solecalibur
Smash Master
I stole this from Ganon Boards but it will keep the activity of Zss boards on high , this will be a fastish paced (1 week per character tops) topic. We will be summarizing what we think is the MU ratio (anyone can post this is not limited to anyone as long as you know what your saying and you've had MU exp)
We will be just summarizing the MU in 4 sentences tops (going in depth more = MU board that is a sticky)
We will be discussing in the most original order possible, the order of the tier list
Meta Knight
Snake,
Diddy Kong, <- We are here
Falco,
Ice Climbers,
Marth,
Wario
King Dedede,
Pikachu,
Olimar,
Lucario,
Mr. Game & Watch
Pit,
Toon Link,
Zero Suit (Yes we are doing this)
Kirby,
R.O.B.
Donkey Kong,
Peach,
Fox,
Luigi,
Wolf
Sheik,
Pokémon Trainer,
Sonic,
Ness,
Bowser
Lucas,
Ike,
Yoshi,
Mario,
Falcon,
Samus,
Jigglypuff
Zelda,
Link,
Ganondorf
Example :
MU's Completed
Metaknight :
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Solecalibur Wrote :
vs
Solecalibur:
MU Ratio 40:60
I still think Metaknight wins the MU regardless of the recent performance of nickriddle its just Nickriddle being nickriddle.... He can easily glide away from aireal combos rival our uair with his own uair or dair, his ground game destorys us but our dsmash does out range everything MK has on the ground (dsmash is still slow compared) and our dtilt out ranges everything MK has on the ground as well (exepct his own dtilt), MK does lack air mobility and our grab releases to regrab -) uair or dash attack can rack up some damage
Xonar:
MU ratio: 45:55
Basicly, you need to read him to get by, but his options are limited after a dsmash, so you have a guessing game that can turn out pretty bad for both characters (MK being in the air or ZSS going offstage), but we do need more reads than they do, but we are way more devestating after all. A grab is very legit, having options such as regrab, dash attack combos, uair and even fair. I don't know, for some reason I really love this MU, I've seen Mr R's Marth play against MKs and he really abuses MK's aerial mobility, while forcing them in the air, I think ZSS can do similar.
NickRiddle:
MU ratio 45:55
Our up-air beats his dair 100% of the time if spaced correctly. D-smash out-ranges every move he has on the ground. His terrible aerial mobility makes it easy to follow MK in the air, or punish his limited landing areas. If you can recover smartly and unpredictably he cannot gimp you either, which is the only thing MK 100% has against us in this MU.
Nefarious B
MU ratio 45:55
MK doesn't really punish us as hard as many other characters, allowing us to make full use of our high risk high reward moves much more in this matchup. As long as you're careful with your stage positioning and at high percents, you can build damage faster than MK and force him to approach you, where you have a much easier time setting up for a kill. His advantage comes from his ability to kill much easier than us because of his ground kill moves mostly, and his ability to break close to the ground juggles with nado.
SFP
MU ratio 45:55
The trick here is that MK's range is disjointed but still not very big, thus making several of our disjointed moves beat his. Meta Knight will require a gimp or low-range move to kill ZSS, so dancing outside of his range is strangely effective, and you should be able to live for a long time. If he takes to the air to attempt an approach, you can squelch that really easily because you play ZSS. ZSS has some of the more effective Tornado counters. If MK sticks to the ground, it is much more difficult, although down smash and down tilt are very effective here.
Zero
MU ratio 50:50
Try not to get caught in shield, as it effectively gets you a one way ticket on the pain train. So you're trying to dance around MKs range with autocancelled aerials and dtilts, trying to bait out a whiffed attack from the MK player and punish it accordingly. Be smart when you're recovering to minimise gimps. Try not to land within his range and use downB when he forces you to land into a charging smash attack. If they try to charge fsmash/dsmash when you're on the ledge, drop back > downB kick will beat it 100% of the time.
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vs
SFP
Ratio: 50:50
I suspect I will be in the minority in still insisting this match-up is relatively even, but this is one of the few instances where ZSS will be the polar opposite of her opponent character. Snake's attributes are flat-out superior (launch resistance, specifically) and his DACUS and dash attack give him a lot of speed on the ground that he can use to counter ZSS which can make things difficult, but ZSS' moveset is just better in this match-up. Like MK, Tilts and dsmash are pretty effective and her air game just makes his life difficult, especially when combined with his poor aerial mobility. Off-stage, ZSS just plain wins and should be dealing 30-50% damage each time he's off. Frankly, the only thing that stops ZSS from whooping Snake hard is how hard he hits vs. how light she is; it only takes like 5-6 hits to put ZSS in utilt range, which is fortunately pretty easy to avoid, but it's still something you have to worry about. Grenade camping is only as big a deal as ZSS chooses to make of it, and she can glide toss them, which is something we probably don't utilize enough. Catch the **** things, they don't hurt that bad unless they've been cooking.
