ZSS moveset tier list

[mountain_tiger]

I saw this topic on the Bowser boards, and I decided to do one here. Basically, this list ranks which moves are best out of ZSS' arsenal. The ones of the top should be used the most, and the ones at the bottom should never be used (or, at least, not very often). Anyway, here's the list:

Top:
Uair
Bair
Dash attack
Down B


High:
DSmash
Side B
Fair
UTilt
FThrow

Middle:
USmash
Nair
DTilt
DThrow
Up B

Low:
Jab
FTilt
Neutral B
BThrow

Bottom:
UThrow
FSmash
Dair

Of course, this is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree with it if you want.

 

[Zero]

We had this thread moonths ago.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206351

But it's pretty old, so it should be no problem starting a new one.

I think that jab should be in at least middle, it really is good for mixups and interrupts, but it must be cancelled. first jab, cancel to charge dsmash can punish people who spotdodge a lot, and jab cancelled to jab can interrupt and punish response time. :]

You shouldn't be using down b too often either, so I think you should drop it a tier, into high.

Dtilt should be moved into high, it's a speedy alternative to utilt and works as a good mixup, punishing people who spotdodge or otherwise defend against utilt.

I believe that you've completely underrated dair, when used from a very high distance (in the top blastzone) it generally autocancels with the floor, meaning a quick and generally safe recovery to the stage. It also is the host of a respectable lock on Snake and Bowser. Its multiple hitboxes can also, like utilt, catch people by surprise, but takes on a different play as when your opponenet sees a ZSS jump, they immediately think uair.

So my version is:
Top:
Uair
Bair
Dash attack

High:
DSmash
Plasma Whip
Fair
UTilt
DTilt
FThrow
Flip Jump
Grab

Middle:
Plasma Wire
Nair
Paralyser
DThrow
USmash
Dair
Jab
FTilt

Bottom:
UThrow
BThrow
FSmash

I got rid of Low tier because I didn't believe thateither of the moves there (Dair and FTilt) were really that bad as to be rated lowly. They're slightly more situational (Dair and FTilt) but definitely not bad.

EDIT: Looking back at ph00t's list from December last year, it's really interesting to see how our mindset and metagame has developed since then. I'll quote his list and do my annotations.

Everyone else was doing move tier list, so I decided I'd be unique and elitist and do move rankings, instead. They look exactly same, and serve pretty much the same purpose, but they're different, I assure you.

Top
Plasma Whip - haha, this pretty much encapsulated our metagame back then.
Dsmash
Uair
Bair

High
Flip Jump
Dtilt
Paralyzer
Fair
Dash - this is interesting, I recall the use of dash attack being discouraged due to being bad on shield. It seems strange that it's so high even without any knowledge of locks. But I guess dash to dtilt/utilt was known, so it's probably adapted from that mentality.
Jab
Plasma Wire - CAKE COMBO!
Suit Pieces
Utilt

Middle
Ledge Getup >100
Ftilt
Usmash
Nair
Dthrow
Ledge Getup <100
Jab Combo
Fallen Getups
Pummel

Low
Fthrow - Oh, how you've changed completely.
Bthrow
Dair
Fsmash

Bottom
Uthrow (remember up throws?)

Discuss and whatnot.

 

[Yankee]

Isn't this just a rehash of the rating system in the new guide?

 

[sasook]

I don't believe in these threads. It provides a false sense of "well, this move is the best so I can just abuse it and win" which isn't the case. There's a specific move for every situation, and you can't know beforehand what the best move to use in that situation is. Thats why I don't believe in these threads.

 

[noradseven]

This is my tier list:

God (SSS++++x infinity:
u-air

Top:
b-air
n-air
down B

High:
up B
dash attack
u-tilt
f-air
overB

Mid:
d-tilt
u-smash
d-smash

Low:
jab
neutral B
f(up) tilt
down air

Bottom/****:
f-tilt
f-smash

yes in that specific order too, up B is alot better than alot of ppl give it credit its a great recovery, comes out hella fast, can punish a bunch of weird ****, and is amazing as a dodge bait lol.

 

[Yankee]

I don't believe in these threads. It provides a false sense of "well, this move is the best so I can just abuse it and win" which isn't the case. There's a specific move for every situation, and you can't know beforehand what the best move to use in that situation is. Thats why I don't believe in these threads.

Nicely done Couldn't agree more. If anything it just states which moves are useful in a variety of situations and are not very situational.

