.
 
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