NickRiddle
Ratio: 40:60
Snake is stupid. Tilts are annoying to get around, and will always beat every move we have, except for d-smash. When you're at kill percent, it's like Snake has this magical bubble around him, that you WILL NEVER GET INTO! U-tilt sucks for that reason. Grenades are annoying too, especially because Snake has that ****ing psychic drop bull****. It would be worse if we didn't edgeguard him, like everybody else. Teehee~
Xonar
Ratio: 50/50
Grenades are no deal, in fact, I think it improves the matchup for us if he keeps using them without getting a read. Yes, I think Snake needs a hard read to hit with a grenade while camping. That said, Snake sucks at approaching and ZSS is great at running. Crouching is really good against Snake, it allows you to avoid ftilt1, jab and grab. Crouching is a baiting tool and spacer. Overall, sideB really gets a Snake who gets predictable with Nade dropping, though as always, don't sideB too much. We can outrun him til he has to approach, then get him on that. His nades give us some more mobility too, thats cool, right?
Nefarious
45:55
This matchup is hard as balls. It really requires us to land something dumb on Snake to win IMO, we can't beat him off of normal play alone if you're around the same skill level. That being said, Snake is one of the easier characters to gay, and we have tools that are stupidly good for gaying him.
Crouching doesn't avoid ftilt 1 Xonar, did you mean crawling? That's still really good though. I agree that we can avoid Snake's nades pretty easily if we have plats to climb around on. Having to approach through nades though.. it's really hard if they know what they're doing.
I duno, I personally consider this my worst personal matchup as of now, so anything I say goes with grain of salt.
Deathfox30
50:50
Grenades are almost useless in this match up. We can also juggle snake extremely well provided we can get him in the air. If he didn't have a ridiculous disjoint on his F tilt that does like 26% each time and we weren't light, I think this would be heavily in our favor. The only thing that really makes this even is just how hard Snake hits compared to how light we are and how much trouble we have killing. I find D tilt extremely useful in this MU. Spamming D tilt on shield allows you to duck under shield grabs, but Snake's f tilt1 will beat it.
Solecalibur
40:60
Gahh this MU is annoying , you have to kill snake 3 times but he has the health of 6 stocks , unless you get a lucky gimp (down b on his UpB , his Cypher knocks you back like MK's shuttle loop) (flipstool when he is c4 recovering) , NEVER NEVER dash attack until at least 42% as your just gotta get ftilt'd has he doesn't really fall back that far , you can sheild grab all his tilts, we are essentially marth in this MU but we are much lighter in weight which puts us a disadvantage. Get those early "combos" and try and gimp him if possible, remember snakes have aura at 170 ****ing %
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We will be just summarizing the MU in 4 sentences tops (going in depth more = MU board that is a sticky)
We will be discussing in the most original order possible, the order of the tier list
Meta Knight
Snake,
Diddy Kong, <- We are here
Falco,
Ice Climbers,
Marth,
Wario
King Dedede,
Pikachu,
Olimar,
Lucario,
Mr. Game & Watch
Pit,
Toon Link,
Zero Suit (Yes we are doing this)
Kirby,
R.O.B.
Donkey Kong,
Peach,
Fox,
Luigi,
Wolf
Sheik,
Pokémon Trainer,
Sonic,
Ness,
Bowser
Lucas,
Ike,
Yoshi,
Mario,
Falcon,
Samus,
Jigglypuff
Zelda,
Link,
Ganondorf
Example :
Nickriddle wrote :
MU ratio 70 : 30
This character is pretty terrible she is easy to gimp she lacks air mobility and the objective is to just pop her in the air and make sure your recording for your combo video, watch out for her dsmash/dtilt as it is the only gimicy thing about her as it is very fast dont bother double dsmashing as inbetween the first and 2nd she will beat you to the punch
SFP wrote:
MU ratio 65:35
Zelda is easy to juggle , easy to stop her camping game (pretty bad projectile), her predictable kill moves make her a terrible character , etc
** just an example
MU's Completed
Metaknight :
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Solecalibur Wrote :
vs Solecalibur:
MU Ratio 40:60
I still think Metaknight wins the MU regardless of the recent performance of nickriddle its just Nickriddle being nickriddle.... He can easily glide away from aireal combos rival our uair with his own uair or dair, his ground game destorys us but our dsmash does out range everything MK has on the ground (dsmash is still slow compared) and our dtilt out ranges everything MK has on the ground as well (exepct his own dtilt), MK does lack air mobility and our grab releases to regrab -) uair or dash attack can rack up some damage
Xonar:
MU ratio: 45:55
Basicly, you need to read him to get by, but his options are limited after a dsmash, so you have a guessing game that can turn out pretty bad for both characters (MK being in the air or ZSS going offstage), but we do need more reads than they do, but we are way more devestating after all. A grab is very legit, having options such as regrab, dash attack combos, uair and even fair. I don't know, for some reason I really love this MU, I've seen Mr R's Marth play against MKs and he really abuses MK's aerial mobility, while forcing them in the air, I think ZSS can do similar.
NickRiddle:
MU ratio 45:55
Our up-air beats his dair 100% of the time if spaced correctly. D-smash out-ranges every move he has on the ground. His terrible aerial mobility makes it easy to follow MK in the air, or punish his limited landing areas. If you can recover smartly and unpredictably he cannot gimp you either, which is the only thing MK 100% has against us in this MU.