 

[ph00tbag]

Every so often I wanted to rehash the whole thing and try to update it for the current metagame.

I agree mostly with Zero's list, although I think nair should be higher.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I tend to spike using the Up Special pretty often, though, I only play ZSS for fun, so... That's just me. =/

 

[Metatitan]

God:
Armor

Top:
Uair
Bair
Down B
Side B
Dash Attack

High:
Up Tilt
Neutral B
Down Tilt
Fair
Down Smash

Middle:
F Throw
D Throw
B Throw
Up B
Up Smash

Low:
F Tilt
Jab
Nair
F Smash

Ganondorf:
Dair

o.O Just my opinion. Do I win?

 

[lil cj]

Why is uair the top move?
I thought bair, dash attack, or plasma whip would be ZSS's top move

 

[ThreeSided]

I don't believe in these threads. It provides a false sense of "well, this move is the best so I can just abuse it and win" which isn't the case. There's a specific move for every situation, and you can't know beforehand what the best move to use in that situation is. Thats why I don't believe in these threads.

Uair. =P

Pretty much.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Why is uair the top move?
I thought bair, dash attack, or plasma whip would be ZSS's top move

Although the moves you listed are all very useful, Uair is better all-around. Here's why:

- Very fast
- Can combo into itself
- Out-prioritise every Dair in the game if timed correctly
- Decent damage if sweetspotted
- Sourspot leads into bair
- Can kill off the top well (especially if you chase them high up)
- Her best tool for momentum cancelling

Bair is very useful as well, but isn't quite as versatile as Uair is. Dash attack is good, but is punishable if shielded. Plasma whip is punishable due to high lag.

 

[ohaiduhg]

Although the moves you listed are all very useful, Uair is better all-around. Here's why:

- Very fast
- Can combo into itself
- Out-prioritise every Dair in the game if timed correctly
- Decent damage if sweetspotted
- Sourspot leads into bair
- Can kill off the top well (especially if you chase them high up)
- Her best tool for momentum cancelling

Bair is very useful as well, but isn't quite as versatile as Uair is. Dash attack is good, but is punishable if shielded. Plasma whip is punishable due to high lag.

Uair is a move I keep fresh 90%+ of the time as that quick "Yer in the air yer dead now" move.

Princess Zelda has the Uair that truely beats every Dair in the game. ZSS has Uair that is just quick so you can say "if you time it right and out predict."

 

[noradseven]

Uair is a move I keep fresh 90%+ of the time as that quick "Yer in the air yer dead now" move.

Princess Zelda has the Uair that truely beats every Dair in the game. ZSS has Uair that is just quick so you can say "if you time it right and out predict."

Your doing it wrong it should be so degraded it does like no damage but combos into itself everytime for a ton of damage.

Seriously spam dat ****.

 

[Metatitan]

Why do people think nair is good? Half the time when you hit it's impossible to follow up with a true combo, it has bad range and the only good thing about it is that it covers an area zss doesn't normally cover.

 

[ohaiduhg]

Your doing it wrong it should be so degraded it does like no damage but combos into itself everytime for a ton of damage.

Seriously spam dat ****.

Lol no. You can go ahead and get ****ed in the air when you get predicted.

Bair and fair are safer, and, at a distance, in the air, SideB. Not saying I never use it for damage or popping people up in the air, but it's nice to spam her good ranged moves and have a fresh Uair that pops out for the KO.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Lol no. You can go ahead and get ****ed in the air when you get predicted.

Bair and fair are safer, and, at a distance, in the air, SideB. Not saying I never use it for damage or popping people up in the air, but it's nice to spam her good ranged moves and have a fresh Uair that pops out for the KO.

What.

Are.

You.

Talking.

About?

 

[ohaiduhg]

What.

Are.

You.

Talking.

About?

Take a guess what I am talking about.

 

[sasook]

Why do people think nair is good? Half the time when you hit it's impossible to follow up with a true combo, it has bad range and the only good thing about it is that it covers an area zss doesn't normally cover.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233480


Darkwater, bair is the move you wanna keep semi-fresh. Lol

 

[ohaiduhg]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233480


Darkwater, bair is the move you wanna keep semi-fresh. Lol

I refresh it if I want to KO with it.

 

[Zero]

Lol no. You can go ahead and get ****ed in the air when you get predicted.

Bair and fair are safer, and, at a distance, in the air, SideB. Not saying I never use it for damage or popping people up in the air, but it's nice to spam her good ranged moves and have a fresh Uair that pops out for the KO.

Uair has insane priority that beats nearly all aerial moves in the game (coincidentaly, our worst matchups normally remove the use of our uair) and comes out so quickly that you can use it again after an airdodge to usually beat it out, so I have no idea what you mean when "get ***** in the air when you get predicted"

The reason uair is so **** good is because even if you get predicted there's nothing they can really do about it.

 

[James Sparrow]

i stand by my old tier list from months back when this thread was already made:

Sweet thread, I have to make my version of the list.

Top Tier
Plasma Whip
Dsmash
Paralyzer
Bair

High Tier
Suit Pieces
Uair
Ftilt
Dash Attack
Jab
Usmash
Dtilt
Utilt

Mid Tier
Dthrow
Fthrow
Pummel
Plasma Wire
Fair
Nair
Flip Jump

Bottom Tier
Uthrow
Bthrow
Dair
Fsmash

 

[sasook]

Omg JS posted.

 

[ph00tbag]

Why do people think nair is good? Half the time when you hit it's impossible to follow up with a true combo, it has bad range and the only good thing about it is that it covers an area zss doesn't normally cover.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Most of this post is outright false. It actually is pretty good for comboing if fast falled, and it has ******** range. It also has special priority, meaning it can clank with all aerials and even out prioritize some of them.

 

[noradseven]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Most of this post is outright false. It actually is pretty good for comboing if fast falled, and it has ******** range. It also has special priority, meaning it can clank with all aerials and even out prioritize some of them.

yeah, it is p. much your only aerial that safe on grounded ppl from alot of different angles, and you can do vague crossups with it, not to mention its stuffs most AAs.

 

[ohaiduhg]

yeah, it is p. much your only aerial that safe on grounded ppl from alot of different angles, and you can do vague crossups with it, not to mention its stuffs most AAs.

ZSS doesn't have an aeiral safe on grounded people, unless you are trying to hit someone with the tip of the hitbox of SideB.

 

[Zero]

Uair is safe, quick, autocancels, leads nicely into jab/tilt. It's not fantastically safe, but compared to fsmashing a shield, it's unpunishable. If they're on the ground, your focus is the get them into the air so you can uair them to crazy, whether it be via luring them into a dtilt or utilt, or crossover weak uair to bair/uair **** combo, whatever.

ZSS 101

 

[knightzy]

N-air is'nt as bad as you say,try using it+ juggleing u-airs on battlefield,it ***** if done correctlyif you cant use it properly,you will get owned,try it out one time,this can also be used with the parts,f-air and b-air,so n-air ain't useless,your ownly uselees air is d-air and it still has uses,like under delphino,My personal tier list,
Top:
Jab
D-tilt
Up-b
B-air
side-b

High:
Neutral-b
U-air
D-smash
N-air
Down-b

Mid:
Dash
U-smash
D-throw
Suit pieces
F-air

Low:
F-tilt
F-smash
U-tilt
F-throw

Bottom:
N-throw
B-throw
U-throw

my personal list based on how usefull they are to me.

 

[ohaiduhg]

Uair is safe, quick, autocancels, leads nicely into jab/tilt. It's not fantastically safe, but if they're on the ground, your focus is the get them into the air so you can uair them to crazy.

ZSS 101

If someone is on the ground, what on earth is going through your head telling you to jump that close to him or her? At least, if you are on the ground you can shield, spot dodge, or rolling dodge to another attack.

In the air,... you can Uair or Air dodge. Either way, you land where you land and get punished by, most likely, an OoS move.

Edit: Knightzy, your list is interesting tome in the sense that you have Jab as your favorite move, but DA is Middle ranked?

 

[Zero]

If I may ask..

What's n-throw?

There's something devilishly wrong with utilt in low tier and there's just something plain silly about uair in not top tier.

If someone is on the ground, what on earth is going through your head telling you to jump that close to him or her? At least, if you are on the ground you can shield, spot dodge, or rolling dodge to another attack.

In the air,... you can Uair or Air dodge. Either way, you land where you land and get punished by, most likely, an OoS move.

Edit: Knightzy, your list is interesting tome in the sense that you have Jab as your favorite move, but DA is Middle ranked?

"Buffered" uair comes out on frame 4. Why the hell not? Nonetheless, you generally shield/spotdodge/walk away and use dtilt/utilt, which is *gasp* followed by uair>uair>uair>uair/bair/upb.