Nefarious B
MU ratio 45:55
MK doesn't really punish us as hard as many other characters, allowing us to make full use of our high risk high reward moves much more in this matchup. As long as you're careful with your stage positioning and at high percents, you can build damage faster than MK and force him to approach you, where you have a much easier time setting up for a kill. His advantage comes from his ability to kill much easier than us because of his ground kill moves mostly, and his ability to break close to the ground juggles with nado.
SFP
MU ratio 45:55
The trick here is that MK's range is disjointed but still not very big, thus making several of our disjointed moves beat his. Meta Knight will require a gimp or low-range move to kill ZSS, so dancing outside of his range is strangely effective, and you should be able to live for a long time. If he takes to the air to attempt an approach, you can squelch that really easily because you play ZSS. ZSS has some of the more effective Tornado counters. If MK sticks to the ground, it is much more difficult, although down smash and down tilt are very effective here.
Zero
MU ratio 50:50
Try not to get caught in shield, as it effectively gets you a one way ticket on the pain train. So you're trying to dance around MKs range with autocancelled aerials and dtilts, trying to bait out a whiffed attack from the MK player and punish it accordingly. Be smart when you're recovering to minimise gimps. Try not to land within his range and use downB when he forces you to land into a charging smash attack. If they try to charge fsmash/dsmash when you're on the ledge, drop back > downB kick will beat it 100% of the time.
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vs SFP
Ratio: 50:50
I suspect I will be in the minority in still insisting this match-up is relatively even, but this is one of the few instances where ZSS will be the polar opposite of her opponent character. Snake's attributes are flat-out superior (launch resistance, specifically) and his DACUS and dash attack give him a lot of speed on the ground that he can use to counter ZSS which can make things difficult, but ZSS' moveset is just better in this match-up. Like MK, Tilts and dsmash are pretty effective and her air game just makes his life difficult, especially when combined with his poor aerial mobility. Off-stage, ZSS just plain wins and should be dealing 30-50% damage each time he's off. Frankly, the only thing that stops ZSS from whooping Snake hard is how hard he hits vs. how light she is; it only takes like 5-6 hits to put ZSS in utilt range, which is fortunately pretty easy to avoid, but it's still something you have to worry about. Grenade camping is only as big a deal as ZSS chooses to make of it, and she can glide toss them, which is something we probably don't utilize enough. Catch the **** things, they don't hurt that bad unless they've been cooking.
NickRiddle
Ratio: 40:60
Snake is stupid. Tilts are annoying to get around, and will always beat every move we have, except for d-smash. When you're at kill percent, it's like Snake has this magical bubble around him, that you WILL NEVER GET INTO! U-tilt sucks for that reason. Grenades are annoying too, especially because Snake has that ****ing psychic drop bull****. It would be worse if we didn't edgeguard him, like everybody else. Teehee~
Xonar
Ratio: 50/50
Grenades are no deal, in fact, I think it improves the matchup for us if he keeps using them without getting a read. Yes, I think Snake needs a hard read to hit with a grenade while camping. That said, Snake sucks at approaching and ZSS is great at running. Crouching is really good against Snake, it allows you to avoid ftilt1, jab and grab. Crouching is a baiting tool and spacer. Overall, sideB really gets a Snake who gets predictable with Nade dropping, though as always, don't sideB too much. We can outrun him til he has to approach, then get him on that. His nades give us some more mobility too, thats cool, right?
Nefarious
45:55
This matchup is hard as balls. It really requires us to land something dumb on Snake to win IMO, we can't beat him off of normal play alone if you're around the same skill level. That being said, Snake is one of the easier characters to gay, and we have tools that are stupidly good for gaying him.
Crouching doesn't avoid ftilt 1 Xonar, did you mean crawling? That's still really good though. I agree that we can avoid Snake's nades pretty easily if we have plats to climb around on. Having to approach through nades though.. it's really hard if they know what they're doing.
I duno, I personally consider this my worst personal matchup as of now, so anything I say goes with grain of salt.
Deathfox30
50:50
Grenades are almost useless in this match up. We can also juggle snake extremely well provided we can get him in the air. If he didn't have a ridiculous disjoint on his F tilt that does like 26% each time and we weren't light, I think this would be heavily in our favor. The only thing that really makes this even is just how hard Snake hits compared to how light we are and how much trouble we have killing. I find D tilt extremely useful in this MU. Spamming D tilt on shield allows you to duck under shield grabs, but Snake's f tilt1 will beat it.
Solecalibur
40:60
Gahh this MU is annoying , you have to kill snake 3 times but he has the health of 6 stocks , unless you get a lucky gimp (down b on his UpB , his Cypher knocks you back like MK's shuttle loop) (flipstool when he is c4 recovering) , NEVER NEVER dash attack until at least 42% as your just gotta get ftilt'd has he doesn't really fall back that far , you can sheild grab all his tilts, we are essentially marth in this MU but we are much lighter in weight which puts us a disadvantage. Get those early "combos" and try and gimp him if possible, remember snakes have aura at 170 ****ing %
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