Jumping over an attack and landing on the other side is generally called a crossover. Bair is a good option but is a single attack option, uair is a better option. If you're quick fingered, you could even RAR and hit a full uair rather than the weak uair, and get another 3 or 4 uairs in. Hell, you can even airdodge behind them and uair. The skys the limit with uair. It's her most broken move, we all have ridiculous applications for it, which are proven to work. Paddling against the current isn't an easy option.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

DarkWater, I am resisting the urge to flame you or report you for trolling, you are that wrong about nearly everything you post. I've never seen anyone so backward.

ZSS does have aerials that are safe on block. Back air is, in most circumstances, safe on block with good spacing, which I imagine you don't have if you didn't know that.

 

[mountain_tiger]

What's n-throw?

I think that he's referring to her pummel attack.

DarkWater, I am resisting the urge to flame you or report you for trolling, you are that wrong about nearly everything you post. I've never seen anyone so backward.

ZSS does have aerials that are safe on block. Back air is, in most circumstances, safe on block with good spacing, which I imagine you don't have if you didn't know that.

Yeah, I always thought that all her aerials except Dair were fairly safe on block, but that's just me.

Oh, and also, on my first list, I should probably have swapped Dair and FSmash. Dair gets you back to the ground quickly if you're being juggled. FSmash has nothing on it except range, and plasma whip does that better anyway.

 

[noradseven]

lol knightzy is like ph00tbag in disquise lol, I can see the logic behind it but I disagree, and yeah dash attack should only be mid or highish, its certainly not top.

I think that he's referring to her pummel attack.



Yeah, I always thought that all her aerials except Dair were fairly safe on block, but that's just me.

Oh, and also, on my first list, I should probably have swapped Dair and FSmash. Dair gets you back to the ground quickly if you're being juggled. FSmash has nothing on it except range, and plasma whip does that better anyway.

Well f-air isn't really either, but b-air and u-air are p. safe with good spacing, and n-air is safe if you fast fall it.

F-smash has a hitbox that is active for a long time, it has its uses, but even then they are more important in doubles.

Lol n-air is your high priority great hit box, nice long active frames "meaty" move, like f-smash the difference its fast. I mean it doesn't matter what the opponent does its a tricky move to punish. You can punish it, but its rarely just a simple lol every one can just sidestep it, if they side step, it you get a free u-tilt.

 

[sasook]

Darkwater, what on earth are you talking about?

 

[ohaiduhg]

I'm saying:

If you come at someone with a short ranged aerial move, while that person is grounded, you are asking for an OoS punishment.

 

[Nefarious B]

Basically learn to space, and retreat your bair. Seriously, bair and nair are great moves for fighting a grounded opponent, but you can't just throw them out without spacing and expect it to work.

I'm pretty sure bair is safe on block on just about everyone except DDD, Zard, and a few others with long ranged fast grabs, for example. This really wrecks Snake, who has bad grab range.

And SH buffered fair is pretty good against mid-taller characters on block since it tends to shield poke with the second hit for the taller ones and first hit on the mid sized ones.

 

[sasook]

I'm saying:

If you come at someone with a short ranged aerial move, while that person is grounded, you are asking for an OoS punishment.

Who says they're camping in their shield? lol

Besides, bair is safe on block if you space it correctly.

 

[ohaiduhg]

Basically learn to space, and retreat your bair. Seriously, bair and nair are great moves for fighting a grounded opponent, but you can't just throw them out without spacing and expect it to work.

I'm pretty sure bair is safe on block on just about everyone except DDD, Zard, and a few others with long ranged fast grabs, for example. This really wrecks Snake, who has bad grab range.

And SH buffered fair is pretty good against mid-taller characters on block since it tends to shield poke with the second hit for the taller ones and first hit on the mid sized ones.

My Ike is unafraid of your punishable tactics.

They don't have to shield camp to pull off a PS.

 

[sasook]

Alright, if the TOP players for ZSS are using bair to shield poke, and sourspot uairs as an approach, then please explain why it's so bad and punishable.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

My Ike is unafraid of your punishable tactics.

They don't have to shield camp to pull off a PS.

Your stupid is showing.

This is like you posting on the King Dedede boards and saying "You know, King Dedede sucks at grabbing." Or going into #Falco and saying "I feel that Falco sucks at camping." Or going into the Link xat and saying "Link really sucks at dying to gimps."

ZSS' best qualities lie in her safe, versatile, powerful aerial game. It's the entire basis of her metagame of which you apparently have no knowledge. Please stop posting and lurk for a while.